Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Examples: Monday, today, last week, Mar 26, 3/26/04
Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.

Superstition in Buddhism

edited February 2012 in Buddhism Basics
Buddhism seems to be very steeped with myths, legends, and superstition. I do not mean this in a negative way, but more in a scholarly sense. Much of Eastern Buddhism has beliefs in literal rebirth/reincarnation, beliefs in Cosmic Bodhisattvas and devas, telepathy and other "magic" powers, among many other beliefs.

If someone were to want to follow Buddhism, would it be wrong on them to disregard these beliefs? Or, would that stop Buddhism from really being "Buddhism," if you know what I mean.

Thanks.

Comments

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    I would quantify and be more specific in that "SOME sectors, or a couple of traditions are steeped in...."
    examination, scrutiny, analysis and questioning are the order of the day... and if something doesn't sit well with you, either put it aside for now, or discard it as not your bag.
    there are some aspects of Theravada i find it difficult to follow; there are many aspects of Tibetan Buddhism I can't get my head around at all... and Pure-land Buddhism and chanting Namo Amitabha, or Zen Buddhism, are simply - not for me.
    That doesn't make them invalid, inconsequential or wrong.
    for some, they are the path to follow.

    and that's ok.
  • “Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.”

    The Buddha
  • The reason I ask is often times I call myself a Buddhist, people will ask me what I believe, and when I tell them, they will tell me, "That's not Buddhism. That's the white-washed fake Buddhism."
  • No one, including all the Buddhas of the multiverse, have cornered the market on enlightenment...find your own way.
  • B5CB5C Veteran
    A lot of the superstition in Buddhism comes from it's Hindu origin & Buddhism easily can assimilate with other cultures and mixing with other local religions.
  • Stuffed ripped straight from wiki.

    The self-consistent Buddhist cosmology which is presented in commentaries and works of Abhidharma in both Theravāda and Mahāyāna traditions, is the end-product of an analysis and reconciliation of cosmological comments found in the Buddhist sūtra and vinaya traditions. No single sūtra sets out the entire structure of the universe. However, in several sūtras the Buddha describes other worlds and states of being, and other sūtras describe the origin and destruction of the universe. The synthesis of these data into a single comprehensive system must have taken place early in the history of Buddhism, as the system described in the Pāli Vibhajyavāda tradition (represented by today's Theravādins) agrees, despite some trivial inconsistencies of nomenclature, with the Sarvāstivāda tradition which is preserved by Mahāyāna Buddhists.

    The picture of the world presented in Buddhist cosmological descriptions cannot be taken as a literal description of the shape of the universe. It is inconsistent, and cannot be made consistent, with astronomical data that were already known in ancient India. However, it is not intended to be a description of how ordinary humans perceive their world[citation needed]; rather, it is the universe as seen through the divyacakṣus (Pāli: dibbacakkhu), the "divine eye" by which a Buddha or an arhat who has cultivated this faculty can perceive all of the other worlds and the beings arising (being born) and passing away (dying) within them, and can tell from what state they have been reborn and into what state they will be reborn. The cosmology has also been interpreted in a symbolical or allegorical sense (see Ten spiritual realms).

    Buddhist cosmology can be divided into two related kinds: spatial cosmology, which describes the arrangement of the various worlds within the universe, and temporal cosmology, which describes how those worlds come into existence, and how they pass away.

    Or take this link as there is a hell of a lot to read through with regards to buddhist cosmology.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_cosmology
  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
    Personally, Zen Buddhism works for me. However, I do not follow the superstition kind of Zen Buddhism. I simply use Mindfulness and Compassion. These two things are not superstitious and are the cornerstones of all top religions as well as belief systems. I suggest you try a few Sects for yourself and see how you feel. Perhaps speaking to a Monk or a Scholar might be beneficial. There are good books to read as well. Start here: http://www.buddhanet.net
  • I just finished reading all of the wikilink I posted, and wow. That is a lot to take in and digest I must say.
  • Above are a small portion and power of a “vast“ buddha mind. And it can be of awesome perception but it cant be applied to solution on problem of living beings entirely.
  • @bekenze - perhaps when they ask you what you believe you can open with white-washed fake buddhism! give them a little zen mind!!

    @B5C hits it - its very similar to other global faiths - take Islam for example - the central work is the Koran - this is intricate and subtle poetry supposedly written by an illiterate man - the Koran itself proposes enlightenment in its own way - the concept and path set out there is not incompatible with say the Buddhist way - there is one theme of teaching from the prophet himself (apparently) that states he is nothing, he is not to be followed or venerated, his grave is to be unmarked - that the Koran is the word of God and each person should look to their heart in interpreting what the word of God means to them.

    That said, there are a greater weight of works such as the Hadiths and interpretations of Islamic scholars and various saints of different traditions - they go on to spell out a whole heap of rules from how you should dress, what punishments are for crimes, even how to wipe your @ss after a shit (citing every eventuality!!) - these works also incorporate beliefs that clearly go back to Sumerian times (and incorporate Sumerian concepts of social administration) - there is also a body of work from the Sufi and Dervish background that sets out a different approach to the Hadiths and 'mainstream' beliefs - strangely, it is like a completely different religion (but when read with the Koran it is closer to the Koran than the established dicta) - even the area where the Kaaba stone is now is known to have been used for worship long before Islam.

    In the times where these religions commenced, religion and politics were pretty much the same thing - he who had God's ear and spoke God's word was a canditate to rule on Earth - I also think of The Life of Brian where he is running away and drops his gourd and then his shoe and different sects venerating each are created there and then and pretty soon theyre fighting each other over who is right!

    The message overall from the Buddhist tradition is profound and wonderfully inspiring - I dont feel it needs the chanting, the beads, the incense, the gongs, the monestaries or robes etc to make it any more than it is - man vs divine I guess!!
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    edited February 2012
    I don't think it would be improper to not engage them if they don't "click" with you. But do think it would be improper to go all the way to the other side and declare them as false.

    Someone once asked a zen master "What happens after you die?" He said "I don't know, I haven't died yet!" Notice he didn't say "this" or "that" or "nothing". He said I don't know. "I don't know" is quite appropriate IMO. :)
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    edited February 2012
    “Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.”

    The Buddha
    This is appropriate here. However Buddha only says "But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.” He doesn't say a carefully controlled, double blind, reapeted, longitudinal study. Meaning, I think its ok to believe in the more mystical parts based upon reason and experience without having hard evidence or absolute proof.

    That said the most important thing is whether whatever you believes helps or hinders you in becoming a kinder person and transforming your mind.

    And like @seeker242 said if there isn't complete proof one way or the other its good to not cling to whatever the belief is too tightly. Just say this is what I believe but I don't know for sure.
  • SileSile Veteran
    edited February 2012
    I think it's a slight misconception of history to think of religions as "mixed up" with cultural imagery. There isn't any religion that has been born in a vacuum independent of culture, so all religion naturally contains imagery which to one group of people seems normal, but to a different group of people can seem "foreign" or superstitious or primitive.

    If I were a great meditator, for example, I could use a rock as the object of meditation just as effectively as a statue or image of the Buddha. But for me, the image of the Buddha is more inspiring and also helps me generate a sense of love and compassion, because of my own history and my own feelings about Buddhism. So for me, it feels more effective than a rock. But a Christian friend (or anyone else) may look at my meditation practice and say, "Oh, you're worshipping an eastern pagan idol." Or a fellow Buddhist may even ask, "Why do you need what is obviously a pre-Buddhist image adopted into Indian Buddhism and then further mixed up with Tibetan indigenous culture."

    Cultural legacy is inherent in all forms of Buddhism, and it's hard to say whether something is "mixed up" with Buddhism or simply historical imagery. If the cultural trait seems to go against what you feel is a Buddhist belief, then that would be a good sign for you personally not to use that imagery in your practice. However, that same cultural trait might have no effect, or might even enhance, someone else's practice.

    Unless we have the misfortune to be born blind or deaf, Buddhism will always have sound and imagery from a culture; it's simply a question of which culture.
  • You know I can't help but wonder if Tibetans had this very same conversation back when Buddhism was first introduced, lol.
  • jlljll Veteran
    To play the devils's advocate, Buddha is a superstition.
    The myth of a man who ended all suffering.
    He talked about his previous lives and predicted the coming
    of future Buddhas.
    Do you believe all that?
    Buddhism seems to be very steeped with myths, legends, and superstition. I do not mean this in a negative way, but more in a scholarly sense. Much of Eastern Buddhism has beliefs in literal rebirth/reincarnation, beliefs in Cosmic Bodhisattvas and devas, telepathy and other "magic" powers, among many other beliefs.

    If someone were to want to follow Buddhism, would it be wrong on them to disregard these beliefs? Or, would that stop Buddhism from really being "Buddhism," if you know what I mean.

    Thanks.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    edited February 2012
    To play the devils's advocate, Buddha is a superstition.
    The myth of a man who ended all suffering.
    He talked about his previous lives and predicted the coming
    of future Buddhas.
    Do you believe all that?

    I'll bite.

    No, I don't believe everything in the history of Buddhist thought. But among the various writings and stories and myths is a lot of wisdom worth seeking out.

    Okay, folks, start throwing stones!

  • I agree with Vinlyn.
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran

    I'll bite.

    No, I don't believe everything in the history of Buddhist thought. But among the various writings and stories and myths is a lot of wisdom worth seeking out.

    Okay, folks, start throwing stones!

    You might as well have said 'Jehovah' ;)

  • I'm not aware of a myth of a man who ended all suffering. What I'm aware of are the teachings of a man who outlined a method that could be used to end suffering.

    I believe it's possible to gain an awareness of past lived. What I don't believe in are embellishments such as the Buddha being born of a virgin.
  • something about a finger and the moon again?
  • Why does what others do have to matter to you? If another Buddhist wants to do lucky charms, or pray at a Shrine deity, why do you need to care or condemn about it? What direct affect does another Buddhist's practice have to yours? Your question seems like you want to change others to conform to what you think should be "correct" Buddhism. If you do not want others to define you, why do you try to define others?
  • If someone were to want to follow Buddhism, would it be wrong on them to disregard these beliefs? Or, would that stop Buddhism from really being "Buddhism," if you know what I mean.
    Not atall, and there are quite a lot of secular Buddhists, and arguably Buddhist practice is about discovery rather than belief.
    Though I think it's good to keep an open mind, because disbelieving things is really not the point either.
  • shanyinshanyin Novice Yogin Sault Ontario Veteran
    I have posted this.article.before but I like it and it may answer your questions it is by my teacher
    http://arrowriver.ca/dhamma/faith.html
  • The reason I ask is often times I call myself a Buddhist, people will ask me what I believe, and when I tell them, they will tell me, "That's not Buddhism. That's the white-washed fake Buddhism."
    OH, I needed a laugh, and that's all one can do when faced with the illusions of the world.

    "You're not a REAL (Christian or Buddhist or Muslim or American or Conservative or Liberal or whatever) unless you believe (insert creed here).

    To answer your real question, no you are not alone and millions of Buddhists including entire schools of Buddhism are firmly planted in realty and don't believe in literal reincarnation or literal Hells or gods. We love the rich history and diversity of practice in Buddhism but see all this as a byproduct of the mind's desire to make sense of the world around them combined with a human imagination.

    Within Buddhism, we don't have much of a problem with diversity of beliefs, because we know it's not what's important in defining a Buddhist. To those outside in the West, I suppose they have a muddled picture of the Dalai Lama as the Pope and a bunch of bowing to a statue and ceremony with pictures of scary figures on the temple walls and that's Buddhism to them.
  • To answer your real question, no you are not alone and millions of Buddhists including entire schools of Buddhism are firmly planted in realty and don't believe in literal reincarnation or literal Hells or gods.
    Which schools don't believe in rebirth and the realms?

    Spiny
  • The Zen schools teach no-self, and that means reincarnation is seen as a moment to moment rebirth since there is no permanent self to be reincarnated. Also, most Western orientated Zen Buddhist schools don't teach literal Hells and Heavens and gods and demons and such. That's much more of a cultural thing. Hell and Heaven are instead seen as states of mind here and now.

    That is why Zen schools are sometimes refered to as "transmission outside of sutras".

    If there is a Unitarian Universalist group near you, they might have someone involved in the UU Buddhist Association.
  • Perosnally I believe in rebirthin the literal sense due to what the buddha spoke of post awakening. However it takes A LOT of blind to conform to the deva realms etc, I read up on that recently in detail and it is quite extraordinary.
  • cazcaz Veteran United Kingdom Veteran
    Perosnally I believe in rebirthin the literal sense due to what the buddha spoke of post awakening. However it takes A LOT of blind to conform to the deva realms etc, I read up on that recently in detail and it is quite extraordinary.
    When one accomplishes insight and some clairvoyance these things are confirmed.

  • Perosnally I believe in rebirthin the literal sense due to what the buddha spoke of post awakening. However it takes A LOT of blind to conform to the deva realms etc, I read up on that recently in detail and it is quite extraordinary.
    When one accomplishes insight and some clairvoyance these things are confirmed.

    @caznamyaw you have known this firstan had, had insights yourself, ot merely read into it or heard from a teacher?
  • cazcaz Veteran United Kingdom Veteran
    Perosnally I believe in rebirthin the literal sense due to what the buddha spoke of post awakening. However it takes A LOT of blind to conform to the deva realms etc, I read up on that recently in detail and it is quite extraordinary.
    When one accomplishes insight and some clairvoyance these things are confirmed.

    @caznamyaw you have known this firstan had, had insights yourself, ot merely read into it or heard from a teacher?
    @ThailandTom

    Ive had certain experiences which to me confirm the validity of Buddha's teachings. Even a Brief insight into emptiness can help piece together some of the more supernatural aspects of Buddha's teachings. Plus there is a lineage of accomplished practitioners whom have shown their selves to be trust worthy in their vows their knowledge and own personal non deluded insight into these things.
  • @caznamyaw thank you very much for your posts. Before I found buddhism I was a stupid, ignorane hating atheist, now I respect most religions. I have always believed in rebirth since I had studied it in the suttras etc. But, then again the Buddha did say let the dharma be your teacher and do not take anybodies word for truth. However, you have inspired me to continue with my own personal beliefs and ideologies related to this religon, thank you, Tom
  • "I'm not superstitious...I'm a little stitious ."
    Michael Scott
  • Why does what others do have to matter to you? If another Buddhist wants to do lucky charms, or pray at a Shrine deity, why do you need to care or condemn about it? What direct affect does another Buddhist's practice have to yours? Your question seems like you want to change others to conform to what you think should be "correct" Buddhism. If you do not want others to define you, why do you try to define others?
    Nope.
Sign In or Register to comment.