Will it be the Higgs boson?

SattvaPaul

Scientists at the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) are expected to reveal on Wednesday the strongest evidence yet for the Higgs particle.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18693744


It all sounds very exciting, if they indeed find the Higgs boson I wonder what larger implications it will have for our understanding of the universe.

Anybody here with the interest or knowledge of quantum physics that can comment?

federica

I quote a friend:

The Higgs-Boson (if it exists), is just another sub-atomic particle. It's existence has been theorised (hence the name) by physicists as a 'best-fit' for our current 'best' understanding of the plethora of sub-atomic particles that make up atoms. Whilst many scientists have created this theoretical model of atoms structure, with some bits being missing (eg the Higgs-Boson) and most agree that with our current understanding is is 'probably' correct, this is by no means definite.

If the Higgs-Boson is found it will strengthen the argument for this 'model, that is all. It is deemed so important because without it much if not all of this theoretical model falls apart, but even if it is 'proved' not to exist that does not mean that the model is totally incorrect, it just needs revising.

But also bear in mind that this is not the only model of reality that has been formulated.

String thoery, which proposes that all matter is simply small 'segments' of pure energy vibrating at differing frequencies is still in favour with some people.

I have no doubt that if the Higgs-Boson doesn't exist the model will be revisited and other possibilities put forward that will then become our 'best understanding'. This is how science works.

If it is found it will strengthen our 'belief' for want of a better word in the model we have created. It still leaves many many questions unanswered.

That is why IMO it is wrong to call it the God-Particle. Important , yes, but God, No.

Even if it is found and proven to fit the model as we think it will theologists will pay it little attention, the didn't with all the other sub-atomic particles.

I get it, but only at this level.
As another friend responded,

Thanks for taking time to clarify the Higgs-Boson for me too as science interests me, but I just don't have the mind for it.

I ditto that.

SattvaPaul

So no grand unified theory or anything..? That's pretty disappointing. Anyway I hope they find it, even though find is not the best word, rather agree on its existence.

SattvaPaul

DairyLama

It all sounds very exciting, if they indeed find the Higgs boson I wonder what larger implications it will have for our understanding of the universe.

I'm not sure I understand what all the fuss is about. All it will do is confirm the current model of sub-atomic structure... and then what?

SattvaPaul

That's why I'm asking. I think because I heard it described in the past as the God-particle, I had high expectations.

I suppose it is also exciting that we have now the technology to investigate at the high levels of energy the LHC allows. The guy in the interview talks about how further investigation can shed some light on dark matter.

SattvaPaul

Well it seems they found something! They say it could be Higgs.

The ATLAS and CMS experiments at CERN today presented their latest results in the search for the long-sought Higgs boson. Both experiments see strong indications for the presence of a new particle, which could be the Higgs boson, in the mass region around 126 gigaelectronvolts (GeV).

http://public.web.cern.ch/public/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-18702455

The next step will be to determine the precise nature of the particle and its significance for our understanding of the universe. Are its properties as expected for the long-sought Higgs boson, the final missing ingredient in the Standard Model of particle physics? Or is it something more exotic? The Standard Model describes the fundamental particles from which we, and every visible thing in the universe, are made, and the forces acting between them. All the matter that we can see, however, appears to be no more than about 4% of the total. A more exotic version of the Higgs particle could be a bridge to understanding the 96% of the universe that remains obscure.

“We have reached a milestone in our understanding of nature,” said CERN Director General Rolf Heuer. “The discovery of a particle consistent with the Higgs boson opens the way to more detailed studies, requiring larger statistics, which will pin down the new particle’s properties, and is likely to shed light on other mysteries of our universe.”

Positive identification of the new particle’s characteristics will take considerable time and data. But whatever form the Higgs particle takes, our knowledge of the fundamental structure of matter is about to take a major step forward.

SattvaPaul

If nobody had any idea of the Standard Model or there was no search for the Higgs boson, would it exist or not?

Sorry, just wanted to make it more Buddhist

Zero

I'm not sure I understand what all the fuss is about. All it will do is confirm the current model of sub-atomic structure... and then what?

Given that the best fitting model of sub-atomic structure has been static for so long and LHC is seemingly the only way to push ahead with the 'missing link', it seems to be the only way to acknowledge that 'dark matter' is a viable theory - at present it is the only alternative that makes the sub-atomic structure model stand and as by nature detecting dark matter is thus far impossible, by detecting the HB, some measure of better certainty is achieved in relation to dark matter being a viable theory to start with.

Next - the massive earth sized telescope to look into our black hole...

B5C

person

A neutron walks into a bar and orders a margherita. He asks the bartender how much and the bartender responds, "No charge."

Songhill

I understand (and I could be wrong) that no one has actually seen a particle such as a Strange Quark or a Photon—and now a Higgs boson. Particles are only inferred just like we infer God since something had to create things.

pegembara

Higgs or no Higgs, you still need your six internal and external sense bases to even ponder let alone "see" it. It is still loka in the Buddhist sense. In a way the discovery of Higgs will not end the scientists' distress.

Dwelling at Savatthi. There the Blessed One addressed the monks: "I will teach you the origination of the world & the ending of the world. Listen & pay close attention. I will speak."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn12/sn12.044.than.html

zenff

I have always thought that my overweight was due to an anomaly in the Higgs field.
The proof of that is now in sight.

andyrobyn

Higgs or no Higgs, you still need your six internal and external sense bases to even ponder let alone "see" it. It is still loka in the Buddhist sense. In a way the discovery of Higgs will not end the scientists' distress.

Dwelling at Savatthi. There the Blessed One addressed the monks: "I will teach you the origination of the world & the ending of the world. Listen & pay close attention. I will speak."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn12/sn12.044.than.html

My husband just said the same thing, although he put it that it keeps scientists in work and he added, for my benefit I know, that it does little towards the Buddhist goal/
I came online to see what was being discussed about this topic at Buddhist forums - hot topic in my kitchen tonight.

DairyLama

My husband just said the same thing, although he put it that it keeps scientists in work and he added, for my benefit

They spent billions of dollars during the space programme getting people on the moon. All we got was some moon rocks, pens that write upside down and teflon frying pans. Humph!

SattvaPaul

My husband just said the same thing, although he put it that it keeps scientists in work and he added, for my benefit

They spent billions of dollars during the space programme getting people on the moon. All we got was some moon rocks, pens that write upside down and teflon frying pans. Humph!

Teflon comes from the moon?

In any case, I think it was worth it.

SattvaPaul

A neutron walks into a bar and orders a margherita. He asks the bartender how much and the bartender responds, "No charge."

(abandons all remaining hope of a serious discussion in this thread)

federica

.....All we got was some moon rocks, pens that write upside down and teflon frying pans. Humph!

Those pens cost thousands of dollars' worth of research, experiment and production.
The Russians decided to use pencils.

Bit cheaper, I think....

I'm sorry, yes, we're veering off topic.
sorry, @SattvaPaul....

Back to topic - please!

person

This guy does a good job of explaining sciencey stuff, here he explains the Higgs boson.

David

.....All we got was some moon rocks, pens that write upside down and teflon frying pans. Humph!

Those pens cost thousands of dollars' worth of research, experiment and production.
The Russians decided to use pencils.

Bit cheaper, I think....

I'm sorry, yes, we're veering off topic.
sorry, @SattvaPaul....

Back to topic - please!

A few good zingers here and they hit home too.

However seriously, it's kind of cool to find out how we get mass. I don't doubt for a second that there will be oddball technological breakthroughs with this kind of disovery and I can't wait to see what we come up with but hope nobody harnesses powerful weapons out of it all.

We are natural born explorers. We just need to wake up to the common sense of togetherness and compassion and there's no telling what we could acheive.

Just imagine if as a species, we invested as much time, effort and resources into space exploration as we do into the exploitation of this planet which we have pretty much mapped to the inch...

I think we are headed to a time where greed will be seen as something we've outgrown because our resources are infinite. By "our" I include any and all other sentient beings we may encounter.

We have been looking for a perpetual motion machine since the wheel was invented but we have been flying around in one literally forever.

person

Science Friday had a good segment today about the Higgs discovery.

http://sciencefriday.com/segment/07/06/2012/at-long-last-the-higgs-particle-maybe.html

DairyLama

I can't wait to see what we come up with but hope nobody harnesses powerful weapons out of it all.

Undoubtedly they will. It's quite scary actually.

person

A Higgs Boson walks into a bar and asks everyone to take part in an act of penitence. "What are you doing?" asks the barman. "Giving mass."

Vastmind

A Higgs Boson walks into a bar and asks everyone to take part in an act of penitence. "What are you doing?" asks the barman. "Giving mass."

ROFLMAO ............ No! Rolling on floor laughing my MASS off!

Telly03

It's just another discovery, there will be more... I like how Alan Watts describes how that the atom was at one time the smallest item in the search of discovering what we are made of... the greek meaning of atomis is "none cutable" because we were technology stuck at how to cut deeper. It doesn't end... through our eyes, the universe is trying to look at itself. "The mystery of life is not a problem to be solved, but a reality to be experienced"