Idle Chatter

chenjie

When defining "right speech", Buddha said to refrain from idle chatter.
What is this? Should I not speak at all? (I won't if necessary)

person

It's talk that is based off of negative emotions. Such as gossiping about someone behind their back or talking about the sweet new rims you tricked out your car with. I don't think it really includes small talk as a politeness or asking someone about their day.

vinlyn

I think @person is correct. A word I sometimes use is "petty", which has an implication to it...not just "small talk", but talk that is unwholesome.

genkaku

In one sense, all talk is small talk, however many distinctions may be made.

Best just to be attentive, I think.

DairyLama

When defining "right speech", Buddha said to refrain from idle chatter.
What is this? Should I not speak at all? (I won't if necessary)

It's difficult not to speak in everyday life. But if you've been on a silent retreat you'll know unecessary most speech actually is. So perhaps "idle chatter" means pointless conversation?

Cinorjer

The prohibition against "idle chatter" falls into the same catagory as not being allowed to watch a street performer or play: prohibitions designed for monks who were probably getting a little too loose discipline-wise at the time. Idle conversation is also known as socializing, and has a time and place where it is necessary and when you should be quiet. I agree the translation could be updated to say "gossip" which is more accurately not right speech.

person

The prohibition against "idle chatter" falls into the same catagory as not being allowed to watch a street performer or play: prohibitions designed for monks who were probably getting a little too loose discipline-wise at the time. Idle conversation is also known as socializing, and has a time and place where it is necessary and when you should be quiet. I agree the translation could be updated to say "gossip" which is more accurately not right speech.

While I agree with the overall statement, its the vinaya that covers rules for monks. Idle speech is in a seperate category.

driedleaf

I believe idle chatter is just using speech untimely or just talking too much. Gossip would fall under divisive speech.

"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sacca/sacca4/samma-vaca/index.html

Floating_Abu

What about inner chatter? Quiet that, and there will be significantly less idle chatter IMO.

In Buddhism, it's the substance that matters most IMO

pegembara

I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was staying in Savatthi at Jeta's Grove, Anathapindika's monastery. Now at that time a large number of monks, after the meal, on returning from their alms round, had gathered at the meeting hall and were engaged in many kinds of bestial topics of conversation: conversation about kings, robbers, & ministers of state; armies, alarms, & battles; food & drink; clothing, furniture, garlands, & scents; relatives; vehicles; villages, towns, cities, the countryside; women & heroes; the gossip of the street & the well; tales of the dead; tales of diversity, the creation of the world & of the sea; talk of whether things exist or not.

Then the Blessed One, emerging from his seclusion in the late afternoon, went to the meeting hall and, on arrival, sat down on a seat made ready. As he was sitting there, he addressed the monks: "For what topic of conversation are you gathered together here? In the midst of what topic of conversation have you been interrupted?"

"Just now, lord, after the meal, on returning from our alms round, we gathered at the meeting hall and got engaged in many kinds of bestial topics of conversation: conversation about kings, robbers, & ministers of state; armies, alarms, & battles; food & drink; clothing, furniture, garlands, & scents; relatives; vehicles; villages, towns, cities, the countryside; women & heroes; the gossip of the street & the well; tales of the dead; tales of diversity, the creation of the world & of the sea; talk of whether things exist or not."

"It isn't right, monks, that sons of good families, on having gone forth out of faith from home to the homeless life, should get engaged in such topics of conversation, i.e., conversation about kings, robbers, & ministers of state... talk of whether things exist or not.

"There are these ten topics of [proper] conversation. Which ten? Talk on modesty, on contentment, on seclusion, on non-entanglement, on arousing persistence, on virtue, on concentration, on discernment, on release, and on the knowledge & vision of release. These are the ten topics of conversation. If you were to engage repeatedly in these ten topics of conversation, you would outshine even the sun & moon, so mighty, so powerful — to say nothing of the wanderers of other sects."


Kathavatthu Sutta: Topics of Conversation

Sabre

The prohibition against "idle chatter" falls into the same catagory as not being allowed to watch a street performer or play: prohibitions designed for monks who were probably getting a little too loose discipline-wise at the time. Idle conversation is also known as socializing, and has a time and place where it is necessary and when you should be quiet. I agree the translation could be updated to say "gossip" which is more accurately not right speech.

While I agree with the overall statement, its the vinaya that covers rules for monks. Idle speech is in a seperate category.

Indeed. Not using idle speech is a part of the 8-fold path, which applies to both monks and the laity.

Talking about trivial things can be useful when calming people, creating unity, or brightening them (or yourself) up a bit. Then it is the oppisite of divisive speech. So, idle speech I think is talking just for the talking, whatever the subject may be. This behavior seems to be present in women especially But of course also men.

I think the Buddha also forbade monks to be totally silent once, if I'm not mistaken.

Metta!

federica

What about inner chatter? Quiet that, and there will be significantly less idle chatter IMO.

In Buddhism, it's the substance that matters most IMO

Excellent point.

DairyLama

What about inner chatter? Quiet that, and there will be significantly less idle chatter IMO.

I'd also get rid of mobile phones...

federica

like, like like!! ^^

Floating_Abu

The porpoise is funny

And a relevant from Luang Pu Dune Atulo:

In one of Luang Pu's branch meditation monasteries there lived a group of five or six monks who wanted to be especially strict in their practice, so they made a vow not to talk throughout the Rains Retreat. In other words, no word would come out of their mouths except for the daily chanting and the bi-weekly Patimokkha chant. After the end of the Rains they came to pay their respects to Luang Pu and told him of their strict practice: In addition to their other duties, they were also able to stop speaking for the entire Rains.

Luang Pu smiled a bit and said,

"That's pretty good. When there's no speaking, then no faults are committed by way of speech. But when you say that you stopped speaking, that simply can't be. Only the noble ones who enter the refined attainment of cessation, where feeling and perception stop, are able to stop speaking. Aside from them, everyone's speaking all day and all night long. And especially those who vow not to speak: They talk more than anyone else, simply that they don't make a sound that others can hear."

Source: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai/dune/giftsheleft.html