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In today's America we believe in nothing in moderation

vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
edited March 2012 in General Banter
I'm not posting the original article because I didn't feel it was that interesting, or that appropriate to our forum. But I thought the headline of Kathleen Parker's Op-Ed piece was an intriguing concept: "In today's America we believe in nothing in moderation".

Comments

  • Isn't America's de facto motto: "Go Big or Go Home?"
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    Marketing. Bigger is always better. (Except when it's not...;) )
  • I tend to disagree. Although it is popular to say that, there are lots of examples to the contrary. Fuel demand is down, people buy smaller more efficient cars when it is doable, bargain shopping, couponing, etc...
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    C'mon this IS moderation in America.

    image
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    C'mon this IS moderation in America.

    image
    Would you believe I have a very close friend who drinks 3-4 of those (diet coke) per day.

  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran

    Would you believe I have a very close friend who drinks 3-4 of those (diet coke) per day.

    Well I believe you but it really boggles the mind and its not something I would likely guess anyone would do. :wow:
  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
    Agreed! It's definitely getting even less moderate. For me, when I am on the road, I mostly see SUV's and Trucks, for example. Don't get me started with food!
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    If people are buying smaller, more fuel efficient cars, why are monster SUV's so popular? I've never understood the attraction of an SUV.
  • I've never understood the attraction of an SUV.
    Comfort.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    I've never understood the attraction of an SUV.
    Comfort.
    Utility. I bought a townhouse back in Northern Virginia quite a few years ago, a fixer upper. I had to rent trucks or pay for delivery of lots of stuff for the repairs and improvements. An SUV would have been ideal.

  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    edited March 2012
    I drive a little 4 cyl. manual pickup. It gets low to mid 20s in gas mileage and you can buy helper springs for like $70 that are easy to install and increase how heavy a load you can carry. Manual is pretty essential or there isn't much get up and go.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    A pickup truck was useless when I traveled.
  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
    If people are buying smaller, more fuel efficient cars, why are monster SUV's so popular? I've never understood the attraction of an SUV.
    How about ego and power control?
  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
    edited March 2012
    Comfort.

    Yup!
  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
    I've never understood the attraction of an SUV.
    Comfort.
    Utility. I bought a townhouse back in Northern Virginia quite a few years ago, a fixer upper. I had to rent trucks or pay for delivery of lots of stuff for the repairs and improvements. An SUV would have been ideal.

    What about renting?
  • I had to rent trucks or pay for delivery of lots of stuff for the repairs and improvements. An SUV would have been ideal.
    What about the other 99.9% of the time? It stupefies me the number of gigantoid SUVs and pickup trucks I see at stop lights with one person in them. On a good day going down hill just after a tune up they might be getting a little less than half the mileage I get, and we're both getting to our destinations equally well, and at the same time. I just laugh at the labels on them that say things like "Super Mega Ultra Off Road", knowing full well the vehicle's never seen anything more "off road" than a paved driveway. With gas at $4 and up, I just don't see how people justify them, not to mention the moral argument against the orgy of excessive consumption they represent.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    I had to rent trucks or pay for delivery of lots of stuff for the repairs and improvements. An SUV would have been ideal.
    What about the other 99.9% of the time? It stupefies me the number of gigantoid SUVs and pickup trucks I see at stop lights with one person in them. On a good day going down hill just after a tune up they might be getting a little less than half the mileage I get, and we're both getting to our destinations equally well, and at the same time. I just laugh at the labels on them that say things like "Super Mega Ultra Off Road", knowing full well the vehicle's never seen anything more "off road" than a paved driveway. With gas at $4 and up, I just don't see how people justify them, not to mention the moral argument against the orgy of excessive consumption they represent.
    I understand your view. You drive what you want, I'll drive what I want.

  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    What about minivans for comfort and utility? Why did people suddenly become crazed for truck-like vehicles? Just because the car dealers were promoting them?
  • Lady_AlisonLady_Alison Veteran
    edited March 2012
    Common in Texas. Gas is only 4$ a gallon. Most everyone here drive an suv. Or pick up.....can you say "diseal hemi"?
    Sure, only if i can say : "classic overcompensation for your weaner."
    I had to rent trucks or pay for delivery of lots of stuff for the repairs and improvements. An SUV would have been ideal.
    What about the other 99.9% of the time? It stupefies me the number of gigantoid SUVs and pickup trucks I see at stop lights with one person in them. On a good day going down hill just after a tune up they might be getting a little less than half the mileage I get, and we're both getting to our destinations equally well, and at the same time. I just laugh at the labels on them that say things like "Super Mega Ultra Off Road", knowing full well the vehicle's never seen anything more "off road" than a paved driveway. With gas at $4 and up, I just don't see how people justify them, not to mention the moral argument against the orgy of excessive consumption they represent.
  • Just to throw my little British 2 cents worth in there, I have never been to USA but when I still lived in the UK, the general notion was that things was bigger, louder and more extreme over there. People who had been there, friends of mine, told me a few things. But of course, I have never been so I would not know first hand.
  • C'mon this IS moderation in America.

    image
    Would you believe I have a very close friend who drinks 3-4 of those (diet coke) per day.

    That is one quick and easy way of getting diabeties.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    ^ Well, you can't get diabetes from diet soda, but I agree that in other ways it is terribly unhealthy.
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    Once someone with a 'real' truck commented on mine as like a toy. I didn't respond except to say something like, "It works for me," I don't remember. What I thought was something like, my truck gets good gas mileage, carries everything I need and doesn't cost that much up front, whereas you're lucky to get half as good mileage for what looks like a toolbox and a couple of 2x4's, since there's more truck there than you need for practical reasons you must have one that big for personal enjoyment, so it seems you have the toy.
  • ^ Well, you can't get diabetes from diet soda, but I agree that in other ways it is terribly unhealthy.
    oops, missed the diet part in your post :shake: my bad
  • Just to throw my little British 2 cents worth in there, I have never been to USA but when I still lived in the UK, the general notion was that things was bigger, louder and more extreme over there. People who had been there, friends of mine, told me a few things. But of course, I have never been so I would not know first hand.
    For some reason, this brought to mind a quote from that movie SLC Punk: "But one thing I do know is, we did harder, damn, we did it faster and we did it with more love, baby! And you can’t take that away from us!"

    But yeah, excessiveness pretty much defines Americana.
  • Invincible_summerInvincible_summer Heavy Metal Dhamma We(s)t coast, Canada Veteran
    Ironically, Epic Meal Time is from Canada... but otherwise Americans are definitely more excessive.

    Also, http://www.heartattackgrill.com/
  • LOL I mean seriously, where can you actually have something branded as 'heartattack grill' and it to be actually a thriving business.. They are not too discrete about the product but I am sure people swarm there daily.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    Moved to 'general Banter'...

    please be mindful of where you post, guys - go to the appropriate forum first, THEN start a 'new conversation'.... mmk? Thnx :)
  • ZeroZero Veteran
    $4 a gallon for petrol - its £1.40 a litre over here...!!

    This is the age of the self and worship of the self - one is encouraged to believe in nothing (but not so far as to promote anarchism) just enough to maintain spending on the self... it keeps the wheels turning and its certainly not limited to America...
  • CinorjerCinorjer Veteran
    edited March 2012
    Shall I play devil's advocate here?

    What do you expect from a consumer driven society? Also, don't confuse marketing with the average consumer's choices, or point to a fringe population and claim that defines the average person.

    For instance, unlike smaller nations, we're captive to our autos for normal life unless we live in a big city, and even there "budget cuts" are eliminating the bus for many of those lucky citizens. If you actually look at the cars on the road, most of them are compacts, especially the newer cars. So do we snear at the big boats left on the road? There are lots of people stuck driving older gas guzzlers because they can't afford to trade up, and in the past we were pretty much stuck buying big cars (the small cars were cheaply made and cheaply sold). We're not stupid. We wouldn't pay a hundred bucks to fill up a tank every week if we had the income and down payment for something better.

    And of course, if you're in farming country or run a business, or have a big family, you need that bigger vehicle. Should the owner of the van have a sign that says, "Yes, it's just me going to the store alone in this beast today, but I have four kids at home that usually fill the seats!"

    So let's talk about marketing. If you're trying to sell something, you want to attract more buyers and stand out from the competition. You can cut the price, but the whole idea is to make more profit. So a favorite marketing gimik is to make the product bigger. Bigger portions on the plate. Most of the cost of running a restaurant comes from the building and turning on the kitchen burners and paying the staff. Putting a few extra ounces of meat on your plate or another spoonful of mashed potatoes is pennies once the they get you into the seat.

    So bigger servings. I can't finish a meal in a restaurant anymore. Free refills. You do realize that's about a dime's worth of soda water and syrup in that huge gulp jug, right? Do you know the plastic cup costs as much as the contents, and stations have to count the cups while nobody cares how much soda is dispensed?

    Anyway, it's amazing how marketing works. On the other hand, marketing something as "going green" now is a big thing. But in my experience, the stupid suits in the boardroom don't know how to change and will keep doing the same old thing until their customers leave for new companies that satisfy comsumer demand. That's what had to happen with the US auto industry.



  • @Cinorjer thank you for the voice of reason.
  • The first thing comes into my mind is obesity. It's a big problem for NA.
    It consumes much natural resources to produce that problem. It's the source of many chronic diseases.

    I don't indulge in food.I eat fix portion of unprocessed food every day. I don't eat out and don't eat junk food. After 10 years moving to NA, my weight stays pretty much the same: BMI ratio is 20. They say: I am too skinny. Skinny or not is not a standard for healthy weight, it's a perception. I read a report that the standard for normal weight has trended higher compared to 50 years ago.





  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
    Shall I play devil's advocate here?

    What do you expect from a consumer driven society? Also, don't confuse marketing with the average consumer's choices, or point to a fringe population and claim that defines the average person.

    For instance, unlike smaller nations, we're captive to our autos for normal life unless we live in a big city, and even there "budget cuts" are eliminating the bus for many of those lucky citizens. If you actually look at the cars on the road, most of them are compacts, especially the newer cars. So do we snear at the big boats left on the road? There are lots of people stuck driving older gas guzzlers because they can't afford to trade up, and in the past we were pretty much stuck buying big cars (the small cars were cheaply made and cheaply sold). We're not stupid. We wouldn't pay a hundred bucks to fill up a tank every week if we had the income and down payment for something better.

    And of course, if you're in farming country or run a business, or have a big family, you need that bigger vehicle. Should the owner of the van have a sign that says, "Yes, it's just me going to the store alone in this beast today, but I have four kids at home that usually fill the seats!"

    So let's talk about marketing. If you're trying to sell something, you want to attract more buyers and stand out from the competition. You can cut the price, but the whole idea is to make more profit. So a favorite marketing gimik is to make the product bigger. Bigger portions on the plate. Most of the cost of running a restaurant comes from the building and turning on the kitchen burners and paying the staff. Putting a few extra ounces of meat on your plate or another spoonful of mashed potatoes is pennies once the they get you into the seat.

    So bigger servings. I can't finish a meal in a restaurant anymore. Free refills. You do realize that's about a dime's worth of soda water and syrup in that huge gulp jug, right? Do you know the plastic cup costs as much as the contents, and stations have to count the cups while nobody cares how much soda is dispensed?

    Anyway, it's amazing how marketing works. On the other hand, marketing something as "going green" now is a big thing. But in my experience, the stupid suits in the boardroom don't know how to change and will keep doing the same old thing until their customers leave for new companies that satisfy comsumer demand. That's what had to happen with the US auto industry.



    I likey! The whole green movement is an interesting idea, however, not sure about how much of it is "real." Instead of how much of it is money/greed and marketing.
  • I read today that Ford is releasing the Shelby Mustang 1000... that's a conservative 950 hp out the door, and a 1,100hp with an easy racing tune.

    So what is the point? Anything above 500hp is a waste, because if your point is to get from point A to point B the quickest, then traction problems will prevent that from happening. I doubt there is anyone that has witnessed the top speed of a Shelby 500 on a public road, so what are you going to do with an additional 500hp?

    But we are conditioned to look at the numbers and greedily think that more is better, and owning more puts you one up on your neighbor, whether that "more" actually does anything for you or not.
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited March 2012
    If you actually look at the cars on the road, most of them are compacts, especially the newer cars.
    That's not what I see where I live. I see SUV's that are getting bigger and bigger, so much so that some have trouble fitting into parking spaces. I see Hummers, even, Volvo wagons, Toyota Priuses for the environ crowd. Few compacts, but lots of 10-15-year old Toyota mid-size cars, that are very cheap to buy and last for years.
    There are lots of people stuck driving older gas guzzlers because they can't afford to trade up, and in the past we were pretty much stuck buying big cars (the small cars were cheaply made and cheaply sold).
    "Cash for Clunkers" did a good job of addressing this.
    We're not stupid.
    I'm not so sure, lol! Back in the 90's and early 2000's, many people took out second mortgages to get in on the SUV fad. They went on a spending spree. But why SUV's? I still don't see the attraction, compared to minivans, if people want haulage capacity and comfort. More on this under "marketing". Anyway, these people who took out 2nd mortgages to buy expensive toys got stuck holding the bag when the bottom fell out of the mortgage business. Some lost their homes. How smart is it to get yourself in debt up to the hilt just to buy gas-guzzling cars?
    So let's talk about marketing.
    Yes, let's. The American public was sold on trucks passing as cars because a tax loophole was created that allowed import of certain types of trucks that were categorized as cars for tax purposes. So the auto importers went whole hog on those, then did a big propaganda campaign to convince the public these were desirable vehicles. Until then, people were happy with spacious minivans (lightweight, used less gas) for carrying families, and anything else they needed to haul. The American public fell for the marketing, and hasn't quit as far as I can tell. It's not that difficult to convince a large number of people not only to spend against their own interests, but to vote against them, as poor and working-class voting records against allocation of resources to help create jobs and beef up services aimed at them have shown.

  • I'm guilty... I bought my first SUV last year, but I have no regrets, this is the best vehicle I have ever purchased. I'm hoping to hang on to this one as long as I can afford the gas.

    My rational for buying it was that I'm 6' 6", so there are numerous cars I just can not comfortably drive, some I can't safely drive, and even some that I can't drive period. I have three family members to tote around (my son is about as tall as I am), and some of our favorite activities involve going to the beach or other places that may require driving off the pavement. The back is super handy for groceries, or beach and camping gear, and it drives wonderfully.

    I am hopeful though that I will see electric, or other alternate energy cars take over the market in my lifetime... we have actually made a lot of progress in the last few years. I actually saw my first public parking spots with power cables a couple weeks ago, reserved for electric cars... and the Nissan Leaf seems to be a popular car around here.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    I'm guilty... I bought my first SUV last year, but I have no regrets, this is the best vehicle I have ever purchased. I'm hoping to hang on to this one as long as I can afford the gas.

    My rational for buying it was that I'm 6' 6", so there are numerous cars I just can not comfortably drive, some I can't safely drive, and even some that I can't drive period. I have three family members to tote around (my son is about as tall as I am), and some of our favorite activities involve going to the beach or other places that may require driving off the pavement. The back is super handy for groceries, or beach and camping gear, and it drives wonderfully.

    I am hopeful though that I will see electric, or other alternate energy cars take over the market in my lifetime... we have actually made a lot of progress in the last few years. I actually saw my first public parking spots with power cables a couple weeks ago, reserved for electric cars... and the Nissan Leaf seems to be a popular car around here.
    Good for you, Telly. Although I am back to a sedan now, I had an SUV for several years and loved it. And if someone doesn't like it, none of their business. It's still a free country.

    The one thing I didn't like about my SUV was feeling things in the back were less secure than in a trunk.

  • Just to throw my little British 2 cents worth in there, I have never been to USA but when I still lived in the UK, the general notion was that things was bigger, louder and more extreme over there. People who had been there, friends of mine, told me a few things. But of course, I have never been so I would not know first hand.
    For some reason, this brought to mind a quote from that movie SLC Punk: "But one thing I do know is, we did harder, damn, we did it faster and we did it with more love, baby! And you can’t take that away from us!"

    But yeah, excessiveness pretty much defines Americana.
    OMG I love that movie!! Not that we need to pump up everything but there were some things in that movie that I basically lived. And no, I won't tell you what.

    On the SUV thing, they don't need to be big to do this but I have a reason the closest I will drive to a sedan is my subaru. I have lived in the mountains of Colorado, it is where I would make my first choice to live, and no one is gonna rescue me if it snows out of nowhere or I am stupid. So I get just as irritated at the large SUV's in the city without any dirt on them. Really, they may have the SUV but I will tell you one bad snow storm and they are personally as helpless as everyone else. It is one thing to get what you need and know you will take care of yourself in an emergency and another to fill the giant vehicle with TV screens instead of survival gear

    (yes I have a first aid kit, jumper cables, bottled water and an emergency blanket in my subaru)
  • ..in the UK, the general notion was that things was bigger, louder and more extreme over there.
    You pretty much nailed it. Big, loud, extreme - aka the US of A.
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    Big, loud, extreme - aka the US of A.
    That's what the Canucks say, according to my Canuck friends. Add "unruly" to the list, too.

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