If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself?

person

If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us. ~Hermann Hesse


Is this true?

I think hate originates from fear. We hate what we fear. Imo, often we fear the things rattling around in our subconcious.

For myself I find that the things that bother me most in other people are the things that bother me the most about myself.

Agree, disagree, thoughts, opinions?

AllbuddhaBound

I think hate can originate from fear, but I believe it also originates from a sense of superiority. Self-righteousness and intolerance seem to walk hand in hand.

Mountains

Why hate? It does nothing but cause you (not the other person) suffering. You can hate me, but I really don't care. It drains your energy...

federica

I think on analysis, it's true - because every human being has certain traits shared.... to a certain extent.

We're all lazy. some more than others, some less.
We're all egotistic. some more than others, some less.
We're all stubborn. some more than others, some less.
We're all greedy. some more than others, some less.
we're all gossips. some more than others, some less.
We're all resentful. some more than others, some less....

get the picture....?

AllbuddhaBound

But think about racial intolerance. We`re all black?

taiyaki

We can only see based on our karma. So if we see something detestable in another, we can only see that because we were at one point detestable in the same way.

How else could we see something detestable? It is not coming at us, but from us.

Hatred could deal with fear or anger. Fear in the sense of change and the unknown. Anger in the sense of personal boundaries. It all comes down to control and ego.

person

I think on analysis, it's true - because every human being has certain traits shared.... to a certain extent.

We're all lazy. some more than others, some less.
We're all egotistic. some more than others, some less.
We're all stubborn. some more than others, some less.
We're all greedy. some more than others, some less.
we're all gossips. some more than others, some less.
We're all resentful. some more than others, some less....

get the picture....?

I guess my point is its the things that bother us. I may be lazy or egotistic but if I don't dislike that part of me I won't dislike it in someone else. Unless I'm not picking up what you're laying down.

Jeffrey

Some days I am hateful and some days I don't notice.

Sorry to spread the good cheer today.

federica

But think about racial intolerance. We`re all black?

that's not what the OP is talking about.
You're distinctly off-kilter....

AllbuddhaBound

The point I would like to make is that there are more reasons for hatred than just hating what we have inside us. There are people who hate simply because it makes them belong to a group of fellow haters.

The nazis built hatred on feelings of superiority, jealousy and self-preservation. I think
people had to convince themselves that they hated Jews just to fit in.

federica

Wow! Godwin's law by post #10!

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GodwinsLaw

is this a record....?

person

The point I would like to make is that there are more reasons for hatred than just hating what we have inside us. There are people who hate simply because it makes them belong to a group of fellow haters.

The nazis built hatred on feelings of superiority, jealousy and self-preservation. I think
people had to convince themselves that they hated Jews just to fit in.

I like this point. I can't come up with anything opposed to it off the top of my head. I've never been someone that dislikes or hates another group because they're different. I'll think on it for a bit and see if anything comes up.

AllbuddhaBound

LOL perhaps. But the Nazi's are the poster boys of hatred and intolerance.

person

Wow! Godwin's law by post #10!

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GodwinsLaw

is this a record....?

Lol, this image was at that link.



My understanding of Godwin's Law though is its if someone compares another person or his ideas to nazism not simply mentioning nazi's.

Jeffrey

In any case when I think of shit I guess it's a dharma gift to keep practicing.

AllbuddhaBound

I hope you are right Person. Kristin Neff mentions Nazi's all the time and I hate to think everything she wrote is discounted.

vinlyn

No no need to discount any point just because it's compared to the Third Reich. When debating two points, one naturally points to well known instances or extreme examples. That's valid debating. The whole Godwin's law thing has just become a cliche.

Jeffrey

I think person is right. When you hate it's directed at all phenomena and people. When you feel good everything is right and then not so good.

Jeffrey

I don't agree vinylyn. Person is talking about the average Joe or Jane? Not some Nazis. In Buddhism everyone has hate not just the worst.

AMH

I used to very much agree, but I don't anymore. I rarely feel hate, I have people I avoid, ones I have difficulty with, ones I feel compassion towards.

I am thinking of the person who bothers me the most right now. I have spent the last century (as it feels) facing myself and my inner crap so I am rather over it and just dealing with what is. So this person was fairly neutral and now could be somewhat of a threat to people I like. It is the mother bear in me, don't mess with people I care about. Do I see myself and my unaccepted parts? Not really,

So I think it is a good quote because often we have suppressed parts of ourselves we are not accepting but as all quotes it is limited. Don't put it above your experience.

vinlyn

I don't agree vinylyn. Person is talking about the average Joe or Jane? Not some Nazis. In Buddhism everyone has hate not just the worst.

I'm not talking about this specific example. I'm just talking about valid debating techniques.

AllbuddhaBound

The reason I used the Nazi comparison is because it has been used very effectively to describe how people who bully are not doing so out of their own self hatred. Neff uses that example very effectively in her book "Self-Compassion".

Neff uses the Nazi example as a demonstration of people who base their hatred on feelings of superiority rather than inferiority. When you apply bullying in school, it is quite often the most popular people with the highest self-esteem who perpetrate it.

Jeffrey

Another point is that although hate is in the dictionary and we can read what it 'is' we are all different.

For example my Lama had a bad memory of her mother having depression. But as she has had to work with depressed students she has understood that for others that word is assigned differently.

In me hate is when I feel nothing and I just want to slam myu fist against the ground. Next is to cry.

AllbuddhaBound

I know people often fuel resentment and hatred with language such as "I would never do something like that" so then they fuel it with that kind of reasoning, it is self-rightousness rather than fear.

Jeffrey

Allbuddha bound I don't think nazi is a good example because it is too extreme. It is like saying shit is the strawberry in the zen story.

ownerof1000oddsocks

"Let (s)he who is without sin cast the first stone."

Is this another way of saying everyone is guilty? If so, then somebody has to be doing the judging. So if we find something unbearable in another person, chances are, we share the same quality as that person; and so we begin the process of becoming intolerant of ourselves.

Perhaps when we judge other people, it is diverting our own lack of self-acceptance and temporarily alleviating the shame we experience.

When we experience (emotional) stress we also experience anxiety. Where ever we are reminded of our own misgivings we begin to feel stressed and anxious and attribute the cause of those feelings to whatever or whoever brings the issue to the surface, and bursting our bubble of peace.

Jeffrey

The nazis are not so unique other cultures have been destroyed such as the Anasazi indians:

http://pages.towson.edu/brenda/newmexico/anasazi.htm

AllbuddhaBound

I know that the most popular mantra around is to provide the child with "high self-esteem" and you will solve their problems. This might support the argument that hatred lies in the roots of self-hatred but examples such as the Nazi's (who had no shortage of high self esteem) would suggest otherwise.

The use of Nazi's was simply a way to demonstrate in language that is understood by most everyone, that hate can come from people who actually never question their own value.

Jeffrey

Self-esteem isn't a lack of hate for the self. Only at the sotapani stage is the hate gone.

vinlyn

The nazis are not so unique other cultures have been destroyed such as the Anasazi indians:

http://pages.towson.edu/brenda/newmexico/anasazi.htm

What has an extended years-long drought got to do with the Nazis?

upekka

If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us. ~Hermann Hesse


Is this true?
Agree, disagree, thoughts, opinions?

Agree

First of all, we consider there is a person which is actually a perception in our mind

if that perception is not for our liking, we hate that perception

and

we say 'I hate that person'

ultimately

where does our hate lies on?

on the perception that is in our mind

if we go a bit further
what is actually in front of us?
a colour which brings up from a combination of earth, fire, water and air

we gave a name to it 'a person'

Jeffrey

I see hate as a need to feel powerful. The hate feels so good because we get a rush. Naturally the effect is retaliation. Then you don't feel powerful and the cycle continues.

When we feel good we can widen. But the important part is to treat each action as mindfulness. Even wrong actions.

Jeffrey

@vinylyn, sorry I am a history ignorant person and I misread the article.

vinlyn

@vinylyn, sorry I am a history ignorant person and I misread the article.

ok, no problem. it really came to my attention, because over the past few days I have been planning a trip down into the 4 Corners Region, mostly to Anasazi sites.

Dakini

The point I would like to make is that there are more reasons for hatred than just hating what we have inside us. There are people who hate simply because it makes them belong to a group of fellow haters.

The nazis built hatred on feelings of superiority, jealousy and self-preservation. I think
people had to convince themselves that they hated Jews just to fit in.

This type of thing is usually part of a concerted propaganda campaign to dehumanize the "other", those who are different. This happens in times of war, where it's important for the gov't to dehumanize the enemy (think: Vietnam War), or anytime society or the political Powers That Be feel it's advantageous to create an underclass. Hatred of an entire class of people is usually taught, it's not innate, except possibly for those still living on a tribal level, where fear of the "other" is necessary for survival.

AllbuddhaBound

The point I would like to make is that there are more reasons for hatred than just hating what we have inside us. There are people who hate simply because it makes them belong to a group of fellow haters.

The nazis built hatred on feelings of superiority, jealousy and self-preservation. I think
people had to convince themselves that they hated Jews just to fit in.

This type of thing is usually part of a concerted propaganda campaign to dehumanize the "other", those who are different. This happens in times of war, where it's important for the gov't to dehumanize the enemy (think: Vietnam War), or anytime society or the political Powers That Be feel it's advantageous to create an underclass. Hatred of an entire class of people is usually taught, it's not innate, except possibly for those still living on a tribal level, where fear of the "other" is necessary for survival.

I don't necessarily agree that it is a concerted propaganda campaign. I believe it is much more common than that. I believe it happens in high schools, on the job and in society as well.

Dakini

ABB, I was addressing the Nazi example, and ethnic hatred by extension. There's no question there was a propaganda campaign against the Jews, along with a similar ethnic superiority campaign to teach everyone to view themselves as superior, if they fit a certain profile.

What are you referring to, in your high school and on the job examples? I think those cases fall under the types of hate already discussed here, I have nothing to add on that score. And sure, there are people (especially junior high and HS-age, where fitting in tends to be almost crucial for ego-survival) who hate just to fit in with a group. Adults who are insecure may do that, too.

lamaramadingdong

To the OP's original question, absolutely.

compassionate_warrior

I disagree that this would universally be the case. There are a variety of reasons for hate, IMHO.

KnightofBuddha

If you hate thing that are evil, it's not a problem. If you hate decency, freedom of conscience, women, freedom of speech/religion/etc, then that's a problem. It probably means you're going to try and stop people from those things.

Zero

Hate arises from imbalance - evil is not easily met with imbalance.

vinlyn

If you hate thing that are evil, it's not a problem. If you hate decency, freedom of conscience, women, freedom of speech/religion/etc, then that's a problem. It probably means you're going to try and stop people from those things.

You haven't thought this through far enough. After all, there are people who feel Buddhism is evil.

Dakini

"Evil" is in the eye of the beholder.

KnightofBuddha

If you hate thing that are evil, it's not a problem. If you hate decency, freedom of conscience, women, freedom of speech/religion/etc, then that's a problem. It probably means you're going to try and stop people from those things.

You haven't thought this through far enough. After all, there are people who feel Buddhism is evil.

I have given it a great deal of thought. Your answer is the logical one if you accept that there is no such thing as good and evil, right and wrong.

DaltheJigsaw

I agree! with this question/comment!

SpinyNorman2

If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us. ~Hermann Hesse

I think this is often the case, but I also think that sometimes we dislike people simply because they aren't giving us what we want, or they're not the way we want them to be.

Spiny

person

If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us. ~Hermann Hesse

I think this is often the case, but I also think that sometimes we dislike people simply because they aren't giving us what we want, or they're not the way we want them to be.

Spiny

Good point. I guess then I'd want to readjust the OP slightly to differentiate between emotion (short term), mood (medium term), and trait (long term), and say I regard hate here as a trait.

The point I would like to make is that there are more reasons for hatred than just hating what we have inside us. There are people who hate simply because it makes them belong to a group of fellow haters.

The nazis built hatred on feelings of superiority, jealousy and self-preservation. I think
people had to convince themselves that they hated Jews just to fit in.

I think maybe someone who hates out of superiority may be afraid of weakness or vulnerability in themselves.

Then there are those who hate out of a desire to fit in. It could be the case that they start to fit in and develop hate later. Not sure how that would work with the original quote.

Not an expert on Nazi history but in my view it arose out of the charisma and personality of Hitler. I don't know anything about his psyche, so can't really make any conclusions.

ownerof1000oddsocks

I feel that I should have more faith in people, but maybe that also hinges on offering hope. Not giving other people reasons to doubt or become jaded.

Even so I'm still an imperfect being capable of mistakes. So often in the past I've been such a bad enemy to myself. It is in that quality of self respect and self care that I arrive to really appreciate others.

I recognise that's really where we all want to go. When people offer me hope and boost my faith I suddenly snap out of my misery. The fear and anxiety wane; the warmth and peace of mind encourage me.

to future health!

ownerof1000oddsocks

Another thing to consider- if this has not already been mentioned- is that when I don't care about myself, I have a tendency to envy other people who are successful and happy. I'm sure this would help to create a feeling of resentment (among a bundle of other terms that loosely communicate our emotions)

When I'm taking care of myself, instead I'm inspired by people who strive to lead better lives, to keep moving on. All is not lost so long as we continue to get up on our own steam.

AllbuddhaBound

If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us. ~Hermann Hesse

I think this is often the case, but I also think that sometimes we dislike people simply because they aren't giving us what we want, or they're not the way we want them to be.

Spiny

Good point. I guess then I'd want to readjust the OP slightly to differentiate between emotion (short term), mood (medium term), and trait (long term), and say I regard hate here as a trait.

The point I would like to make is that there are more reasons for hatred than just hating what we have inside us. There are people who hate simply because it makes them belong to a group of fellow haters.

The nazis built hatred on feelings of superiority, jealousy and self-preservation. I think
people had to convince themselves that they hated Jews just to fit in.

I think maybe someone who hates out of superiority may be afraid of weakness or vulnerability in themselves.

Then there are those who hate out of a desire to fit in. It could be the case that they start to fit in and develop hate later. Not sure how that would work with the original quote.

Not an expert on Nazi history but in my view it arose out of the charisma and personality of Hitler. I don't know anything about his psyche, so can't really make any conclusions.

I believe people can talk themselves into hatred just because it works for them. It may just be out of self preservation but maybe it gives us some advantage to hate too. I just think believing hatred stems from something inside us is an oversimplification and it supports the ongoing attempt at increasing self-esteem as a means to ending hatred.

person

I just think believing hatred stems from something inside us is an oversimplification and it supports the ongoing attempt at increasing self-esteem as a means to ending hatred.

The way I see it is its not that its something inside us and if we have toget rid of it so we won't hate. Its that we don't accept or have compassion for the things inside of us, ie we hate aspects of ourselves and then we project that hate onto others so we don't have to face it in ourselves. So having love and acceptance of our negative traits is what removes hate.