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Your Story - The Decision to be a 10 Precept Buddhist

Has anyone here made the decision to follow the 10 precepts and thus decided against the life of a householder and has or has not joined a monastery. I think your Stories would be interesting to hear...

1.Refrain from killing living things.
2.Refrain from stealing.
3.Refrain from un-chastity (sensuality, sexuality, lust).
4.Refrain from lying.
5.Refrain from taking intoxicants.
6.Refrain from taking food at inappropriate times (after noon).
7.Refrain from singing, dancing, playing music or attending entertainment programs (performances).
8.Refrain from wearing perfume, cosmetics and garland (decorative accessories).
9.Refrain from sitting on high chairs and sleeping on luxurious, soft beds.
10.Refrain from accepting money

Comments

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    No...
    I don't think so, not here....
    (I dispute, in any case, the wording of number 3....)

    you may like to post your question here:

    http://www.dhammawheel.com/index.php

    there are several members who have taken vows, or ordained there....
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    No...
    I don't think so, not here....
    (I dispute, in any case, the wording of number 3....)
    These are the 10 vows for a lay practitioner who lives the life of a renunciate. The third precept in this case is rephrased to be against all sexual activity.
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    I've taken the 10 Zen precepts, which are similar but different.

    The first 5 precepts are pretty much universal throughout all Buddhist sects. Then there are another 5 after that. The next 5 in Zen is pretty unique to Zen. Below them is commentary on them by Bodhidharma and Zen Master Dogen.

    1. Not Killing.
    Bodhidharma: Self-nature is subtle and mysterious. In the realm of the everlasting Dharma, not giving rise to the ideal of killing is called the Precept of Not Killing.

    Dogen: The Buddha seed grows in accordance with not taking life. Transmit the life of Buddha’s wisdom and do not kill.

    2. Not Stealing
    Bodhidharma: Self-nature is subtle and mysterious. In the realm of the unattainable Dharma, not having thoughts of gaining is called the Precept of Not Stealing.

    Dogen: The self and things of the world are just as they are. The gate of emancipation is open.

    3. Not Misusing Sex
    Bodhidharma: Self-nature is subtle and mysterious. In the realm of the ungilded Dharma, not creating a veneer of attachment is called the Precept of Not Misusing Sex.

    Dogen: The Three Wheels are pure and clear. When you have nothing to desire, you follow the way of all Buddhas.

    4. Not Lying
    Bodhidharma: Self-nature is subtle and mysterious. In the realm of the inexplicable Dharma, not preaching a single word is called the Precept of Not Lying.

    Dogen: The Dharma Wheel turns from the beginning. There is neither surplus nor lack. The whole universe is moistened with nectar, and the truth is ready to harvest.

    5. Not Intoxicants
    Bodhidharma: Self-nature is subtle and mysterious. In the realm of the intrinsically pure Dharma, not giving rise to delusions is called the Precept of Not Giving or Taking Drugs.

    Dogen: Drugs are not brought in yet. Don’t let them invade. That is the great light.

    6. Not Discussing Faults of Others.
    Bodhidharma: Self-nature is subtle and mysterious. In the realm of the flawless Dharma, nor expounding upon error is called the Precept of Not Speaking of Faults of Others.

    Dogen: In the Buddha Dharma, there is one path, one Dharma, one realization, one practice. Don’t permit faultfinding. Don’t permit haphazard talk.

    7. Not Praising Yourself While Abusing Others
    Bodhidharma: Self-nature is subtle and mysterious. In the realm of the equitable Dharma, not dwelling upon I against you is called the Precept of Not Praising Yourself while Abusing Others.

    Dogen: Buddhas and Ancestral Teachers realize the empty sky and the great earth. When they manifest the noble body, there is neither inside nor outside in emptiness. When they manifest the Dharma body, there is not even a bit of earth on the ground.

    8. Not Sparing the Dharma Assets. (Generosity)
    Bodhidharma. Self-nature is subtle and mysterious. In the genuine, all- pervading Dharma, not being stingy about a single thing is called the Precept of Not Sparing the Dharma Assets.

    Dogen: One phrase, one verse–that is the ten thousand things and one hundred grasses; one dharma, one realization–that is all Buddhas and Ancestral Teachers. Therefore, from the beginning, there has been no stinginess at all

    9. Not Indulging in Anger
    Bodhidharma: Self-nature is subtle and mysterious. In the realm of the selfless Dharma, not contriving reality for the self is called the Precept of Not Indulging in Anger.

    Dogen: Not advancing, not retreating, not real, not empty. There is an ocean of bright clouds. There is an ocean of solemn clouds.

    10. Not Defaming the Three Treasures
    Bodhidharma: Self-nature is subtle and mysterious. In the realm of the One, nor holding nihilistic concepts of ordinary beings and sages is called the Precept of Not Defaming the Three Treasures.

    Dogen: The teisho of the actual body is the harbor and the weir. This is the most important thing in the world. Its virtue finds its home in the ocean of essential nature. It is beyond explanation. We just accept it with respect and gratitude.

    As for "My story". I really don't have one other than it's just a natural extension of practice and commitment to practicing.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    ...
    These are the 10 vows for a lay practitioner who lives the life of a renunciate. The third precept in this case is rephrased to be against all sexual activity.
    I appreciate that... but i was focusing on this part of the question -
    and thus decided against the life of a householder and has or has not joined a monastery
    and i don't think anyone here falls into that category... therefore the wording wouldn't apply to anyone here....
    AFAIK..... :)
  • SabreSabre Veteran
    Maybe someday, but in lay life it is quite hard to live without accepting money.. Think these people are even more rare than monks.
  • Not eating after noon? Not singing, dancing, or playing music?

    Are you kidding?
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    No, that is a monastic vow, and these are precepts also undertaken by those leading a lay life, but wishing to deepen their practice.

    what's your problem?
    don't you think a little dedication, self-sacrifice and commitment is a good thing?
  • 7 and 10 are pretty hard. I am not sure what 6 means.
  • 6. Not Discussing Faults of Others.
    Hmmmmmm
  • wouldnt life be very boring if you keep 10 precepts?
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    I haven't taken any of them as a vow but I do my best to live up to them.

    I limit sexual activity, I limit entertainments and distractions, I usually eat my last meal around 2 or 3 but occasionally have a small snack later ( a full stomach detracts from the ability to meditate well). As a man there isn't much social pressure to wear make-up or jewelery so that one is fairly easy, though I will shave and use deodorant and even a little gel in my hair. I do however have a comfy bed and enjoy the recliner and I don't think the bank would take to kindly to me not paying my mortgage so I do accept money but I don't make my life about the pursuit of it.
  • wouldnt life be very boring if you keep 10 precepts?
    WHat is bordom? A monkey mind jumping around trying to find something to cling to, so no it would not be, if kept well, it may help to bring peace and a strong mindset to deal with whatever life throws at you.

    I plan on ordaining, when I am ready. But I know myself enough that when I have an idea strong enough in the back of my mind that I will carry out at some point, I do it. It is rare I have such ideas, leaving my country and everyone/thing in it was one.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    wouldnt life be very boring if you keep 10 precepts?
    I would think observing the precepts would make you so mindful, it would occupy a lot of your time adhering to them... boring...?
    No, I certainly don't think so!

  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    edited March 2012
    wouldnt life be very boring if you keep 10 precepts?
    Yes it often is. But at the heart of Buddhism is in looking for our joy and happiness from within not from external, conditional things.

    Refraining from entertainments is a struggle as a lay person. But in retreat type atmospheres I've tasted some of the peace and happiness that is internally generated and its far better and more reliable. When the mind is filled with this feeling there is no room for boredom.
  • 6. Not Discussing Faults of Others.
    Hmmmmmm
    Ah I was looking at the first post.
  • Invincible_summerInvincible_summer Heavy Metal Dhamma We(s)t coast, Canada Veteran

    7.Refrain from singing, dancing, playing music or attending entertainment programs (performances).

    ...

    10.Refrain from accepting money
    I always wondered about #7... what's so hindering about these things? Also, what about chants that have a musical nature (as found in Chinese Buddhism, not sure about others)? I think I've also seen a video about Plum Village (Thich Nhat Hanh's pad, for those who don't know) where some nuns were dancing; in the BBC's "Seven Wonders of the Buddhist World," there was a Tibetan nun who was known for her beautiful singing voice.

    Also, in Asia, are monastics not supposed to attend festivals, even if they are Buddhist?


    As for #10, it's funny how things change in the modern world, or how modernity forces people to find loopholes. Since obviously many monastics in the developed world have to use money at some point, they use credit/debit cards instead of cash!
  • SabreSabre Veteran
    edited March 2012
    Not all monastries have the same precepts for the monks and nuns. Some are very strict, others not so much. There are monks who handle money, there are monks who sing and dance. There are monks that aren't even allowed to dig in the ground, teach people that carry an umbrella unless they are ill... or what other peculiar things have you in the full precepts. It all depends on the lineage of ordination.

    These 10 precepts are usually not for laypeople, except for retreat periods. Especially the one about the money may become more a hassle than actually useful, I can imagine.
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    Number 7 is an issue for developing concentration. When the senses are engaged in external activities they tend to reassert themselves in meditation making deep levels of concentration impossible. Also most of them, though not all, are based, at least in part, upon attachment, hatred, or any number of other harmful attitudes.
  • Invincible_summerInvincible_summer Heavy Metal Dhamma We(s)t coast, Canada Veteran

    These 10 precepts are usually not for laypeople, except for retreat periods. Especially the one about the money may become more a hassle than actually useful, I can imagine.
    Yup I know... hence my frequent use of the term "monastic."
    Number 7 is an issue for developing concentration. When the senses are engaged in external activities they tend to reassert themselves in meditation making deep levels of concentration impossible. Also most of them, though not all, are based, at least in part, upon attachment, hatred, or any number of other harmful attitudes.
    I guess one always has the danger of becoming 'attached' to singing, dancing, music, etc. But I don't see how they are "based, at least in part, upon... hatred or any number of other harmful attitudes."

    Again, what of the chanting that is musical in nature?
  • ZenBadgerZenBadger Derbyshire, UK Veteran
    I have taken these vows at the beginning of a retreat on several occasions, usually trying to keep them as much as possible after the retreat ends (until the paycheck at the end of the month anyway). Without a supportive community it is impossible to keep them completely as many monastic organisations have found out in the past. You just can't function in the west without handling money unless you delegate someone to handle the money for you, in which case; what is the difference?

    P.S. I'm just about to break number 8, I have been at work for 24 hours now and I'm not going to be popular without a bit of deodourant...
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    Number 7 is an issue for developing concentration. When the senses are engaged in external activities they tend to reassert themselves in meditation making deep levels of concentration impossible. Also most of them, though not all, are based, at least in part, upon attachment, hatred, or any number of other harmful attitudes.
    I guess one always has the danger of becoming 'attached' to singing, dancing, music, etc. But I don't see how they are "based, at least in part, upon... hatred or any number of other harmful attitudes."

    Again, what of the chanting that is musical in nature?
    I did say most, though not all. There probably aren't a whole lot that have hatred at their core apart from some heavy metal. I had attachment first there though and fulfilling our cravings is at the heart of modern consumer culture and is in most of the media.
  • Invincible_summerInvincible_summer Heavy Metal Dhamma We(s)t coast, Canada Veteran


    I did say most, though not all. There probably aren't a whole lot that have hatred at their core apart from some heavy metal. I had attachment first there though and fulfilling our cravings is at the heart of modern consumer culture and is in most of the media.
    Bear in mind I'm not trying to argue with you, but rather trying to flesh out the idea that music/singing/dancing/etc are prohibited for monastics/devout laypeople.

    Couldn't one argue that even death metal - although very aggressive in aesthetic - is a way of helping one "let go" of anger and hatred?

    I also don't understand the second half of your reply, sorry. Could you rephrase?
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    Bear in mind I'm not trying to argue with you, but rather trying to flesh out the idea that music/singing/dancing/etc are prohibited for monastics/devout laypeople.

    Couldn't one argue that even death metal - although very aggressive in aesthetic - is a way of helping one "let go" of anger and hatred?

    I also don't understand the second half of your reply, sorry. Could you rephrase?
    One could argue that metal does that. I would argue that it reinforces that attitude. TNH has said that the method of dealing with anger by hitting a pillow or something only reinforces anger. So I think the Buddhist attitude is that engaging in something like that may offer a temporary release, in the long run it reinforces the behavior. Also I made sure to say 'in part', so any of these entertainments aren't solely about a negative attitude.

    Consumer culture is driven by creating (through advertising) cravings and then offering us ways to fulfill them. Buying things and experiences is how the modern world (maybe the old world as well) has defined happiness. Buddhism says that true happiness lies beyond fulfilling our cravings.
  • edited March 2012
    If I am not mistaken, the OP's post is the 10 precepts for young/novice monk. It's not for lay person.
    Ten Wholesome actions for lay person:
    No Killing
    No Stealing
    No Committing Sexual Misconduct
    No False Speech
    No Divisive Speech
    No Harsh Speech
    No Idle Speech
    No Covetousness or Envy
    No Ill Will
    No Wrong View

  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    If I am not mistaken, the OP's post is the 10 precepts for young/novice monk. It's not for lay person.
    Ten Wholesome actions for lay person:
    No Killing
    No Stealing
    No Committing Sexual Misconduct
    No False Speech
    No Divisive Speech
    No Harsh Speech
    No Idle Speech
    No Covetousness or Envy
    No Ill Will
    No Wrong View

    Your source?

  • If I am not mistaken, the OP's post is the 10 precepts for young/novice monk. It's not for lay person.
    Ten Wholesome actions for lay person:
    No Killing
    No Stealing
    No Committing Sexual Misconduct
    No False Speech
    No Divisive Speech
    No Harsh Speech
    No Idle Speech
    No Covetousness or Envy
    No Ill Will
    No Wrong View

    Your source?


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samanera
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Precepts_(Buddhism)#Ten_Precepts


  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    If I am not mistaken, the OP's post is the 10 precepts for young/novice monk. It's not for lay person.
    Ten Wholesome actions for lay person:
    No Killing
    No Stealing
    No Committing Sexual Misconduct
    No False Speech
    No Divisive Speech
    No Harsh Speech
    No Idle Speech
    No Covetousness or Envy
    No Ill Will
    No Wrong View

    Those are the 10 negative actions of body, speech and mind. But you are partly right in that the 10 precepts from the OP are the vows of a novice monk. Normally if a lay person wants to take more precepts there are these 8.

    1.I undertake to abstain from causing harm and taking life (both human and non-human).
    2.I undertake to abstain from taking what is not given (for example stealing, displacements that may cause misunderstandings).
    3.I undertake to abstain from sexual activity.
    4.I undertake to abstain from wrong speech: telling lies, deceiving others, manipulating others, using hurtful words.
    5.I undertake to abstain from using intoxicating drinks and drugs, which lead to carelessness.
    6.I undertake to abstain from eating at the wrong time (the right time is after sunrise, before noon).
    7.I undertake to abstain from singing, dancing, playing music, attending entertainment performances, wearing perfume, and using cosmetics and garlands (decorative accessories).
    8.I undertake to abstain from luxurious places for sitting or sleeping, and overindulging in sleep.

    Usually these are only taken for one day or a few days at a time or while one is in retreat or intensive study.
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