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Atheist interested in Buddhism.
DaftChris
Spiritually conflicted. Not of this world. Veteran
Before I ask my questions, here is a little back story.
I was born in the Bible Belt and, accordingly, was raised conservative Southern Baptist. When I was little, I loved going to church, but only because we got treats and colored while watching movies in Sunday school. When I stopped going to Sunday school, my interest in church severely dropped, but I still went along with it, because it was what "good people did". Once I actually paid attention in church, it amazed me how inefficient and cruel God was and I fell from Christianity in High School and became an Atheist.
Recently, I have been going on a spiritual and philosophical journey and I've come across Buddhism. it has peaked my interest and I have a few questions.
1.) I'm 100% pro-science and try to let rationality and logic help guide me through life. Buddhism will allow that, but there is one thing I have a little trouble with: reincarnation. How can I believe, or at least have faith, in it?
2.) People have told me that Buddhism is about how life is nothing but suffering. I don't listen to people like that, but how much merit is in that statement?
3.) Does Buddhism teach to limit or abolish worldly desires like sex?
4.) Does Buddhism teach against things like wearing jewelry or dyeing your hair?
5.) I'm a homosexual male. Does Buddhism condemn homosexuality?
6.) Buddhism is mostly non-theistic. What is the concept of the afterlife (if there is one)?
7.) I don't like the Dalai Lama...at all. I know he is a Tibetan Buddhist, but is it the general consensus that he is to be respected?
8.) How do I (or should I) come out to my parents as a Buddhist if I convert (they still think I'm a Christian)?
I was born in the Bible Belt and, accordingly, was raised conservative Southern Baptist. When I was little, I loved going to church, but only because we got treats and colored while watching movies in Sunday school. When I stopped going to Sunday school, my interest in church severely dropped, but I still went along with it, because it was what "good people did". Once I actually paid attention in church, it amazed me how inefficient and cruel God was and I fell from Christianity in High School and became an Atheist.
Recently, I have been going on a spiritual and philosophical journey and I've come across Buddhism. it has peaked my interest and I have a few questions.
1.) I'm 100% pro-science and try to let rationality and logic help guide me through life. Buddhism will allow that, but there is one thing I have a little trouble with: reincarnation. How can I believe, or at least have faith, in it?
2.) People have told me that Buddhism is about how life is nothing but suffering. I don't listen to people like that, but how much merit is in that statement?
3.) Does Buddhism teach to limit or abolish worldly desires like sex?
4.) Does Buddhism teach against things like wearing jewelry or dyeing your hair?
5.) I'm a homosexual male. Does Buddhism condemn homosexuality?
6.) Buddhism is mostly non-theistic. What is the concept of the afterlife (if there is one)?
7.) I don't like the Dalai Lama...at all. I know he is a Tibetan Buddhist, but is it the general consensus that he is to be respected?
8.) How do I (or should I) come out to my parents as a Buddhist if I convert (they still think I'm a Christian)?
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Comments
7.) I don't like the Dalai Lama...at all. I know he is a Tibetan Buddhist, but is it the general consensus that he is to be respected?
1. http://vimeo.com/m/30797257
I'm agnostic on the reincarnation stance. Doesn't matter either way, focus on what you change and deal with and that is this current life.
2. Travel a bit. Engage with others. Then you'll start to see what the buddha met by suffering.
3. If you're a monk you renounce the world to cultivate a spiritual path. If you're a lay person you learn to live with such desires in moderation so that they don't consume you. Desires are healthy. We all desire happiness and we don't desire to suffer. Using this motivation we practice to end our suffering.
4. Again dependa on what sect of buddhism and whether or not you're a lay practioner or monk. Generally the rule is to not harm others or yourself. And if you can do that why helping others then you're golden.
5. No.
6. Actually the buddha acknowledged the existence of gods. But he disn't care much about them because the problem of suffering still existed. The gods were silent. I have no idea what the buddhist after life is like. I'm assuming the mindstream chooses another vessel based on karma. But we can never know for sure.
7. You can respect whoever you want. I'm not sure why you don't like him but he does teach excellent things, which can benefit anyone. But not all buddhists respect him.
8. You don't have to tell anyone anything about being a buddhist. Its an individual practice. Thus your parents can happily believe that you're a christian.
Welcome to the forums. I hope you find peace of mind. :$
2.) I think the way it's been stated to you is probably too negative. Read http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/fourtruths.html
3.) Read the 5 Precepts: http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/precepts.html
5.) In my opinion no, Again, in the 5 Precepts, it talks about "sexual misconduct". You have to decide what is "sexual misconduct".
6.) Keep in mind that many Buddhists do believe in God, although perhaps most don't. As far as I know, Buddha did not specifically address the concept of a God. But also keep in mind, just because something is in Buddhist scriptures, you are still a thinking person.
7.) Okay, so you don't like him. He is just one Buddhist in just one sect. But do you know why you don't like him? Something to think about. And remember, you can not like a person, but still respect some of what they teach.
8.) I was a school principal, and while my affiliation with Buddhism was no secret, neither did I talk about it...unless someone specifically asked. Personally, it sounds as if you are in a delicate situation. My own advice would be to tread carefully...and especially avoid telling your parents in a manner that is really designed to "get back at them".
2. This is due to a misunderstanding of Buddhism. Buddhism is actually about getting to joy.
3. Mainly, Buddhism for non-monastics is about doing no harm.
4. Not really, not for lay practitioners. The teachings about non-attachment to material things, to ego, etc. can be interpreted that way, they can be taken as far as you want, but generally it's about being mindful of addictions and ego-driven behavior/acquisitions.
5. Eeesh. See Jeffrey's answer.
6. Back to #1, rebirth.
7. Truth be told, he's a controversial figure for some. You're not required to like him.
8. I agree with Taiyaki. You don't have to tell anyone. Nor should you lie to your parents in order to maintain a Christian facade, though. If push comes to shove, and a moment arises in which the truth must come out in order to avoid deceit, you break it to them gently, being mindful of their sensibilities, and compassionate toward them. Gently, you break it to them with kindness. The Buddha said that if you must say words that are not agreeable to others, you speak truthfully, with kindness and at the appropriate time.
Welcome, and good luck. Kind of a cool name, DaftChris.
2.) Life involves suffering, which is self caused. Buddhism is about achieving happiness/contentment.
3.) Personal choice. If you decide to be a monk, then yes.
4.) See 3.
5.) See 3. Nothing I've ever read actually condemns it, as homosexual sex would probably have the same value as heterosexual sex.
6.) See 1. It's a very complex topic. I just believe "you" die when "you" die.
7.) Is it because he was a bad ruler when he was a kid? I mean, you don't have to like the guy, but I don't see why you wouldn't.
8.) Well, you don't have to, but I find the idea personally liberating. I bluntly told my parents and they were upset at first, but eventually came to terms with it.
7.) Okay, so you don't like him. He is just one Buddhist in just one sect. But do you know why you don't like him? Something to think about. And remember, you can not like a person, but still respect some of what they teach.
I don't like him, because of what would happen to Tibet if he, or the Lama class for that matter, would return to power. I'm not saying that communist China is the savior of Tibet (no one in their right mind would think that), but they did introduce electricity, running water and secular education to the entire country of China. If the Lama class were to return, then Tibet would return to the medieval way of existence as they did before China took over (methods of torture, far more rampant poverty, etc.)
I guess Tibet just can't win?
Sorry if the question is too personal, but have you come out to your parents about being homosexual? Buddhism probably wouldn't cause much of a fuss in the bible belt, of all places. Unlucky place to grow up.
As for everything else, I'm definitely no expert, but I think the majority of Buddhist beliefs are that you believe in what feels right. There is no set doctrine telling you what is right and what is wrong. There is only the opinion of various Buddhist leaders over the years. Some were against homosexuality, others embraced it. Some were against gathering worldly possessions, a lot of the modern teachers seem to be finding ways for Buddhism to adapt into a modern, Western life. Making it easier to live the normal life that you love, with the added benefit of Buddhism making it just that much better.
That's different than living a life of free will with an understanding of basic Buddhist principles.
1.) I mentioned "communist" simply because that's the current government in China; and historically, the government of China hasn't been exactly BFF's with Tibet.
2.) Yes, I'm out to my Parents. Mom accepted right away and it took Dad a few years. My mom is no longer a Southern Baptist (she's non-denominational and does sign language at a Methodist church) and my dad still is. Buddhism probably would cause a bit of a ruckus. Christians in the south tend to be very ignorant of non-Abrahamic religions. These are the people who say that Catholics are going to hell, even though Catholics were amongst the first established Christians.
The truth of Buddhism does not come from books. It does not come from agreement with others. Buddhism is not some applause-o-meter religion. The truth of Buddhism comes from the determined and constant and courageous and patient effort of those who have chosen to FIND OUT if it actually works. Belief and hope are OK as a starting point, but if belief and hope were the upshot of Buddhism ... well, it would just be another penny-ante religion.
Take your time. The word "suffering" is sometimes more accurately portrayed as "unsatisfactoriness" -- the sense that things are never quite complete or at peace. Even a non-Buddhist knows what that's like.
There is no need to convince anyone else of Buddhism. There is only a willingness to find out for yourself.
Best wishes.
Amen to that, op...me from Texas. I'm Muslim and practice Buddhism. Buddhism fits well as a philosophy with any religion because it is a Daly practice. I get along better with agnostics, atheists and Buddhist than Bible and quran thumpers...I guess they skimmed over that compassion bit in their books.
Welcome.. glad to have you. Oh, and any God that condemns you for questioning and seeking is not a God, so you need not worry.
2) This creates the question of when has anyone been permanently happy ? Buddhist teaching is about recognising the way things are opposed to how we assume they are so we destroy our illusions and are thus able to make a concerted effort to free ourselves from all temporary and future suffering.
3) Buddhism teaches you to use your life meaningfully it doesnt mean you cannot enjoy worldly things but because it is a path of renunciation more emphisis is placed upon developing our mind rather then engrossing it in distracting activity. For the ordained they have certain rules they follow.
4) No, unless your ordained.
5) No. Buddha taught ethical sexual conduct as one of his teachings on morality at no point did he mention anything to do with homosexuality, Ethical sexual conduct is as applicable to hetrosexuals as it is to homosexuals.
6) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontheistic_religions see Buddhism and particularly Samsara.
7) Many of us disagree with the Dalai lama, all living beings are to be respected regardless is they have a fancy title or not.
8) Dont untill you have the fundementals set such as ethical discipline, That way it is much easier to avoid scorn.
But these are the list I am going by:
metta - kindness to
karuna - relating to pain as I said
mudita - joy of
upekka - equanimity
They are called the aprimanas in Tibetan buddhism and they are believed to be immeasurable. So you just do them. Practice makes perfect.
"Reincarnation" implies the existence of a unchanging entity going from body to body. The common Buddhist view is that no such entity exists. There is birth of a new moment, a new day, a new week. It is said a new lifetime. I can speak to moment to moment birth, and week to week, but do not have firsthand knowledge of life to life. That's just being honest.
2.) People have told me that Buddhism is about how life is nothing but suffering. I don't listen to people like that, but how much merit is in that statement?
Acknowledging and investigating suffering is the the beginning, and from there you can know non-suffering.
3.) Does Buddhism teach to limit or abolish worldly desires like sex?
Depends on the kind of Buddhism
4.) Does Buddhism teach against things like wearing jewelry or dyeing your hair?
Only for monastics I think, but maybe somewhere it's like that for lay people , I've never encountered it.
5.) I'm a homosexual male. Does Buddhism condemn homosexuality?
That could be a cultural thing in some places, but I have gay Buddhist friends. It is a total non-issue for every Buddhist I know, period.
6.) Buddhism is mostly non-theistic. What is the concept of the afterlife (if there is one)?
It depends, mostly I've been taught not to speculate and just practice now. Thats the point.
7.) I don't like the Dalai Lama...at all. I know he is a Tibetan Buddhist, but is it the general consensus that he is to be respected?
He is one person, respected by those who follow his tradition. Liking him or not liking him is a personal thing. I don't give it much thought.
8.) How do I (or should I) come out to my parents as a Buddhist if I convert (they still think I'm a Christian)?
Thats a tough one, because the last thing you need is to get grief for meditating. I would suggest not “converting” and just doing the frog in the pot of water thing... meditate a bit, then a bit more.
But hey.. these are just one view and experience, Buddhism is not a monolith
I'll try to answer your question about the focus on suffering, I hope I'm explaining things more or less correctly.
Buddhism deals with suffering, and with the end of suffering. Buddhism states that there is suffering (even in situations where we might believe there is none, there will be some stress at a subtle level), but it also gives handles to reduce our suffering, and even overcome it completely. It's not necessary to believe this last part, if you study buddhist ideas about the causes of suffering, and practice with them, this can be very rewarding and beneficial. BTW, in buddhism there is a lot of appreciation for joy and positive emotions.
You can find ideas in buddhism about reincarnation, sexuality, jewelry and afterlife, but it's always in the context of the problem of suffering. So suffering is central, but these other topics are not, and in the end, it's always up to you to decide how you will live your life.
Best regards,
Maarten
Buddhism is the polar opposite of suffering. It teaches you how to find the way OUT of suffering through wisdom (freedom from all delusion) rather than the attainment of some blissful state or union with the Ultimate. No one can escape things like unhappiness, dissatisfaction, & suffering. If people only expect happiness in life, they will be disappointed. Things are not always the way we want them to be, but we can learn how to understand them. The aim of Buddhist practice is to develop a reflective mind in order to let go of delusions. “Practice” means finding and staying on your Buddhist path. It’s not like practicing music to perform at a later date, but like practicing your scales everyday no matter what your level of skill is.
Buddhism does not abolish sex. However, sexual misconduct like rape & adultery are forbidden.
I have never heard anything about Buddhism being against expressing your sense of style (hair color, etc). I've also never heard of Buddhism being against Homosexuality. That's more of a Christian delusional.
And who are we to decide what they should and should not ask? the Buddha encouraged an enquiring nature. he exhorted those who wished to listen,. to not take anything for granted.... And how is one supposed to make a choice if one doesn't have facts, arguments and different options at one's disposal?
People should make choices by gathering much information and doing investigations by themselves. Not by hatred and attacking something. Or wanting a leader to approve or disapprove something.
She probably knows, because I heard she asked by sister one time about Buddhism. If she ever asks what I believe, I'd tell her. She never has, probably because she prefers a "don't ask, don't tell" policy and I honor that because it makes her happy.
You sound young. I hope Buddhism can help you in your search for meaning and purpose in your life. If it turns out that it's not for you, there's no wasted experience possible. You will have learned something about yourself, at least. Welcome.
Oh, and no you don't have to join the Tibetan Liberation Front to be a Buddhist. That's a messy political situation with a history that goes back a thousand years.
I think its not so much about having a negative reaction towards Christianity being an issue. My view is that its more about applying the Christian world view that us in the west have been brought up under, even if not part of a practicing Christian family, to our understanding of Buddhism.
When Buddhists talk of hell we unconciously carry our views of Christian hell and eternal damnation because we are bad or aren't good enough. Or karma from a previous life being a cause for a suffering in this life, we overlay our subtle Christian views about punishment for being bad onto it.
We see Buddhism from a Christian point of view and don't really accept it fully from its own side.
1.) You do not need to believe in rebirth or have faith in it. The only faith you need is that the method of Buddhism (which is called the Noble Eightfold Path) will produce good results if you follow it. Once it starts producing those results, faith is no longer required. On a side note, a belief in rebirth only seems irrational if you are convinced that a mind is produced by matter, whereas matter exists independently of any mind. This is a belief many science-minded people hold, simply because science isn't quite advanced enough yet to understand the true relationship between mind and matter. You don't have to worry about any of this, though, if all you want is a better life. This is what Buddhism is really about, not speculation about the distant past or distant future (such as the birth of the universe or an afterlife).
2.) This is how I would explain it to a newcomer: As ordinary people, we experience varying degrees of happiness and unhappiness. Suffering is what we call those experiences that are relatively unpleasant compared to our baseline. Buddhism is a path to an incredibly delicious inner peace. If you follow the path, you will experience that inner peace, and it will change your view of everything to such a dramatic extent that you will agree with the statement that all life is suffering. Since you are into science, let me put it into numbers. Let's say right now your experiences vary on a scale from 1 to 10. 1 would be torture and murder and that kind of stuff, 3 a dental treatment, 5 a walk in the park, 7 success at something that is important to you, 10 maybe an exceptionally pleasant sexual encounter. These are just examples of what how we may expect the average person to rate their experiences. Your personal priorities of happiness may be different. Given this scale, you would probably say everything below 5 is suffering, but the range from 7 to 10 has nothing to do with suffering. This is understandable. However, if you follow Buddhism and find that incredibly peaceful place, you will probably rate it about a 20. From that new perspective, it will become clear to you that even a 10 is really still characterized by a certain degree of unsatisfactoriness or suffering, which it cannot be separated from. You may now object and say, "Well, that just means Buddhism shows you a more delicious life that makes everything else pale in comparison," and to an extent you are correct, but that inner peace I'm talking about is not really life at all. It is the extinction (Sanskrit: "Nirvana") of the processes we generally associate with life. We're getting too deep now. These are insights that you can only understand when you have them directly, which will happen as a result of practicing Buddhism. Words are simply inadequate to relate this to someone who has not yet seen it.
3.) Buddhism teaches that desire is one of the main reasons why we are unhappy. The way to happiness is not to try to satisfy all your desires, because those attempts will always just lead to more desire. The way to happiness is to better understand your desires. Once you understand them exactly as they are, they will disappear on their own. To answer even more directly: Buddhism teaches that desire makes us unhappy, but Buddhism acknowledges the fact that you cannot simply "abolish" desire, not in yourself, and certainly not in other people. Letting go of desire is something that will happen naturally, at your own pace, as you cultivate your mind according to the specific methods of practice the Buddha taught. If eventually you want to become a Buddhist monk, then yes, at that point in time, you would have to agree to become celibate (for as long as you are a monk), but that is a fairly advanced level of practice. Generally desire is seen as an affliction, not a reason to punish you. When you do something "wrong" (or in Buddhist terms, "unskillful"), a Buddhist will understand that unskillful behavior of yours in a similar way as he would understand a tumor growing inside your body. It's something that ideally you wouldn't have, but it's not something for which we should punish you.
4.) If you want to become a monk, you are supposed to not wear garlands or perfumes or touch precious metals etc., but as a Buddhist who is not a monk (a "layperson"), you are free to wear jewelry and have any hairstyle. The ultimate goal of Buddhism is attainable by monks/nuns as well as laypeople.
5.) No. Buddhism is a very direct and immediate teaching about how to improve your life. Aspects of life such as sexual orientation, hair color, etc. are not relevant to this teaching, so Buddhists will leave you alone about them.
6.) It's not important, but Buddhism teaches this: Just as your life changes from moment to moment in accordance with your intentions and your actions, past and present, the same thing will happen when you die: You will either be reborn as a human, an animal, or a being in hell, or in heaven. There are other realms also, but the basic idea is always the same: When you do good deeds with good intentions, your life will tend to get better (this very life and also any potential future lives). Heaven and hell are not eternal. Beings can spend trillions of years in heaven or in hell, but eventually their existence changes, and they may be born again as animals or human beings. The ultimate goal of Buddhism is to let go of all hatred, desire, and delusion. When that happens, a being is totally at peace and will not be born again. When the body dies, the being ceases to exist. If you are at all worried about this possibility, be reassured that, according to Buddhist doctrine, your mere wish to not cease to exist will automatically cause you to be reborn. Again, this is something that a beginner will often ask about, but shouldn't even waste a single moment thinking about. Before you worry about a potential afterlife, why not make sure you make this very life the best it can possibly be? This is what Buddhism is about. The fact that what leads to good results in this life also leads to good results thereafter is just a bonus, if you choose to believe in an afterlife, which is not a requirement. The Buddha himself said not to believe what he says just because he says it. Think for yourself and investigate. This is at the core of Buddhist practice.
7.) You can disagree with anyone. You are free to dislike anyone. Eventually you will find out that disrespecting anyone and even dislike anyone are activities that are not good for you, so Buddhists will usually recommend that you accept and love everyone, but you certainly don't have to consider the Dalai Lama your religious leader or some sort of "pope."
8.) You don't have to convert. Buddhism, unlike Christianity, understands itself not as an organization that should coerce/convince/persuade people to join, but merely as a tradition/teaching/method which helps those interested in improving their lives. Buddhist practice helps you discover the ultimate truth of what the world is, what existence is, what we are, and what we are not. Once you understand this truth, you will also understand—on a much deeper level than you thought possible—that your name is just a word, and whether you call yourself Christian or not is also just a word. If you approach the subject like this, your parents may understand that all you're doing is practicing morality, concentration, and mindfulness, in order to gain insight and peace. In Buddhism, you don't have to "be" anything, not even a Buddhist. What matters are your intentional actions (mental, verbal, and physical), not what labels you assign to yourself or others.
Spiny