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Idle Chatter
person
Don't believe everything you thinkThe liminal space Veteran
The Buddha described four unwholesome ways of speaking: idle chatter, lying, divisive speech, and abusive speech.My take is that its not that idle chatter is bad or wrong so much as its a distraction in our pursuit of understanding the mind in the same way that TV, music, reading fiction or any other type of pleasant distraction is. I certainly do my share of distracting things but I see them as such and that they are something to eventually be abandoned and not cultivated.
Since I habitually employ these types of "wrong speech" to advance my interests, I'd like to spend this week looking into them.
The Buddha suggested that we refrain from idle chatter, not because it causes explicit harm, but because it moves us away from the goal of liberation. The Buddha said that the noble practitioner abstains from idle chatter, so that she can speak thusly:
He speaks in season, speaks what is factual, what is in accordance with the goal, the Dhamma, & the Vinaya. He speaks words worth treasuring, seasonable, reasonable, circumscribed, connected with the goal.*
Right speech, then, advances the listener to the dharmic goal of enlightenment. Idle chatter, at the very least, distracts from that objective.
The Buddha's teaching in this matter bolsters my long-held view that people naturally fall into two categories: those who make "big talk" and those who make "small talk." Small talkers flourish in social settings; big talkers don't. Big talkers read this blog; small talkers don't. (Just setting out my biases, here . . .)
http://www.oxherding.com/my_weblog/2010/11/right-speech-idle-chatter.html
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Comments
retreats or even just time dedicated to serious meditation is difficult difficult to make happen for many of us, would be unfortunate to waste it by doing distracting things (like this or any of the other precepts)
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I don't know why but this discussion is upsetting. Is anyone here really bothered by banter aside from possibilities, please speak up.
IMO there could be a better balance of Dharma discussion and fun talk, but also ..somehow.. a practice element.
I was a member here a couple of years ago and it was ruthlessly trolled by a dogmatic maniac, and was full of pedantic posing.. so IMHO it is a lot more friendly and easy going now, and full of potential for connection than it was before...IMHO.
Which is why I get on some members to do so. While I'm upset at possibilities post, I think that voicing concerns is important, much like person did, with grace.
If I hadn't seen Richards art, I would have never know his talent. How would I have know he was an artist? It wasn't until he posted it. . . That's not meaningless.
Vinlyn may not thread but his stories are fascinating and paint a picture around a man I find endearing, same with genkaku.
Aheerdt, Tom, and myself have bee guilty of journaing the forum. . . Isn't it important to know one another?
We post discussions about other religions...such as Jesus, is there no room here to compare and contrast?
...how else are we going to get to know one another?
But how is that fair to people browsing the web for a new shanga?
Then it would become a seperate exclusively private group...is that what we want?
So, Richard's art wasn't "idle chatter"? What are we going to do, set up the Idle Chatter police, to decide what topics are serious enough to be acceptable?
Chill everybody. It's all good. I'm looking forward to seeing possibilities, Richard, person, and others post more Buddhist threads. btw, I love person's science videos. And what about political topics, are they "idle chatter"?
So "idle chatter" is prohibited. You're what, commiting a sin or making bad karma or anyhow being UnBuddhist if you don't shut up and stop talking to people. That cashier who smiles at you at the store checkout and asks how your day is going? Idle chatter! Don't you dare spend a few minutes letting her know you see her as a person worthy of talking to. That coworker who wants to talk about the movie they saw the day before? Idle chatter! Ignore them until they go away. I talk to my mother several times a week in Ohio, and to an old friend in a nursing home by phone once a week or so. About nothing in particular, just...idle chatter.
People are social animals. Sometimes it's not the content of what we're talking about that's important, it's that we make the effort to connect. Sometimes that means talking about the weather, or a favorite TV show.
So why this prohibition against idle chatter when the sutra talks about right speech? It's supposed to refer to the usual group of monks. They're supposed to be learning. The temple is their school. It's a teacher telling the class to sit down and shut up. So yes, there is a time and place for everything, and shutting up is included. Just don't try to wrap your entire life around it.
What @Cinorjer wrote is also wise: "idle chatter" could surely be extended to responding to the cashier who asks how your day is, but if you respond and ask how their day is, you're extending metta. So I don't view this as idle chatter at all.
If the good intentions are there fine, for many of us with even a modicum of social awareness we can usually tell whether someone is out of order or not, but on the internet we can't see another persons face, and this is further complicated by cultural differences.
It does make me wonder, since communication is arguably much more non-verbal, and based on body language than content. In a virtual setting this factor is obviously missing so we're in the dark in this respect.
To me it comes down to where we look for our happiness in life. Buddhism teaches that conditioned phenomena are subject to anatta, anicca, and dukkha. So looking to chit chat for our happiness is the wrong approach. That doesn't mean the mighty hand of the all powerful Karma is going to slap you upside the head and send you to hell for talking to people.
Also other people are indispensible for our happiness. They are how we're able to simply survive. They are also the source for our love and compassion to arise and any good qualities and happiness arises in dependence upon others. We can't really function in life without talking and often the right and kind thing to do is offer someone some understanding and companionship.
So like in all things Buddhist there is likely some middle way between building a life out of mindless gossip and a lifetime vow of silence.
:thumbup: agree! seems obvious :-)
As for the rest tldnr.
Art makes life more liveable
Back to topic.
The brilliant artist thing has no traction when you are talking turkey.. At openings once every two years or so... you overhear your mother saying you are brilliant, and squrm.
Writing takes the desire to tell a story, a hefty dose of imagination, and learning the craft of putting that story into words on paper through trial and error and lots of rejections. It's the craft part where most people drop out. How do you write an effective, eye catching opening? What makes a good character? That sort of thing.