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Does a sense of meaning precede any dharma
Jeffrey
Veteran
If we didn't know what meaning meant could someone else explain it to us? What does meaning mean? It has to be something in the nature of mind that we know what meaning is.
Not sure if anyone will get what I am saying. I am asking how do you fundamentally know what meaning... means?
Not sure if anyone will get what I am saying. I am asking how do you fundamentally know what meaning... means?
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I think it's the starting point of the dharma, but you can move it to advanced ideas I guess.
I believe it to be the starting point because we start with a quest for finding meaning. I am positive it has to do with the dharma. Meaninglessness is the definition of depression and avidya/ignorance.
People don't know where meaning comes from but they are looking for and sense meaning. Like 'your getting warmer.'
I think you kind of act as a gatekeeper of what topics. If you want I can provide a pedigree as this was the topic of a question and answer transcription I am doing for my lama.
The meaning of words is highly depending on the context.
But a question like “What is the meaning of meaning?” can be put in words outside any context.
The fact that it can be put in words suggests it is a meaningful question; but I doubt that it is as an isolated sentence.
Put the question in a context and we can talk about it.
O/T posts removed.
moved to A.I.
I'll start with a talking about it. When I first started Buddhism I was devastated by losing my friends and school career. I was very depressed and thought I had no options. So I started meditating and reading a book about Buddhism. It felt right because 'something was happening.' Maybe I had studied in previous lifetimes I am not sure, but there was a sense of something happening.
So what does that have to do with an intuition of what is meaningful? Well think about it. Why did reading some words in a book about leaves falling and crystals melting - emptiness and all experience as changing? Why did that help and inspire me? Was it just provocative language? How did it cut through a horrendous depression? And then the meditation, I could sit even though the whole day I was worried about what would happen. It was connected to 'one day at a time.'
@federica, maybe change the thread title to 'how did/does a search for meaning inspire you to study and practice.' I'm sorry, I was up all night and maybe couldn't find the right words. Plus high on the wordage of my transcription, at least something accomplished other than walks down memory trying to sleep.
When I read the translation of the Gateless Gate koan collection for the first time, I actually threw the book across the room... I may have kicked it. I got really angry.
It hit on something; and I had no idea what it was. Why didn’t I just shrug and move on?
I’ve had other similar things happen to me where something grabbed me by the throat.
My rational explanation is that we do a lot of our thinking unconsciously.
This sudden sense of ”meaning” is an alarm signal to our conscious mind coming from our unconscious thought-processes.
Just my guess.
Some people are motivated by this search for a deeper meaning to life. Some are not. Maybe most people are not. I was painfully aware that what made me miserable didn't bother a lot of my friends and family at all.
My Zen teacher once said, "Without ego, nothing gets done." I happen to agree with him. Ego is a prerequisite for serious Buddhist students. Ego builds the fire, lights the fuse, and gets us all to practicing...and keep practicing. The fact that ego is a delusion is not the same as realizing and actualizing the fact that ego is a delusion. And that's why we practice -- to actualize what before only excited "meaning" or "belief" or "explanation."
And does it all have a meaning, an importance, or a benevolence?
Sure -- if you like.
Or not -- if you don't.
No big deal: Your life, your choice.
.
Would it mean any less?
Because things are empty of a permanent identity is all the more reason to cherish it while it lasts along with our growth as a whole. If everything lasted forever, life may be taken for granted.
Was I born curious for a reason? I don't know. I do know that I am curious.
I can find meaning in meaninglessness and meaninglessness in meaning.
So yes... Or I mean, yes, I think so.
"Does a sense of meaning precede any dharma?" No, IMO. The dharma is a (wise) man's conclusion upon pondering life's issues, and how to overcome suffering that is present in everyone's lifetime.
After reading and Understanding the proposed theories and actions, you may or may not agree - and give these observations "meaning". Either you accept them after finding that they correspond with similar values of "your own" and they assume value in your life, or they are devoid of meaning for you because they don't fit your mindset/value system.
In itself, the dharma is a theoretical construct, neutral, until you give it meaning and context.
Can someone explain it to you? Yes, but even if you can follow the logic, you may not accept it as a true statement that has value for how you want to fill and structure your life. You have many choices, and they are based on highly personal decisions that correspond with the nature of your (ever changing) views, experiences and knowledge base.
You give things/situations a meaning based on their personal value to you. The same thing/situation has a different meaning for someone else.
Something that was of special importance and had positive meaning can change to something unimportant or even burdensome and the meaning it had received in your view will change as well. So, it is all subjective and dependent on basic values that you have adopted in your life.
All that just IMHO.
'Meaningful' and 'meaningless' amount to the same thing -- a head on top of your perfectly good head.
Is 'a buddha' meaningful or meaningless? Is dog shit on the lawn meaningful or meaningless? Pay attention. Take responsibility. Then the buddhas and piles of dog shit will take care of themselves.
It's not mystical or weird. Look in the bathroom mirror ... how confusing could that possibly be? Or meaningful or meaningless either? Don't waste your time on paradoxes. Just pay attention and take responsibility and let others jabber.
The third leg of the five paths is the warming and the warming gets hotter and hotter until the last experience of samsara and the first bhumi of the bodhisattva path.
This is all coming from a dharma talk I listened to today so bear with me. And I have been up eighteen hours trying to detox from a bunch of meds.
It is interesting that you thought of the dharma as tabula rosa or blank slate. I don't know about that because the whole dharma practice is alive as I see it. The dharma is frozen bodhicitta which some people thought their teacher (Buddha etc).. was so special that they wanted to freeze a part. So it is tabula rosa - frozen I guess.
Not sure I follow you on the 'tabula rasa' angle.... is it a blank slate? All I'm saying is that the Dharma is a theory proposed to you for verification. It is embellished/illustrated with a lot of examples, anecdotal evidence, stories taken from life, yet the core message is a theory on how to avoid suffering.
How can it be a blank slate? It is the product of someone's processed experience, astute observations, and his value system - his interpretation of truth.
You need to be programmed in a fashion congruent with his message to be able to understand its meaning, either by having followed the recommended path already and verifying its effects or by recognizing its potential.
I have a feeling I'm missing the point though, in regards to what you are trying to get at.
I hope you managed to get some sleep. In upsetting, stressful situations, I choose just basic "Sleepytime" tea or valerian. Natural is still chemical, so proceed with caution in your case. Best!!
Ok bored you, but I like to talk about my experiences as a mental patient to show people that it can be talked about. We need to stay together and feel like we are not alone.
I guess I was just associating words with the tabular rasa. What you said in the post above makes sense to me totally.
I'm thinking of trying AA because of the addict mindset, but I don't know if I am overreacting if it would really fit me. I'm going to try Monday.