What does Buddhism say about spiritual ego?

RebeccaS

Things like thinking you're enlightened when you're not, convincing yourself you're more liberated than you are, that kind of thing.
Are there any warnings or any tips (for lack of a better word) on how to deal with that kind of thing?

person

In the vinaya, the monastic code for monks and nuns (not for lay people) there are a few root downfalls that result in losing ones status as a monk/nun. One is killing a person, one is having intercourse, there's one or two others, then there's claiming false spiritual attainments.

Also, in my tradition (Tibetan) before a teacher takes his seat to teach he prostrates 3 times to the Buddha to remind himself of the source of the instruction and that its not them.

federica

That such behaviour is Conceit, which should be abandoned.

Jeffrey

It eventually burns out I would think. Eventually enough clear insight comes that you are not beyond suffering. My lama says she still practices because she knows how stressful change is for her. So eventually one realizes that they are missing the chance at a spiritual practice in contact with reality by being stuck in their own head.

Some example of reality is life chapters, loss, and loved ones relationships changing or losing.

how

The ego has no other job except to use whatever tools are at it's disposal to maintain itself. Spiritual pride is a pretty common trap for any of path walkers..
In Zen, a common refrain is that with each day we know a little less and everyday brings a heart thats a bit wider than yesterdays.
If either of those are not part of this days' experience, its time to check out why?

For me it always comes down to seeing what I can't let go of, and just doing that.

Gui

Things like thinking you're enlightened when you're not, convincing yourself you're more liberated than you are, that kind of thing.
Are there any warnings or any tips (for lack of a better word) on how to deal with that kind of thing?

Reality is not what you think. Let it all go.

genkaku

Things like thinking you're enlightened when you're not, convincing yourself you're more liberated than you are, that kind of thing.

... and let's not forget ... "thinking you're not enlightened when you are, convincing yourself you're less liberated than you are, that kind of thing."

Just keep up your strong and determined practice.

ThePensum

Perhaps fostering the delusion that you are superior to those who do not try to follow a spiritual path is pretty dangerous.

taiyaki

It happens a lot.

But the nice thing about reality is that it asserts itself as suffering.

So another lesson learnt.

Reality will humble us and make us kinder. Or we'll suffer.

Gui

@taiyaki But isn't reality before mind? And isn't it the mind where desire/suffering arises? I would say reality is emptiness. Where tea is tea. Or are we speaking of two different things?

RebeccaS

@genkaku I can't say I've really had that problem

I think you guys make a good point, that the suffering is going to keep coming and at some point it's going to shake you enough to make you realize you're maybe not as far along as you'd convinced yourself you were. Great insights, thanks to all.

Cloud

It really is a pitfall, but people are right you'd know differently if you were still suffering. If there's even a shred of self-view left, thinking "I am enlightened" (not just the thought, but that being the actual view), that's also not even the beginning stage.

The problem seems simple enough. We're so deluded that when we have a breakthrough, some significant insight, we think that's it. What we don't realize is that there are many insights along the way... we're just that stuck in the world. It's insight after insight after insight. Long-term practitioners are used to this, but newbies have to find out for themselves. There's really nothing to worry about though, because suffering does rear its ugly head again and snap us out of it!

zenff

My memory fails me, but I’m sure there was a teaching I heard in a Therevada context. It said something like this:
There are three delusions we should avoid. The first delusion is being superior, the second delusion is being inferior and the third delusion is being equal.

I’m so sorry I can’t think of a Pali-term or a sutra for reference.

I liked that idea. Ego can cling to any of these positions and the solution for it is not to compare at all.
What if we don’t compare ourselves to others, nor to our own past or future, nor to an image we make of the Buddha?
What if we don’t stick any label at all on our spiritual condition?

Cloud

@zenff, Yeah, "Mana" or "conceit" or "measuring" (greater than, less than, equal to).

seeker242

I found this little story the other day. It's a good story I think.

Dhammapada Verse 282: The Story of Thera Potthila

While residing at the Jetavana monastery, the Buddha uttered Verse (282) of this book,
with reference to Thera Potthila.

Potthila was a senior Bhikkhu, who knew the Pitaka well and was actually teaching the
Dhamma to five hundred Bhikkhus. Because he knew the Pitaka, he was also very conceited. The Buddha knew his weakness and wanted him to mend his ways and put him on the right path. So, whenever Potthila came to pay obeisance, the Buddha would address him as 'Useless Potthila'. When Potthila heard these remarks, he pondered over those words of the Buddha and came to realize that the Buddha had made those unkind remarks because he, Potthila, had not made any serious effort to practice meditation and had not achieved any of the Maggas or even any level of mental absorption (jhana).

Thus, without telling anyone Thera Potthila left for a monastery at a place twenty yojanas away from the Jetavana monastery. At that monastery there were thirty Bhikkhus. First, he went to the most senior Bhikkhu and humbly requested him to be his mentor; but the thera, wishing to humble him, asked him to go to the next senior Bhikkhu, who in his turn sent him on to the next. In this way, he was sent from one to the other until he came to a seven year old Arahat samanera. The young samanera accepted him as a pupil only after ascertaining that Potthila would obediently follow his instructions. As instructed by the samanera, Thera Potthila kept his mind firmly fixed on the true nature of the body; he was very ardent and vigilant in his meditation.

The Buddha saw Potthila in his vision and through supernormal power made Potthila feel his presence and encouraged him to be steadfast and ardent.

Then the Buddha spoke in verse as follows:

Verse 282. Indeed, wisdom is born of meditation; without meditation wisdom is lost.
Knowing this twofold path of gain and loss of wisdom, one should conduct oneself
so that wisdom may increase.

At the end of the discourse Potthila attained Arahatship.

DairyLama

Are there any warnings or any tips (for lack of a better word) on how to deal with that kind of thing?

I think self-awareness and self-honesty goes a long way.

Sabre

Also following a right teacher (or multiple) will help. See if he practices what he preaches and if that's consistent with the texts. There are some deluded teachers out there, following these teachings and you'll easily think you are (partly) enlightenment while you aren't.

A good teacher will also hold you in check once you think you are somewhere you aren't, I think.

RebeccaS

@zenff That's like... Really good! I'll look it up, thanks!

@seeker242 That's a great story, and it was definitely helpful, thank you.

Also following a right teacher (or multiple) will help. See if he practices what he preaches and if that's consistent with the texts. There are some deluded teachers out there, following these teachings and you'll easily think you are (partly) enlightenment while you aren't.

A good teacher will also hold you in check once you think you are somewhere you aren't, I think.

Been there

I'm signing up for a meditation class at one of the temples so maybe the monks there will be able to offer some guidance, also