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Yes. But I just meant that for Christianity to be Christianity and Christians to be Christians, Jesus needs to be believed to have existed and be worshipped.
Buddhists don't necessarily have to believe that Gautama Buddha existed to be Buddhist.
I see what you're saying, and in a sense what all this goes back to is whether you see Buddhism as a philosophy or as a religion.
On this forum, people pretty much treat Buddhism as a religion. On another Buddhist forum that I've been a part of in the past, just the opposite was true. Most treated it as a philosophy.
I will take wisdom wherever it comes from. If it comes from Buddha, fine. If it comes from Jesus, fine. If it comes from Justin Bieber, that's fine, also. The difference between Buddha and Christ is that their wisdom comes in an all-encompassing package, where other individuals may dispense a little wisdom here and a little wisdom there.
I find justin beiber has very little to say about spirituality, @vinlyn...I feel as you do in that sense that you need to be open to other philosophies and then make up your mind. I view buddhaism as a philosophy as well, not a religion...and there are some who see it that way as well here too.
I find justin beiber has very little to say about spirituality, @vinlyn...I feel as you do in that sense that you need to be open to other philosophies and then make up your mind. I view buddhaism as a philosophy as well, not a religion...and there are some who see it that way as well here too.
I picked the Bieb out of the air as a means of saying that anyone who has wisdom ought to be listened to.
And, actually, Bieber has talked about his faith on t.v. a number of times.
All "good" religions tend to have a lot of similarities: be a good person, be compassionate towards others, and certain things are bad.
That's why I find it funny when Muslims defend their religion by saying that Islam is a religion of peace. Aren't they all religions of peace. Every religion has their bad apples.
It reminds me of a documentary on monsters. Why the image of a dragon can be similar across many countries. We all have some common fears as humans. We'd all be afraid of something big, with sharp teeth, can fly faster than we can run away, and something with fire that can burn us.
I think over the centuries we've also collectively built up ideas of what it means to be a good person and how we should live our lives. It's just that religions compiled all those ideas together into a system.
Jesus didn't need to be a buddha, all of these religions could have independently compiled these ideas on their own. And there could always be one person who excels at understanding these ideas, and excel at teaching them.
oooh, very sharp observation! You could turn this into an OP!
Jesus was not a Buddhist, he was a Jew. Stop trying to make things fit your own perceptions for your own enjoyment.
Ok, I'll bite. Jesus was a Jew ethnically, but it's possible that in terms of spiritual beliefs, his brand of Judaism, which everyone agrees departed radically from the Old Testament beliefs about God and certain social norms, may have incorporated some Buddhism.
Jesus was a Jew and did not 'depart radically' from 'the Law and the Prophets' - this is the majority view of scholars. Where Jesus was radically was in his emphasis on social justice and equity - he confronted the self-righteous who claimed that because they followed the minutiae of the Law that they were deemed acceptable ion God's sight.
The only part of Jesus' teachings that has any similarity to Buddhism is the need for compassion and for social equity. Jesus believed in God as Father and had no philosophy that approaches anything that might be termed 'emptiness'.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
With so much that has gone on and been written long after Jesus died, we can't honestly be really sure that he even believed in god, or how he perceived god, either. I think an awful lot of words might have been put into his mouth, post-mortem.....
By "departing radically" I meant (aside from the social justice and equity part) that he presented, as someone here put it awhile ago, a "warm and fuzzy" God, as opposed to a wrathful, angry God. A kinder, gentler God of love, not of anger and vengeance.
i would direct you to the book, The Original Jesus--the Buddhist Sources of Christianity by Elmar R. Gruber and Holger Kersten. They actually put the saying of each side by side. And then they question whether Jesus really existed.
Sort of. There are parallels. For one thing, the existing Judaism of Jesus' day was nothing like the religion of the Torah we see today. In the same way, the Hinduism of today is a far cry from the Brahminism that Gautama was raised in. But, both men used the existing spiritual language of the religion they and their followers understood, by necessity, and put their own spin on it.
I think it's the opposite: Heaven is outside this world, while Nirvana is of this world, just a different way of seeing it and relating to it. On the other hand, Jesus did say that the kingdom of God is within us, so in that sense, his message taught a similar way to the Buddha's of being in this world but not "of" the world.
With so much that has gone on and been written long after Jesus died, we can't honestly be really sure that he even believed in god, or how he perceived god, either. I think an awful lot of words might have been put into his mouth, post-mortem.....
just my 2....
Quite so - but we can still see through the fog thrown up by authors with agendas to grind out.
Not denying you your understanding at all but...The definition of Nibbana is such that it is outside this world. That is the world created by the illusion of Ego. Heaven and Hell are both of this world according to the same definition...No Ego --> no heaven or Hell...
Comments
On this forum, people pretty much treat Buddhism as a religion. On another Buddhist forum that I've been a part of in the past, just the opposite was true. Most treated it as a philosophy.
I will take wisdom wherever it comes from. If it comes from Buddha, fine. If it comes from Jesus, fine. If it comes from Justin Bieber, that's fine, also. The difference between Buddha and Christ is that their wisdom comes in an all-encompassing package, where other individuals may dispense a little wisdom here and a little wisdom there.
If this is interesting, he has a 6 part series where he breaks it down much more, just google "alan watts" and "jesus"
And, actually, Bieber has talked about his faith on t.v. a number of times.
I'm actually chuckling at your 'beib' reference.
That's why I find it funny when Muslims defend their religion by saying that Islam is a religion of peace. Aren't they all religions of peace. Every religion has their bad apples.
It reminds me of a documentary on monsters. Why the image of a dragon can be similar across many countries. We all have some common fears as humans. We'd all be afraid of something big, with sharp teeth, can fly faster than we can run away, and something with fire that can burn us.
I think over the centuries we've also collectively built up ideas of what it means to be a good person and how we should live our lives. It's just that religions compiled all those ideas together into a system.
Jesus didn't need to be a buddha, all of these religions could have independently compiled these ideas on their own. And there could always be one person who excels at understanding these ideas, and excel at teaching them.
The only part of Jesus' teachings that has any similarity to Buddhism is the need for compassion and for social equity. Jesus believed in God as Father and had no philosophy that approaches anything that might be termed 'emptiness'.
I think an awful lot of words might have been put into his mouth, post-mortem.....
just my 2....
The realm of Nibbana is something completly outside of this world. That is what is meant by two truths in Buddhism.
So Jesus was not a Buddha. He did not teach a Dhamma that was a path to Nibbana but to Heaven.
The Buddha Gotama taught both. But he on the other hand was not a son of God.
But I guess you could argue Christ might be the coming Buddha. Buddha Mitreya.
/Victor
i mean, thinking.
Thoughts?
Luke 17:21
Not denying you your understanding at all but...The definition of Nibbana is such that it is outside this world. That is the world created by the illusion of Ego.
Heaven and Hell are both of this world according to the same definition...No Ego --> no heaven or Hell...
@federica
Yes but if you say that a surgeons Liposuction equipment is a fat sucker. Would you fink that is a good or bad fing?
/Victor