Am I the only one who thinks Buddhism is just a 'Common sense way to live or am i missing something?

zenmyste

Firstly, I want say that I completely agree with Buddha. And if someone did ask me if im a buddhist then of course id say 'yes' because i do follow his teachings..

However, I dont follow his teachings because they are from the BUDDHA..
I kind of feel that the buddhas teachings are just an obvious way to live..

and we dont necessarily 'need' buddha to tell us that:

1. Life is suffering
2. The origin of suffering is attachment
3. The cessation of suffering 'is' attainable
4. The path to the cessation of suffering is the 8 fold path..

And then we have the precepts which are even 'more' just common sense

1....dont harm living beings. (i dont and never have done)
2....dont steal. (i have never and why woud i?)
3....sexual misconduct. (we all know its wrong to cheat on your boyfriend/girlfriend)
4....false speech. (we all know its wrong to lie, buddha doesnt need to tell us that)
5....intoxicating drinks and drugs.. (again we know that this damages the mind etc etc)

I personally lived by these precepts anyway ''before'' i even got into Buddhism

and i know many many other people who live this way and are not 'Buddhists'

And last but not least, the '8 fold path' (just like the 10 comandments, they are pretty basic obvious stuff that we should all be living by anyway whether or not you are a buddhist follower)


1. Right View
2. Right Intention
3. Right Speech
4. Right Action
5. Right Livelihood
6. Right Effort
7. Right Mindfulness
8. Right Concentration

(this list surely isnt a mystery way to live.. and even before i got into buddhism i probably followed something simular just because 'i am just a nice normal human' and i also have compassio for others just this is just what i do naturally, i help others, feel for them, do charity work etc etc and i am just a nice, normal person who works hard for my family..... so whats suppose to be so important about buddhas teaching?

I guess to be honest i only got into buddhism because it stated everything that i 'knew' and lived by anyway..


or is there something i dont know?
what is it that buddha learned and taught that we dont already know?

Thanks for reading.
kind, kind regards..

(p.s, i do understand that there are disturbed people out there who 'could' benifit from buddhism, like murderers, thiefs, etc etc, dont im soley talking about myself when i say, i was raised into a family that 'naturally' help others and are geerally nice people anyway.. we natually do alot for others without thinking about buddhism etc etc..

I hope you understand my words and what im trying to say.

X

searchingone

Part of the path is living simply, and to live simply and effectively on this planet, common sense is of high importance. You've pretty much summed up a good amount of Buddhism. This is why some would argue it is a philosophy and way of life, rather than a 'religion' as such.

Sadly, you'd be surprised that people need someone to tell them these things. I bet when you were a child and new to the world, you didn't realize if another kid hit you, it's still not ok to hit back. In some ways, we all need teachers and guides on subjects. While not strict to Buddha or any religion, we all need direction to function in our society

Sabre

what is it that buddha learned and taught that we dont already know?

Hi,

The Buddha said there are two kinds of right view. The first one is the 'mundane' right view you are talking about. Surely, this is a part of Buddhism. But the 'noble' right view is another part. This is the view that leads to awakening, which is the understanding of the four noble truths at its fullest, which includes dependent arising and non self; things that are really not that obvious.

So Buddhism is not only about being a moral and right person. It is also about training the mind to be able to see reality as it is, and through that, letting go of craving.

And what is right view? Right view, I tell you, is of two sorts: There is right view with effluents [asava], siding with merit, resulting in the acquisitions [of becoming]; and there is noble right view, without effluents, transcendent, a factor of the path.

"And what is the right view that has effluents, sides with merit, & results in acquisitions? 'There is what is given, what is offered, what is sacrificed. There are fruits & results of good & bad actions. There is this world & the next world. There is mother & father. There are spontaneously reborn beings; there are brahmans & contemplatives who, faring rightly & practicing rightly, proclaim this world & the next after having directly known & realized it for themselves.' This is the right view that has effluents, sides with merit, & results in acquisitions.

"And what is the right view that is without effluents, transcendent, a factor of the path? The discernment, the faculty of discernment, the strength of discernment, analysis of qualities as a factor for Awakening, the path factor of right view of one developing the noble path whose mind is noble, whose mind is free from effluents, who is fully possessed of the noble path. This is the right view that is without effluents, transcendent, a factor of the path.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.117.than.html

With metta,
Sabre

Floating_Abu

or is there something i dont know?
what is it that buddha learned and taught that we dont already know?

Hi @zenmyste

If you are asking if there are different levels to Buddhist practice, I think that yes there are.

For the depths of practice (read: practice, not discuss/belief/espousing) available, one can refer to the Diamond Sutra, Prajnaparamita Sutra, Lankavatara Sutra, Vimalakīrti Sutra.

That said, Gautama Buddha also clearly said that he had hidden nothing, so everything is there to understand, practice, and thereby live by.

I hope this helps, and I think the rest will depend on if you are really interested in Buddhist practice or casual reading/discussion/belief. If it is the latter, there is also absolutely nothing wrong this, but if it is the former then I would encourage you not to stop at the limited and self serving belief/intellectual beliefs that are all too common, even within Buddhist circles. Then I would say yes, there is a bit more to it than what you say, but this cannot be adequately explained to you here and you would have to enter the ring of fire i.e. experience yourself to learn and live these teachings as taught, as you wish.

Best wishes,
Abu

genkaku

Buddhism is common sense -- yes.

The trick is to actualize what anyone might already know.

vinlyn

OP, overall I tend to agree with you, and as Searchingone seems to be saying, perhaps how we look at it (whether we look at it as "his" wisdom, or wisdom) determines whether we are looking at it results in whether we, as individuals, see it as a religion or a philosophy.

I also agree that much, and perhaps most, of what we learn in Buddhism appears to be "common sense". But I think back at my years as a principal working with 23 other middle school principals in my district, and realizing that not everyone has "common sense", and, as Genkaku says, the ability to put things together. I guess what I'm trying to say is that Buddha pu things together in a very comprehensive package of wisdom, which others weren't doing (for the most part). So, I look at Buddha as a leader.

Of course, others, including on this forum, want to add in a "magical mystery show", and that's where it begins to become more of a religion. And that's okay. They may be correct.

zenmyste

It just seems as if, 2500 years ago, people might not have 'known' what we now know in this modern world.
Its kind of 'common sense' that we should 'not lie, not steal, not this, not that, etc etc..

But maybe 2500 years ago, people didnt know very much and so when Buddha realised this 'common sense' path, people were blown away by it.

But in our modern world, Buddhism doesnt blow me away, because i already agreed with what it was saying anyway...

I do follow the path, but what im saying is, I would have followed the path anyway, coz im a nice, normal, person..

I know life is suffering, i know suffering comes from craving, and coz of this i dont have many desires, (i dont harm myself with desires)

I naturally live by the 8 fold path (and 10 commandments)
and i know many people who do aswell who dont necessarily call themselves ''BUDDHISTS''



perhaps prince siddhartha was just 'ahead of his time with his thinkng'

x

Enso

Do you think you have fully realized the illusion of self @zenmyste?

Or do you think there is nothing to realize in that respect?

What's your interpretation?

Do you suffer any kind of anxiety? Or are you free from all anxiety?

zenmyste

Do you think you have fully realized the illusion of self @zenmyste?

Or do you think there is nothing to realize in that respect?

What's your interpretation?

Do you suffer any kind of anxiety? Or are you free from all anxiety?

I dont know to be really honest.

I just feel that when I look closely at the Buddhas teachings, there is nothing that i dont already know but i agree with them which is why im into 'buddhism'. And I have asked the same question many times ''do people think there is a special feeling that buddha experienced?'

or did he just experience an 'ahhh, now i get it' feeling..
Because this 'ahh moment' is more realistic because his teachings are pretty basic and common sense (for this current world) but back then 2500 years ago it might have been a way which no one knew before...

When you asked me if ''do you think there is nothing to realize..''
i would have to say that i think that the only thing we have to realize is that there is nothing to actually realize. ( i had this feeling awhile back and ever since ive been asking others what their interpretation is on Buddhas Enlightenment.

zenmyste

like i said; Im personally just starting to think that Buddha was just ahead of his time. (in the way he thought)
What he understood back then, is something that over many many years has become an 'obvious way to live' now..

It kinda feels like there 'must' have been 'some' people back in his day who heard his teachings and thought 'oh yes i know that already, i live like that anyway etc etc..'

Buddhism just reminds me of a great 'way of live' in which 'i' personally and many other people live that way anyway.. whether we call ourselves Buddhists or not..

Arthurbodhi

If is so obvious, why so few people actually do it?

vinlyn

Arthurbodi, while I don't think it's all quite as obvious as Zenmyste believes, I don't think what I'll shorten to "right living" is all that difficult to understand, either.

There's a difference between knowing right and wrong, and doing it.

ThailandTom

IMO as it has been said yes it is obvious in one sense, but then the obvious isn't always so easy to see when you are covered by attachment, desire and delusion. If it was so obvious and so easy, the majority of humans would be walking around as enlightened beings.

Telly03

The more we get caught up in technical advances, the more our ego is fed, evolving us further from the simple and obvious answers.

ThailandTom

I was going to mention that as well @Telly03 2,500 years ago if anything people on average were probably more in touch with their spiritual life than the average person of today due to more and more attachments.

Arthurbodhi

I agree with you @vinlyn but if someone don't do a thing, maybe that person don't complete undertand it in a first place. Just guessing.

zenmyste

If it was so obvious and so easy, the majority of humans would be walking around as enlightened beings.

I'm starting to think that there are a lot more enlightened people walking around than we think.
In fact, I believe there are more enlightened people who 'don't' study buddhism than those who actually call themselves 'buddhists'

:-)

person

When the Buddha was asked to sum up his teachings in one statement he said, "Refrain from doing harm, learn to be kind, purify the mind." You asked if you are missing something and I think you are missing the last part.

Mountains

...realizing that not everyone has "common sense"

Rarer than unobtainium ore deposits. Possibly the rarest thing in the universe, and certainly the most uncommon!

Enso

@zenmyste My personal interpretation this that yes, it is a 'common-sense' path of morality and wisdom, like you I became attracted to the teachings because I saw a lot of sense in the teachings and they confirmed a lot of what I had intuitively come to cultivate in myself. I feel I have always had a decent, innate 'moral-compass', sometimes this was more obscured by my selfishness that at other times if I'm honest, but it's always been there whether I chose to ignore it or not. I always knew people weren't innately 'bad'; that it could happen to anyone (for example I became very interested in Nazi Germany and the psychology behind all that). The older I've become, the wiser I've become; I believe in continuously striving to become a better person, that there's always room for improvement. I'm less of a "know-all" than I was when I was in my teens/twenties; I'm less opinionated than I was, etc., etc.

But having said that, I'm wary of thinking that that is all there is to the path (not to belittle basic morality of course), from experience I have found that the meditation aspect of practice to leads to some pretty profound experiences (experiences that I know I mustn't get attached to or further deluded by). And the path leads ultimately, if you're lucky, to full awakening and full cessation of dukkha. From what I can ascertain, if one were to reach deeper and deeper levels of meditation it would ultimately lead to directly perceiving impermanence, suffering and no-self at the most deepest and fundamental level. Very deep psychological unbinding would then occur. This will then free one of the deep rooted suffering and anxiety which, because most of us know no difference, live with on a daily basis and thus think of as the normal state, completely overlooking the suffering. I've read in a sutta (can't remember which one) where the Buddha basically says this; that the unawakened don't actually realize that they are suffering on this level because to them it is their normal state and they have nothing to compare it to.

But I also think there are different levels of "awakening" and depending on the personality of the individual prior to awakening experience the "before and after" can be quite startling. Some of us suffer more and are more deluded than others. Eckhart Tolle for example was a deeply troubled individual prior to his awakening experience (coincidentally he was not consciously following the Buddhist path when this occurred), and that before & after transformation shows quite blatantly - he's almost in shock by his enlightenment.

But at the end of the day, I love the practice and Buddhism in part because of it's ambiguity and the unresolved, open-ended aspects. And I love the way the teachings work on multiple levels. There are two sides of me; the rational one that likes everything explained and rationalized, and the other side of me, the spontaneous, creative side that loves the ambiguous, paradoxical and unresolved. Some might call it left and right hemispheres of the brain, Alan Watts calls it gooey prickles and prickly goo.

zenmyste

When the Buddha was asked to sum up his teachings in one statement he said, "Refrain from doing harm, learn to be kind, purify the mind." You asked if you are missing something and I think you are missing the last part.

Ok, so the definition of 'Purify' can be = 'Cleanse or To free from sin, guilt, or other defilement..'

So if one 'did' refrain from doing harm and was naturally Kind, and his mind was free from Guilt, sin and other defilement.... THEN WHAT?

Are you saying, thats ''it'' = Thats the Enlightenment way. Thats the Dharma, Thats what Prince Siddhartha figured out and taught?

Because if so, then i still believe its common sense and there are people in the world who 100% know this and do walk that path naturally 'without' necessarily even knowing about buddhism..

I believe some people are walking Buddhas path without even knowing what Buddhism is.. (because to 'some' and 'only some' it is a common sense way to live..

:-)

ThailandTom

I would suggest that to purify the mind is to remove such delusions as the self and 'I'. When that is gone, the ego is gone, when the ego is gone, there is not clinging and therefore no suffering. What you stated about sin and guilt all stems from the ego which is also responsible for every war and act of crime.

person

@zenmyste Is there anything in the Buddhist teachings that does challenge your worldview or that you've come to later understand?

Floating_Abu

Let your aim be Nibbana

zenmyste

I just think that "buddhas teachings are just a 'method' to experience reality and not reality itself.."
Its just a 'way', a 'path'..
And I just believe that 'this path' is a common sense one to some..
Of course there will be some people who don't think its common sense and really benifit from it because they 'need' it in their lives. They need a direction, they need a 'path' because they might not be able to see 'right from wrong' or they might not understand that by 'lying' they are causing suffering to themselves and others etc etc....


But on the other hand, I believe some people don't necessarily 'need' buddhism because they live that way anyway..
So they 'are' buddhists (without knowing their buddhists) lol

That's all I'm saying! X

:-)

Enso

Okay, I had an awakening experience in my early twenties. This was before I knew anything about Buddhism. It just occurred spontaneously. One morning I woke up and all my worries had simply evaporated, it was a feeling of complete peace and buoyancy and confidence; no fetters whatsoever. It's hard to describe such a feeling, very unlike the usual ups and downs of normal day-to-day experience. I just couldn't understand why I felt that way, there was no explanation for it whatsoever. As time went on this faded and I went the other way, into what I can only describe as a psychological breakdown. Which I eventually recovered from, ego still in tact. In hindsight I'm pretty sure that if I had the benefit of the experienced guidance of a teacher and the support of a shanga and the context of the teachings things might have turned out differently. I was simply unprepared for it at the time and it kicked my ass.

Jeffrey

My lama says that she keeps practicing because she sees how she is still resistant to changes. Anyone doesn't like it when things don't go their way. We don't have control of 'things'. But we can cultivate renunciation and insight into the nature of impermanence.

Jeffrey

There is a zen master on record saying that a buddha is someone who doesn't make a nuisance of them self. Not a dharma talk, but one of those zen things where somebody asked him a question "what is a buddha?" and that was his answer. You know like "does a dog have buddha nature?"

Jeffrey

@Enso that might be an experience like bipolar. Those illnesses are a spectrum and many people experience 'colors brighter' hypomania. (hypo means below full)

Enso

@Jeffrey Yeah, I've already considered that. But I'm pretty sure it wasn't. It's the only time it happened and the experience didn't match the symptoms of bipolar. But then again it might have nothing to do with an awakening experience either.

Enso

But to be fair it's all working of the mind at the end of the day isn't it? Tolle's enlightenment was brought about by a deep depressive episode. And I've read articles on schizophrenia in terms of Buddhist psychology relating to the ego.

zenmyste

Tolle's enlightenment was brought about by a deep depressive episode

Do you believe Tolle is genuinly Enlightened? And if so, was he on the Buddhist path?

Enso

I've already answered that in one of my posts above @zenmyste. The lengthy post about 12 comments up.

Enso

Obviously you must not have read it, but for your convenience I'll re-post the paragraph in question:

But I also think there are different levels of "awakening" and depending on the personality of the individual prior to awakening experience the "before and after" can be quite startling. Some of us suffer more and are more deluded than others. Eckhart Tolle for example was a deeply troubled individual prior to his awakening experience (coincidentally he was not consciously following the Buddhist path when this occurred), and that before & after transformation shows quite blatantly - he's almost in shock by his enlightenment.

Enso

Please read the entire comment that quote is taken from. That is if you really want to know my answer to the question posed in the OP @zenmyste. That is my interpretation of the path.

zenmyste

(coincidentally he was not consciously following the Buddhist path when this occurred)

This is interesting. So if he wasnt consciously following the Buddhist path and still attained Enlightenment, this makes me think that the Buddhist Path definitely isnt the 'only' way then. Which I never thought was anyway..

Thanks. :-)

Enso

Of course it's not the only way. But I'd say the chances of it happening without a refined practice and teacher and a lot of conscious effort and cultivation are like winning the lottery, or getting struck by lightening.

Enso

And as to whether Tolle is "fully enlightened" who is to say?

Enso

I think I know a video you'd be very interested in @zenmyste. I'll try and find it...

zenmyste

I think I know a video you'd be very interested in @zenmyste. I'll try and find it...

Very kind and thoughtful of you. Thanks. :-)

Enso

zenmyste

Thanks for video. I obviously havent watched it all yet, but it seems really interesting. And it actually seems very 'ZEN'

I personally like the Zen thought (or at least what i think is zen)

And thats to just BE....in the moment. Whether i am sad or happy. Just accept and embrace. I personally dont believe one can fully remove all emotions and completely put an end to all suffering. I believe that one can only handle their emotions better than others. (by accepting what is... and living moment by moment)

I think maybe ''the difference between an Enlightened man and non enlightened man is; one of them 'reacts' to their problems whilst the other 'responds' to them..''

Simon

And last but not least, the '8 fold path' (just like the 10 comandments, they are pretty basic obvious stuff that we should all be living by anyway whether or not you are a buddhist follower)

this list surely isnt a mystery way to live.. and even before i got into buddhism i probably followed something simular just because 'i am just a nice normal human' and i also have compassio for others just this is just what i do naturally, i help others, feel for them, do charity work etc etc

Perhaps this is a small point but in my opinion at least, the 8 Fold Path is a far superior code for living than it's Old Testament equivalent. Half of the commandments have got nothing to do with ethics and instead focus on pointless theology.

I don't know that the 8 Fold Path is entirely obvious. You seem to make the assumption that people are naturally kind and well-meaning; and there's a lot of philosophers and scientists who would beg to differ, take a look at Thomas Hobbes and the State of Nature for example. Also isn't it a little extreme to divide society into 'nice normal humans' and the 'disturbed'? I'm certain that there is a middle ground of normal people who live ethically acceptable lives but lack right mindfulness and right concentration etc, in various aspects of their lives. I know I do

Enso

RichardH

@zenmyste. It is not common sense IMHO. Common sense says keep filling up and maybe one day you will be full. It says keep rearranging things and eventually you will get it right. Common sense says it is possible to achieve a final happiness if you just do the right thing...find the right combo.. the right secret.

Buddhism says "no" to all these things.. it says there is no satisfaction. Then it suggests something that goes against all your instincts. It suggests training to sit with dissatisfaction and boredom... until sitting one more second is the last thing you want to do.. until you would rather do anything but sit there one more second. ...but you stay there training to be aware of that whole situation.. that whole state. And you keep doing that... and keep doing that... it is a total let-down. Then.... maybe... all that "I-want" dies..... and when that dies..... there is what can only be called "Non-dukkha" or "non-suffering", .... because to call it anything else is just spinning off more worlds. That is when you actually begin to practice Buddhism.. and not just be inspired by it, or by insights, and aspirations.. or dogma ... or telling yourself things..


And.. for that to happen there is IMHO only one realistic, practical, thing to do. Find a practice community, a sangha.. with a teacher, or at least some people who have been practicing for a long time,... commit to it.. develop discipline... get the form.. and do that practice... keep that form. Cleverness will not help, just learning the form and doing it with your whole body and mind.... and sticking with it.

seeker242

“Common sense is not so common.”
~Voltaire

vinlyn

Perhaps this is a small point but in my opinion at least, the 8 Fold Path is a far superior code for living than it's Old Testament equivalent. Half of the commandments have got nothing to do with ethics and instead focus on pointless theology.

Naturally a Buddhist is likely to say that. Most of the world would disagree.

Jeffrey

In some traditions the refuge vow includes not taking any Gods or beings and such other than Buddha. So it's not totally different than the ten commandments. Of course this isn't super strict. Lama Surya Das advocates praying to Jesus or whatever feels emotional and meaningful for you as a western practitioner. Tibetan Buddhism has a devotional component. The word for prayer has no subject or object in Tibetan language.

misecmisc1

what is it that buddha learned and taught that we dont already know?

My theoretical understanding of Buddha's teachings says: Everything is conditioned, except Nirvana. All conditioned things are unworthy of attachment because all conditioned things are impermanent(anicca), unsatisfactory(dukkha) and not-self(anatta). Whatever is perceived through the 5 senses, there is no entity anywhere, but rather are processes which arise and fall because of their conditions arising and falling. The cessation of all conditions is Nirvana. Until Nirvana is not realized, the mass of suffering through the cycle of birth and death continues.

The mind needs to be trained through meditation to realize its calm through mindfulness(sati) and clear comprehension(sampajanna), through which wisdom(panna) shall arise to know the above things through direct experience, rather than through theoretical understanding. Only when the above things are directly experienced, then the root fetter of ignorance(avidya) can be removed completely.

Above is based on my theoretical understanding of Buddha's teachings, but till now i have not experienced anything with direct experience.

Whatever is written above, i think it does not come in common-sense category and i think most of the persons don't even know this till now, moreover if they know, then also the main thing is to directly experience the above things till it leads to directly experience the unconditioned, which I think only Buddha did as per my limited knowledge.

zenmyste

“Common sense is not so common.”
~Voltaire

I didnt say common sense was 'common'.. I said Buddhas teachings was 'common sense'.

;-)

I also want to make it clear that im not saying 'everyone' will think this. of course they wont.
Im only saying buddhism is a way in which people 'think' and then a way of life in which one can practice.. and i know for 100% fact that some people 'naturally' live this way 'without' being into Buddhism.. so for these people, the buddhas teachings are pretty basic and common sense..

What im trying to say then is; i dont believe there is anything in buddhas teachings that becomes an original way to live for this modern world.(it might have been original 2500 years ago). But i naturally live 'buddhas' way anyway.. few people do in fact.. (not everyone obviously coz there are some people who are very disturbed and do harmful things to others etc etc)

what about BODHISATTVA'S then???
i have also come across people who could be considered a ''bodhisattva''

and what im saying is, to 'these' people, i bet the buddhas teachings are just a natural way to live... i bet its nothing new to them. i bet they wont 'need' buddhism to tell them this or tell them that... they just are naturally KIND, COMPASSIONATE, UNSUFFERING BEINGS..

(only my opinion though)

zenmyste

In this clip on '18 seconds', the monk says something in which has made alot of things clearer, and summed up Alot about buddha and his teachings and all the different traditions...

The words he says are *''I'' 'dont' ''Think'' that the buddha saw it that way*

This is the very first time i have realized fully that everything is an opinion. Even to what we all think buddha was trying to say or did etc etc.. everything is just their opinion, hence all the different traditions..
No one will ever know the ultimate truth, and the most important thing is to stay 'true' to oneself.
And like someone has mentioned above '''Refrain from doing harm, learn to be kind, purify the mind'''

As long as we can do this, then thats the most important, which ever way, path or tradition we choose. There is no 'right' or wrong. If it works for you, it works for you.

Thanks so much for that video 'ENSO'.. :-)
Stay blessed friend!