Am I being too difficult on myself?

blackthorne

I'm new to the practice, and have been steadily reading my way along various discussions, books, and practice methods.

In my own meditation, I'm starting to wonder if I'm being too harsh on my own mind. The methodology that I've been following is to breathe in and out, focusing on the sensation of the breath against the nostrils (or on a simple chant at times), and counting 1-1, 2-2, etc up to 10 and then beginning again. During this time I try and pay attention to any stray thoughts that enter my mind, label them appropriately ("anxiety," "thinking about tomorrow," "what happened yesterday," etc) and then drop them away.

However I've also been - on the advice of a long-time practitioner - resetting my counting back to 1 every time one of those thoughts enters my head.

I'm not sure whether or not this is helping me. Doing it seems to turn getting anywhere above 3 or 4 into an ego game/competition with myself, and of course as soon as I do I rarely make it above 5 or 6 before thinking "I made it above 5 or 6!" which is itself something I tend to label and drop, since I'm concentrating on the process itself rather than just allowing myself to stand back from it all.

My question is - and I know there is no "right" answer to this - do you folks think I'm being too hard on myself here? Should I relax a bit and let myself count to 10 and keep labeling thoughts, or should I continue the more strict practice of refusing to allow myself to reach 10 unless I have a clear mind throughout, and battle the ego game that seems to arise from it?

Any thoughts/opinions appreciated. I recognize that this is not the way that some or even most may meditate, so suggestions as to other practices are welcome...this is just where I am, right now.

-Eric

Cinorjer

I'd suggest you stop actually counting for a while and instead use something like "Om" with each breath.

weighted

I think labeling thoughts is important, because then you'll see that this carries over into daily life.

In zazen, the "goal" isn't to get to 10 and you should try to get out of the mindset that you're "racing" against yourself or trying to get to a higher number before the thoughts arise.

Don't be harsh on yourself. Just breath. Count.

Pema Chodron says we shouldn't view any meditation practice as good or bad even though we all have them!

See her thoughts here: http://www.shambhala.org/teachers/pema/shenpa3b.php

weighted

And yes: as @Cinorjer says, maybe just try acknowledging the inhale and exhale by repeating "inhale" or "rising" and "exhale" or "falling" to yourself.

I do this rather than count myself as I prefer it.

person

The goal of meditation isn't to stop thoughts its to learn to not attach to them and get caught up. So starting counting over when a thought arises doesn't make any sense. I don't count breaths so I don't have experience in that regard but others do and its effective for a technique, my recommendation would be to go to 10 and start over every time regardless of thoughts that occur.

blackthorne

This is beautiful stuff - and all helpful. I'm going to stop going back to 1 with thoughts as @person is right - the goal isn't to stop thoughts altogether. And this is a great way of thinking about it.

Thank you all.

genkaku

@blackthorne -- Just another point of view: Continue to return to 1 each time there is an interruption on the way to ten or when you space out and find yourself inexplicably transported to 27. Just go back to one. Don't interfere by labeling thoughts. Just go back to 1.

As I say, just another point of view.

RichardH

Here is another alternative that is good for folks with ADHD.. which is everyone sometimes. Once you have found a stable posture, solid and grounded. Establish awareness of your whole body just sitting still. ....and remain whole and still. That stillness is the form. Keep that form... that is the discipline. Eyes will blink, the chest will rise and fall... thoughts will flow erratically here and there... You cannot control thought or feeling.. that would just be self-against-self. Let thoughts flap in the breeze all they need to.... and just keep the sitting form whole.

Your breath is just part of the picture..along with ambient sounds.. crappy feelings, or neutral feelings,.. or good feelings. Peaceful states or agitated states... it makes no difference . The whole shebang as-is..... Just keep the form, that is the underlying attention and container. Keeping the form makes room for everything , you have no choice about it anyway.


like I said this is a way for people who's heads would explode if they stared at the tip of their nose and counted breath.

blackthorne

@genkaku - I find the labeling thoughts helpful. Is there something in your practice that indicates that they aren't, or are you just suggesting a way for me to take it a bit easier? The labeling itself is not difficult for me, and helps keep me aware of the ways in which my brain desperately throws Bright Shiny Objects in front of me to stop me from focusing.

@RichardH - I can definitely see that helping on days where I'm scattered enough not to be able to focus even on the numbers for any length of time.

For the earlier posters --

So, tried not resetting the count last night and immediately felt the clarity and focus of meditation return.

I know this sounds sort of insane - "if you had it before and did something else that broke it, why did you continue doing that thing?" - but there's the ever-persistent fear that perhaps meditation is "going well" or "coming easy" at the time because you Aren't Doing It Right.

Thanks all for your input, and for helping me back on track.

genkaku

@genkaku - I find the labeling thoughts helpful. Is there something in your practice that indicates that they aren't, or are you just suggesting a way for me to take it a bit easier? The labeling itself is not difficult for me, and helps keep me aware of the ways in which my brain desperately throws Bright Shiny Objects in front of me to stop me from focusing.

@blackthorne -- I am aware that some find 'labeling thoughts' a useful practice. So ... pick your poison, just like the rest of us. But for my money, the act of 'labeling thoughts' is like trying to put out a fire by dousing it with gasoline: How can you 'label' a thought without nourishing another thought ... which then needs to be labeled ... etc.

No disrespect intended here, but it sounds to me like a dog chasing its tail with success always just out of reach... setting aside Bright Shiny Objects by employing Bright Shiny Objects.

I prefer breath-counting when choosing a compromise tool. Numbers don't shine and they are pretty good walking sticks.

lamaramadingdong

I simply say "thinking" when thoughts arise. It seems that labeling them beyond that just leads to more thinking. Don't get discouraged, even bad sitting is way better than none. It will come.

blackthorne

@genkaku no offense taken - the great thing about this is that we can all try and learn from each others methods.

I agree with you about ultimately needing to stop the labeling - and even labeling itself is an act of judgment based on perception and a constructed/fabricated ideas (and quickly-applied ones, at that). But for right now, the labeling helps me to identify what exactly is bothering me and keeping me from focus or practice. When I label, I find I can quickly discover "ohh, I'm anxious about tomorrow," and just realizing that seems to put the anxiety out of my head and enable me to purely focus...somehow realizing what the abstract problem is makes my brain shut up about it, at least for a little while.

For me, right now, it's about connecting why I do what I do with what I'm thinking - understanding my motivations to gain a more skillful set of behaviors, or at least one better aligned with my principles. I do believe that to reach many greater understandings I will have to much further refine my practice, but I do think the labeling is helping right now with my particular issue.

That said I fully intend to try what you suggest at some point (or perhaps the halfway-measure proposed by @lamaramadingdong - great nick, btw) and see where it can bring me. This has been an investigation and learning process for me, as I hope it will be for the rest of my life.

Zero

My question is - and I know there is no "right" answer to this - do you folks think I'm being too hard on myself here?

Should I relax a bit and let myself count to 10 and keep labeling thoughts, or should I continue the more strict practice of refusing to allow myself to reach 10 unless I have a clear mind throughout, and battle the ego game that seems to arise from it?

Any thoughts/opinions appreciated.

I recognize that this is not the way that some or even most may meditate, so suggestions as to other practices are welcome...this is just where I am, right now.

As you have already accepted that there is no 'right' answer and therefore no answer carries any more weight than an other then no answer will carry any weight unless the answer is from you and accepted by you (thereby eliminating the question!)

Instead of 'asking' try 'doing'... see what happens...

RichardH

@RichardH - I can definitely see that helping on days where I'm scattered enough not to be able to focus even on the numbers for any length of time.

How is keeping focused going? How long can you do it... what is a good length of time?

Tosh

It's a bit like exercising a muscle. Just keep on bringing your focus back to the breath, again, again, again, again, again, again, again, again...

I find that longer meditation sessions work better at calming the mind than short ones; it takes me about 30 minutes to settle down. I find that I have trouble with getting bored, so I try to watch the boredom, or my ankles start aching so I try to watch my pain.

It's not easy is it; just sitting!

blackthorne

@RichardH - I'm *right* at the beginning of my practice and battling an anxiety disorder is part of what I'm trying to do, so this may sound pitiful but...

3-4 mins or so, of good focus. Usually I'll start to get anxious for another minute or two after that, and then regain focus again for a longer period (5-6 mins, perhaps) - right now I'm just trying to get myself to get through 10-15 mins of meditation daily. It's a small start, and I may start to work in other types of practice - walking meditation, etc - to supplement. But the key thing for me is to ensure that I'm really doing it every day, rather than making a commitment to doing it for an hour and then only pulling that off once a week.

blackthorne

@Zero - understood and agreed...this was more of a "what do other people experience?" My own internal answer said "you're being too hard on yourself," but it never hurts to have a community of others with whom you can compare and contrast your experiences.

Yes, their viewpoints are no more or less valid than their own perceptions, but there is still value and wisdom to be found in one's community. I'm free to disregard all of this, but as it happens I've gotten some really great advice in this thread - advice that let me have the most productive session last night that I've had in 3-4 weeks.

@Tosh - it's not, and it's illuminating for those of us who like to think we're "in control!" But it also makes all the surrounding Dharma so much more meaningful...feeling the impermanence of both the thoughts and emotions, and even physical sensations...it's wild and exciting.

Tosh

@RichardH - I'm *right* at the beginning of my practice and battling an anxiety disorder is part of what I'm trying to do, so this may sound pitiful but...

3-4 mins or so, of good focus. Usually I'll start to get anxious for another minute or two after that, and then regain focus again for a longer period (5-6 mins, perhaps) - right now I'm just trying to get myself to get through 10-15 mins of meditation daily. It's a small start, and I may start to work in other types of practice - walking meditation, etc - to supplement. But the key thing for me is to ensure that I'm really doing it every day, rather than making a commitment to doing it for an hour and then only pulling that off once a week.

Just try to look at the anxiousness; put a bit of distance between it and 'you'; just watch it in a non judgemental way - don't try to 'run' from it or escape from it by thinking about something else - just look and watch, and note what happens.

In the mean time, careful you don't try to hard, 'cos you may conclude that meditation doesn't work and jack it all in. That would be a real shame.

And a brilliant book is Full Catastorophe Living by Jon Kabat-Zinn ph.D.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/0385303122/ref=sr_1_3_olp?ie=UTF8&qid=1332194856&sr=8-3&condition=used

Costs pennies if you buy it 2nd hand! It will help develop some faith in meditation, and guide you through the process; starting with body scanning to help develop concentration and relaxation and onwards.

And it's good for anyone, not just those suffering some catastrophe - but we're all going to have them; that's guaranteed; so I try to prepare when the going is good.