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Is Vegetarianism a necessity in Buddhism?
Hi!
Please share your insight on this topic if you wish. I used to be a vegetarian because I didn't agree with how animals are abused and mistreated in the factory farming industry. Under strict instructions from my doctor due to some health issues, I was to begin eating meat once or twice a week. Is it a necessity of practicing buddhism to eat a vegetarian diet? Or can mindful and thankful eating be enough?
Please share your insight on this topic if you wish. I used to be a vegetarian because I didn't agree with how animals are abused and mistreated in the factory farming industry. Under strict instructions from my doctor due to some health issues, I was to begin eating meat once or twice a week. Is it a necessity of practicing buddhism to eat a vegetarian diet? Or can mindful and thankful eating be enough?
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I hope I don't need to advise you not to choose a tradition (if at all) on this basis....
Although there ARE plenty of good reasons to be vegetarian (or to eat less meat) including: health, ethics, and the environment.
second, its technically not a necessity in Buddhism... but I would invite you to spend some time playing with an animal and then watch that animal be killed in person. in most people this rouses extreme compassion for animals. all of the theravadin monks i know of are vegetarians, out of compassion for animals.
Love is not the way, people always kill out of love *smile*
Actually if one thinks that he goes a safer way being a Vegetarian could lead much more to additional defilement as the feeling of being rid of harming other.
Even eating vegetarian still means not abstaining from taking what is not given freely given. So its better to work on the desire for pleasant food and of cause not harming more as really necessary. Seek for pleasure is what kills much more than any other ideas. *smile*
It's not a NECESSITY.
Would you suffer if you would not have the endless desire for pleasant feelings? So for example of the worry what do eat, so that my desire fits to be a "good man", or the worry what would be good for my health but also tasty. *smile*
Sensual desire is something hard to escape from. It's no different from eating meat and getting a piece of meat stuck in your teeth. Boy, does it hurt! Even before you finish the meal, you have to take a toothpick to get it out. Once it's out you feel relieved for a while and you don't want to eat meat anymore. But when more meat comes your way, another piece gets stuck in your teeth. You take it out again and you feel relieved again. That's all there is to sensual desire: nothing more than a piece of meat stuck in your teeth. You feel agitated and unsettled, and then you get it out of your system in whatever the way. You don't understand what it's all about. It's crazy.
from
"In Simple Terms: 108 Dhamma Similes", by Ajahn Chah, translated from the Thai by Thanissaro Bhikkhu. Access to Insight, 4 April 2011, http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai/chah/insimpleterms.html . Retrieved on 20 October 2011.
One could make the sample also for with a vegetable filament *smile*
Maybe my doctor is ignorant on this, but I think what she was trying to do was help me. I'm awaiting my diagnosis, they think it's Inflammatory Bowel disease and I'm not absorbing my nutrients from food like I should be, and am incredibly malnourished. Maybe it is that I am ignorant on how to replace my B vitamins and protein without eating meat and I need to look down that avenue myself. My first step when I get my diagnosis is to see a holistic nutritionist. Maybe that will help.
Melissa
Just a few recent notes about what's been transpiring in Tibet; it's definitely undergoing a radical change at the monastic level, at least.
Tha Dalai Lama only eats meat because he was diagnosed with anemia while young and told he would live a longer healthier life if he ate meat.
I believe that most or all of the largest Gelugpa monasteries are now vegetarian.
The 17th Karmapa is vegetarian, I believe and has ordered no meat to be served in affiliated Kagyu monasteries:
"# No meat is to be prepared in the kitchen of any Kagyu Monastery or Centre.
# No one is to be involved in the business of buying and selling meat – for all of his students this practice must stop.
# There is to be no killing of animals on Kagyu premises.
# Karmapa is aware of monks in robes going to buy meat and does not want to see this ever again."
BTW, I haven't cooked meat at home in 7 years or so (and I cook nearly every day) but I still do eat meat on weekends. I generally am vegetarian during the week. I worked myself up from one day per week. This may be a good way to start for those who eat meat and want to at least make some effort. It's relatively painless doing it this way and one can rejoice with each day added.
That's not to say you can't be Buddhist if you eat meat, but vegetarianism and Buddhism are highly compatible practices.
@Dreadgurl, I hope you are able to find a diet that suits your moral views and medical needs!
So I'm eating meat. Not lots, but I'm eating it. I may someday stop completely (which I'd like to do), but for now I'm eating it. You shouldn't stop eating meat if there's an underlying health reason *to* eat it.
situational things may come up... lack of access to vegetarian food, etc etc. but im speaking physiologically, from a medical standpoint.
"One should not consume human flesh. Whoever should do so: a grave offense. And one should not consume meat without having reflected on it (on what it is). Whoever should do so: an offense of wrong doing." — Mv.VI.23.9
"One should not consume elephant flesh ... horse flesh ... dog flesh ... snake flesh ... lion flesh ... tiger flesh ... leopard flesh ... bear flesh ... hyena flesh. Whoever should do so: an offense of wrong doing." — Mv.VI.23.10-15
"One should not knowingly consume meat killed on purpose (for a bhikkhu). Whoever should consume it: an offense of wrong doing. I allow fish and meat that is pure in three respects: One has not seen, heard, or suspected (that it was killed on purpose for a bhikkhu)." — Mv.VI.31.14
"I allow all fruit that is non-staple." — Mv.VI.38
"A mango is not to be consumed. Whoever should consume one: an offense of wrong doing." — Cv.V.5.1 (This rule was later repealed by the rules at Cv.V.5.2)
"I allow mango peels." ... "I allow that fruit made allowable for contemplatives in any of five ways be consumed: damaged by fire, damaged by a knife, damaged by a fingernail, seedless, or with the seeds removed. I allow that fruit made allowable for contemplatives in any of these five ways be consumed." — Cv.V.5.2
"I allow that fruit that has not been made allowable be consumed if it is without seeds, or if the seeds are discharged." — Mv.VI.21
"Although green gram, even when digested, sprouts, I allow that green gram be consumed as much as you like (§)." — Mv.VI.16.2
"I allow conjey and honey-lumps." — Mv.VI.24.7
"When invited to a certain place, one should not consume the eating-conjey of another (donor). Whoever should consume it is to be dealt with in accordance with the rule (Pc 33)." — Mv.VI.25.7
"I allow the five products of a cow: milk, curds, buttermilk, butter, ghee." — Mv.VI.34.21
"I allow eight juice drinks: mango juice drink, rose apple juice drink, seed-banana juice drink, seedless banana juice drink, madhu (Bassia pierrei? Bassia latifolia?) juice drink, grape juice drink, water-lily root juice drink, phārusaka (Bouea burmanica (Anacardiaceae)?) juice drink. I allow all fruit juice except for the juice of grain. I allow all leaf-juice except for the juice of cooked (§) vegetables. I allow all flower juice except for the juice of liquorice flowers. I allow fresh sugar cane juice." — Mv.VI.35.6
"I allow all vegetables and all non-staple foods made with flour." — Mv.VI.36.8
"Garlic should not be eaten. Whoever should eat it: an offense of wrong doing." — Cv.V.34.1
"I allow that garlic be eaten in the event of illness." — Cv.V.34.2
---------
there are many useful things if one is interested to understand the message behind.
"Buddhist Monastic Code II: Chapter 4 (on Food)", by Thanissaro Bhikkhu. Access to Insight, 16 June 2011, http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/bmc2/bmc2.ch04.html . Retrieved on 21 October 2011.
so according to this passage:
"One should not knowingly consume meat killed on purpose (for a bhikkhu). Whoever should consume it: an offense of wrong doing. I allow fish and meat that is pure in three respects: One has not seen, heard, or suspected (that it was killed on purpose for a bhikkhu)." — Mv.VI.31.14
this quote, to me, seems like it should make most modern buddhists into vegetarians. wouldnt modern commercial meat be 'killed on purpose for..' you, as the consumer? it may not have your name on it, but it is killed for you as the consuming public?
I am a vegetarian, and confess, it's down to the fact that the protein gives me excessive cramp attacks in my leg.
And I do mean, C-R-A-M-P.
Debilitating, agonising, crippling, tear-producing, sleep-depriving cramp.
It's a long story, but I suffered a back injury, and my sciatic nerve was partially paralysed. My left leg doesn't function to its full ability.
I gave up meat for a while, (rather like a Lent thing) and I realised, during this time, that my cramps disappeared completely.
And red meat is worst, followed by poultry, and then fish.
Fish, I can eat, but if I eat it on 2 consecutive days, I get cramp the second night....
I am not sufficiently medically experienced to be able to say why this should be. Perhaps @Mountains can provide a clue. But I advised my Doctor (who has been prescribing me Quinine Sulphate 200mg against the cramp) that this had happened, and they found it interesting, but could also not say why that would be. So I guess most Doctors are not dieticians or nutritionists.
I miss meat - but not as much as I thought I would.
And the less I eat meat, the less I want it.
I'm aware the new Karmapa is introducing the idea of vegetarianism, that's great. I wasn't speaking of monastics when I said Tibetans love meat. All the Tibetans I know in the US love meat. According to reports by friends who've lived in India, most lay Tibetans in India eat meat. And certainly, in the harsh conditions of the Tibetan plateau, where it's difficult to grow vegetables, eating meat was a necessity. Mongols (also Buddhists) all eat meat. Tibetan monks visiting Taiwan have been photographed eating meat, in spite of the ubiquitous delicious vegetarian restaurants. And there are some funny stories about Tibetan lamas attending conferences in the US and being served vegetarian food. They say they managed to get through the meal by "using your mind to enjoy the food", meaning, they had to make a big effort to psych themselves to get the food down.
Let's not give the OP a hard time for needing to eat meat. It's only twice a week, after all. She's following her conscience the other 5 days out of the week, with, I assume, her doc's approval. I think this is a good compromise under the circumstances, a good Middle Way. Let's cut the OP some slack. Her heart's in the right place, and it sounds like her doc is flexible enough to take her preference and commitment into consideration and work out a compromise.
Note: a dietician and a nutritionist are NOT the same thing. Anyone can set up as a 'nutritionist' without any qualifications or experience whatsoever.
Have a great weekend everyone.
Peace
please dont let this/these posts be mistaken for giving OP or anyone a hard time... i am talking strictly about the facts of human nutrition, not the ethical/karmic. implications of eating meat
There are several videos available exposing modern killing factories and the flesh industry's negative effect on our enviornment. We need to educate ourselves and not stick our head in the sand regarding this very very important issue.
Namaste
For example, we pass judgement on the person driving down the road in the Hummer thinking "Wow, is that really necessary?? it's terrible for the environment!", we judge that person, but what we don't know is that they were in an accident in a small car in which their child was paralyzed and how they choose a larger vehicle to protect their family and safety... Like I said all things are not black and white. We all judge in this manner, but have to catch ourselves in the action and detach from it. Otherwise what is the point of your spiritual practice??? If it puts expectations or demands on people other than yourself??? Just something to think about.
Physicians get very little to no training in nutrition, depending on when they finished their schooling. Physicians generally are not considered a reliable source for nutrition information in a clinical setting, only a dietitian is. I'm nearly finished with a BS in dietetics & I assure you there is nothing in meat essential to humans that is not available sources that do not require harming the animal (milk, eggs, etc). This information is factual and verifiable.
a few good examples:
http://www.organicpastures.com/index.html
http://vitalfarms.com/
http://www.strausfamilycreamery.com/
There is a story that the "Buddha" died from eating tainted pork!
We often have the thought of king, ruler, god in our mind and that the world would be better if it looks the way I like.
Buddhist practice is about focusing on your intention, and if your intention is to eat pleasant food and much food, that it would be even if you eat vegetable cause more suffering as necessary.
Its not about finding a way to keep the seek of pleasant feelings alive while thinking to act good. That is not possible and is the main different to all others ideas of gaining real peace.
Judge your intention and watch your feelings *smile*
I think the OP has received a good general overview, and can probably take it form here.
We have countless threads on vegetarianism descending to depths of what can only sometimes be called a Moral pissing-contest.
Really, it's all been said before.
Many thanks to all who contributed, and thanks to the OP for giving us another shot at it.....