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from the encounters and relatives I have, the devote ones are the most likely to be intolerant, because the bible specifically asks christians to endlessly pester others into conversion of faith, the whole 'reaching out to the lost lambs' part. I know some very nice christians who accept I do not follow their way of life, and then I have met others who refuse to admit that their belief is not someone elses, that gays should all be killed and that I cant say I dont follow their faith without them becoming so horrifically offended they refuse to speak to me.
from the encounters and relatives I have, the devote ones are the most likely to be intolerant, because the bible specifically asks christians to endlessly pester others into conversion of faith, the whole 'reaching out to the lost lambs' part. I know some very nice christians who accept I do not follow their way of life, and then I have met others who refuse to admit that their belief is not someone elses, that gays should all be killed and that I cant say I dont follow their faith without them becoming so horrifically offended they refuse to speak to me.
Just keep in mind that there are other religions in the world who are even harder on gays.
I follow a pretty simple rule when it comes to who I decide into my world as far as any abrahamic monotheist (Jew, Christian, and Muslim).
No one that begins with "you are going to hell for a,b and c "
We don't know that hell is really a place since no one has been there. They say this in ignorance because if such a real place exists, they would regret saying such things. If that horrible place existed I would not even want hitler, Castro, Nero, fill in the blank...in that place.
Can't learn from the ignorant or spiritual blind.
Ah, oh...any person who is not atleast half as curious as you are about their faith...curious nature and openness is welcomed with equal amounts of respect and kindness.
No person should try to force conversion on another. Each follow their own path. Religion is not obligatory.
Um, I guess these are my big ones. Why do you think I love humanist and agnostic Buddhist a little more than dogmatic monotheists?
Hope I didn't ramble.
Can I just add something too. If God exist and he knows what religious assholes have done to the gay, lesbian, transgender, bisexual, big curious community...he would not be pleased. And these bullies might be surprised who is and who isn't in hell.
As far as I know, you don't pray with your private parts.
I'm sorry...I have to watch my gay friend cry each year during lent. Not fun. Sorry I rambled.
Wow I really love that story. I think when we see good nature thru people orientation we should see the bigger picture. I myself was mormon and grew into christian schools. I think we can all realize a better picture if we come together. Its just love and understanding rly.
from the encounters and relatives I have, the devote ones are the most likely to be intolerant, because the bible specifically asks christians to endlessly pester others into conversion of faith, the whole 'reaching out to the lost lambs' part. I know some very nice christians who accept I do not follow their way of life, and then I have met others who refuse to admit that their belief is not someone elses, that gays should all be killed and that I cant say I dont follow their faith without them becoming so horrifically offended they refuse to speak to me.
Just keep in mind that there are other religions in the world who are even harder on gays.
You can be harsher than killing someone and damning them to hellfire of eternity? This is why I moved away from unforgiving religions.
Nicholas Cage summed it up in ghost rider: second chances are important.
Just keep in mind that there are other religions in the world who are even harder on gays.
You can be harsher than killing someone and damning them to hellfire of eternity? This is why I moved away from unforgiving religions.
Nicholas Cage summed it up in ghost rider: second chances are important.
Ah, Christians murdering gay people is a relatively rare thing.
read: "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
It used to be that way, not so much now, but there will always be ignorant people in the world. It doesnt matter wether you are of that faith or any other, I still find people like this to be in need of realizing their own ignorance is disgusting.
Until recently I lived across the street from a church that welcomed gay people. On rare occasion some Catholics would organize a protest outside. Other then those few, nobody cared.
I tried the same thing, rebelling that it. Waste of time and energy, and only gives parents migraines. I hated going to Church. Eventually, I just did while silently disbelieving. A lot easier that way.
When I was old enough to drive, I drove to church, picked up a newsletter as "proof" of attendance and spent an hour at the park reading.
Im not Christian, but my Christian friends who want to change to Buddhism, they always complain to me about the Christianity so much. It is hatred. I think they must deal with their hatred. They expect me to hate Christianity too because just Im Buddhist? Why? I cant understand their odd thinking. Well I have no hatred for Christianity. I have read their Bible and it contains some good teachings. If they want to change to Buddhism, they should first accept the Christianity inside them, and then calmly consider Buddhism.
Im not Christian, but my Christian friends who want to change to Buddhism, they always complain to me about the Christianity so much. It is hatred. I think they must deal with their hatred. They expect me to hate Christianity too because just Im Buddhist? Why? I cant understand their odd thinking. Well I have no hatred for Christianity. I have read their Bible and it contains some good teachings. If they want to change to Buddhism, they should first accept the Christianity inside them, and then calmly consider Buddhism.
"Christianity inside them?" I don't think religious beliefs are inherent to a person.
But I think you've got a bit of a predicament on your hands; your social circle is pressuring/expecting you to share the same emotion (hatred) as them towards Christianity, but you really don't feel the same way. It's hard to be around friends when they're like that, but in my experience, things eventually mellow out.
I can't believe that in 2012 we still have to endure all those nasty things when we tell people that we don't belong to their religion. Many times, telling to your family that you decided to embrace a different religion is almost like telling your parents that you are gay. This shouldn't be the situation in the 21st century. I guess it will take some time for people to really change.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited March 2012
I have to say I never had this problem.. and I'm half-Italian, so RCatholicism is a big thing in my family.... Most of the people who have given accounts of religious discrimination on this forum have been American. As modern America as we know it, was founded by the Religious Pilgrim Fathers (i would add there had to be some mothers in there as well....) a theistic religion seems to be the one underpinning religious opinion throughout the country.... and it would appear some parts of the USA are more tolerant and open than others.....
and it would appear some parts of the USA are more tolerant and open than others.....
Yes, I'd like to reiterate that. The horror-story threads don't represent the whole of the US, just a part. People only post about Christianity when it's a problem. We haven't heard from all the people who have chosen Buddhism without encountering any negative reactions. It's sort of like the media--only the bad news gets reported.
And I'd also like to reiterate that this thread is a breath of fresh air, after some of the strange ones that have sprouted up recently.
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personDon't believe everything you thinkThe liminal spaceVeteran
One of the most favorite people I know is a Christian.
Since Jody_Dad resurrected this thread, I'll add my two cents. There are tolerant and intolerant people within all groups, religions, sects, etc. These people tend to follow their own moral compass rather than the one that has been passed down through the millenia. Christianity has loosened its morals and intolerances because society has evolving morality, and an archaic moral code/system must adapt or be cast aside and forgotten to history.
What I'm trying to say is that you will find tolerant people everywhere, but that does not make their belief tolerant. Chances are they have conveniently forgotten all those verses in their holy text that promote intolerance because they have higher/more-relevant morals than the ones found in a nearly 2000 year old textbook. Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, and various other religions DO have a bone to pick with me because they are used to justify hatred, bigotry, and various atrocities inflicted to populations throughout the centuries. It's difficult for me to ascertain whether these people would just admit to being the self-righteous heathens they are or whether they would merely find another platform to protect themselves on. I do recognize some benefits of religion, but the same benefits can be reaped from any community.
One of the reasons I began my own personal spiritual journey was to find a belief system that coincided in harmony with mine. Buddhism is, without a doubt, the closest to being similar to my core values. However, once I realized that I had begun using my values, virtues, and such as the measuring stick, I realized that I already had a belief system. It doesn't have a name or face or followers. It's just me being the best person for society and the individual people I meet.
In essence, I stopped putting myself in a cage. I use my own judgment (however flawed it may be, but what is perfection?) and create my own purpose. I live by the law, and I strive to make all people feel that they belong in society and have equal opportunities within that society.
I believe Buddhism exists because it will help in the near future to unit all faiths.
This is speculation on my part: The end result of the union of all faiths would probably be so generalized that it would be featureless. Since it needs to appease all people in all ways, it would probably not amount to much in terms of substance. At which point we could probably abandon organized religion/faith altogether. But there are good things that organized communities do well like care for the poor and needy, participate in community outreach efforts, raise awareness for societal issues, and others.
People naturally seek those of similar faith/belief. Even if you were to bring all faiths together, the people within this New Religion would seek out those with stronger similarities because that's just what we tend to do. That's why there are cliques in high school, social groups, and even political parties. So you would have ways in dissecting this New Religion that people will find. As humans, we seem to just love to find ways to put things into smaller and smaller subgroups by labeling and such.
Christianity in the modern West is about as benign and tolerant as they come. And I'm speaking as a non-Christian. I'd much prefer a society of modern Christians to just about any other. They might think I'm going to hell and disapprove of my lifestyle, but that's about the extent of their interference into my life.
I would disagree with this from an Australian perspective and we are quite liberal and secular generally.
Christian churches are very vocal and try to influence public policy on things like:
Gay marriage Religion in public schools Ethics classes in schools Abortion drugs Scientific advancements. eg: stem cell research
Unfortunately i notice they are less vocal, although they similarly disagree, on things like compassionate treatment of refugees.
But, don't all people in a real democracy have a right -- either in a group or individually -- to try to influence public policy?
They have a right to express their opinions and advocacy but trying to push their religious beliefs on others so they conform to their views of the world is wrong. If they were so confident in their beliefs they would be changing minds not forcing compliance down peoples throats. Denying a group of people their right to marriage for example based on some archaic reading of a fictional book is not good public policy in a secular country. imo of course.
Now this i believe is different to universal principles such as love, compassion and respect for life which buddhists tend to live with much less hypocricy.
But, don't all people in a real democracy have a right -- either in a group or individually -- to try to influence public policy?
They have a right to express their opinions and advocacy but trying to push their religious beliefs on others so they conform to their views of the world is wrong. If they were so confident in their beliefs they would be changing minds not forcing compliance down peoples throats. Denying a group of people their right to marriage for example based on some archaic reading of a fictional book is not good public policy in a secular country. imo of course.
Now this i believe is different to universal principles such as love, compassion and respect for life which buddhists tend to live with much less hypocricy.
I agree...somewhat.
But on the last paragraph...well, try living in Thailand and see if you still think Buddhists operate based on love, compassion, and respect for life...and be sure to see how the Buddhist-oriented government treats the Muslims in the 3 Muslim provinces in the south of Thailand (for example, when they locked dozens of young Muslim men in tractor trailer trucks in temperatures well over 100...and many died).
^^ real tragedy anytime the teachings are ignored like that but i put that down to people doing ill not an interpretation of the buddhas teaching .....you are obviously much more well versed than i am on situation there though
whereas in some christian traditions they justify their bigotry through their direct interpretation of their bible and actually believe they are doing gods work
As a former Buddhist and now an Orthodox Christian I do not believe that all religions are equal and provide the same results, but I do believe that my relationship with my neighbor defines my relationship with God, and that is my struggle.
As a former Buddhist and now an Orthodox Christian I do not believe that all religions are equal and provide the same results, but I do believe that my relationship with my neighbor defines my relationship with God, and that is my struggle.
The aim of an Orthodox Christian is Theosis, meaning union with God through the grace of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the illumination or enlightenment of God.
What is the aim or purpose if you will of Buddhism?
So it seems, on the surface, that different religions have different aims; therefore the results should be different. But underneath the dogma and different terminology, I suspect there are similarities.
I was about to re-post that very same comment, and you beat me to it. :-)
I agree, there are similar truths to be found for sure.
Though the world around us may be collapsing it is our interior disposition that determines whether we experience it as suffering.
Several years ago I had asked my Buddhist priest a question about karma. He was from Japan, and did not speak English very well, but he told me “Maybe change your feelings, Maybe change your karma”
My Orthodox patron saint, St Silouan the Athonite, taught his disciples to “Keep thy mind in hell, and despair not”.
At its most basic the main practices would include the following, and they of course can be elaborated on extensively. A moral and ethical lifestyle is assumed.
It really depends on where you live for sure I think. I live in a small town in Indiana and it's seriously church on every corner and 6 of said churches are Pentecostals. Even being different here is not the best things. It has gotten better in the past 3 years because we've had a sudden increase in Wiccan. But still... it's not something you want to announce to someone unless you want people in your face telling you that you are going to hell.
However, what's interesting? If you travel 35 minutes South? You are in a College town and there are 5 different Buddhist Temples.
So it's not just the area of the country you live in, but your direct community too
@Tosh This link is to 4 part lecture series called Christ the Eternal Tao. Very informative. Part 3 is specifically about watchfulness and prayer. You will see many similarities with your own faith.
Comments
No one that begins with "you are going to hell for a,b and c "
We don't know that hell is really a place since no one has been there. They say this in ignorance because if such a real place exists, they would regret saying such things. If that horrible place existed I would not even want hitler, Castro, Nero, fill in the blank...in that place.
Can't learn from the ignorant or spiritual blind.
Ah, oh...any person who is not atleast half as curious as you are about their faith...curious nature and openness is welcomed with equal amounts of respect and kindness.
No person should try to force conversion on another. Each follow their own path. Religion is not obligatory.
Um, I guess these are my big ones. Why do you think I love humanist and agnostic Buddhist a little more than dogmatic monotheists?
Hope I didn't ramble.
Can I just add something too. If God exist and he knows what religious assholes have done to the gay, lesbian, transgender, bisexual, big curious community...he would not be pleased. And these bullies might be surprised who is and who isn't in hell.
As far as I know, you don't pray with your private parts.
I'm sorry...I have to watch my gay friend cry each year during lent. Not fun. Sorry I rambled.
Nicholas Cage summed it up in ghost rider: second chances are important.
read: "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
It used to be that way, not so much now, but there will always be ignorant people in the world. It doesnt matter wether you are of that faith or any other, I still find people like this to be in need of realizing their own ignorance is disgusting.
When I was old enough to drive, I drove to church, picked up a newsletter as "proof" of attendance and spent an hour at the park reading.
But I think you've got a bit of a predicament on your hands; your social circle is pressuring/expecting you to share the same emotion (hatred) as them towards Christianity, but you really don't feel the same way. It's hard to be around friends when they're like that, but in my experience, things eventually mellow out.
Most of the people who have given accounts of religious discrimination on this forum have been American. As modern America as we know it, was founded by the Religious Pilgrim Fathers (i would add there had to be some mothers in there as well....) a theistic religion seems to be the one underpinning religious opinion throughout the country.... and it would appear some parts of the USA are more tolerant and open than others.....
And I'd also like to reiterate that this thread is a breath of fresh air, after some of the strange ones that have sprouted up recently.
What I'm trying to say is that you will find tolerant people everywhere, but that does not make their belief tolerant. Chances are they have conveniently forgotten all those verses in their holy text that promote intolerance because they have higher/more-relevant morals than the ones found in a nearly 2000 year old textbook. Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, and various other religions DO have a bone to pick with me because they are used to justify hatred, bigotry, and various atrocities inflicted to populations throughout the centuries. It's difficult for me to ascertain whether these people would just admit to being the self-righteous heathens they are or whether they would merely find another platform to protect themselves on. I do recognize some benefits of religion, but the same benefits can be reaped from any community.
One of the reasons I began my own personal spiritual journey was to find a belief system that coincided in harmony with mine. Buddhism is, without a doubt, the closest to being similar to my core values. However, once I realized that I had begun using my values, virtues, and such as the measuring stick, I realized that I already had a belief system. It doesn't have a name or face or followers. It's just me being the best person for society and the individual people I meet.
In essence, I stopped putting myself in a cage. I use my own judgment (however flawed it may be, but what is perfection?) and create my own purpose. I live by the law, and I strive to make all people feel that they belong in society and have equal opportunities within that society.
I believe Buddhism exists because it will help in the near future to unit all faiths.
The end result of the union of all faiths would probably be so generalized that it would be featureless. Since it needs to appease all people in all ways, it would probably not amount to much in terms of substance. At which point we could probably abandon organized religion/faith altogether. But there are good things that organized communities do well like care for the poor and needy, participate in community outreach efforts, raise awareness for societal issues, and others.
People naturally seek those of similar faith/belief. Even if you were to bring all faiths together, the people within this New Religion would seek out those with stronger similarities because that's just what we tend to do. That's why there are cliques in high school, social groups, and even political parties. So you would have ways in dissecting this New Religion that people will find. As humans, we seem to just love to find ways to put things into smaller and smaller subgroups by labeling and such.
Christian churches are very vocal and try to influence public policy on things like:
Gay marriage
Religion in public schools
Ethics classes in schools
Abortion drugs
Scientific advancements. eg: stem cell research
Unfortunately i notice they are less vocal, although they similarly disagree, on things like compassionate treatment of refugees.
Now this i believe is different to universal principles such as love, compassion and respect for life which buddhists tend to live with much less hypocricy.
But on the last paragraph...well, try living in Thailand and see if you still think Buddhists operate based on love, compassion, and respect for life...and be sure to see how the Buddhist-oriented government treats the Muslims in the 3 Muslim provinces in the south of Thailand (for example, when they locked dozens of young Muslim men in tractor trailer trucks in temperatures well over 100...and many died).
whereas in some christian traditions they justify their bigotry through their direct interpretation of their bible and actually believe they are doing gods work
http://redpillpress.com/retail/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=88&zenid=veqnmj3k7qp9a881nultgo7kr3
pretty cool.
What is the aim or purpose if you will of Buddhism?
So it seems, on the surface, that different religions have different aims; therefore the results should be different. But underneath the dogma and different terminology, I suspect there are similarities.
1. Prayer
2. Meditation
3. The practise of compassion for others.
4. An Ethical lifestyle.
Can you describe to me a typical Orthodox Christian practise?
I agree, there are similar truths to be found for sure.
Though the world around us may be collapsing it is our interior disposition that determines whether we experience it as suffering.
Several years ago I had asked my Buddhist priest a question about karma. He was from Japan, and did not speak English very well, but he told me “Maybe change your feelings, Maybe change your karma”
My Orthodox patron saint, St Silouan the Athonite, taught his disciples to “Keep thy mind in hell, and despair not”.
At its most basic the main practices would include the following, and they of course can be elaborated on extensively. A moral and ethical lifestyle is assumed.
1. Watchfulness
2. Prayer
3. Confession
4. Communion
5. Giving
However, what's interesting? If you travel 35 minutes South? You are in a College town and there are 5 different Buddhist Temples.
So it's not just the area of the country you live in, but your direct community too
ancientfaith.com/specials/christ_the_eternal_tao