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What drew you to Buddhism?
I apologize if such a discussion has already been started. These are extensive forums.
I had been introduced to Buddhism (or Buddhist concepts) in the 70's when I met a friend in Mendocino, California who had been associated with Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche at his ashram in Scotland. I believe he came over to the states when Chogyam Trungpa did although details were not solicited at the time and hence are sketchy today. He was a Brit who we all referred to as Jigmy although I believe his given name was Richard Pitchart(?).
I was interested in all kinds of alternative points of view at that time but was somewhat superficial so I never exploited this chance encounter (regret). I kept some level of awareness of the influence of Buddhism for the next 40 years or so, respectfully but never seriously. Then came the influence of the Oracle (i.e., Internet) where there were many forays into the extraodinary and extensive online repositories of information at all levels of understanding about Buddhism.
There were two basic reason why I gravitated to a serious undertaking of Buddhist philosophy and teachings. One was during my url explorations, I found an amazing bit of Buddhist injunction which appealed to me greatly. This was the teaching that you need not believe anything because some revered person said it was so or some sacred book claimed it as truth. You had the obligation to "try it on for size" and demonstrate its validity to yourself. Be it listening to teachings by credible sources, discussions with kindred folks (much like this forum), internal mental reasoning and, of course, meditation, the theory was a withering away of any other accountability of "the real world" and possibly arriving at the final confidence advocated by the tenets of Buddhism. The "come and see" aspect was incredibly attractive. This required no adherence to dogma but instead relied on the honest explorations of individuals to test the precepts avocated until understanding became evident ...or not. It was almost not a religion but more a science of the mind. Of course, it was always emphasized in the literature that I had come across that Buddhism was, at heart, a practice rather than merely an intellectual exercise.
The second influence which drew me to Buddhism as a refuge was the almost limitless and mandatory compassion inherent in Buddhism. Although I am uncertain how this could be done but if you "got" everthing else in Buddhism but not the full experience, practice and benefits of the ocean of compassion advocated by this science, you were likely not going to "get it" and smasara would still be your fate. Additionally, I was not challenged by the concept of compassion. It seemed evident to me that if more compassion were the norm, the world would change for the better. I would not have to test this concept much as my life experience had made this pretty evident. Now, I am not saying I diligently practice the extent of compassion avocated but the concept seemed valid to the point of obviousness. Whereas many theistic religions usually gave adherents an incredibly short amount of time to "get it", the failure of this attainment was eternal damnation. How could that be compassion? If you failed to get it as Buddhist, well, that's a shame. Maybe next time...or next time or ... but eventually, with diligence, practice and the great desire to avoid rebirth and suffering, this was an achievable goal.
So I am wondering what the many stories are from other beginners who might be finding value in this ability to draw increasingly better maps of reality due to the influence of Buddhist wisdom.
I had been introduced to Buddhism (or Buddhist concepts) in the 70's when I met a friend in Mendocino, California who had been associated with Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche at his ashram in Scotland. I believe he came over to the states when Chogyam Trungpa did although details were not solicited at the time and hence are sketchy today. He was a Brit who we all referred to as Jigmy although I believe his given name was Richard Pitchart(?).
I was interested in all kinds of alternative points of view at that time but was somewhat superficial so I never exploited this chance encounter (regret). I kept some level of awareness of the influence of Buddhism for the next 40 years or so, respectfully but never seriously. Then came the influence of the Oracle (i.e., Internet) where there were many forays into the extraodinary and extensive online repositories of information at all levels of understanding about Buddhism.
There were two basic reason why I gravitated to a serious undertaking of Buddhist philosophy and teachings. One was during my url explorations, I found an amazing bit of Buddhist injunction which appealed to me greatly. This was the teaching that you need not believe anything because some revered person said it was so or some sacred book claimed it as truth. You had the obligation to "try it on for size" and demonstrate its validity to yourself. Be it listening to teachings by credible sources, discussions with kindred folks (much like this forum), internal mental reasoning and, of course, meditation, the theory was a withering away of any other accountability of "the real world" and possibly arriving at the final confidence advocated by the tenets of Buddhism. The "come and see" aspect was incredibly attractive. This required no adherence to dogma but instead relied on the honest explorations of individuals to test the precepts avocated until understanding became evident ...or not. It was almost not a religion but more a science of the mind. Of course, it was always emphasized in the literature that I had come across that Buddhism was, at heart, a practice rather than merely an intellectual exercise.
The second influence which drew me to Buddhism as a refuge was the almost limitless and mandatory compassion inherent in Buddhism. Although I am uncertain how this could be done but if you "got" everthing else in Buddhism but not the full experience, practice and benefits of the ocean of compassion advocated by this science, you were likely not going to "get it" and smasara would still be your fate. Additionally, I was not challenged by the concept of compassion. It seemed evident to me that if more compassion were the norm, the world would change for the better. I would not have to test this concept much as my life experience had made this pretty evident. Now, I am not saying I diligently practice the extent of compassion avocated but the concept seemed valid to the point of obviousness. Whereas many theistic religions usually gave adherents an incredibly short amount of time to "get it", the failure of this attainment was eternal damnation. How could that be compassion? If you failed to get it as Buddhist, well, that's a shame. Maybe next time...or next time or ... but eventually, with diligence, practice and the great desire to avoid rebirth and suffering, this was an achievable goal.
So I am wondering what the many stories are from other beginners who might be finding value in this ability to draw increasingly better maps of reality due to the influence of Buddhist wisdom.
0
Comments
In brief?
A book my mother gave me.
"The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying" by Sogyal Rinpoche.
Read it - never looked back.
What reality are you referring to?
Thanks for the welcome, Federica
Reincarnation is a Tibetan Buddhist concept, specifically, and focuses on lamas with a heightened sense of understanding... bodhisattvas.... the Dalai Lama is the most obvious example....re-birth is what most people would refer to....and what befalls Hoi poloi.... re-birth is also an accepted concept, when we consider the impermanence of our own days... we are technically speaking re-born every day, and in fact, when you discover that the body renews itself completely over 10 years, you are absolutely not in any way who you were 11 years ago!
Karma just means 'volitional action', which starts within the Mind as an intentional thought....
Jigmy was referring to this...
It's a valid line of enquiry, but at one point, it's best to just think 'yeah ok, maybe, but I'm open-minded' or 'no, i just can't agree with anything so far, so I'm dropping it.....
the Buddha stated that he merely came to understand the origin of stress/suffering, and the cessation of stress/suffering.
just ask yourself if whatever you're doing is conducive to your practice.....
Through exlporing all kinds of ways and practices I got those answers... but still there was a problem. Buddhism turned the situation it on its head and said "instead of looking for an answer, lets look at the need itself, and the act of reaching for an answer.. Lets look directly at want". That lead to an "answer" with no words.. characterized by the term "non-dukkha". Others may have a very different story..
Except for 'mother' substitute 'local bookshop' and for 'gave' substitute 'sold to'!
I was drawn to the focus on experiencing things for oneself, the lack of omnipotent/omnipresent deities, the humility and relative austerity of it all. I also love the fact that Buddhism is about helping yourself, but at the same time, helping others through helping yourself (using the words "other" and "self" provisionally, of course), as opposed to other religions that are focused on just personal salvation.
Since then I don't stop learning about the Buddha, his life and his teachings.
PD:Shaka's name came from Shaka Nyorai, that is Buddha Shakyamuni in japanese.
Blessing
I am gratified at the various stories associated with the turn to Buddhism from the several commenters. There does seem to be a compelling sense of commonality in many of the revelations.
I am curious if folks who began to tune into the Buddhist message have found the journey somewhat more complicated than originally envisioned. I certainly have not been completely set off course by a more fully realized understanding of the extensive community of practioners and interested parties comprising the enterprise of Buddhism. But it did alter some of my initial cherished simplistic constructs :-).
I was surprised at the amount of conflict between competing lineages which crop up (e.g., NKT-IKBU vs. some other factions of Tibetian Buddhism, Theravada vs. Mayayana, etc.) . The Crazy Wisdom of some of the more controversial yet influential practitioners like Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche. I am not making any implied critique of any of the mentioned parties (as a novice, that would certainly be out of place) but just surprised at the overt conflict within a community devoted to compassion, generosity and discipline. I suppose my initial invention was something on the order of circle the campfire singing kumbaya and vibrating in blissful meditational harmony (please don't laugh too much). I know that this is the hardest thing I will ever attempt.
These "clarifications" have made it all the more instructive to me as to how much of the process involves the practioner themself. Teachers and evolved laypersons can be very helpful but it appears that the journey is primarily directed by the person seeking the goal, as, I suppose, it should be for a non-dogma methodology.
And, as a personal note, I think I may have discovered a very valuable community of like minded folks who will help me iron out some of my more difficult moments. Thank you. I kinda feel welcomed.
**** Who said I 'accepted the whole package'...? ****
My conclusion that much of the tenets of Buddhism which Federica seemed to have accepted were (likely incorrectly) inferred by the remark "Read it - never looked back" I can see that my inference was too inclusive and I sincerely apologize at my misinterpretation of her remarks. I think I failed to gloss over any untoward inference by my remark about the "old soul" which helped ...not so much.
**** Reincarnation is a Tibetan Buddhist concept... ****
However it seems somewhat harsh to blame reincarnation on the Tibetans since this was a concept already at play in the Indian culture of Buddha's time and, my understanding is that this was not rejected by Buddhism. It was even revealed that the Buddha, in an aspect of his total enlightenment beyond suffering and ignorance is that he was able to remember all his past lives. This would seem to have preceeded Tibetan influences by centuries.
**** Karma just means 'volitional action', which starts within the Mind as an intentional thought.... ****
It certainly seems that karma is properly defined by you as volitional action but it seems influential in next life determinations. Is this not the measure of the quality of rebirth? I find this concept difficult to grok in fullness but I believe it is part of the collective wisdom we are challengened to "get". I could stand more clarifying distinctions, I'm sure.
**** Jigmy was referring to this... ****
A more involved discussion with Jigmy actually took place and I did not think to elaborate on it (many folks think I am too windy as it is ;-) involving much the same points you made. If the exploration of this topic advanced the Cause by even a little bit, it would be worth while. Otherwise ... . Still, the concepts of rebirth and karma are surely part of the concepts Buddhism enjoins us to demonstrate to ourselves although the Buddha and many commentators find it a completely secondary consideration (so did Jigmy). I can envision a sturdy and useful Buddhism wherein after death nothing survives or is transmuted. Just oblivion. What would be the purpose of Buddhism then since the task is so difficult, one lifetime would seem to be inadequate to explore to any satisfactory outcome? A measure of a meaningful addressing of life in this mode as opposed to the kinds of suffering and ignorance one would otherwise experience. That advantage in itself would seem to justify the great efforts involved in understanding and disciplining the Buddhist way in spite of the assumed time constraint.
Obviously, I do not 'know' what happens after physical death. I am using rebirth and karma as working hypothesis' for as long as it serves the purpose of construction of an understanding of how things work and what may be.
As to your advise "just ask yourself if whatever you're doing is conducive to your practice", I submit to that wisdom and thank you for offering it before I possibly spin out of control in some sort of unadvised high speed wobble.
I sincerely hope this clarifies some of my meanderings even if it does not excuse my overreach ...and we are friends again.
Finding my teacher was not easy - although I have been always been drawn towards Tibetan Buddhism for practice, I return to the Pali Suttas for clarification and I love reading Western teachers writings from Theravada traditions, especially the Thai Forest tradition of Ajahn Chah.
i was merely speaking contextually. again, there was no implication on my part that this isn't the case. Karma - or Kamma - and rebirth are two fundamental teachings of the Buddha.
the website (whence came the 4 unconjecturables' link) is a very good one for further exploration and clarification.
However, too much thinking on such matters is apt to tie our minds in knots and just lead us to more frustrating ponderings. A healthy investigation is one thing - a mind so distracted by musings that it fails to see the wood for the trees - is quite another. Simplify.
study the 4 the 8 and the 5.
believe it or not, a deep and all-encompassing understanding of these 17 will be all you need.
and comprehension and practice will take you a lifetime. I never thought we weren't...
It seems to me that you over-think things, and perhaps, you add 2 and 2 and come up with 7.
You need to breathe and relax, and not constantly overwhelm yourself with rambling thoughts on paper... occasionally, it pays to just sit back, and instead of actively seeking answers, just sit, 'be'... and let the answers come to us.
But that's humans for you.
I think that most things that Buddhists argue about (and this can be applied to other religions as well) are just window dressing - the core principles are agreed upon, and are the backbone of Buddhist practice.
Every time I heard anything about Buddhism, I became more interested, eventually I sought out more information and here I am.