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I'm rejoicing about this thread, having just realized that I must be clairvoyant! When I first looked at the title of the thread my very first thought was "90+% of the comments are going to be about the appropriateness of the title rather than the sentiments expressed in the video clip"---and...it played out precisely as seen (so prophetically) by my mind's wisdom eye.
Ohh....you thought the same thing?....and you?....and you?...uhhm...never mind.
my wisdom eye says that it knew that you would say that
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited October 2011
Brian's right. It's context and intention. As we know, Intention is all.... I am one of those grandma types, you know... "wash yer mouth out with carbolic you filthy-minded little oik!" kinda thing, when swearing is used gratuitously, with malice, and with the intention of belittling or insulting someone.
Anybody see Stephen Fry's programe on TV? Planet Word..?
Some may not be able to watch the programme, but the correlation between swearing, and what words we use - associated with practices which are both constructive (sex) and sacrosanct (Religion) - is a way of offering the opposite side of the coin, and of expressing the powerful cathartic quality of that practice.. Swearing is also an excellent form of pain relief.
This is why when you hit your thumb with a 12lb club-hammer, your last instinct is to exclaim "Oh my golly-gosh, that smarts....!"
It has it's place. Here, for example, in context.
(And no. If you think I'm going to be enough of an imbecile to Moderate Brian, your marbles are loose. 'Sides, Brian an' me, we go back a long way. He's taught me what I know of moderating,and what he don't know ain't worth chittin' about.....)
So I wonder if we all adopt this F**k it attitude, would there be any point of moderators on the forum? I mean it wouldn't matter what anyone says, we can all just say F*** it, let it go and move on right ? or does this attitude only apply when it suits us, like to sensationalize a Buddhist concept :rolleyes:
Why do you guys say sensationalize? If anything, it makes more sense to an young, western mind.
To me, the concept is more accessible but in becoming more accessible, loses some of the deeper or more subtle meanings. Obviously you can't teach the Dhamma in 2 words. Fuck it is like a band-aid. The Dhamma teaches you how to stop getting hurt.
Why do you guys say sensationalize? If anything, it makes more sense to an young, western mind.
To me, the concept is more accessible but in becoming more accessible, loses some of the deeper or more subtle meanings. Obviously you can't teach the Dhamma in 2 words. Fuck it is like a band-aid. The Dhamma teaches you how to stop getting hurt.
Well put!
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
So I wonder if we all adopt this F**k it attitude, would there be any point of moderators on the forum? I mean it wouldn't matter what anyone says, we can all just say F*** it, let it go and move on right ? or does this attitude only apply when it suits us, like to sensationalize a Buddhist concept :rolleyes:
You're missing the point. Intention and circumstance dictate what is appropriate. Nothing in Buddhism is forbidden. Moderators are here to gague what is appropriate. We neither forbid nor censor. we regulate the intention.
Why do you guys say sensationalize? If anything, it makes more sense to an young, western mind.
To me, the concept is more accessible but in becoming more accessible, loses some of the deeper or more subtle meanings. Obviously you can't teach the Dhamma in 2 words. Fuck it is like a band-aid. The Dhamma teaches you how to stop getting hurt.
sensationalize
"To cast and present in a manner intended to arouse strong interest, especially through inclusion of exaggerated or lurid details"
I would argue that using the words "F**K it" as a way in which we can describe the Buddhist concept of impermanence and letting go, as being just a tad sensationalist. So I guess thats why I used the word sensationalize.
I see no relation whatsoever between saying "F**K it" and following any part of the Buddhas teachings. However I do see how being mindful of what we say and how it can affect other people, as a part of the Buddhas teachings. So maybe we can think of that before we start saying that using the phrase "F**K it" is the "ultimate spiritual way" ( I have not read the book by John c parkin, and I wont be wasting my time doing so either)
People can say that it is all about intention also, which is fine. But I think regardless of the intention or what you personally think about such a phrase, when said in public people can be offended as it just does not sound nice. I know I do not like to hear people swearing when I am out shopping or whatever, and I certainly do not want to hear children saying things like this, and yes I know they are just words, but the Dharma is just words, its what people take from the words that matters, and I'm afraid with regard to swear words, to me an air of disrespect is attached to them, especially when used in public.
I'm sorry, but "F... it" is a verbal command form. It is a verbal command addressed to anyone within earshot (or in this case, eyeshot) to simultaneously copulate with and to disdain whatever "it" is. It is the equivalent of the verbal command to "rape it."
The verbal command to engage in such practice of contempt combined with sexual exploitation is the verbal command to establish a SEVERE physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual attachment the equivalent of an anchor around one's neck, not any letting go or release of anything.
It is a command incompatible with the teachings of Buddhism.
So, you believe that fuck only means 'to have sex with?'
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
I'm sorry, but "F... it" is a verbal command form. It is a verbal command addressed to anyone within earshot (or in this case, eyeshot) to simultaneously copulate with and to disdain whatever "it" is. It is the equivalent of the verbal command to "rape it."
That's an utter pile of crock.
The word 'Fuck' is a noun, verb, adverb, adjective, command and interjection. Therefore, it may be taken in several different ways depending on context.
AND Intention. And it largely depends on how the observer also interprets it and receives it. If you are offended, it is you who takes offence, in this particular case.
The verbal command to engage in such practice of contempt combined with sexual exploitation is the verbal command to establish a SEVERE physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual attachment the equivalent of an anchor around one's neck, not any letting go or release of anything.
It is a command incompatible with the teachings of Buddhism.
No Buddhist would miss that point.
If this is how you see it, then so be it. Personally, I think things can be taken a little too seriously....
In regards to your comment on my post, that analogy does not encompass my Buddhist beliefs. Afterall, it is an analogy and as such, was used for illustrative purposes, not definitive.
The word 'Fuck' is a noun, verb, adverb, adjective, command and interjection. Therefore, it may be taken in several different ways depending on context.
Exactly, and in this particular case, the word is being used as a transitive verb, in a command form, for an international audience which includes non-native English speakers who will interpret it exactly as a transitive verb, in command form, irregardless of any personal intention you may have assigned to it.
Do I regard it as offensive? I regard it as an international embarrassment to Buddhism.
When I first began reading Buddha's words (or at least what has been written as Buddha's words), I thought how beautiful the words were...at once both simple and complex. I thought that it was so obvious why Buddha's words have echoed so resoundingly throughout the centuries. And now I am told Buddha's words = "fuck it".
And why exactly would one Buddhist want to intentionally offend another Buddhist?
I'm beginning to think that this thread was meant to prove a point: that so many of us are so high-strung that two simple words would get us all riled-up, but it shouldn't be that way - but rather: we should just "fuck it."
"many human beings are attached to name and form, and this attachment to name and form is the cause of nearly all suffering. If we want to cure human beings of this attachment, then we must apply name-and-form medicine. We must begin by showing that names and forms are not real and permanent" ~Smart Zen Master Dude
I'm sorry, but "F... it" is a verbal command form. It is a verbal command addressed to anyone within earshot (or in this case, eyeshot) to simultaneously copulate with and to disdain whatever "it" is. It is the equivalent of the verbal command to "rape it."
The verbal command to engage in such practice of contempt combined with sexual exploitation is the verbal command to establish a SEVERE physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual attachment the equivalent of an anchor around one's neck, not any letting go or release of anything.
It is a command incompatible with the teachings of Buddhism.
No Buddhist would miss that point.
You can't be serious. Really, please tell me you're joking.
What happened to Buddhists on the internet? Why doesn't anyone have a sense of humor? Life is funny, friends. Relax, chill the hell out, and smile for a bit. STOP TAKING EVERYTHING ON THE INTERNET SO SERIOUSLY.
I'm beginning to think that this thread was meant to prove a point: that so many of us are so high-strung that two simple words would get us all riled-up, but it shouldn't be that way - but rather: we should just "fuck it."
"many human beings are attached to name and form, and this attachment to name and form is the cause of nearly all suffering. If we want to cure human beings of this attachment, then we must apply name-and-form medicine. We must begin by showing that names and forms are not real and permanent" ~Smart Zen Master Dude
Cunda Kammaraputta Sutta: To Cunda the Silversmith
"And how is one made impure in four ways by verbal action? There is the case where a certain person engages in false speech. When he has been called to a town meeting, a group meeting, a gathering of his relatives, his guild, or of the royalty [i.e., a royal court proceeding], if he is asked as a witness, 'Come & tell, good man, what you know': If he doesn't know, he says, 'I know.' If he does know, he says, 'I don't know.' If he hasn't seen, he says, 'I have seen.' If he has seen, he says, 'I haven't seen.' Thus he consciously tells lies for his own sake, for the sake of another, or for the sake of a certain reward. He engages in divisive speech. What he has heard here he tells there to break those people apart from these people here. What he has heard there he tells here to break these people apart from those people there. Thus breaking apart those who are united and stirring up strife between those who have broken apart, he loves factionalism, delights in factionalism, enjoys factionalism, speaks things that create factionalism. He engages in abusive speech. He speaks words that are harsh, cutting, bitter to others, abusive of others, provoking anger and destroying concentration. He engages in idle chatter. He speaks out of season, speaks what isn't factual, what isn't in accordance with the goal, the Dhamma, & the Vinaya, words that are not worth treasuring. This is how one is made impure in four ways by verbal action." ~Smartest Dude of them all Buddha
Cunda Kammaraputta Sutta: To Cunda the Silversmith
"And how is one made impure in four ways by verbal action? There is the case where a certain person engages in false speech. When he has been called to a town meeting, a group meeting, a gathering of his relatives, his guild, or of the royalty [i.e., a royal court proceeding], if he is asked as a witness, 'Come & tell, good man, what you know': If he doesn't know, he says, 'I know.' If he does know, he says, 'I don't know.' If he hasn't seen, he says, 'I have seen.' If he has seen, he says, 'I haven't seen.' Thus he consciously tells lies for his own sake, for the sake of another, or for the sake of a certain reward. He engages in divisive speech. What he has heard here he tells there to break those people apart from these people here. What he has heard there he tells here to break these people apart from those people there. Thus breaking apart those who are united and stirring up strife between those who have broken apart, he loves factionalism, delights in factionalism, enjoys factionalism, speaks things that create factionalism. He engages in abusive speech. He speaks words that are harsh, cutting, bitter to others, abusive of others, provoking anger and destroying concentration. He engages in idle chatter. He speaks out of season, speaks what isn't factual, what isn't in accordance with the goal, the Dhamma, & the Vinaya, words that are not worth treasuring. This is how one is made impure in four ways by verbal action." ~Smartest Dude of them all Buddha
Oddly I didn't see anything abut the word "fuck" in there.
In regards to your comment on my post, that analogy does not encompass my Buddhist beliefs. Afterall, it is an analogy and as such, was used for illustrative purposes, not definitive.
What happened to Buddhists on the internet? Why doesn't anyone have a sense of humor? Life is funny, friends. Relax, chill the hell out, and smile for a bit. STOP TAKING EVERYTHING ON THE INTERNET SO SERIOUSLY.
Considering the fact that NotAGangsta was rudely and mercilessly censored at every turn and banned over the issue of his use of inner-city urban-American jive dialect because it was not proper English, the double standard and hypocrisy evidenced here is both obvious and extremely disheartening.
What happened to Buddhists on the internet? Why doesn't anyone have a sense of humor? Life is funny, friends. Relax, chill the hell out, and smile for a bit. STOP TAKING EVERYTHING ON THE INTERNET SO SERIOUSLY.
Considering the fact that NotAGangsta was rudely and mercilessly censored at every turn and banned over the issue of his use of inner-city urban-American jive dialect because it was not proper English, the double standard and hypocrisy evidenced here is both obvious and extremely disheartening.
From what I saw it seem that NotAGangsta was banned for his use of racial slurs, as well as general trollish behavior.
What happened to Buddhists on the internet? Why doesn't anyone have a sense of humor? Life is funny, friends. Relax, chill the hell out, and smile for a bit. STOP TAKING EVERYTHING ON THE INTERNET SO SERIOUSLY.
Considering the fact that NotAGangsta was rudely and mercilessly censored at every turn and banned over the issue of his use of inner-city urban-American jive dialect because it was not proper English, the double standard and hypocrisy evidenced here is both obvious and extremely disheartening.
From what I saw it seem that NotAGangsta was banned for his use of racial slurs, as well as general trollish behavior.
So what? Why couldn't everyone just say "fuck it"?
BTW NotAGangsta was banned because he was warned repeatedly by admins/mods and still kept on doing the same thing. It's expected that people will screw up every once in a while, but also expected that when they're told they're over-the-line that they'll check themselves.
BTW NotAGangsta was banned because he was warned repeatedly by admins/mods and still kept on doing the same thing. It's expected that people will screw up every once in a while, but also expected that when they're told they're over-the-line that they'll check themselves.
I would say that line you're using is plenty twisted.
Not even sure I should ask, but what do you mean? Maybe I was being too blunt/frank, and for that I apologize, but put it into whatever words you want and the meaning's the same. People make mistakes. We warn them when they do. They adjust, or they end up gone when they continue the inappropriate action(s).
NotAGangsta was banned for continued use of language deemed "inappropriate" by moderators who are now advocating the usage of inappropriate language in the name of Buddhism and telling everyone to lighten up about this issue. The double standard here is disheartening, to say the least.
Don't know who's advocating anything, but it's good that the burden doesn't fall on the members. I know Brian's been in this thread and if you aren't aware he's one of the Big Boys, so it's a good idea to listen (and accept). Admins trump Moderators, they're the ones who created and host this forum for our usage and what they say goes, and that's all that needs said. Malcontent doesn't look pretty either by the way.
With that I humbly take my leave of this thread, which I don't really care to be in anyway! CHILL people. Seriously.
Comments
Ohh....you thought the same thing?....and you?....and you?...uhhm...never mind.
I am one of those grandma types, you know... "wash yer mouth out with carbolic you filthy-minded little oik!" kinda thing, when swearing is used gratuitously, with malice, and with the intention of belittling or insulting someone.
Anybody see Stephen Fry's programe on TV? Planet Word..?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01614w9
Some may not be able to watch the programme, but the correlation between swearing, and what words we use - associated with practices which are both constructive (sex) and sacrosanct (Religion) - is a way of offering the opposite side of the coin, and of expressing the powerful cathartic quality of that practice..
Swearing is also an excellent form of pain relief.
This is why when you hit your thumb with a 12lb club-hammer, your last instinct is to exclaim "Oh my golly-gosh, that smarts....!"
It has it's place. Here, for example, in context.
(And no. If you think I'm going to be enough of an imbecile to Moderate Brian, your marbles are loose. 'Sides, Brian an' me, we go back a long way.
He's taught me what I know of moderating,and what he don't know ain't worth chittin' about.....)
I mean it wouldn't matter what anyone says, we can all just say F*** it, let it go and move on right ?
or does this attitude only apply when it suits us, like to sensationalize a Buddhist concept :rolleyes:
To me, the concept is more accessible but in becoming more accessible, loses some of the deeper or more subtle meanings. Obviously you can't teach the Dhamma in 2 words. Fuck it is like a band-aid. The Dhamma teaches you how to stop getting hurt.
Intention and circumstance dictate what is appropriate.
Nothing in Buddhism is forbidden.
Moderators are here to gague what is appropriate. We neither forbid nor censor.
we regulate the intention.
sensationalize
"To cast and present in a manner intended to arouse strong interest, especially through inclusion of exaggerated or lurid details"
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sensationalize
I would argue that using the words "F**K it" as a way in which we can describe the Buddhist concept of impermanence and letting go, as being just a tad sensationalist. So I guess thats why I used the word sensationalize.
I see no relation whatsoever between saying "F**K it" and following any part of the Buddhas teachings. However I do see how being mindful of what we say and how it can affect other people, as a part of the Buddhas teachings. So maybe we can think of that before we start saying that using the phrase "F**K it" is the "ultimate spiritual way" ( I have not read the book by John c parkin, and I wont be wasting my time doing so either)
People can say that it is all about intention also, which is fine. But I think regardless of the intention or what you personally think about such a phrase, when said in public people can be offended as it just does not sound nice. I know I do not like to hear people swearing when I am out shopping or whatever, and I certainly do not want to hear children saying things like this, and yes I know they are just words, but the Dharma is just words, its what people take from the words that matters, and I'm afraid with regard to swear words, to me an air of disrespect is attached to them, especially when used in public.
It is a verbal command addressed to anyone within earshot
(or in this case, eyeshot)
to simultaneously copulate with and to disdain
whatever "it" is.
It is the equivalent of the verbal command to "rape it."
The verbal command to engage in such practice of contempt combined with sexual exploitation is the verbal command to establish a SEVERE physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual attachment the equivalent of an anchor around one's neck, not any letting go or release of anything.
It is a command incompatible with the teachings of Buddhism.
No Buddhist would miss that point.
So, you believe that fuck only means 'to have sex with?'
The word 'Fuck' is a noun, verb, adverb, adjective, command and interjection. Therefore, it may be taken in several different ways depending on context.
AND Intention.
And it largely depends on how the observer also interprets it and receives it.
If you are offended, it is you who takes offence, in this particular case. If this is how you see it, then so be it.
Personally, I think things can be taken a little too seriously....
Jim: Man, I have all these bills to pay, but my job keeps pulling money from my check. What can I do? There is nothing I can do!
Bob: *shrug* Fuck it.
Jim: *unzips pants*
Bob: HEY, HEY, what are you doing?!
Jim: But you told me to fu-...
Bob: Are you insane?
In regards to your comment on my post, that analogy does not encompass my Buddhist beliefs. Afterall, it is an analogy and as such, was used for illustrative purposes, not definitive.
Regards
Do I regard it as offensive?
I regard it as an international embarrassment to Buddhism.
Yes a very mindful reply :thumbdown: This post kinda highlights my point exactly.
And why exactly would one Buddhist want to intentionally offend another Buddhist?
"And how is one made impure in four ways by verbal action? There is the case where a certain person engages in false speech. When he has been called to a town meeting, a group meeting, a gathering of his relatives, his guild, or of the royalty [i.e., a royal court proceeding], if he is asked as a witness, 'Come & tell, good man, what you know': If he doesn't know, he says, 'I know.' If he does know, he says, 'I don't know.' If he hasn't seen, he says, 'I have seen.' If he has seen, he says, 'I haven't seen.' Thus he consciously tells lies for his own sake, for the sake of another, or for the sake of a certain reward. He engages in divisive speech. What he has heard here he tells there to break those people apart from these people here. What he has heard there he tells here to break these people apart from those people there. Thus breaking apart those who are united and stirring up strife between those who have broken apart, he loves factionalism, delights in factionalism, enjoys factionalism, speaks things that create factionalism. He engages in abusive speech. He speaks words that are harsh, cutting, bitter to others, abusive of others, provoking anger and destroying concentration. He engages in idle chatter. He speaks out of season, speaks what isn't factual, what isn't in accordance with the goal, the Dhamma, & the Vinaya, words that are not worth treasuring. This is how one is made impure in four ways by verbal action." ~Smartest Dude of them all Buddha
_/\_
Abu
To some people that word could be considered the above.
In regard to the whole argument about the "bad" word......
Oh Fuck it. Never mind.
LOL!
I wonder what has inspired such activism from your brain!
P.S Notice how I managed to do this without the use of a swear word :rolleyes:
by moderators who are now advocating the usage of inappropriate language in the name of Buddhism and telling everyone to lighten up about this issue.
The double standard here is disheartening, to say the least.
With that I humbly take my leave of this thread, which I don't really care to be in anyway!
CHILL people. Seriously.