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What About the Peacemakers?

personperson Don't believe everything you thinkThe liminal space Veteran
edited March 2012 in General Banter
"Support our troops." "We live in a free country because of the sacrifice of all those willing to take up arms and fight for America." "What would the USA be without the wars we fought to maintain our freedom?"

Not asked so often is what would the USA be without the peacemakers fighting for women's sufferage, fighting for race equality, fighting for the homeless person or the down and out addict, fighting simply for the goodness in people's hearts.

Its not just the soldiers who make this country and any country in the world great, its the peacemakers that make the country worth protecting and fighting for.

Support our peacemakers.

Comments

  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
    And, perhaps more important, investigate what is called war and what is called peace. Talk is easy. Investigation is not so easy.
  • "Support our troops." "We live in a free country because of the sacrifice of all those willing to take up arms and fight for America." "What would the USA be without the wars we fought to maintain our freedom?"

    Well keep in mind that the US military's job does not deal with women's suffrage, homelessness, and race relations. Any more than it is the fireman's job.

    The soldier, sailor, airman, and marine's job surpasses those of the peacemaker's because it inherently carries with it the very real possibility of violent death at the hands of merciless bad men.

    Some would argue, as I would that the soldier is indeed the greatest of peacemakers because his very presence has prevented annihilation of whole countries in places like South Korea, where 50 million people do not live in slavery because of the sacrifice of men 60 years ago.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    I completely disagree with your post, but frankly, can't even be arsed to tell you why.

    if you don't understand by now that 'warmongering' on a Buddhist forum is going to have its fair share of dissenters, then that's why i cant be arsed to respond.....
  • I completely disagree with your post, but frankly, can't even be arsed to tell you why.

    if you don't understand by now that 'warmongering' on a Buddhist forum is going to have its fair share of dissenters, then that's why i cant be arsed to respond.....
    I'm well aware my above post is not going to be popular here. But I responded the way I felt about the questions, and let the chips fall where they will. If you want to respond in depth, great. If not, well that's fine too.

    And you are incorrect that it is "warmongering" to believe that the peaceful presence of troops in Korea actually prevents war.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited March 2012
    this thread is about celebrating the peacemakers, not the so-called peace-keepers.
    ergo, your post should really be considered off-topic....
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    My point is not that soldiers are pointless. Its that its the peacemakers that give the soldiers something worth fighting for. Without them what are soldiers fighting for? Land? Bodies?
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    My point is not that soldiers are pointless. Its that its the peacemakers that give the soldiers something worth fighting for. Without them what are soldiers fighting for? Land? Bodies?
    I like the way you stated that.

  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
    Once upon a time, one of my then-young sons came to me and said, "Papa, I want to make a gun." I knew that what he meant was that he was fascinated by the actual-factual machinery ... how does anyone actually make one. He was not hell-bent on some insane school massacre.

    So I packed him and his brother into the car, drove 20 miles and visited the Springfield Armory Museum. They had guns up the chute ... muskets, rifles, machine guns, pistols ... it went on and on down through the ages. And there were swords too. While the boys ambled from case to case, I chatted idly with the park service officer who was in charge of the place. And at one point, he said something that stuck with me: "This place," he said without any special inflection or ax to grind, "represents a history of diplomacy."

    At first, it struck me as an odd thing to say: Diplomacy was about discussing disagreements; weapons were a way of saying that diplomacy had failed. And then it occurred to me that that was exactly what he was saying and that the best anyone might hope is that those in a position to exercise diplomacy would do so with honesty and persistence ... because the alternative, as anyone who has been there will tell you, is both obscene and insane and has little or nothing to do with things called honor or freedom or democracy or justice.
  • this thread is about celebrating the peacemakers, not the so-called peace-keepers.
    ergo, your post should really be considered off-topic....
    I consider them both, but will leave it at that. I will kindly bow out from any further talk on this thread then.

  • edited March 2012
    I think this is a good thread if viewed with the right view. The people here at home "fighting" for peace, to reduce suffering, help the environment, civil rights, and those trying to keep our government's powers limited (especially these ones at the moment), DO NOT get nearly enough credit with why our country is great (was, it isn't so great at the moment, it powerful but not "great"). They are every bit as important as the soldier that puts his life on the line to protect it.

    I would give an equally honorable salute to the pure hearted soldiers out there protecting our country, and the civilians that fight from within to make it worth protecting.

    What would there be worth protecting if it wasn't for these everyday people. I am however very disappointed at the citizens that will not do their part at the moment to fix what is broken inside our country. In the past decade I have become ashamed of our Government and the general laziness of it's civilian population, but I still will not abandon her in her time of greatest need.

    Being in & around the military, the soldiers families, and all for 23+ years (still nearly all my family & friends are in someway military connected), I can with experience tell you everyone I know wants peace. They do their job with pure hearts (the soldiers, not the higher ups giving the orders) though it might be misguided, so that we the civilian citizens have the freedom to fight our fights.
  • this thread is about celebrating the peacemakers, not the so-called peace-keepers.
    ergo, your post should really be considered off-topic....
    I consider them both, but will leave it at that. I will kindly bow out from any further talk on this thread then.

    Some folks just see things differently. I see that the USA has freed, protected and liberated more humans than any other country in the world. I sure don't see it as war mongering. Ideally, yes, world peace would be nice.
    Peacekeepers,peacemakers, whatever, but I am thankful for them.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    this thread is about celebrating the peacemakers, not the so-called peace-keepers.
    ergo, your post should really be considered off-topic....
    I consider them both, but will leave it at that. I will kindly bow out from any further talk on this thread then.

    Some folks just see things differently. I see that the USA has freed, protected and liberated more humans than any other country in the world. I sure don't see it as war mongering. Ideally, yes, world peace would be nice.
    Peacekeepers,peacemakers, whatever, but I am thankful for them.
    Thank you for expressing the other point of view so well.

  • RichardHRichardH Veteran
    edited March 2012
    "Support our troops." "We live in a free country because of the sacrifice of all those willing to take up arms and fight for America." "What would the USA be without the wars we fought to maintain our freedom?"

    Not asked so often is what would the USA be without the peacemakers fighting for women's sufferage, fighting for race equality, fighting for the homeless person or the down and out addict, fighting simply for the goodness in people's hearts.

    Its not just the soldiers who make this country and any country in the world great, its the peacemakers that make the country worth protecting and fighting for.

    Support our peacemakers.
    It would be interesting to do a poll on country origin on this forum.

    Each country has its own national warpfield. No country in the world says "we're # 2...!" I remember going through the Canadian /American border once during Canadian thanksgiving (which is in October). The American border guard said it was a busy day of crossings.. then said "you must all be coming here to give thanks for your freedom". He may have, officially, been the biggest asshole I have ever encountered.

    Peace keeping of the UN variety was the brainchild of Lester Pearson a Canadian Prime Minister.. and Canadians like to fancy themselves The Peacekeepers. ..but the reality is different and has been that way for a while. We had the good sense to keep out of the Iraqi adventure, but the trade-off with the Bush administration was combat deployment in Afghanistan.. which has been costly in Canadian blood.... . We didn't want to be "with the terrorists" by default. ... sorry ..off topic.

    The Occupy movement seemed to fizzle ,and for good reasons probably, but awareness of economic and social injustice, and the urge toward popular movement and change represents IMO the best of the U.S.
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran

    The Occupy movement seemed to fizzle ,and for good reasons probably, but awareness of economic and social injustice, and the urge toward popular movement and change represents IMO the best of the U.S.
    It fizzled with the cold weather. I wonder if it won't pick back up with the spring.
  • edited March 2012

    The Occupy movement seemed to fizzle ,and for good reasons probably, but awareness of economic and social injustice, and the urge toward popular movement and change represents IMO the best of the U.S.
    It fizzled with the cold weather. I wonder if it won't pick back up with the spring.
    Are you trying to follow what's going on with them on Mainstream media?
    I following them (and participate on some level) and cold weather has dropped down the physical presences for some parts of the country. Where I am they plan things every bit as much as when they started back in Sept., but we here never went for the constant presence here like they did @ Wall Street.
    Also have you missed the organizations that have formed, such as the 99% declaration, there are others but that's the one I participate with? In case you don't know of it, the best way to describe it is a possible alternate to our current government, that could potentially replace it. They will be election 878 delegates in June, They are working on a draft of grievances to take to our current government (to be ratified the week of 4th of July in Philadelphia).
    If it weren't for these group and organizations trying to do something I would be extremely depressed about our current state of affairs, but these things give me hope.
  • What about the peacemakers? The diplomats? Where is there peace?

    It is easier to find the warmongers.

    The state of mind that accompanies war is about division - not unity. Claiming to "win peace" - "liberate the oppressed" - "bring democracy" are code words in a collective madness but what they ultimately mean is "creating more enemies". As Ekhart Tolle has said (in paraphrase) "the war against anything is destined to fail". The message is that the toll of war has never been worth the gain.

    http://www.taphilo.com/history/war-deaths.shtml

    There is no honor in the "wars" George Bush gave the world in Iraq and Afghanistan. There can be no victory either. Just the perpetuation of an ageless desire for revenge and retaliation. Along the way we insure that petroleum supplies are guaranteed in the Persian Gulf and discover massive unmined deposits of gold, copper and other minerals in the mountains of Afghanistan. If "freedom" equals "resources" than the brave soldiers that think they are fighting for freedom have something to believe in and can discard that they have been hoodwinked.

    "Collateral damage", "atrocities", inexcusable deaths by "friendly fire", and the highest rate of military suicide in history due to depression and PTSD related grief, shame and guilt are tolerated as "the eggs needed to be broken to make an omelette".

    http://news.yahoo.com/soldier-detained-afghanistan-over-civilian-casualties-060915360.html
  • Attempting to bring this back on topic.

    Which is about those People that are "fighting" not in the sense of killing other, or physical confrontation, but trying to make the world a more peaceful place, tolerant, life equality, protecting the environment.... They are out there trying to do these thing with non-violent means so they aren't celebrated as being as important as those physically fighting, when they are every bit as important.


  • Not asked so often is what would the USA be without the peacemakers fighting for women's sufferage, fighting for race equality, fighting for the homeless person or the down and out addict, fighting simply for the goodness in people's hearts.
    .
    Yes, these stories should be in the media light, and should be celebrated... And the reference to the soldiers I believe is just to show an example of what level the "peacemakers" should be celebrated... soldiers could very well be included in "peacemakers" activities mentioned here, as anyone else. I don't think the point was to draw an exclusionary line.

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