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yet so many cling to the illusion that weight loss is possible for most fat people. How disappointing.
Peace, Shannon
Are you saying weight loss is not possible for most 'fat people'? Why?
I am an alcoholic (sober), so have experience of feeling compelled to drink alcohol, every day, day-in-day-out; even though it was killing me and I knew it. I guess over eating can be like that.
Free will? Nope. Conditional 'free' will? Yes. I was shown by A.A. how to create the causes and conditions so that I could exercise my will and overcome my drinking problem. They were positive, and told me I could, if I followed a few simple (not easy) instructions. I followed, it worked, I'm sober.
I think it's sad that someone is saying that it's impossible for 'fat people' to lose weight. I find that disappointing. I'm glad recovered alcoholics don't spread the same message; that something is 'impossible'.
I personally find the message this 'fat person' sends hugely inspiring:
Tosh, The difference between alcoholism and obesity is that alcoholism is a behavior and obesity is not. Obesity can be a symptom of behavior (such as unhealthy diet and lack of exercise) or it can be a side effect of medication (anti-depressants and steroids have well-documented weight gain side effects) or caused by stress, poverty or about a thousand other contributing factors. A more accurate analogy would be to compare obesity to yellow teeth.
Some people have yellow teeth because they smoke cigarettes, and therefore it can be an indication of an unhealthy habit. Others are born with teeth that are prone to yellowing. But you can't tell by looking at someone's teeth if they smoke or not. What you want to encourage people to do is to take up healthy behaviors. Those healthy behaviors may lead to weight loss and they may not, but people act as though weight loss is proof of healthy behaviors and it isn't.
Why isn't it? Well, the best answer I can give is to refer you to the work of Dr. Jeffrey Friedman, who discovered leptin in 1994. Up until Friedman's discovery, people thought fat was just a storage locker for energy and nothing more. Friedman proved for the first time that adipose tissue is an endocrine organ that produces leptin, a hormone which regulates appetite. There is no known hormone that regulates alcoholism. There is no homeostatic system that wants you to maintain a certain blood alcohol content. There may be some interaction with the pleasure centers, which has a similar relationship to the response many people have to food, but weight is a highly regulated system and the body works hard to prevent weight loss. If you have time, I recommend this video which features Dr. Friedman explaining the role of leptin:
Do not mistake my message for apathy or complacency. No, most fat people will not be able to become thin people, but any fat person can become a healthy person if they engage in healthy lifestyle choices (though there are some exceptions there as well pertaining to the genetic influence of cholesterol, blood pressure and diabetes). Exercise and a healthy balanced diet can have a powerful effect on our health, but the one thing it has proven ineffective for is long-term, large-scale weight loss.
The research is there if you don't believe me. And if you don't believe the research, then there's not much I can do or say to persuade you then, is there.
Tosh, The difference between alcoholism and obesity is that alcoholism is a behavior and obesity is not. Obesity can be a symptom of behavior (such as unhealthy diet and lack of exercise) or it can be a side effect of medication (anti-depressants and steroids have well-documented weight gain side effects) or caused by stress, poverty or about a thousand other contributing factors. A more accurate analogy would be to compare obesity to yellow teeth.
Hi Shannon,
Alcoholism is also a 'symptom'. For an alcoholic, drinking is a solution to a deeper problem, and that's the way they feel when they're stone cold sober. Feelings create intentions (this is Buddhist psychology) and intentions create actions. Not only that, these actions condition intentions; we do something we find we enjoy, and our mind remembers that for the next time. This creates habit patterns, and the longer they go on for the deeper the habit patter groove becomes. It seems almost impossible to break the cycle sometimes; but it is not impossible at all.
I suspect that developing a pattern of overeating grows like this; it kinda strikes me that some people use food as a drug; to change the way they're feeling. Feeling - intention - action.
And then you go on to describe what is basically Buddhist dependant arising; there is no single cause of an event, but every phenomena will have a main cause and contributing causes too. I do whole heartedly agree that there will be factors that make weight loss tougher for some than others; but my post was in disagreement with Atchka's post where he/she said weight loss for some people was 'impossible'; that I disagree with and feel it maybe detrimental to someone who is looking for ways to lose weight.
I don't think being overweight is a moral problem, just as I don't think alcoholism is a moral problem either. We don't have complete and utter free will; even neuroscience seems to say that; so it can't be moral. Neither am I judging, but I am someone who has struggled with 'addictions' with my drinking and smoking (both of which I do not do now), and I think I understand some of the issues.
And whilst I can't give some specific advice about how to lose weight for someone who overeats, I can say that some problems can't be tackled 'head on'. It's very difficult for an alcoholic to say, "Right, that's it, I will never drink again!" and then adhere to that. At some stage, for reasons which I won't go into ('cos I'll bore you), they will probably fail. Will power only gets us so far, but in itself is not much use (my experience here). When it comes to breaking deeply ingrained habit patterns, we have to be smart and tackle them 'sideways'. We need a plan!
I used Alcoholics Anonymous's 12 Steps; that was my 'plan', but I do have a friend in Overeater's Anonymous and they use the same 12 Steps; exactly the same program that helps alcoholics, helps over eaters. I understand how this can work. In Buddhism I'm taught that Boddichitta should be the motivation for everything we do; compassion for others, and guess where the 12 Steps puts it's emphasis on recovery? Yep, you may have guessed it; compassion for others. Alcoholics stay sober by helping other alcoholics to stay sober.
There is a lot of power in compassion for others and who would've guessed that we can solve a personal problem, like alcoholism or over eating, by focusing on having compassion for others? If you watched that video I put up, the bloke that did the running and went from massive to skinny; one of his chief motivators was the love he had for his niece with that breathing illness.
And that's what I love about the spiritual path; it's so counter intuitive sometimes that it makes me smile.
People act as though weight loss is proof of healthy behaviors and it isn't.
Do not mistake my message for apathy or complacency. No, most fat people will not be able to become thin people, but any fat person can become a healthy person if they engage in healthy lifestyle choices (though there are some exceptions there as well pertaining to the genetic influence of cholesterol, blood pressure and diabetes).
Exercise and a healthy balanced diet can have a powerful effect on our health, but the one thing it has proven ineffective for is long-term, large-scale weight loss.
Given that 'healthy' is a very broad spectrum, it seems the proposition that (within biological limits) 'a fat person can become a healthy person if they engage in healthy lifestyle choices' - is always satisfied - it is correct as a statement of fact but it seems to sidestep the specific issue pertaining to 'fat'.
The specific issue is the health detriments (perhaps also enjoyment of life detriments) from being 'fat' - I accept that 'fat' in itself is subjective so for present purposes let us assume that the mean average is the 'ideal health position' - this is a rough guesstimate however as good health is determined by the broad average health condition (i.e. you're not in bad health if you dont live to be 300 as average life expectancy is determined on global averages) then it's not an unrealistic position.
The conclusion as to the studies also sidesteps the issue - exercise and a healthy balanced diet are undoubtedly effective in any term (long or short) - it is peoples' inability (through fault or otherwise) to be consistent in employing these behaviours that means exercise and a healthy balanced diet may fail in the long term.
The issue therefore is how exercise and a healthy diet are employed - how people relate to themselves both in self-image and actual health and where this is placed on the spectrum of important things in life - currently, this is driven broadly by 'markets' and 'profit' rather than a realistic approach to exercise and healthy diet to avoid the detriments of yo-yoing (which would likely be worse than just staying at a weight and exercising regularly even if that is 'fat').
There is no easy solution - I see the benefit of a supportive approach advocated by you - I agree that people should not be judged by their appearance and each of us should be free to live our lives - if you're happy with yourself then more power to you - that said, there is an inherent danger in empowering people to hide from all the options.
In UK we have exams at 16 called GCSE's - graded A-E - there are 2 exams for each subject - 1 exam has a maximum mark of C - the 2nd has additional points that lead to an A max but it is tougher - the practice has grown that those who are perceived as having less ability are entered for exam 1 only (so they are limited to a C) whereas if you have more ability you take both and have a chance at an A... for the school it is good sifting the abilities as it affects their ranking on league tables (and funding etc).
Your proposition as articulated here sounds to me like settling for the 'C' exam - I am not taking anything away from it just that people should know that there are other options and grades and that with will, determination and courage an A is a real possibility - if that floats your boat of course.
Tosh, Once again, you are resorting to assumptions about fat people. One of the indicators of alcoholism is drinking to excess, but obesity is not always an indication of "overeating." And furthermore, our understanding of leptin demonstrates that the concept of "overeating" is based on a false assumption that there is one caloric amount that ALL people should be eating and that anyone who eats more than that amount is "overeating." Appetite, hunger, and satiety are all genetically determined, and there are natural variations. Our genetic predisposition to a certain weight set point determines our body's caloric requirements, which in turn determines the amount of calories it takes to satisfy our hunger. We see this demonstrated in children who crave sugar until they're bones stop growing. It seems that our bodies send out signals to acquire a certain amount of calories to fulfill its job of development.
A more adequate comparison to alcoholism would be binge eating disorder (BED). BED occurs in 2-5% of the population, while just a quarter of morbidly obese adults have BED. But even if you believe that this is a case of under-reporting or insufficient samples, there is yet another explanation for "overeating" that researchers are well aware of, but society generally ignores: weight cycling, or yo-yo dieting.
Although the exact effects that weight cycling has on our metabolic indicators is still being sussed out in research, what has been widely accepted is that severe weight cyclers have a greater incidence of both long-term weight gain and cardiovascular mortality. I discuss the issue in depth in this post. What frequently happens in our society is that children who are naturally heavier are put onto weight loss diets while they are still developing, even though they may be perfectly healthy (most pediatricians recommend monitoring a child's growth trajectory, rather than a single weigh-in... if a child is born in the 95th percentile and grows consistently in the 95th percentile, that may be that child's natural size). So, the parent restricts that child's calories, the child is hungry but forced to resist this natural urge until they end up either binging on calorically dense foods or hiding food from the parent. This is what is known among eating disorder specialists as the restriction/disinhibition cycle.
People can only resist their hunger for so long, and when they finally snap, they go off the deep end. And because they have put so much work into losing weight, rather than simply focusing on healthy behaviors, they see this "snapping" as a failure and give up all the healthy behaviors, regaining the weight and causing metabolic damage in the process. And so they return to the weight loss well time and time again, each time pushing their weight a little higher once the weight loss attempt fails. And we have been encouraging fatties to use caloric restriction since the 1970s, about the same time that we began to see a rise in obesity rates. The call to dieting is just one of many, MANY cultural convergences that took place between 1970 and 2000, which have contributed to the shift in obesity rates. But the only ones we focus on are the changes in our food system and the sedentary nature of office work. But the issue is far more complicated than a bunch of fat people who can't control themselves, and when you simplify the issue into those terms, you are insulting a lot of people who remain fat in spite of having a perfectly healthy relationship with food and exercise.
Stop making assumptions about why fat people are fat. You don't know, you never will know, and by acting as though you do, you are engaging in stereotypes, which is harmful, even in those occasional instances when they're true.
Zero, Our society has been promoting the A exam of weight loss for 40 years now, in all its various forms. Yes, there are fad diets, but ask any fat person and they can tell you about the "permanent" healthy lifestyle changes they made because they were assured it would lead to weight loss if they just stuck with it. Health at Every Size is not a C exam. It is a totally different test all together. The exam paradigm you mention bases its grades on how much weight you lose, what your BMI is and, generally speaking, the size of your ass. HAES grades you on the outcomes that really matter: blood pressure, blood lipids, blood sugars, cardiorespiratory fitness, strength, endurance, and general well-being.
In several randomized controlled trial, subjects were divided into usual care (nutritionist teaching them healthy weight loss techniques) and a HAES group. The usual care group lost weight and improved their metabolic indicators initially, but at the end of the year most returned to baseline weight (and some gained slightly more) along with the improvements in blood pressure, lipids and sugars. Meanwhile, the HAES group maintained a stable weight AND maintained lower metabolic numbers. These are the numbers that really matter and unlike the usual care method, which typically employs some form of caloric restriction, HAES is sustainable throughout a lifetime, making it superior to the kinds of temporary lifestyle changes that people make in the pursuit of what is ultimately an arbitrary weight loss goal.
Healthy behaviors determine health, not weight, and unless we begin to appreciate that simple fact as a society, we will continue to see these elevated obesity rates.
One of the problems with leptin, is that it's greatly affected by the body's hormonal state-which is greatly affected by having certain diseases such as diabetes, by diet, by activity level, and by many other factors. WHAT you eat is as important as how much you eat. It's not as simple as calories in and calories out for everyone. The hormonal state of the body actually has more to do with overall health than just what you eat. It's a vicious circle, but the only way to gain control and get leptin and other hormones is to not only be active but to eat the right foods, namely foods low on the Glycemic Index.
Leptin is one of the things I frequently see people blame for the state of their body, and it is one of the key factors. But it is NOT one of the factors you have no control over. Hormone and cellular states in the body are greatly, and easily, influenced by the type of food you eat. It is most definitely true that some people become overweight because of medications and other factors. But it still doesn't make being overweight or obese, healthy. Can someone who is obese be more healthy in certain measurement than an unhealthy thin person? Yes. That doesn't mean they ARE healthy though.
I am sure there are obese and overweight people who are fairly healthy, depending how you measure health. However, I don't think they are the norm. Not a single one of the overweight and obese people (including myself when I was overweight) was healthy, but fat. They, including myself, made a lot of excuses for why they were that way. I even claimed I ate healthy and couldn't understand why I didn't lose weight when I thought I should. Until I started tracking what I ate and realized how much I was truly eating. I made excuses for myself. My friends made, and some still do make, excuses for themselves. Some of them are perfectly happy being obese and I'm not going to tell them they shouldn't be. It's their life and if they are happy, then that's fine. Some of them aren't happy, and just telling them to give up and be fat isn't the right answer for them.
However, to say that it's almost impossible to go from fat to thin (and stay healthy doing it) is a lie. I know many people personally who have done it, so it's far from impossible. But it takes a whole lot of work and dedication, not only to what you eat and your activity, but your emotional and mental states, your relationships, your reasons for why you do or don't do certain things. It's not an easy road, and I understand why so many people try and don't succeed, but giving up isn't the answer, either.
I'm sure most of the overweight NFL players could out run me. I have no doubt. But that doesn't mean they don't have higher risk factors that I don't have simply because they are overweight. For me, it's my job as a mom to keep my risk factors as low as I can. Doesn't guarantee anything, and it doesn't mean I won't by hit by a logging truck when I step out my front door. Also, if you study up some on epigenetics, you are not bound by "bad genetics" and even better, you can fix your genetic mishaps so that you don't pass them on to your children and grand children. Genetics aren't an excuse any more, either.
Healthy behaviors determine health, not weight, and unless we begin to appreciate that simple fact as a society, we will continue to see these elevated obesity rates.
That's no entirely correct - healthy behaviours (& genetics & environment) determine health - weight is a facet of that - it is not determinative but it is an important factor.
In a small percentage of people, % of fat is determined by factors other than calories/activity - in the main however it is due to consistently consuming more calories than are utilised.
Your points are pertinent however they are one-sided in seeking to avoid labelling 'fat' itself an issue (whether a detriment to health / enjoyment / whatever) - whether people should be free to live their life as they wish without being made to feel inferior is one issue - whether 'fat' itself is desirable and in what quantities is another - there is convergence in some areas but not others.
The scale can only give you a numerical reflection of your relationship with gravity. That's it. It cannot measure beauty, talent, purpose, life force, possibility, strength, or love.
OK, I'm back to this, even though I had silently promised myself I wouldn't be....
But here goes a few points:
I have been married for 37 years. My husband is 6' tall and the day we got married he weighed just under 175 lbs. and was very fit and active. I am 5'3" and the day we got married I weighed just under 130 lbs, and was quite fit and active. Over all these 37 years my husband has ALWAYS eaten more per meal than I did. He also drank a lot for the first 20 years of our marriage; beer; at least 8 beers a day. (Lots of calories in beer) I don't really drink much at all, and while my diet wasn't strictly 'healthy' for most of those early years, I have made great improvements in my eating habits over the last 15-18 years. I cut all red meat consumption by 2/3. I cut back on fried foods also by 2/3 - at least. I eat way more veggies (which I always loved anyway); I switched to diet sodas and low-calorie drinks many years ago.
But then, about 18 months ago, I cold-turkey stopped drinking all juices, drink mixes, AND ALL SODAS - completely! I drink WAY more water since I quit all the junk drinks. I cut back on all snacks and desserts by about 75%. I routinely go many days or weeks without ice cream, cake, chips or other snacks and sweets.
Today my husband weights only 10 lbs more than the day we got married. I, on the other hand, will not reveal my weight, but believe me, I've had a very significant weight gain over the years. VERY significant. We have three kids now grown; two are thin/average like my husband, and one is heavier and struggling with weight like me. They all were raised the same way, and even today eat similarly.
So to wrap it up: I'm eating healthier and better than I ever have before, in all my 56 years.... and I'm also the heaviest I've EVER been. I eat healthier and better (and less) than most of my friends and family, who are not fat at all, or not nearly AS fat as I am. So what's the answer to the big question; WHY??
I don't think that question will ever have a definitive answer in my lifetime. My cholesterol is better than ideal (165), my triglycerides are normal, my BP is fine, I do have a nearly comatose thyroid and have been taking thyroid meds for more than 20 yrs, but even they do not lead to weight loss for me... I don't smoke cigarettes, I don't really drink (just occasionally), and as I said I eat healthy enough.
So, I take the Buddhist approach to this -- It is what it is, I weigh what I weigh. I will eat as healthy as possible, but will not try one more "Diet" of calorie restriction, ever again. It is what it is.
Now here's a question for all of YOU:
Where is it written that fat people are "obligated" to spend their leisure time, their family time, their every waking moment of life striving and struggling to lose weight and "be healthy". What other group of people are so maligned, so bullied, so demonized, and so discriminated against -- under the guise of "health concerns"?
Everyone knows smoking is "bad" for you.... Everyone knows drinking alcohol isn't healthy... and those things actually cause diseases! Do drinkers and smokers get the kind of flack and bullying and shaming that fat people do? Not even close. And even if they do, those are habits they CAN stop completely - yeah, sometimes that means with professional help. But Fat people can't stop eating completely. And we just can't stop being fat, either.
Why is it OK for the general public to feel free to point and criticize fat people just for being "too big"? Why is it OK to offer unsolicited advice and push diets, weight loss surgery and other extreme means of losing weight onto fat people?
Why is it OK to make kids - KIDS! - ashamed of their growing and developing bodies all because our sick, twisted culture has concluded that weight = health and therefore "anything bigger than thin" is unhealthy? Do you all realize the huge jump in eating disorders among younger and younger kids in the last decade? It's scary. 8 year olds on diets, afraid to get fat, and parents who ENCOURAGE IT!
This has got to stop. Fat people (and fat kids) deserve to be treated with dignity and respect. You have no need to know, assume, or critique ANYONE's health... no matter HOW BIG they are.
Karasti, While our diet can influence leptin levels, you certainly can't control your leptin levels through diet. If you believe you can, I'm going to insist on research to back that up. You speak as though we know exactly what foods influence leptin, but there are studies that show that fats, sugars and starches all have an influence on our leptin levels (and I've included a sampling of them below), but how much is largely unknowable at this time because, first and foremost, we're only now learning how leptin works. It was only discovered 20 years ago and you act as though you know the key to "controlling" leptin. That's nonsense.
To state that "Hormone and cellular states in the body are greatly, and easily, influenced by the type of food you eat." is to assume that leptin works the same way that insulin does, and we do not know that... not yet, anyway. What we do know is that our leptin (and ghrelin) levels are largely out of our control; that there are some factors that influence our sensitivity to leptin (and leptin resistance is a strongly correlated with obesity), but we only know a handful of those causes; and that leptin plays a more powerful role in our behavior than we are willing to accept. This is what Jeffrey Friedman says and given that he has discovered more about leptin than you or I will ever know, I will take his word for it.
You are still ignoring the fact that I am saying that to be healthy you must eat healthy foods and get exercise. Your belief that a person who does these things will become thin is not born out by the evidence. What is needed to make a fat person thin is severe caloric restriction, which triggers an hormonal imbalance that persists until you achieve stability in your diet and the weight has been restored. The fact that you know some people who lost weight does not impress me. As I said in this post, even using the most optimistic estimates, of the population that diets (roughly half), just 4.4% will lose more than 20% of their starting weight and keep it off for one year. That shakes out to about 7 million people. So, yes, there is a chance that you know a person who has lost a significant amount of weight, but the vast majority of people do not, even when they are following the rules perfectly.
But I sense that this discussion is circling the drain. You are, after all, the person who suggested that my morbidly obese body is not capable of moving properly, as though my BMI makes me a Jabba the Hutt in waiting. Your arguments are being filtered through your bias and there's no fighting that.
Pick any research paper on weight loss, any one at all, and it will likely reference the near impossibility of long-term weight loss. If you don't read the research, then you don't actually know what's going on. You see hundreds, if not thousands, of testimonials in the media promising you that it's possible, yet the FDA regulates them strictly because claiming that most people can lose weight and keep it off is a lie, plain and simple.
Health has absolutely NOTHING to do with weight, except in the most extreme cases, which are very rare. For most people, health is a consequence of behavior, and that fact has been proven again and again and again in the research. If it weren't true, then why did Weight of the Nation spend so much time talking to Dr. Samuel Klein, whose research shows that just losing 7% of your starting weight is enough to reverse diabetes and disease? At 265 pounds, a 7% weight loss would be 19 pounds, making me 246 pounds: still obese, still lookin' like a fatty, yet the difference in health is astonishing. Same thing happens after weight loss surgery: the health benefits appear before a single pound is lost.
These are evidence-based facts, and when your only response is, "I know some people who did it," then there's nothing more to say. This issue is not black and white, not calories in/calories out, and when you make these simplistic assumptions about the reasons people are fat, you are insulting those who have lived an entirely different experience.
Zero, Weight is only a health issue at the extreme ends. The real health issue that we should be confronting is insulin resistance, which contributes to weight gain, but can also occur in thinner people as well. You cannot tell by looking at someone why they are fat, and as MaryAnne said, it's none of your business anyway. Unless we're all willing to open our lives up to a public health examination so that we can each and every one of us give unwelcome health advice on the personal choices of others, then society just needs to back off.
As Dr. Blair told me when I interviewed him, if research on the health risks of obesity do not control for physical activity, then those results are meaningless. Few research papers on obesity take into account the physical activity of fat people, and the ones that do show a significantly greater relationship between morbidity and health than weight and health.
MaryAnne, Those are excellent points, and the exact reason why you should keep doing what you're doing regardless of what the armchair physicians have to say. You're taking care of yourself because you want to. Nobody has developed a four-part documentary on the dangers of alcoholism, yet it kills nearly as many people and costs just as much money in terms of productivity and healthcare. But that's a personal choice people respect. People don't respect fatties, so it's okay to demand behavior change. It's BS and it has to stop.
"You are still ignoring the fact that I am saying that to be healthy you must eat healthy foods and get exercise. Your belief that a person who does these things will become thin is not born out by the evidence. What is needed to make a fat person thin is severe caloric restriction, which triggers an hormonal imbalance that persists until you achieve stability in your diet and the weight has been restored."
First, I never said that. I never said all you have to do is watch your calories in versus calories out and you'll become thin and healthy.
Second, do some research on epigenetics as related to diet. There is plenty of information out there about how diet affects cells and hormones. My son is a diabetic, I've been researching hormonal information for a long time. But if all you look for is information that fits what you believe, that is all you find. The references in the book "Deep Nutrition" is a good place to start. I wouldn't recommend the book in it's entirety because the author is oddly obsessed with how genes affect beauty and it takes away from the main message and the research greatly. But the research itself is still valid.
Third, anecdotal stories are still important. Because regardless of what studies on either side of the issue show, there are people on both sides of the issue who prove the studies wrong.
Lastly, the LAST people I trust to tell me what is healthy and what is not, is the FDA.
@MaryAnne-men tend not to gain weight in the same circumstances as women. Men overall carry much more muscle and it keeps their resting metabolic rate high. So a man who has no activity can still burn more calories than an active woman because of the amount of muscle they have.
I have nothing more to add to the discussion and will not participate anymore.
Articles showing a link between leptin and insulin resistance.
OK, I'm back to this, even though I had silently promised myself I wouldn't be....
But here goes a few points:
I have been married for 37 years. My husband is 6' tall and the day we got married he weighed just under 175 lbs. and was very fit and active. I am 5'3" and the day we got married I weighed just under 130 lbs, and was quite fit and active. Over all these 37 years my husband has ALWAYS eaten more per meal than I did. He also drank a lot for the first 20 years of our marriage; beer; at least 8 beers a day. (Lots of calories in beer) I don't really drink much at all, and while my diet wasn't strictly 'healthy' for most of those early years, I have made great improvements in my eating habits over the last 15-18 years. I cut all red meat consumption by 2/3. I cut back on fried foods also by 2/3 - at least. I eat way more veggies (which I always loved anyway); I switched to diet sodas and low-calorie drinks many years ago.
But then, about 18 months ago, I cold-turkey stopped drinking all juices, drink mixes, AND ALL SODAS - completely! I drink WAY more water since I quit all the junk drinks. I cut back on all snacks and desserts by about 75%. I routinely go many days or weeks without ice cream, cake, chips or other snacks and sweets.
Today my husband weights only 10 lbs more than the day we got married. I, on the other hand, will not reveal my weight, but believe me, I've had a very significant weight gain over the years. VERY significant. We have three kids now grown; two are thin/average like my husband, and one is heavier and struggling with weight like me. They all were raised the same way, and even today eat similarly.
So to wrap it up: I'm eating healthier and better than I ever have before, in all my 56 years.... and I'm also the heaviest I've EVER been. I eat healthier and better (and less) than most of my friends and family, who are not fat at all, or not nearly AS fat as I am. So what's the answer to the big question; WHY??
I don't think that question will ever have a definitive answer in my lifetime. My cholesterol is better than ideal (165), my triglycerides are normal, my BP is fine, I do have a nearly comatose thyroid and have been taking thyroid meds for more than 20 yrs, but even they do not lead to weight loss for me... I don't smoke cigarettes, I don't really drink (just occasionally), and as I said I eat healthy enough.
So, I take the Buddhist approach to this -- It is what it is, I weigh what I weigh. I will eat as healthy as possible, but will not try one more "Diet" of calorie restriction, ever again. It is what it is.
Now here's a question for all of YOU:
Where is it written that fat people are "obligated" to spend their leisure time, their family time, their every waking moment of life striving and struggling to lose weight and "be healthy". What other group of people are so maligned, so bullied, so demonized, and so discriminated against -- under the guise of "health concerns"?
Everyone knows smoking is "bad" for you.... Everyone knows drinking alcohol isn't healthy... and those things actually cause diseases! Do drinkers and smokers get the kind of flack and bullying and shaming that fat people do? Not even close. And even if they do, those are habits they CAN stop completely - yeah, sometimes that means with professional help. But Fat people can't stop eating completely. And we just can't stop being fat, either.
Why is it OK for the general public to feel free to point and criticize fat people just for being "too big"? Why is it OK to offer unsolicited advice and push diets, weight loss surgery and other extreme means of losing weight onto fat people?
Why is it OK to make kids - KIDS! - ashamed of their growing and developing bodies all because our sick, twisted culture has concluded that weight = health and therefore "anything bigger than thin" is unhealthy? Do you all realize the huge jump in eating disorders among younger and younger kids in the last decade? It's scary. 8 year olds on diets, afraid to get fat, and parents who ENCOURAGE IT!
This has got to stop. Fat people (and fat kids) deserve to be treated with dignity and respect. You have no need to know, assume, or critique ANYONE's health... no matter HOW BIG they are.
Brilliantly expressed. My comment I thought of is that many of the thin people are very anxious about THEIR appearance and their fears of not looking right make them project on overweight people.
I get the same thing with psychosis which is a thought disorder not psychopath or sociopath. So many people will tell me it is not a brain disease or that medicines are wrong. So I hear you on the stigma. Stigma is ignorance.
I can find the same thing with my alcoholism. My mother thinks alkies deserve to die in the gutter; it's a 'moral failing' (her life has been blighted by the alcoholism of others).
There is still stigma attached to being an alcoholic!
I can find the same thing with my alcoholism. My mother thinks alkies deserve to die in the gutter; it's a 'moral failing' (her life has been blighted by the alcoholism of others).
There is still stigma attached to being an alcoholic!
And?
It's only a problem if I let it be a problem.
True enough, Tosh. There is a stigma and it's unfair. There is a stigma towards all who get caught up in addictions of all sorts. The War on Drugs has been a dismal failure. Those who use and or abuse drugs should not be turned into "criminals" only by way of the laws against using drugs. Treatment works 1000 times more than fines or incarceration. But that's a whole other rant.
Buddhism is a philosophy/religion of "Compassion". Compassion for self as well as for all living things. But, there is no compassion in judging people based solely on how they look (fat or thin). There is no compassion assuming fat people MUST BE unhealthy, lazy, not-caring about themselves, weak minded, or emotionally damaged.
Shannon presented us all with information and links to tons of studies and stats regarding the mechanics and facts about getting fat and being fat. That's what he does, and he's really damn good at it! I'm trying to appeal to the emotional (compassionate) side of people and get them to realize how fat-shaming and bullying it really is to be spouting platitudes and weight-loss industry talking points at fat people - especially kids. The emotional damage done to kids by "well meaning" parents, grandparents, gym teachers, indoctrinated peers, and especially the MEDIA can last a lifetime. The damage it can do to adults is also significant and hurtful. There is simply no need for it.
The idea that To Be Fat is to Always Be Unhealthy is a CULTURAL meme. It is not based in fact, only fiction. And even if it was true, (but it's not) what business is it of anyone's?
Here's an example to think about: An alcoholic is sitting in his favorite neighborhood pub having a drink. He steps outside to stand on the busy street and smoke a cigarette, beer in hand. In that 8 minutes of standing there, will people walk, drive or cycle by and say things like: "You drunken B*tch! Why are you drinking at 4 in the afternoon!?" Or, "Put out that filthy cigarette, you moron!! I hope you get lung cancer - you deserve it! I don't want to pay for your cancer, you low life POS."
Will they whiz by and make Pig sounds, or Moo like a cow? Will they throw half empty soda cans at the guy, or half eaten burgers? Will they shout things like "Ugly!" "Pig!" "F'ing Cow!" or make gagging and vomit noises? Will they walk past and refuse to veer off their course so that the alcoholic has to move out of the way as they snicker and make a comment about "hogging up the whole sidewalk"?
No, that's not going to happen, not to an alcoholic, nor a smoker. Some people may THINK such things, but they won't confront or abuse strangers about it. They mind their own business and go about their day. But these are the things any fat woman (women way more than men) can experience - any day, in any city or town. These are the things fat kids experience in schools and playgrounds, everywhere.
As far as knowing some people who DO lose weight and keep it off...
Well, None of us (fat people included) would be dealing in reality if we didn't admit that SOME people actually are fat because they eat poorly, eat too much and don't exercise. If that happens to be the reason a person is overweight, of course it makes sense that once they (drastically?) change their eating habits to more healthy habits and start exercising, they CAN Lose that weight. Whether that is 'easy' to do or not, is beside the point. But that's SOME people -- not ALL people who are fat. As explained by Shannon and me; fat people can still be healthy people, eat well, exercise and function just fine, but still be fat! You just can't tell by looking at them. And that's why the judgment/shaming/concern trolling should end. Well that, and because being a Buddhist should help one see how wrong it is.
Id say to ur original post that you should be posting on a weight watchers forum or something.. people like you and me, are bothered by all sorts of things, and luckily the internet is full of help, but is ur 20 pounds really a spiritual matter of great importance? is it ruining your life? hell if it is, then screw it lets get down to the roots of it..
lol also maybe u should be thinking about ur kids more than ur fat ass, who cares if u are 300lbs if u raise half a fine kid then u are doin the world a favour..
Gaining 20lbs (rather than having been overweight your entire life) indicates that you can lose the weight and keep it off. People who have always been obese are statistically more unlikely to keep the weight off forever. The body has what it feels is "normal" and it tends to keep itself there. Your normal is probably 20lbs less than it is now, unless you were really underweight before, so if you get back down there you'll probably stay there providing you keep up being healthy.
Take a look at the reasons you've been over eating, write them down (they really might not be related to pain or trauma, it might just be that you've been making the wrong choices for convenience sake, however, if you have been feeling depressed or anything, seek professional assistance and address those issues).
Next, write down the times you know you've made the unhealthy choice, and next to it write a healthier alternative.
For example, you might write - ate a bag of Cheetos while watching a movie. Next to it you could write, eat some air popped popcorn, and you can do that next time.
If you write, got McDonalds for dinner, next to it you could write, wake up 10 minutes earlier and prepare some vegetables and stuff to go in a pan for dinner.
That way you make yourself aware of your habits and patterns, and you actively do something to counteract it.
I'll be honest, I haven't read most of this thread, it was too long but I know that putting on weight sucks. You feel lethargic and guilty.
Yes, some people are just overweight, and some overweight people are perfectly healthy, it really depends on the individual, but if you're not taking care of your body you're going to feel guilty about it, and guilt is painful.
You're going to be stuck with your body the rest of your life, treat it with respect. Just like a pet, it requires certain things and as its owner it's your responsibility to provide them.
Just feed it nutritional foods and take it for a walk now and then.
This is how I am trying to approach the supermarket lifestyle that is my American existence:
Step one: eliminate toxins from your diet, such as sugar and partially hydrogenated stuff, etc.
Step two: discover what deficiancies you have and research what foods can fufill what vitamins and minerals you aren't getting and then take the right kind of supplements if you are unable to attain these foods.
Step three: do not worry about what you look like. focus instead on how whatever you put in your body makes you feel. crappy food will drain your energy. good food will give you energy. you can then use that energy to aid you to focus and get even closer to that thing we call Right Concentration... then, who knows where you will go, but i am guessing it wont be to the snack aisle. Use food as a fuel for your journey on the path, not as an escape from it.
Also a good book that preaches all this stuff is called Never Be Sick Again by I forget the author but he is an MD who actually does his own research.
What Atchka says is true ... not all fat people can lose weight. Not all fat people became fat because of over-eating and lack of exercise. Of cos some did but not all. Sicknesses like hypothyroid can be a cause a huge weight gain. I know people who had that problem. The weight just piles up no matter how little they eat. First things first, consult a doctor.
Being overweight isn't a nice thing especially for the ladies. However, looking great shouldn't be a priority in life. I personally have an inner struggle just because I gained 5kgs over 2 years and I am 42kg now. OKOK ... I am not fat but I am not thin in comparison to my height. My point? I am NOT happy that I gained weight. I work almost 20 hours a day doing dharma work with hardly any sleep with exercise being out of the question. However, I keep my mind in check that benefitting others is more important than how I look. If I get obese and die of exhaustion because of that, it's worth it.
I do try to keep healthy as much as I can by becoming a vegetarian which is one of the best thing I have ever done. It saves many lives and it can also save my life (karmically from going to the 3 lower realms as it's very bad karma to kill and eat another being). The higher motivation is what's important and keeps you going. Switch the motivation to wanting a good health so that you can live a longer life to accumulate more merits and benefit others. When you exude compassion and love, everyone will love you NO MATTER HOW FAT you are.
I've lost about a stone; 6.5 kg approx; in the past six months with another stone to go. I did that by eating healthier and running. I'm not eating all those chocolates and crisps I used to eat - you know, the 'naughty stuff'. And I try to keep my portion sizes sensible too.
Last week I lost just under a kilo, this week I've lost .5 kg and I plan to just keep pluggin' away at it.
Master Cleanse, anyone? I just finished the 10 day (14 really) process, losing around 8 pounds, and gaining good energy. For those with the gut(s) to try a 10 day fast, this is a great way to move away from bad eating habits and onto a healthier lifestyle. Its not about losing weight, but that is an added benefit, especially if you have joint problems due to chubbiness. Its really about the cleanse, which definitely works. Sometimes you have to clear out the muck to make room for the goodness! Its challenging but totally do-able. The Great Empty Circle will be your stomach.
mastercleanse.org is the site I used, but there is a book called The Master Cleanser that you can download free in PDF form somewhere out there.
Oh and one more thing: food tastes better after you complete the proccess. Who wouldn't want that?
Cleanses are total nonsense in my point of view. Most doctors advise against them because there is no proven benefit whatsoever. Your body already cleanses itself of toxins, drinking water with lemon juice in it doesn't change anything at all, at least, not according to science.
I don't see starving your body for a week as beneficial at all. Aside from that, you gain the weight back and then some when you start eating again.
its not that the lemon juice does anything for you, because it esentially passes right through you. its that you give your body a break from trying to break down complex sugars and proccessed food so it can work on some of the problems that may have arisen from eating poorly. for example: I have a pesky cyst that gets enflamed when i eat too much of the wrong kind of fatty foods. after the cleanse, the cyst is all but gone. the human body WANTS to heal itself. crappy food blocks its ability to do this. and though there is little science to highlight its benefits, it cant hurt you. you get plenty of calories ftom the syrup that is the other key component and hunger isnt really an issue.
Syrup is made of sugar, so how can you say you're giving your body a break from breaking down sugars if that's all it's doing for 2 weeks? And you definitely don't get enough calories from the syrup, and you definitely don't get the right kind of calories from the syrup.
Hey, some people swear by them and you know, if it works for you, go for it, but I'd warn against recommending it to people without also making it clear that nothing in the medical field supports it, and there is no scientific evidence to support its effectiveness, or even its safety.
and you dont gain the weight back if you eat correctly afterwards. the right combos of food can actually help you to burn fat. I'm not running off to McDonalds in celebration.
It's not that, it's that your body overcompensates for the lack of food over the previous two weeks, and "fills up the stores" again so to speak. That's why weight loss needs to be slow, and why, when you're losing large amounts of weight, maintenance periods are necessary - to get your body used to its new weight so that it doesn't start overcompensating and trying to get itself back to "normal" (the physical condition that it's most used to).
with this cleanse if you are undeweight, you actually gain weight. it helps to normalize you. and again, its not about weight loss... but I hear what your saying. do your own research if you are considering this cleanse. I did and felt confident enough to try it.
I have to say that if this site is for Buddhists and by Buddhists, then I'm disappointed in the judgmental attitudes I have seen in this thread. And I thought Buddhists were taught to see through the illusions, yet so many cling to the illusion that weight loss is possible for most fat people. How disappointing.
Peace, Shannon
See, it's all a test. We're all trying to get you to realize how expectations can create suffering and negativity ( in the form of disappointment).
Really though, you can't expect anyone who calls themselves a Buddhist - whether they're a monk or someone who's read some books - to be completely objective and master of the Ten Perfections or something. Buddhists, Christians, Muslims, etc etc are still people affected by their emotions and subjective experiences.
OK, I'm back to this, even though I had silently promised myself I wouldn't be....
But here goes a few points:
I have been married for 37 years. My husband is 6' tall and the day we got married he weighed just under 175 lbs. and was very fit and active. I am 5'3" and the day we got married I weighed just under 130 lbs, and was quite fit and active. Over all these 37 years my husband has ALWAYS eaten more per meal than I did. He also drank a lot for the first 20 years of our marriage; beer; at least 8 beers a day. (Lots of calories in beer) I don't really drink much at all, and while my diet wasn't strictly 'healthy' for most of those early years, I have made great improvements in my eating habits over the last 15-18 years. I cut all red meat consumption by 2/3. I cut back on fried foods also by 2/3 - at least. I eat way more veggies (which I always loved anyway); I switched to diet sodas and low-calorie drinks many years ago.
But then, about 18 months ago, I cold-turkey stopped drinking all juices, drink mixes, AND ALL SODAS - completely! I drink WAY more water since I quit all the junk drinks. I cut back on all snacks and desserts by about 75%. I routinely go many days or weeks without ice cream, cake, chips or other snacks and sweets.
Today my husband weights only 10 lbs more than the day we got married. I, on the other hand, will not reveal my weight, but believe me, I've had a very significant weight gain over the years. VERY significant. We have three kids now grown; two are thin/average like my husband, and one is heavier and struggling with weight like me. They all were raised the same way, and even today eat similarly.
So to wrap it up: I'm eating healthier and better than I ever have before, in all my 56 years.... and I'm also the heaviest I've EVER been. I eat healthier and better (and less) than most of my friends and family, who are not fat at all, or not nearly AS fat as I am. So what's the answer to the big question; WHY??
I don't think that question will ever have a definitive answer in my lifetime. My cholesterol is better than ideal (165), my triglycerides are normal, my BP is fine, I do have a nearly comatose thyroid and have been taking thyroid meds for more than 20 yrs, but even they do not lead to weight loss for me... I don't smoke cigarettes, I don't really drink (just occasionally), and as I said I eat healthy enough.
So, I take the Buddhist approach to this -- It is what it is, I weigh what I weigh. I will eat as healthy as possible, but will not try one more "Diet" of calorie restriction, ever again. It is what it is.
Now here's a question for all of YOU:
Where is it written that fat people are "obligated" to spend their leisure time, their family time, their every waking moment of life striving and struggling to lose weight and "be healthy". What other group of people are so maligned, so bullied, so demonized, and so discriminated against -- under the guise of "health concerns"?
Everyone knows smoking is "bad" for you.... Everyone knows drinking alcohol isn't healthy... and those things actually cause diseases! Do drinkers and smokers get the kind of flack and bullying and shaming that fat people do? Not even close. And even if they do, those are habits they CAN stop completely - yeah, sometimes that means with professional help. But Fat people can't stop eating completely. And we just can't stop being fat, either.
Why is it OK for the general public to feel free to point and criticize fat people just for being "too big"? Why is it OK to offer unsolicited advice and push diets, weight loss surgery and other extreme means of losing weight onto fat people?
Why is it OK to make kids - KIDS! - ashamed of their growing and developing bodies all because our sick, twisted culture has concluded that weight = health and therefore "anything bigger than thin" is unhealthy? Do you all realize the huge jump in eating disorders among younger and younger kids in the last decade? It's scary. 8 year olds on diets, afraid to get fat, and parents who ENCOURAGE IT!
This has got to stop. Fat people (and fat kids) deserve to be treated with dignity and respect. You have no need to know, assume, or critique ANYONE's health... no matter HOW BIG they are.
@MaryAnn, I have always liked seeing your input, but this was phenomenal. What I have been saying for years, and struggling with my whole life.
Also, @Shannon- I think you are the person who suggested "Healthy At Every Size". I read it and I thank you. This is a very tough pill to swallow but rings true with my life, everyone I know and everything I have seen had me suspecting something like this was the underlying truth.
A friend has undergone gastric banding surgery to help her lose weight after not being able to sustain her many efforts of losing weight and each time ending up a few kilos heavier in the process. She reports her surgeon as stating that after over 10 years of being obese there is physical changes which make the weight loss more difficult. As she now has grandchildren, she wants to maximise her chances of a long life and has also stated that you don't see many obese people in the 80's. Wondering what others thoughts are on her beliefs?
I live in a Senior community... the median age here is probably around 74-75. I go to the community pool all summer ( I have an awesome tan, btw! ) and I see plenty of chubby, fat and yes, even 'obese' old people. Many of them well into their 70's and 80s. I would estimate the number of fat people outnumbers the average size by 2-1. These are old, fat people who go to the pool several days a week, just like I do (and I'm 'only' 56), and swim for exercise and enjoyment. Some of these old fat people can walk better than I do, and out swim me - any day of the week! Some can't. But they are there just the same, getting out, exercising and being active.
There are plenty of fat people in nursing homes too... and they aren't there because they are fat; they are there for all the same reasons thin and average size people are in nursing homes. Some may have been fat their whole lives, some may be fat later in life because of other health issues and or mobility limitations. But they're there and they're fat.
Who knows how many old people you see in hospitals or nursing homes that might be thin now because of illness/es having caused them to become thin; such is the case with many cancer survivors and others who had serious diseases and even old-age related depression, which, in many seniors leads to limited eating and or actual eating disorders.
Again, as is always my point when on this topic... you just don't know anything about a person's health or habits, just by looking at them. And even if you did, why should a person be judged for it?
I guess I'm going to be a little less generous than you on this topic, Mary Anne, although I do want to say up front that I am a fat person...although I don't think many people would say I am obese (although by medical definition I am). Let's put it this way, I'm fat and I know it, but when I go out shopping or dining I feel better about myself simply because I see so many people fatter than I.
Until about 12 years ago, I was just slightly overweight. Then, in quick succession I broke my shoulder and then my elbow, both very bad breaks, and I stopped all exercise for about 4 months. That's when I really put on the pounds. But I seemed to be managing it all physically, and continued doing some hiking, etc. After retiring, I took off 35 pounds, although I actually look fatter now than I did before losing that weight -- old age sag!
Then, a year ago, I started having problems with my heart. Both my regular physician and my cardiologist said the cause of the heart issue was not about eating habits or being overweight. It was a problem that I was born with...my body had just coped with it for 62 years. But, and here's the key point I am trying to make -- I would probably be having the heart issue whether or not I was overweight...but being overweight is making it more difficult for my body to deal with the heart issue and other health issues. For example, my back problems would be better without the extra weight. My planar facitis heel issue would be better without the extra weight. I have to have some surgery sometime after the first of the year -- that would go better without the extra weight.
Intellectually, I know all these things, but I have poor willpower to stop eating more than I need to eat. I have some friends who are much heavier than I, and I really do see it as willpower. One of my friends in diabetic and has to take shots for it...and is the fattest man I have ever personally known...and trust me, in his case, it's all about how much he shovels down. His wife had the gastric bypass surgery...over time she has put all the weight back on...and it is about how much she shovels down. There's a lady at the church I occasionally attend who also had the gastric bypass surgery, and has now gotten back up to over 350 pounds...and she fully admits it's about the volume of food she consumes.
For most of us who are overweight, it's all psychological, and it's our weakness. And we ought to be able to conquer that.
For some people it is about not wanting to give up the things they enjoy. But for others they can eat 1200 calories a day and still keep getting fat. It all depends on how your body reacts to things. I can't eat wheat. Even after 18 months of tracking my calories and working out an hour a day, 6 days a week, I wasn't losing weight. There was no reason for me not to be, I was eating healthy whole grains, not having snacks, eating by all definitions a well balanced, healthy diet, and I lost 4 pounds in 18 months. Then I found out that I have a wheat sensitivity. I cut wheat out of my diet, changed nothing else, kept tracking my calories and my exercise actually greatly decreased because of my foot problem, and I lost 34 pounds in 3 months. I wasn't on a low carb diet, or anything else. I ate tons of fruit and veggies, and lean meats, and some dairy. Very little of anything else, and basically no grains at all. My weight went down immediately, my bloatedness went away, my health risk indicators all went in the right directions. Within 3 months. So, it's not always as simple as calories in/calories out, though it is for some people for sure. But if you are doing all the "right" things and not losing weight, ask to be tested for food sensitivities because their effect on your weight is huge. Wheat is one of the worst foods that increases your body's resistance to insulin, which leads to a ton of weight gain and eventually other health problems.
If you look at the Glycemic index, you get a good idea off how bad grains can be for you. Most breads have a GI of 70 to 90. 100 is the highest. Cake and pie is more like 50-60, even candy is lower on the GI than wheat is. Yet our FDA is telling everyone how important it is to eat "whole grains" which send your blood sugar sky high and over years of eating like that, thinking you are eating healthy, you still get fat. Then you develop ulcerative colitis, crohn's, celiac disease, cancer and all sorts of other fun things. All from eating the way we're told to eat. People should be getting their fiber and carbs from fruits and veggies, not grains.
It all comes down to Weight Issues, especially the over-weight issue, is a very complex and individual problem. If it was easy and simple to remedy, it wouldn't be an issue for anyone in this day and age of medical advances and self-improvement movements.
I think we've lost sight of the fact that people are made to be tall, short, fat, thin, hairy, bald, blue eyed or brown, fair skinned or dark, etc etc. Nearly all these thing we've come to be able to change - through cosmetics and sometimes medical intervention. We just find it really really difficult to accept that maybe ... just maybe... we can't change EVERYTHING about our bodies.
@MaryAnne, definitely, everyone can benefit from loving themselves as they are, and to stop wishing to be something they are not, and should not even want to be. There isn't much point in trying to have compassion and love for others, if you cannot do it for yourself. We are all brothers and sisters, no matter what our reflection shows, and we are all deserving of self-love and the love of others.
On an interesting note I read an article the other day about a lady who did a "mirror fast" and didn't see her reflection for 4 months. I found it an interesting topic, and I wondered what it would be like to never know what you look like. It made me wonder the perspective of life-long blind people who don't know what they look like, or what others look like to be able to compare themselves to others and vice versa.
Comments
Peace,
Shannon
I am an alcoholic (sober), so have experience of feeling compelled to drink alcohol, every day, day-in-day-out; even though it was killing me and I knew it. I guess over eating can be like that.
Free will? Nope. Conditional 'free' will? Yes. I was shown by A.A. how to create the causes and conditions so that I could exercise my will and overcome my drinking problem. They were positive, and told me I could, if I followed a few simple (not easy) instructions. I followed, it worked, I'm sober.
I think it's sad that someone is saying that it's impossible for 'fat people' to lose weight. I find that disappointing. I'm glad recovered alcoholics don't spread the same message; that something is 'impossible'.
I personally find the message this 'fat person' sends hugely inspiring:
The difference between alcoholism and obesity is that alcoholism is a behavior and obesity is not. Obesity can be a symptom of behavior (such as unhealthy diet and lack of exercise) or it can be a side effect of medication (anti-depressants and steroids have well-documented weight gain side effects) or caused by stress, poverty or about a thousand other contributing factors. A more accurate analogy would be to compare obesity to yellow teeth.
Some people have yellow teeth because they smoke cigarettes, and therefore it can be an indication of an unhealthy habit. Others are born with teeth that are prone to yellowing. But you can't tell by looking at someone's teeth if they smoke or not. What you want to encourage people to do is to take up healthy behaviors. Those healthy behaviors may lead to weight loss and they may not, but people act as though weight loss is proof of healthy behaviors and it isn't.
Why isn't it? Well, the best answer I can give is to refer you to the work of Dr. Jeffrey Friedman, who discovered leptin in 1994. Up until Friedman's discovery, people thought fat was just a storage locker for energy and nothing more. Friedman proved for the first time that adipose tissue is an endocrine organ that produces leptin, a hormone which regulates appetite. There is no known hormone that regulates alcoholism. There is no homeostatic system that wants you to maintain a certain blood alcohol content. There may be some interaction with the pleasure centers, which has a similar relationship to the response many people have to food, but weight is a highly regulated system and the body works hard to prevent weight loss. If you have time, I recommend this video which features Dr. Friedman explaining the role of leptin:
Do not mistake my message for apathy or complacency. No, most fat people will not be able to become thin people, but any fat person can become a healthy person if they engage in healthy lifestyle choices (though there are some exceptions there as well pertaining to the genetic influence of cholesterol, blood pressure and diabetes). Exercise and a healthy balanced diet can have a powerful effect on our health, but the one thing it has proven ineffective for is long-term, large-scale weight loss.
The research is there if you don't believe me. And if you don't believe the research, then there's not much I can do or say to persuade you then, is there.
Peace,
Shannon
Alcoholism is also a 'symptom'. For an alcoholic, drinking is a solution to a deeper problem, and that's the way they feel when they're stone cold sober. Feelings create intentions (this is Buddhist psychology) and intentions create actions. Not only that, these actions condition intentions; we do something we find we enjoy, and our mind remembers that for the next time. This creates habit patterns, and the longer they go on for the deeper the habit patter groove becomes. It seems almost impossible to break the cycle sometimes; but it is not impossible at all.
I suspect that developing a pattern of overeating grows like this; it kinda strikes me that some people use food as a drug; to change the way they're feeling. Feeling - intention - action.
And then you go on to describe what is basically Buddhist dependant arising; there is no single cause of an event, but every phenomena will have a main cause and contributing causes too. I do whole heartedly agree that there will be factors that make weight loss tougher for some than others; but my post was in disagreement with Atchka's post where he/she said weight loss for some people was 'impossible'; that I disagree with and feel it maybe detrimental to someone who is looking for ways to lose weight.
I don't think being overweight is a moral problem, just as I don't think alcoholism is a moral problem either. We don't have complete and utter free will; even neuroscience seems to say that; so it can't be moral. Neither am I judging, but I am someone who has struggled with 'addictions' with my drinking and smoking (both of which I do not do now), and I think I understand some of the issues.
And whilst I can't give some specific advice about how to lose weight for someone who overeats, I can say that some problems can't be tackled 'head on'. It's very difficult for an alcoholic to say, "Right, that's it, I will never drink again!" and then adhere to that. At some stage, for reasons which I won't go into ('cos I'll bore you), they will probably fail. Will power only gets us so far, but in itself is not much use (my experience here). When it comes to breaking deeply ingrained habit patterns, we have to be smart and tackle them 'sideways'. We need a plan!
I used Alcoholics Anonymous's 12 Steps; that was my 'plan', but I do have a friend in Overeater's Anonymous and they use the same 12 Steps; exactly the same program that helps alcoholics, helps over eaters. I understand how this can work. In Buddhism I'm taught that Boddichitta should be the motivation for everything we do; compassion for others, and guess where the 12 Steps puts it's emphasis on recovery? Yep, you may have guessed it; compassion for others. Alcoholics stay sober by helping other alcoholics to stay sober.
There is a lot of power in compassion for others and who would've guessed that we can solve a personal problem, like alcoholism or over eating, by focusing on having compassion for others? If you watched that video I put up, the bloke that did the running and went from massive to skinny; one of his chief motivators was the love he had for his niece with that breathing illness.
And that's what I love about the spiritual path; it's so counter intuitive sometimes that it makes me smile.
The specific issue is the health detriments (perhaps also enjoyment of life detriments) from being 'fat' - I accept that 'fat' in itself is subjective so for present purposes let us assume that the mean average is the 'ideal health position' - this is a rough guesstimate however as good health is determined by the broad average health condition (i.e. you're not in bad health if you dont live to be 300 as average life expectancy is determined on global averages) then it's not an unrealistic position.
The conclusion as to the studies also sidesteps the issue - exercise and a healthy balanced diet are undoubtedly effective in any term (long or short) - it is peoples' inability (through fault or otherwise) to be consistent in employing these behaviours that means exercise and a healthy balanced diet may fail in the long term.
The issue therefore is how exercise and a healthy diet are employed - how people relate to themselves both in self-image and actual health and where this is placed on the spectrum of important things in life - currently, this is driven broadly by 'markets' and 'profit' rather than a realistic approach to exercise and healthy diet to avoid the detriments of yo-yoing (which would likely be worse than just staying at a weight and exercising regularly even if that is 'fat').
There is no easy solution - I see the benefit of a supportive approach advocated by you - I agree that people should not be judged by their appearance and each of us should be free to live our lives - if you're happy with yourself then more power to you - that said, there is an inherent danger in empowering people to hide from all the options.
In UK we have exams at 16 called GCSE's - graded A-E - there are 2 exams for each subject - 1 exam has a maximum mark of C - the 2nd has additional points that lead to an A max but it is tougher - the practice has grown that those who are perceived as having less ability are entered for exam 1 only (so they are limited to a C) whereas if you have more ability you take both and have a chance at an A... for the school it is good sifting the abilities as it affects their ranking on league tables (and funding etc).
Your proposition as articulated here sounds to me like settling for the 'C' exam - I am not taking anything away from it just that people should know that there are other options and grades and that with will, determination and courage an A is a real possibility - if that floats your boat of course.
Once again, you are resorting to assumptions about fat people. One of the indicators of alcoholism is drinking to excess, but obesity is not always an indication of "overeating." And furthermore, our understanding of leptin demonstrates that the concept of "overeating" is based on a false assumption that there is one caloric amount that ALL people should be eating and that anyone who eats more than that amount is "overeating." Appetite, hunger, and satiety are all genetically determined, and there are natural variations. Our genetic predisposition to a certain weight set point determines our body's caloric requirements, which in turn determines the amount of calories it takes to satisfy our hunger. We see this demonstrated in children who crave sugar until they're bones stop growing. It seems that our bodies send out signals to acquire a certain amount of calories to fulfill its job of development.
A more adequate comparison to alcoholism would be binge eating disorder (BED). BED occurs in 2-5% of the population, while just a quarter of morbidly obese adults have BED. But even if you believe that this is a case of under-reporting or insufficient samples, there is yet another explanation for "overeating" that researchers are well aware of, but society generally ignores: weight cycling, or yo-yo dieting.
Although the exact effects that weight cycling has on our metabolic indicators is still being sussed out in research, what has been widely accepted is that severe weight cyclers have a greater incidence of both long-term weight gain and cardiovascular mortality. I discuss the issue in depth in this post. What frequently happens in our society is that children who are naturally heavier are put onto weight loss diets while they are still developing, even though they may be perfectly healthy (most pediatricians recommend monitoring a child's growth trajectory, rather than a single weigh-in... if a child is born in the 95th percentile and grows consistently in the 95th percentile, that may be that child's natural size). So, the parent restricts that child's calories, the child is hungry but forced to resist this natural urge until they end up either binging on calorically dense foods or hiding food from the parent. This is what is known among eating disorder specialists as the restriction/disinhibition cycle.
People can only resist their hunger for so long, and when they finally snap, they go off the deep end. And because they have put so much work into losing weight, rather than simply focusing on healthy behaviors, they see this "snapping" as a failure and give up all the healthy behaviors, regaining the weight and causing metabolic damage in the process. And so they return to the weight loss well time and time again, each time pushing their weight a little higher once the weight loss attempt fails. And we have been encouraging fatties to use caloric restriction since the 1970s, about the same time that we began to see a rise in obesity rates. The call to dieting is just one of many, MANY cultural convergences that took place between 1970 and 2000, which have contributed to the shift in obesity rates. But the only ones we focus on are the changes in our food system and the sedentary nature of office work. But the issue is far more complicated than a bunch of fat people who can't control themselves, and when you simplify the issue into those terms, you are insulting a lot of people who remain fat in spite of having a perfectly healthy relationship with food and exercise.
Stop making assumptions about why fat people are fat. You don't know, you never will know, and by acting as though you do, you are engaging in stereotypes, which is harmful, even in those occasional instances when they're true.
Peace,
Shannon
Our society has been promoting the A exam of weight loss for 40 years now, in all its various forms. Yes, there are fad diets, but ask any fat person and they can tell you about the "permanent" healthy lifestyle changes they made because they were assured it would lead to weight loss if they just stuck with it. Health at Every Size is not a C exam. It is a totally different test all together. The exam paradigm you mention bases its grades on how much weight you lose, what your BMI is and, generally speaking, the size of your ass. HAES grades you on the outcomes that really matter: blood pressure, blood lipids, blood sugars, cardiorespiratory fitness, strength, endurance, and general well-being.
In several randomized controlled trial, subjects were divided into usual care (nutritionist teaching them healthy weight loss techniques) and a HAES group. The usual care group lost weight and improved their metabolic indicators initially, but at the end of the year most returned to baseline weight (and some gained slightly more) along with the improvements in blood pressure, lipids and sugars. Meanwhile, the HAES group maintained a stable weight AND maintained lower metabolic numbers. These are the numbers that really matter and unlike the usual care method, which typically employs some form of caloric restriction, HAES is sustainable throughout a lifetime, making it superior to the kinds of temporary lifestyle changes that people make in the pursuit of what is ultimately an arbitrary weight loss goal.
Healthy behaviors determine health, not weight, and unless we begin to appreciate that simple fact as a society, we will continue to see these elevated obesity rates.
Peace,
Shannon
Leptin is one of the things I frequently see people blame for the state of their body, and it is one of the key factors. But it is NOT one of the factors you have no control over. Hormone and cellular states in the body are greatly, and easily, influenced by the type of food you eat. It is most definitely true that some people become overweight because of medications and other factors. But it still doesn't make being overweight or obese, healthy. Can someone who is obese be more healthy in certain measurement than an unhealthy thin person? Yes. That doesn't mean they ARE healthy though.
I am sure there are obese and overweight people who are fairly healthy, depending how you measure health. However, I don't think they are the norm. Not a single one of the overweight and obese people (including myself when I was overweight) was healthy, but fat. They, including myself, made a lot of excuses for why they were that way. I even claimed I ate healthy and couldn't understand why I didn't lose weight when I thought I should. Until I started tracking what I ate and realized how much I was truly eating. I made excuses for myself. My friends made, and some still do make, excuses for themselves. Some of them are perfectly happy being obese and I'm not going to tell them they shouldn't be. It's their life and if they are happy, then that's fine. Some of them aren't happy, and just telling them to give up and be fat isn't the right answer for them.
However, to say that it's almost impossible to go from fat to thin (and stay healthy doing it) is a lie. I know many people personally who have done it, so it's far from impossible. But it takes a whole lot of work and dedication, not only to what you eat and your activity, but your emotional and mental states, your relationships, your reasons for why you do or don't do certain things. It's not an easy road, and I understand why so many people try and don't succeed, but giving up isn't the answer, either.
I'm sure most of the overweight NFL players could out run me. I have no doubt. But that doesn't mean they don't have higher risk factors that I don't have simply because they are overweight. For me, it's my job as a mom to keep my risk factors as low as I can. Doesn't guarantee anything, and it doesn't mean I won't by hit by a logging truck when I step out my front door. Also, if you study up some on epigenetics, you are not bound by "bad genetics" and even better, you can fix your genetic mishaps so that you don't pass them on to your children and grand children. Genetics aren't an excuse any more, either.
In a small percentage of people, % of fat is determined by factors other than calories/activity - in the main however it is due to consistently consuming more calories than are utilised.
Your points are pertinent however they are one-sided in seeking to avoid labelling 'fat' itself an issue (whether a detriment to health / enjoyment / whatever) - whether people should be free to live their life as they wish without being made to feel inferior is one issue - whether 'fat' itself is desirable and in what quantities is another - there is convergence in some areas but not others.
Author Unknown
But here goes a few points:
I have been married for 37 years. My husband is 6' tall and the day we got married he weighed just under 175 lbs. and was very fit and active.
I am 5'3" and the day we got married I weighed just under 130 lbs, and was quite fit and active.
Over all these 37 years my husband has ALWAYS eaten more per meal than I did. He also drank a lot for the first 20 years of our marriage; beer; at least 8 beers a day. (Lots of calories in beer) I don't really drink much at all, and while my diet wasn't strictly 'healthy' for most of those early years, I have made great improvements in my eating habits over the last 15-18 years.
I cut all red meat consumption by 2/3. I cut back on fried foods also by 2/3 - at least. I eat way more veggies (which I always loved anyway); I switched to diet sodas and low-calorie drinks many years ago.
But then, about 18 months ago, I cold-turkey stopped drinking all juices, drink mixes, AND ALL SODAS - completely! I drink WAY more water since I quit all the junk drinks. I cut back on all snacks and desserts by about 75%. I routinely go many days or weeks without ice cream, cake, chips or other snacks and sweets.
Today my husband weights only 10 lbs more than the day we got married.
I, on the other hand, will not reveal my weight, but believe me, I've had a very significant weight gain over the years. VERY significant. We have three kids now grown; two are thin/average like my husband, and one is heavier and struggling with weight like me.
They all were raised the same way, and even today eat similarly.
So to wrap it up: I'm eating healthier and better than I ever have before, in all my 56 years.... and I'm also the heaviest I've EVER been. I eat healthier and better (and less) than most of my friends and family, who are not fat at all, or not nearly AS fat as I am. So what's the answer to the big question; WHY??
I don't think that question will ever have a definitive answer in my lifetime. My cholesterol is better than ideal (165), my triglycerides are normal, my BP is fine, I do have a nearly comatose thyroid and have been taking thyroid meds for more than 20 yrs, but even they do not lead to weight loss for me... I don't smoke cigarettes, I don't really drink (just occasionally), and as I said I eat healthy enough.
So, I take the Buddhist approach to this --
It is what it is, I weigh what I weigh. I will eat as healthy as possible, but will not try one more "Diet" of calorie restriction, ever again. It is what it is.
Now here's a question for all of YOU:
Where is it written that fat people are "obligated" to spend their leisure time, their family time, their every waking moment of life striving and struggling to lose weight and "be healthy". What other group of people are so maligned, so bullied, so demonized, and so discriminated against -- under the guise of "health concerns"?
Everyone knows smoking is "bad" for you.... Everyone knows drinking alcohol isn't healthy... and those things actually cause diseases! Do drinkers and smokers get the kind of flack and bullying and shaming that fat people do? Not even close. And even if they do, those are habits they CAN stop completely - yeah, sometimes that means with professional help.
But Fat people can't stop eating completely. And we just can't stop being fat, either.
Why is it OK for the general public to feel free to point and criticize fat people just for being "too big"? Why is it OK to offer unsolicited advice and push diets, weight loss surgery and other extreme means of losing weight onto fat people?
Why is it OK to make kids - KIDS! - ashamed of their growing and developing bodies all because our sick, twisted culture has concluded that weight = health and therefore "anything bigger than thin" is unhealthy? Do you all realize the huge jump in eating disorders among younger and younger kids in the last decade? It's scary. 8 year olds on diets, afraid to get fat, and parents who ENCOURAGE IT!
This has got to stop. Fat people (and fat kids) deserve to be treated with dignity and respect. You have no need to know, assume, or critique ANYONE's health...
no matter HOW BIG they are.
While our diet can influence leptin levels, you certainly can't control your leptin levels through diet. If you believe you can, I'm going to insist on research to back that up. You speak as though we know exactly what foods influence leptin, but there are studies that show that fats, sugars and starches all have an influence on our leptin levels (and I've included a sampling of them below), but how much is largely unknowable at this time because, first and foremost, we're only now learning how leptin works. It was only discovered 20 years ago and you act as though you know the key to "controlling" leptin. That's nonsense.
To state that "Hormone and cellular states in the body are greatly, and easily, influenced by the type of food you eat." is to assume that leptin works the same way that insulin does, and we do not know that... not yet, anyway. What we do know is that our leptin (and ghrelin) levels are largely out of our control; that there are some factors that influence our sensitivity to leptin (and leptin resistance is a strongly correlated with obesity), but we only know a handful of those causes; and that leptin plays a more powerful role in our behavior than we are willing to accept. This is what Jeffrey Friedman says and given that he has discovered more about leptin than you or I will ever know, I will take his word for it.
You are still ignoring the fact that I am saying that to be healthy you must eat healthy foods and get exercise. Your belief that a person who does these things will become thin is not born out by the evidence. What is needed to make a fat person thin is severe caloric restriction, which triggers an hormonal imbalance that persists until you achieve stability in your diet and the weight has been restored. The fact that you know some people who lost weight does not impress me. As I said in this post, even using the most optimistic estimates, of the population that diets (roughly half), just 4.4% will lose more than 20% of their starting weight and keep it off for one year. That shakes out to about 7 million people. So, yes, there is a chance that you know a person who has lost a significant amount of weight, but the vast majority of people do not, even when they are following the rules perfectly.
But I sense that this discussion is circling the drain. You are, after all, the person who suggested that my morbidly obese body is not capable of moving properly, as though my BMI makes me a Jabba the Hutt in waiting. Your arguments are being filtered through your bias and there's no fighting that.
Pick any research paper on weight loss, any one at all, and it will likely reference the near impossibility of long-term weight loss. If you don't read the research, then you don't actually know what's going on. You see hundreds, if not thousands, of testimonials in the media promising you that it's possible, yet the FDA regulates them strictly because claiming that most people can lose weight and keep it off is a lie, plain and simple.
Health has absolutely NOTHING to do with weight, except in the most extreme cases, which are very rare. For most people, health is a consequence of behavior, and that fact has been proven again and again and again in the research. If it weren't true, then why did Weight of the Nation spend so much time talking to Dr. Samuel Klein, whose research shows that just losing 7% of your starting weight is enough to reverse diabetes and disease? At 265 pounds, a 7% weight loss would be 19 pounds, making me 246 pounds: still obese, still lookin' like a fatty, yet the difference in health is astonishing. Same thing happens after weight loss surgery: the health benefits appear before a single pound is lost.
These are evidence-based facts, and when your only response is, "I know some people who did it," then there's nothing more to say. This issue is not black and white, not calories in/calories out, and when you make these simplistic assumptions about the reasons people are fat, you are insulting those who have lived an entirely different experience.
Stop assuming: you're making an ass out of you.
Peace,
Shannon
http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/46/9/1516.short
http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/81/11/3909.short
http://ajpregu.physiology.org/content/280/2/R504.short
http://ukpmc.ac.uk/abstract/MED/10805502
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0026049597900597
http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v27/n8/abs/0802322a.html
Weight is only a health issue at the extreme ends. The real health issue that we should be confronting is insulin resistance, which contributes to weight gain, but can also occur in thinner people as well. You cannot tell by looking at someone why they are fat, and as MaryAnne said, it's none of your business anyway. Unless we're all willing to open our lives up to a public health examination so that we can each and every one of us give unwelcome health advice on the personal choices of others, then society just needs to back off.
As Dr. Blair told me when I interviewed him, if research on the health risks of obesity do not control for physical activity, then those results are meaningless. Few research papers on obesity take into account the physical activity of fat people, and the ones that do show a significantly greater relationship between morbidity and health than weight and health.
Peace,
Shannon
Those are excellent points, and the exact reason why you should keep doing what you're doing regardless of what the armchair physicians have to say. You're taking care of yourself because you want to. Nobody has developed a four-part documentary on the dangers of alcoholism, yet it kills nearly as many people and costs just as much money in terms of productivity and healthcare. But that's a personal choice people respect. People don't respect fatties, so it's okay to demand behavior change. It's BS and it has to stop.
Peace,
Shannon
First, I never said that. I never said all you have to do is watch your calories in versus calories out and you'll become thin and healthy.
Second, do some research on epigenetics as related to diet. There is plenty of information out there about how diet affects cells and hormones. My son is a diabetic, I've been researching hormonal information for a long time. But if all you look for is information that fits what you believe, that is all you find. The references in the book "Deep Nutrition" is a good place to start. I wouldn't recommend the book in it's entirety because the author is oddly obsessed with how genes affect beauty and it takes away from the main message and the research greatly. But the research itself is still valid.
Third, anecdotal stories are still important. Because regardless of what studies on either side of the issue show, there are people on both sides of the issue who prove the studies wrong.
Lastly, the LAST people I trust to tell me what is healthy and what is not, is the FDA.
@MaryAnne-men tend not to gain weight in the same circumstances as women. Men overall carry much more muscle and it keeps their resting metabolic rate high. So a man who has no activity can still burn more calories than an active woman because of the amount of muscle they have.
I have nothing more to add to the discussion and will not participate anymore.
Articles showing a link between leptin and insulin resistance.
http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/296/2/E394.full
http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v22/n2/abs/0800559a.html
http://www.ohamdy.com/Leptinadiponectin.pdf
http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/50/12/2786
I get the same thing with psychosis which is a thought disorder not psychopath or sociopath. So many people will tell me it is not a brain disease or that medicines are wrong. So I hear you on the stigma. Stigma is ignorance.
There is still stigma attached to being an alcoholic!
And?
It's only a problem if I let it be a problem.
Buddhism is a philosophy/religion of "Compassion". Compassion for self as well as for all living things. But, there is no compassion in judging people based solely on how they look (fat or thin). There is no compassion assuming fat people MUST BE unhealthy, lazy, not-caring about themselves, weak minded, or emotionally damaged.
Shannon presented us all with information and links to tons of studies and stats regarding the mechanics and facts about getting fat and being fat. That's what he does, and he's really damn good at it!
I'm trying to appeal to the emotional (compassionate) side of people and get them to realize how fat-shaming and bullying it really is to be spouting platitudes and weight-loss industry talking points at fat people - especially kids.
The emotional damage done to kids by "well meaning" parents, grandparents, gym teachers, indoctrinated peers, and especially the MEDIA can last a lifetime. The damage it can do to adults is also significant and hurtful. There is simply no need for it.
The idea that To Be Fat is to Always Be Unhealthy is a CULTURAL meme. It is not based in fact, only fiction. And even if it was true, (but it's not) what business is it of anyone's?
Here's an example to think about:
An alcoholic is sitting in his favorite neighborhood pub having a drink. He steps outside to stand on the busy street and smoke a cigarette, beer in hand. In that 8 minutes of standing there, will people walk, drive or cycle by and say things like:
"You drunken B*tch! Why are you drinking at 4 in the afternoon!?"
Or, "Put out that filthy cigarette, you moron!! I hope you get lung cancer - you deserve it! I don't want to pay for your cancer, you low life POS."
Will they whiz by and make Pig sounds, or Moo like a cow? Will they throw half empty soda cans at the guy, or half eaten burgers? Will they shout things like "Ugly!" "Pig!" "F'ing Cow!" or make gagging and vomit noises?
Will they walk past and refuse to veer off their course so that the alcoholic has to move out of the way as they snicker and make a comment about "hogging up the whole sidewalk"?
No, that's not going to happen, not to an alcoholic, nor a smoker. Some people may THINK such things, but they won't confront or abuse strangers about it. They mind their own business and go about their day.
But these are the things any fat woman (women way more than men) can experience - any day, in any city or town. These are the things fat kids experience in schools and playgrounds, everywhere.
As far as knowing some people who DO lose weight and keep it off...
Well, None of us (fat people included) would be dealing in reality if we didn't admit that SOME people actually are fat because they eat poorly, eat too much and don't exercise.
If that happens to be the reason a person is overweight, of course it makes sense that once they (drastically?) change their eating habits to more healthy habits and start exercising, they CAN Lose that weight. Whether that is 'easy' to do or not, is beside the point.
But that's SOME people -- not ALL people who are fat. As explained by Shannon and me; fat people can still be healthy people, eat well, exercise and function just fine, but still be fat! You just can't tell by looking at them.
And that's why the judgment/shaming/concern trolling should end. Well that, and because being a Buddhist should help one see how wrong it is.
Peace,
Shannon
is it ruining your life? hell if it is, then screw it lets get down to the roots of it..
lol also maybe u should be thinking about ur kids more than ur fat ass, who cares if u are 300lbs if u raise half a fine kid then u are doin the world a favour..
Take a look at the reasons you've been over eating, write them down (they really might not be related to pain or trauma, it might just be that you've been making the wrong choices for convenience sake, however, if you have been feeling depressed or anything, seek professional assistance and address those issues).
Next, write down the times you know you've made the unhealthy choice, and next to it write a healthier alternative.
For example, you might write - ate a bag of Cheetos while watching a movie. Next to it you could write, eat some air popped popcorn, and you can do that next time.
If you write, got McDonalds for dinner, next to it you could write, wake up 10 minutes earlier and prepare some vegetables and stuff to go in a pan for dinner.
That way you make yourself aware of your habits and patterns, and you actively do something to counteract it.
I'll be honest, I haven't read most of this thread, it was too long
Yes, some people are just overweight, and some overweight people are perfectly healthy, it really depends on the individual, but if you're not taking care of your body you're going to feel guilty about it, and guilt is painful.
You're going to be stuck with your body the rest of your life, treat it with respect. Just like a pet, it requires certain things and as its owner it's your responsibility to provide them.
Just feed it nutritional foods and take it for a walk now and then.
I hope you feel better soon
Step one: eliminate toxins from your diet, such as sugar and partially hydrogenated stuff, etc.
Step two: discover what deficiancies you have and research what foods can fufill what vitamins and minerals you aren't getting and then take the right kind of supplements if you are unable to attain these foods.
Step three: do not worry about what you look like. focus instead on how whatever you put in your body makes you feel. crappy food will drain your energy. good food will give you energy. you can then use that energy to aid you to focus and get even closer to that thing we call Right Concentration... then, who knows where you will go, but i am guessing it wont be to the snack aisle. Use food as a fuel for your journey on the path, not as an escape from it.
Also a good book that preaches all this stuff is called Never Be Sick Again by I forget the author but he is an MD who actually does his own research.
Being overweight isn't a nice thing especially for the ladies. However, looking great shouldn't be a priority in life. I personally have an inner struggle just because I gained 5kgs over 2 years and I am 42kg now. OKOK ... I am not fat but I am not thin in comparison to my height. My point? I am NOT happy that I gained weight. I work almost 20 hours a day doing dharma work with hardly any sleep with exercise being out of the question. However, I keep my mind in check that benefitting others is more important than how I look. If I get obese and die of exhaustion because of that, it's worth it.
I do try to keep healthy as much as I can by becoming a vegetarian which is one of the best thing I have ever done. It saves many lives and it can also save my life (karmically from going to the 3 lower realms as it's very bad karma to kill and eat another being). The higher motivation is what's important and keeps you going. Switch the motivation to wanting a good health so that you can live a longer life to accumulate more merits and benefit others. When you exude compassion and love, everyone will love you NO MATTER HOW FAT you are.
I've lost about a stone; 6.5 kg approx; in the past six months with another stone to go. I did that by eating healthier and running. I'm not eating all those chocolates and crisps I used to eat - you know, the 'naughty stuff'. And I try to keep my portion sizes sensible too.
Last week I lost just under a kilo, this week I've lost .5 kg and I plan to just keep pluggin' away at it.
mastercleanse.org is the site I used, but there is a book called The Master Cleanser that you can download free in PDF form somewhere out there.
Oh and one more thing: food tastes better after you complete the proccess. Who wouldn't want that?
I don't see starving your body for a week as beneficial at all. Aside from that, you gain the weight back and then some when you start eating again.
Hey, some people swear by them and you know, if it works for you, go for it, but I'd warn against recommending it to people without also making it clear that nothing in the medical field supports it, and there is no scientific evidence to support its effectiveness, or even its safety.
Really though, you can't expect anyone who calls themselves a Buddhist - whether they're a monk or someone who's read some books - to be completely objective and master of the Ten Perfections or something. Buddhists, Christians, Muslims, etc etc are still people affected by their emotions and subjective experiences.
Savour every mouthful.
Thank all the people who have helped bring this food to your table each mouthful.
If you are non-vegetarian, say a silent prayer to the animal that gave up its life for you with each mouthful.
Don't eat in front of the television.
Don't eat sitting at the computer.
Only eat in a quiet environment with no distractions so that you can remain mindful.
Good luck!!!! :om:
for me was dramatically eating less.
She reports her surgeon as stating that after over 10 years of being obese there is physical changes which make the weight loss more difficult.
As she now has grandchildren, she wants to maximise her chances of a long life and has also stated that you don't see many obese people in the 80's.
Wondering what others thoughts are on her beliefs?
I live in a Senior community... the median age here is probably around 74-75.
I go to the community pool all summer ( I have an awesome tan, btw!
These are old, fat people who go to the pool several days a week, just like I do (and I'm 'only' 56), and swim for exercise and enjoyment. Some of these old fat people can walk better than I do, and out swim me - any day of the week! Some can't.
But they are there just the same, getting out, exercising and being active.
There are plenty of fat people in nursing homes too... and they aren't there because they are fat; they are there for all the same reasons thin and average size people are in nursing homes. Some may have been fat their whole lives, some may be fat later in life because of other health issues and or mobility limitations. But they're there and they're fat.
Who knows how many old people you see in hospitals or nursing homes that might be thin now because of illness/es having caused them to become thin; such is the case with many cancer survivors and others who had serious diseases and even old-age related depression, which, in many seniors leads to limited eating and or actual eating disorders.
Again, as is always my point when on this topic... you just don't know anything about a person's health or habits, just by looking at them. And even if you did, why should a person be judged for it?
Peace.
Until about 12 years ago, I was just slightly overweight. Then, in quick succession I broke my shoulder and then my elbow, both very bad breaks, and I stopped all exercise for about 4 months. That's when I really put on the pounds. But I seemed to be managing it all physically, and continued doing some hiking, etc. After retiring, I took off 35 pounds, although I actually look fatter now than I did before losing that weight -- old age sag!
Then, a year ago, I started having problems with my heart. Both my regular physician and my cardiologist said the cause of the heart issue was not about eating habits or being overweight. It was a problem that I was born with...my body had just coped with it for 62 years. But, and here's the key point I am trying to make -- I would probably be having the heart issue whether or not I was overweight...but being overweight is making it more difficult for my body to deal with the heart issue and other health issues. For example, my back problems would be better without the extra weight. My planar facitis heel issue would be better without the extra weight. I have to have some surgery sometime after the first of the year -- that would go better without the extra weight.
Intellectually, I know all these things, but I have poor willpower to stop eating more than I need to eat. I have some friends who are much heavier than I, and I really do see it as willpower. One of my friends in diabetic and has to take shots for it...and is the fattest man I have ever personally known...and trust me, in his case, it's all about how much he shovels down. His wife had the gastric bypass surgery...over time she has put all the weight back on...and it is about how much she shovels down. There's a lady at the church I occasionally attend who also had the gastric bypass surgery, and has now gotten back up to over 350 pounds...and she fully admits it's about the volume of food she consumes.
For most of us who are overweight, it's all psychological, and it's our weakness. And we ought to be able to conquer that.
If you look at the Glycemic index, you get a good idea off how bad grains can be for you. Most breads have a GI of 70 to 90. 100 is the highest. Cake and pie is more like 50-60, even candy is lower on the GI than wheat is. Yet our FDA is telling everyone how important it is to eat "whole grains" which send your blood sugar sky high and over years of eating like that, thinking you are eating healthy, you still get fat. Then you develop ulcerative colitis, crohn's, celiac disease, cancer and all sorts of other fun things. All from eating the way we're told to eat. People should be getting their fiber and carbs from fruits and veggies, not grains.
I think we've lost sight of the fact that people are made to be tall, short, fat, thin, hairy, bald, blue eyed or brown, fair skinned or dark, etc etc.
Nearly all these thing we've come to be able to change - through cosmetics and sometimes medical intervention.
We just find it really really difficult to accept that maybe ... just maybe... we can't change EVERYTHING about our bodies.
Let's love ourselves anyway
On an interesting note I read an article the other day about a lady who did a "mirror fast" and didn't see her reflection for 4 months. I found it an interesting topic, and I wondered what it would be like to never know what you look like. It made me wonder the perspective of life-long blind people who don't know what they look like, or what others look like to be able to compare themselves to others and vice versa.