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Nationalistic Delusions
RichardH
Veteran
An opposition party here in Canada just had a leadership convention, and I was listening to some of the speeches..oh boy.. It got me thinking about nationalism and how cultish it is. It is the official cult of all countries, employing tear evoking myths, and paranoia.
No nation declares ... "We are number two!". Not long ago we had dinner with some folks who are visiting from France. They do not spend much time outside of France, and have been immersed mostly in their national media. During our conversation they said they were surprised to see that France was not constantly in the news here. They thought France was the center of the world. When I stand in a field and turn around in a circle...it certainly looks to me like I am at the center of the world... and nations are no different. It is also so strange how nations are so proud of their natural features, "purple mountain majesty", and so forth.... oblivious the the fact that those features predate the arbitrary drawing of boundries around them by billions of of years. National boundaries are like light bending lenses. George Carlin did a routine where he talked about how other people's farts smelled repulsive, but our own can "kinda smell o.k". Our cultural idiosyncrasies feel "right", and are the measure of all other cultures. On the other hand, regardless of what nation we live in, our country is believed to have the following unique characteristics : We ...."are brave" ....."are hard working" ....."love to celebrate life" .... "cherish family" ..." are generous" ..."have boundless energy" ... "stand for the highest values" .... "are stalwart defenders of (........)" ....... "have the amazing ability to re-invent ourselves" ......."are a light.. a beacon" ...etc etc. In other words basic universal human values are seen to be our special national characteristic.. what makes us French, or American, or Canadian, or Australian, or ..you name it. It is really quite insane. Politicians know this...and we lap it up.
No nation declares ... "We are number two!". Not long ago we had dinner with some folks who are visiting from France. They do not spend much time outside of France, and have been immersed mostly in their national media. During our conversation they said they were surprised to see that France was not constantly in the news here. They thought France was the center of the world. When I stand in a field and turn around in a circle...it certainly looks to me like I am at the center of the world... and nations are no different. It is also so strange how nations are so proud of their natural features, "purple mountain majesty", and so forth.... oblivious the the fact that those features predate the arbitrary drawing of boundries around them by billions of of years. National boundaries are like light bending lenses. George Carlin did a routine where he talked about how other people's farts smelled repulsive, but our own can "kinda smell o.k". Our cultural idiosyncrasies feel "right", and are the measure of all other cultures. On the other hand, regardless of what nation we live in, our country is believed to have the following unique characteristics : We ...."are brave" ....."are hard working" ....."love to celebrate life" .... "cherish family" ..." are generous" ..."have boundless energy" ... "stand for the highest values" .... "are stalwart defenders of (........)" ....... "have the amazing ability to re-invent ourselves" ......."are a light.. a beacon" ...etc etc. In other words basic universal human values are seen to be our special national characteristic.. what makes us French, or American, or Canadian, or Australian, or ..you name it. It is really quite insane. Politicians know this...and we lap it up.
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Comments
-Bumper sticker wisdom
Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for our neighbors in Manitoba. There is a saying in Ontario.. Never trust a Manitoban who's eyebrows meet in the middle.. he he he.
sorry.. in a loopy mood.
:dunce:
If I came from Japan, of course I would be a "national treasure." As it is, I come live in Massachusetts, the very foundation of the unexcelled, democratic, rugged and individualistic (just ask us!) U.S. of A.
@RichardH -- The great and probably only lesson we can learn from the mistakes we see is: Don't YOU do that.
TBH I like Toronto better as a city, but some of people I've met are a bit self-absorbed. And the fact that your mayor is who he is is pretty appalling. And the transit is straight out of the '60s. But it's a really cool city.
Being a citizen of a nation is a two way road. I expect them to take care of me, in turn I render my services to help improve anything I can. These days everything is in extremes... nations expect their people to give everything, and the people expect their nation to take care of everything. Both are relying solely on the other but neither of them are really doing anything (generally speaking) so everyone is at fault. I don't care how nationalistic a country is, so long as it does right by its people and has fair foreign policy. But I realize that is way too much to ask these days.
And admit it, the Romans had style. Shiny legions marching in perfect formation, horns blaring and armor clanging. Sturdy yet elegant architecture some of which still stands today. They brought peace and prosperity to a wide area of the ancient world, as well as developed many technologies that made life easier. Were they perfect? hell no. Absolute power corrupts absolutely, it seems. At least they had the sense to stab the shit out of anyone in the government who seemed to be mucking up things too badly. A policy I feel the U.S. should maintain. They were nationalistic... but they did a lot of good, too.
With the war against Spartacus and the slaves, approximately 7,000 were crucified -- one of the more minor incidents.
As one source put it: "then the decline and fall of the West Roman Empire killed about three million people directly -- and many millions (5M?) indirectly..."
I suggest you go to http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/romestat.htm and reassess your praise of the Roman Empire.
But hey, if we're not on their news we're probably in their country anyways.
@Zayl -- Yes, the Romans built the aqueducts and Hitler built the autobahn.
Old fashioned imperialism always includes the sincere desire to spread God's gift of our amazing civilization to inferior peoples... even if their own civilization is 3000 years old and they have seen the likes of us come and go a thousand times.
And now that you mention it, where does Canada get their oil, if the US and China are sewing up the world's supplies between them?
Is the Alberta oil liquid crude, or tar sands, requiring lots of processing? I don't think Canada is energy-independent, producing all, or even most, of the oil it needs, is it?
(Sorry, OP, for the digression.)
The tar sands are just that, vast reserves of tar sands. Gigantic Mordor-like developments divert rivers to boil the earth and release a slurry.... that we will pipe to you.
Thanks for your honesty, @RichardH. My two Canadian friends tend to be very patriotic, and negative about the US, so it's hard to get a realistic view.
Obviously I'm simplifying quite a bit, but my point is that I think there are lots of things to appreciate as a Canadian citizen.
Now THAT's scary.
How does University tuition work in Canada?
Hahaha in Canada our nationalism so easily disintegrates into hockey squabbling - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let's_All_Hate_Toronto
But seriously - The YVR and T.Dot need to come together now more than ever.
As for Alberta, perhaps the Buddha would say we must love those we are frustrated with most of all.
It is fairly easy to see why people have such big misconceptions when you see how governments go about their business, when you live in a country under a ruling power it is quite easy to be mislead with all of the media being bombarded at you daily. It takes some curiosity and thinking outside of the box to explore the rest of the world and to see things for how they really are.
@Invincible_summer now that is a scary thought indeed. I see it quite often on video sharing sites in the coments where people will literally go to verbal warfare over somebody saying something about a country. It does tend to bring out the worse in people, we are after all a tribal species. If you can get people on sides to defend something, they will do so with quite a bit of passion. At the end of the day, there really isn't anything to fight over in such cases.
I guess it's sort of the opposite of the UHC issue in the US, where it seems (to me) that lots of people (or at least people with power) feel UHC is an affront to "American values." In Canada, I think taking away UHC would be seen as an affront to our "Canadianness" (whatever that means), and it would cause an enormous uproar.
2) University tuition for Canadian citizens is primarily subsidized by the provincial governments, then the federal government, then tuition fees and research grants/private donations (the sciences and business schools get lots of these) - if you're an international student, you don't get any subsidy. If you're not a citizen, it can cost well over $10k/year to study in Canada. Funnily enough, I've met a few American students who came here to study because they said it's still cheaper than the American uni they were planning to attend.
For citizens, university tuition is usually around $2k - $6k per year, depending on the university (I'm not sure why it varies so much... I guess it depends on research and federal funding). Interestingly, in Quebec (the Francophone province), if you're not from Quebec but still a Canadian citizen, you have to pay more (it varies, but I think around $500-$1k more per year? Not sure) to attend their universities.
The thing about getting into a Canadian college from the US, is that you can't do it right out of HS. As in Europe, they require you to have a 13th year of HS, which means you have to go to college in the US for a year before applying to a Canadian college as a Freshman. I tried it once.
I didn't know that about Americans attending Canadian unis actually. Did you happen to apply to an Ontario university? I know Ontario (and maybe other provinces) used to have a grade 13 for high school (I think they scrapped it a few years ago to be more standardized w/ the rest of Canada), but here in BC they surely don't.