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A Dharma for the masses - a philosophy and practice
Yeah we have plenty of meditation classes, but Middlesbrough is a pretty big place. We have lots of churches, a strong Muslim presence, Hindu's, some Buddhism etc. But asides from the Christians, there is very little integration between spiritual sections and the general population who really do need some spiritual nourishment but who are generally adverse to such things... hence my interest in establishing something a little more under the radar.
If you want to develop something non-religious, is humanism worth exploring? It would be a shame to spend a lot of energy re-inventing the wheel if there is something already out there that could provide well, at least a starting point?
It's less re-inventing the wheel, and more adapting the wheel for different terrain, y'know? A few people have mentioned humanism too me, but to put it bluntly, if it is all that then why so little impact from them on the world? At least i've heard of Buddhism.
I think what i'm looking for is a few motivated compassionate warriors. People who will go into the world and seek out the darkest places to shine their light purposefully and consistently. We have many compassionate people in the world, but it slips, I see so many people around me at work who do gorgeous acts of love to others, then go into the staff room and bitch about someone else! FCUK that!
I want to meet some people who are totally dedicated to spreading compassion throughout the world through their amazing, dedicated, impeccable example. People who spend their lives in perpetual practice. Who rush towards conflict and suffering and hatred with open arms and excitement at another beautiful to chance to shine their light and ease the pain of others. I want a philosophy that motivates and determines all of this that can be easily shared with anyone and be understood by anyone and be implemented in their own lives by anyone. Simplicity, pure simplicity. Cut away the fat and get to the lean muscles of love and compassion.
I don't want a world where some people are enlightened whilst others are being tortured to death in a chamber under the desert somewhere. I don't want a world where some sit in the luxury of meditation whilst others starve to death. Compassionate practice and compassionate action must go hand in hand, with both informing each other and both enabling the other to reach greater heights. The world needs those truly compassionate few to step up now and take their light and shine it where it is most needed.
There is no excuse not to! We might think 'oh but if we haven't practiced enough then we might do more harm than good'... but guess what? Harm is being done anyway! And trying to help is more likely to result in help than it is harm. And every mistakes and every opportunity to practice will hone our skills until we are consistently helping. And I don't care what others think, because if you are a Buddhist of any level living in this world and you are not making an effort to help those in need then, in my eyes, you are not a Buddhist. Take that as you will. But this world does not need people sat at home mentally wrestling with the concept of emptiness whilst a few streets away someone is sleeping under a bush.
These are my honest feelings. If they are not shared by the vast majority then fair enough, there is little I can do about that. But if there are a few that agree then it's time to step forwards and we can start thinking about what it is we can do... not only to do good, but to spread a message and a philosophy that proliferates a real understanding of goodness that motivates and expands it throughout humanity. Maybe then we can all be a little bit happy.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
What you're saying, in a nutshell, is that Buddhists need to put their money where their mouth is and be a bit more socially pro-active....?
Not really, that won't happen - or at least, it is beyond me to make that happen. Also, doing social work is good, but we need to be equipping people with the tools to enable them to help themselves. Y'know, give a man a fish etc. This is where i'd say that Buddhism is mis-firing a little, because it has transferred a spiritual tradition from a foreign culture in a different time and attempted to mix it into western life... and yeah, of course some people will be attracted to it as it is, but given how skillful Buddhism is, given the example it has set over 2500 years (no religious wars, no persecutions, tolerance for all etc.), and given how effective it is in providing the happiness that every human being desires, it should be A LOT more attractive to the wider population than it currently is, and it's for Buddhists to ask why.
And we must ask why, because the whole point of Buddhism is to relieve suffering. We need to decide whether it is more important to actually spread happiness and relieve suffering or to keep traditions from different cultures and ages - traditions that were designed for those cultures and ages - alive.
I would love to see more Buddhists take their compassion and skills into society, but that is less of a Buddhist question and more of a human question... some people are motivated, others aren't. But if we have a simple, effective teaching that all human beings can relate to, understand, and implement that has no allusions to religion, then we can enable those with the energy to make a bigger difference by providing them with skills and tools and practices. To me this makes sense, but only if it is understood that the point of being a Buddhist is to help others.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited August 2012
Not really, that won't happen - or at least, it is beyond me to make that happen.
Why? Gandhi didn't let a little thing like Empirical occupation stop him.. and Galileo Galilei said - "Give me a lever, and I will move the World". you just need to find the fulcrum upon which to apply leverage....
...This is where i'd say that Buddhism is mis-firing a little, because it has transferred a spiritual tradition from a foreign culture in a different time and attempted to mix it into western life...
Well, I'm not sure that is entirely the disadvantage you make it out to be; bear in mind that the fundamental teachings go back nearly 3000 years, and are just as applicable today as they were when they were first broadcast. So Buddhism, by the very virtue that it is non-Theistic, is a complex benchmark by which we can apply - and evaluate - life as we live it. It is timeless, and has no restrictive bounaries which make it too complex to disperse; on the contrary, it's entirely practicable in every single sphere of life.
and yeah, of course some people will be attracted to it as it is, but given how skillful Buddhism is, given the example it has set over 2500 years (no religious wars, no persecutions, tolerance for all etc.), and given how effective it is in providing the happiness that every human being desires, it should be A LOT more attractive to the wider population than it currently is, and it's for Buddhists to ask why.
Because proselytising is discouraged. And essentially, what you seem to be proposing is to take Budsdhism to an evangelical level, and buddhists have been resistent to that from day one, for precisely the reasons people don't like other religions and disciplines being 'shoved down their throat'. Because it's intrusive, uninvited and unwelcome.
And we must ask why, because the whole point of Buddhism is to relieve suffering. We need to decide whether it is more important to actually spread happiness and relieve suffering or to keep traditions from different cultures and ages - traditions that were designed for those cultures and ages - alive.
No. The Buddha taught: I come to teach the origin of suffering and the cessation of suffering. Suffering cannot always be relieved. To 'relieve' someone's 'suffering' would mean to take it away from them and give them a suffering-free existence.
I would love to see more Buddhists take their compassion and skills into society, but that is less of a Buddhist question and more of a human question... some people are motivated, others aren't. But if we have a simple, effective teaching that all human beings can relate to, understand, and implement that has no allusions to religion,
We have. They're called the Four Noble Truths. You mustn't confuse 'simple' with 'easy'. everything about Buddhism is eminently Simple. Nothing about Buddhism in any way suggests that implementing the practice, is easy.
then we can enable those with the energy to make a bigger difference by providing them with skills and tools and practices. To me this makes sense, but only if it is understood that the point of being a Buddhist is to help others.
But it isn't.
The point of being a Buddhist is to achieve Enlightenment by understanding the origin of Suffering, the cessation of suffering, and how to cease perpetuating negative Kamma. nowhere, anywhere, does the Buddha tell us, that the point of being Buddhist is "To help others". This is not to say we shouldn't - but even he was reluctant to take his message out to a broad audience - so he would never require us to do it. Each person, should they decide this to be the way to go, must do it for themselves. but applying such a practice and vocation skilfully, is a hard task. How many people do you think Mother Teresa preached to? Not a one. She didn't speak of her fundamental beliefs, she just acted.
I think she did a pretty good job, don't you think?
I adore Mother Teresa's example of missionary work. She was so, so amazing, and it's true, she never preached. She just fed and clothed, fed and clothed. "Never worry about numbers, we feed one, then we feed one, then we feed one. That's how we count, one, one, one". Incredible woman.
If someone can contribute to Humanity by preaching then there is nothing wrong with that too. e.g. Dalai Lama is doing a great job in telling people about compassion, and love.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
Yes, but he's world-famous, and is invited to do so.
And he doesn't preach - he teaches to an already willing audience, mostly touching on specific aspects or subjects. That's not the kind of work mindatrisk is talking about.
If you want to develop something non-religious, is humanism worth exploring? It would be a shame to spend a lot of energy re-inventing the wheel if there is something already out there that could provide well, at least a starting point?
It's less re-inventing the wheel, and more adapting the wheel for different terrain, y'know? A few people have mentioned humanism too me, but to put it bluntly, if it is all that then why so little impact from them on the world? At least i've heard of Buddhism.
Maybe the best thing is to start where you live - start a local group and see if people come forward, and see whether they share your vision ( you might need to compromise ). Those people could be from a variety of traditions and persuasions.
Why? Gandhi didn't let a little thing like Empirical occupation stop him.. and Galileo Galilei said - "Give me a lever, and I will move the World". you just need to find the fulcrum upon which to apply leverage....
I really love Gandhi. He gives me hope because he was not an enlightened man, he was imperfect, but through this moral courage and will power he made a difference. I aspire to that, but I’m a little young to be considering whether it is attainable at this stage. But I appreciate your encouragement!
Well, I'm not sure that is entirely the disadvantage you make it out to be; bear in mind that the fundamental teachings go back nearly 3000 years, and are just as applicable today as they were when they were first broadcast. So Buddhism, by the very virtue that it is non-Theistic, is a complex benchmark by which we can apply - and evaluate - life as we live it. It is timeless, and has no restrictive bounaries which make it too complex to disperse; on the contrary, it's entirely practicable in every single sphere of life.
Indeed, it is immensely practicable, and immensely relative to everyday living, if you get beyond the superficial obstacles. I am only speaking from simple experience and observation here. I see people around me who refuse to go near Buddhism for many different reasons, of which I have outlined here. All I am saying is that these obstacles are irrelevant to the actual teachings at the core of Buddhism, and as such we should not be precious about preserving them in all cases if someone can be helped by doing so.
Because proselytising is discouraged. And essentially, what you seem to be proposing is to take Budsdhism to an evangelical level, and buddhists have been resistent to that from day one, for precisely the reasons people don't like other religions and disciplines being 'shoved down their throat'. Because it's intrusive, uninvited and unwelcome.
No, I want to take loving kindness to an evangelical level. I don’t care whether that is informed by Buddhism, Christianity, stoned hippies, or whatever. And I have said clearly that I have no interest in shoving anything down anyone’s throat, but instead to set an example of loving kindness that attracts attention, and only then should we share the ideas that shape our actions. I think that is a pretty high standard to set, but a worthwhile standard to motivate us, and to remove the possibility of alienating anyone.
No. The Buddha taught: I come to teach the origin of suffering and the cessation of suffering. Suffering cannot always be relieved. To 'relieve' someone's 'suffering' would mean to take it away from them and give them a suffering-free existence.
With all due respect, what the Buddha said and didn’t say 2500 years ago is a little difficult to determine and know as fact, and so I prefer to reason for myself based upon those prompts and ideas, which is what the Buddha advocated us to do. It would be a big leap to believe that what we have the Buddha’s exact words and teachings.
Now, I’m not disputing what the Buddha meant or the validity of his teachings, because they are wonderful, but I am saying that NOW, 2500 years later, we should be thinking for ourselves, re-evaluating, considering our circumstances, and looking at what needs to be done, and if needs be, adapting where necessary to meet our circumstances.
To aim for enlightenment is fantastic, and I do so myself, but should that really be at the expense of the wellbeing and happiness of those around us, when we could also be committing ourselves in the present moment to helping them? Do we need to wait for enlightenment to relieve suffering? Am I better suited sitting in meditation all day every day and ignoring the immense suffering in my local area than combining the meditation with the compassionate action?
And, to ‘relieve’ can just mean to lessen, it doesn’t have to be totally alleviated, and that is what I was referring to. As such, I have not encountered any situation where suffering cannot be lessened.
We have. They're called the Four Noble Truths. You mustn't confuse 'simple' with 'easy'. everything about Buddhism is eminently Simple. Nothing about Buddhism in any way suggests that implementing the practice, is easy.
At core Buddhism is simple, but I would guarantee that if you took to your local high street and asked random people whether they consider Buddhism to be simple or complex then they would say complex. And if you asked them if they thought it would be easy or hard to understand then they would say hard. And if you asked them if they thought it was relevant to their lives or not then they would say not. THIS is the problem. It is not Buddhism that is the problem - the teachings are wonderful - but for whatever reasons that core simplicity is not what most people are seeing.
Can this be overcome? I’m not sure under the label of ‘Buddhism’ that it can, and that is why I suggest a branch off teaching that is accessible, understood and relevant to peoples lives.
But it isn't.
The point of being a Buddhist is to achieve Enlightenment by understanding the origin of Suffering, the cessation of suffering, and how to cease perpetuating negative Kamma. nowhere, anywhere, does the Buddha tell us, that the point of being Buddhist is "To help others". This is not to say we shouldn't - but even he was reluctant to take his message out to a broad audience - so he would never require us to do it.
Again, Buddhism is many different things to many different people, and that is possible because the Buddha encouraged that we think for ourselves. So, I look at what Buddhists have - compassion, patience, tolerance, understanding, wisdom, insight etc. and I look at the world and I think about what it lacks - compassion, patience, tolerance, understanding, wisdom, insight etc. and I conclude that what is most needed right now on this planet is for compassionate, wise folk to share their compassion and wisdom around.
It doesn’t matter what the Buddha was reluctant to do 2500 years ago, because he didn’t have to contend with weapons of mass destruction and widespread environmental destruction. He also didn’t have the capacity to spread a message as far and wide as we do now through modern telecommunications. So we must use our reason - motivated by compassion - to adapt to the circumstances. What the Buddha said and didn’t say is only as relevant as it is relatable to our present lives.
We live in a time that requires some urgency. We need the loving people to stand up and shine, to get out into communities and transform minds and hearts, because at this rate humankind is fucked. We have the technology and the ignorance to utterly destroy ourselves and so many others. Is this not something that should concern us? Is this not something that we should actively be doing something about? Do you believe that enlightenment can be attained whilst ignoring suffering?
I’m not offering any easy answers, but I think these are questions that need to be asked. Right now you might be in comfortable surroundings and comfortable circumstances, and so it can be easy to forget just how brutal life is for some and that you really can do something about it. The simple fact of the matter is that if you were directly confronted by the sort of suffering that exists on this planet, i.e. impoverished nations, war torn countries etc. then not for one second would it even enter your mind that ‘the Buddha didn’t teach us to help others’, you would just do it. So, what is the difference? Geography? You can’t see the suffering so there is less urgency to relieve it?
I’m aiming this questions at you, but obviously I don’t know your circumstances nor the efforts you make, so I’m not judging you, but these, I feel, are questions we must all be asking ourselves.
Each person, should they decide this to be the way to go, must do it for themselves. but applying such a practice and vocation skilfully, is a hard task. How many people do you think Mother Teresa preached to? Not a one. She didn't speak of her fundamental beliefs, she just acted.
I think she did a pretty good job, don't you think?
(Another single person who moved mountains....)
First of all, it’s not about preaching, it’s about sharing, and since we are on a discussion forum, and see it helps me to help others by thinking about these things then I feel it is worthwhile. Secondly, I’ve heard some not-so-good things about Mother Theresa and her actions, so maybe if she had shared her thought process a little more then she’d have been challenged a little and the not-so-good things that she did might have been made good.
Anyway, thanks for your thoughts. You make a lot of great points, and I’m not agreeing or disagreeing, simply asking a lot of questions that I see as needed to be asked.
Yes, but he's world-famous, and is invited to do so.
And he doesn't preach - he teaches to an already willing audience, mostly touching on specific aspects or subjects. That's not the kind of work mindatrisk is talking about.
I'm not talking about preaching! In fact, i've stated clearly that we should speak nothing of our beliefs and ideas until invited. I advocate setting an example that invites attention and interest and that opens the door to further discussion around beliefs etc.
If you want to develop something non-religious, is humanism worth exploring? It would be a shame to spend a lot of energy re-inventing the wheel if there is something already out there that could provide well, at least a starting point?
It's less re-inventing the wheel, and more adapting the wheel for different terrain, y'know? A few people have mentioned humanism too me, but to put it bluntly, if it is all that then why so little impact from them on the world? At least i've heard of Buddhism.
Maybe the best thing is to start where you live - start a local group and see if people come forward, and see whether they share your vision ( you might need to compromise ). Those people could be from a variety of traditions and persuasions.
I think what I need to do first and foremost is develop myself to the point where people take notice of how I am. At the moment i'd say I am 99.9% harmless, which is great, but I don't help anywhere near as much as I could do, and that is for a few reasons, the main one being self doubt. In saying that, who knows? I'd like to continue to develop this idea in places like this, and I suppose if it is something that has merit then, given all I have said here, it is my responsibility to make it happen.
To be honest, I see Buddhism growing steadily in the West. Christian organizations are, in fact, freaked out by this, and a lot of effort is spent trying to badmouth Buddhism and other Eastern traditions as a result, which is sad, because Buddhism itself is not a proselytizing religion, nor one that trashes other religions. The fact that it's growing steadily is reflective of a reality that it seems to offer things people are looking for, and finding in Buddhism (or finding some of in Buddhism).
In my town I see those influenced by Buddhism--they range from students in public schools participating in simple meditation programs, to people coming to public talks by the Dalai Lama and other visiting Buddhist teachers, to people going to our local temple occasionally out of interest, to people of all faiths participating on Buddhist-led inter-religious projects, to people deciding Buddhism really is their path, and finally to fully-ordained nuns and monks.
I hear Buddhist-related topics on the radio a lot more--the benefits of meditation, inter-religious peace efforts, etc.--and of course we're pretty lucky here at the university to have all the mind science stuff going on.
When I compare the level of activity in 1979 to that of the present, there seems no question that the good influences of Buddhism--everything from sharing simple meditation to full ordination for those who want it but used to have to go elsewhere--has grown. All this has happened without really advertising it, but simply being there and being receptive and encouraging.
I think a lifetime could be spent bringing the benefits of Buddhism as you describe it, @mindatrisk, to a wider community. You know, instead of one meditation program, widen that to more...almost any project is short on people and would be embraced by more schools if only there were resources. If one doesn't feel qualified to teach a certain subject on ones own, there's no reason not to facilitate a visiting teacher or expert; we can be of immense benefit imo long before we are teachers ourselves. We can be, as you say, cheerful and loving participants in anything we do--it doesn't matter where we are on the path, we'll be shining that light you talk about.
I wouldn't wait for perfection--keep practicing as you do, of course, but just seek the grace, humility and perspective to know ones limits, know ones strengths, and develop a wide network of good people who have expertise in the areas you seek. Then match them up with students who will benefit. You don't have to be a meditation teacher to know one, or be a great lecturer (I'm not saying you aren't one) to know one.
I think there's a thread on Dharma Wheel called "Applied Buddhism" - I haven't read it lately but the past post I saw was "Planting a bee garden" I love the idea of expanding ways to experience and share good thoughts and philosophies.
It is growing steadily... but is steadily enough? I am not talking about the growth of Buddhism, i'm talking about the growth of love and kindness. If Buddhism is a vehicle that can facilitate that then, in my view, it should do everything it can to do so, whether under the guise of 'Buddhism' or simply through loving action. I'm interested in skillful means of achieving the spread of loving kindness, not Buddhism - this world does not need Buddhism, it needs loving kindness. If Buddhism can achieve that one way or another then it should.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
Evolution, not REvolution....
To change the world, we must begin with a small garden....
harness what you know to be skilful and apply it in daily life to everything you do, with everyone you meet. and I kid you not, a genuine smile, a loving and caring attitude and a kind and generous manner will do more to gather the interested and curious, more than anything else, I have found......
Indeed, I agree, and I feel that in my daily life when I am in service that I am as such... but when that attention is attracted and when people take an interest in me and show a curiosity as to how I am able to hold a genuine smile, a loving and caring attitude, a kind and generous manner, and in all circumstances, then it would be useful, I feel, to be able to show a simple philosophy that they will understand and feel able to practice themselves. This is where I currently find difficulties, because, stating that I am Buddhist or that I meditate etc. is like slamming the door shut having opened it slightly with my conduct. Do you understand what I mean? I would like to be able to offer something that can be easily assimilated and, as such, proliferate. Isn't this the ideal?
I would like to be able to offer something that can be easily assimilated and, as such, proliferate. Isn't this the ideal?
Set up a meditation group.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
.... I feel, to be able to show a simple philosophy that they will understand and feel able to practice themselves.
This is where I tell people the following.
"Pain may be a given, but suffering is a choice. We all make choices, every day. and this is my philosophy - I wake up in the morning and I think; Do I have something to be really happy about, and do I have something to be really miserable about? If the answer is 'no' to both, then it's better to be really happy for nothing, than really miserable for nothing. Isn't it?"
If they then say, "Yeah, but what if you DO have something to be miserable for?"
I reply, "So I then think, 'this too shall pass'.... It's a choice. your frame of mind, is a choice. it's a bit like building a lighthouse. it doesn't matter what kind of weather is going on... from the calmest April morning, to the roughest November weather - the lighthouse is always a lighthouse. That's what you have to put your mind into. A lighthouse. "
.... I feel, to be able to show a simple philosophy that they will understand and feel able to practice themselves.
This is where I tell people the following.
"Pain may be a given, but suffering is a choice. We all make choices, every day. and this is my philosophy - I wake up in the morning and I think; Do I have something to be really happy about, and do I have something to be really miserable about? If the answer is 'no' to both, then it's better to be really happy for nothing, than really miserable for nothing. Isn't it?"
If they then say, "Yeah, but what if you DO have something to be miserable for?"
I reply, "So I then think, 'this too shall pass'.... It's a choice. your frame of mind, is a choice. it's a bit like building a lighthouse. it doesn't matter what kind of weather is going on... from the calmest April morning, to the roughest November weather - the lighthouse is always a lighthouse. That's what you have to put your mind into. A lighthouse. "
how's that?
These are wise words, indeed, and something I do like to share, although i'm a little less poetic! And these words will help some. But, y'know, maybe my perception is skewed from where I work and who I am around. Maybe most people are no-where near as troubled as the people I live and work around, but I would find it hard to tell the mother of a heroin addict that their child's addiction will pass, or a long term unemployed father with no job prospects in a diminishing economy that it will pass, or even directly to a 20 year heroin addict that their own addiction will pass. Your words and wisdom offer something, without doubt, but it needs to be built upon a little... which is what this thread was to be about. What you have offered is beautiful and helpful, but sat alone against a tirade of ego and suffering it probably wouldn't stand up too long, so it needs to be reinforced with more ideas and tools, like what I shared in my OP.
I would like to be able to offer something that can be easily assimilated and, as such, proliferate. Isn't this the ideal?
Set up a meditation group.
But this is the problem i've being outlining... Suggest meditating to a Middlesbrough lad and you're gonna get a funny look, at best. And it is too detached... If someone notices my patience then I want to be able to share some reasoning for being patient that explains to them why i'm patient, the benefits of being patient, and how to practice it. Telling them that I meditate isn't giving them much to go on.
Because with addiction there's an excellent chance it won't pass, not without help.
But make a distinction here... At first it was dharma for the masses, now it's dharma for addicts? Those are two very different "target audiences".
Well, now we're talking a bit more about what I can do, and so I can only really explore what I have to practice with. And being an addict was only one example of three I offered. You know as I do that there are many more problems in Boro than addiction, including high unemployment, high crime rates, actual poverty etc.
With a Boro lad, tell him it's because you give a shit about him, call him an asshole, punch him in the face and you'll be pals for life
Punching is love in Middlesbrough
Ha! Too true, too true. I'm glad i'm in Boro, though, because if positive changes could be created in Boro then they could be done anywhere, really. I'm defo in at the deep end, but i'm glad, the challenge is the pleasure. Anyway, Boro folk are as friendly as they come, but their circumstances are so difficult, which causes so much stress and tension and desperate behaviour. I had one youth worker tell a friend that if he lost his job because of the economic cuts then he'd become a drug dealer! That's a youth worker! But it's the reality - he has a family to feed and the simple fact is that becoming a drug dealer in Boro is easy and profitable. It's a crazy existence.
I would like to be able to offer something that can be easily assimilated and, as such, proliferate. Isn't this the ideal?
Set up a meditation group.
But this is the problem i've being outlining... Suggest meditating to a Middlesbrough lad and you're gonna get a funny look, at best.
You might be surprised. And if you want to connect ( and it sounds like you do ) then don't you need to be out there? Also, why not get out and about and see what else is going on, explore, keep an open mind, see if you can find some like-minded people - again you might be surprised.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
These are socially-orchestrated problems, and as such, nothing you can have any control over, with regard to the politics of the current economic climate. These are all matters relating to the financial crisis and the consequences to associated parameters, such as education, welfare, youth activities and health.
You're muddling states of mind - which you can influence - with other factors which you cannot.
you have to distinguish between what you can influence - and what you cannot affect.
And believe me - although it may seem to you as if you are a lone beacon shining in the darkness - i bet there are others who think as you do.
Yeah I lived well below the poverty line in Middlesbrough for a long time. It really is a big problem there. Homelessness is pretty bad, but it's not as bad as the city I live in now.
It's a nasty, nasty hole of a place, and I found the best way to deal with it was just to leave
Thankfully, (and I attribute the whole thing to Divinity) my circumstances allowed me to leave.
Trying to save Middlesbrough is like trying to bail out the ocean with a red solo cup.
I really found that the best thing to do was make myself happy and just get out. I keep telling my family to leave, but they don't listen. Everyone around them drags them down. "Crabs in the bucket". I was always made to believe that I had "ideas above my station" for wanting to get the hell out of there, because misery loves company.
I just tried to set an example by leaving, hoping my family would follow. I've managed to convince one friend to look into leaving, and my mom has been thinking about it for a while. For some reason, even though they don't know each other, they're both attracted to New Zealand
They won't go though. They don't really want to.
Middlesbrough is a place you leave.
People there don't want help and no matter what you do, there will always be more.
I was taught that by seeking enlightenment you benefit all of mankind. It's like, the more people that do it, the easier it becomes for others to do it. Think of walking through a field. The first person that goes makes a bit of a pathway. The next person treads it in a little further, and so on and so on until there is a clear path to follow.
The very act of reaching enlightenment benefits all of mankind not because all enlightened beings become teachers (although some do) but because they've made that pathway a little easier to follow in an unseen way. Because we're all connected by the source of our being, we all receive the benefits of it, whether we're aware of it or not.
It may not seem like it when you look out the window and you have Middlesbrough staring back at you, but we're all exactly where we are for a reason.
I defo don't feel like a lone light! I work alongside a load of staff and volunteers who are all doing all they can to make a difference to the lives of our local people. Maybe my vision is a bit wider / a lot wider, but it's because I see so many others doing so much good that I know it is possible and desirable to actively spread love and kindness. It's not the social factors that i'm interested in changing, but if people are shown (by example) that happiness is independent from financial / social status then it will give them hope, and if there is a simple philosophy for them to adopt then peoples lives could really change.
To change the world, we must begin with a small garden....
harness what you know to be skilful and apply it in daily life to everything you do, with everyone you meet. and I kid you not, a genuine smile, a loving and caring attitude and a kind and generous manner will do more to gather the interested and curious, more than anything else, I have found......
Yeah I lived well below the poverty line in Middlesbrough for a long time. It really is a big problem there. Homelessness is pretty bad, but it's not as bad as the city I live in now.
It's a nasty, nasty hole of a place, and I found the best way to deal with it was just to leave
Thankfully, (and I attribute the whole thing to Divinity) my circumstances allowed me to leave.
Trying to save Middlesbrough is like trying to bail out the ocean with a red solo cup.
I really found that the best thing to do was make myself happy and just get out. I keep telling my family to leave, but they don't listen. Everyone around them drags them down. "Crabs in the bucket". I was always made to believe that I had "ideas above my station" for wanting to get the hell out of there, because misery loves company.
I just tried to set an example by leaving, hoping my family would follow. I've managed to convince one friend to look into leaving, and my mom has been thinking about it for a while. For some reason, even though they don't know each other, they're both attracted to New Zealand
They won't go though. They don't really want to.
Middlesbrough is a place you leave.
People there don't want help and no matter what you do, there will always be more.
I was taught that by seeking enlightenment you benefit all of mankind. It's like, the more people that do it, the easier it becomes for others to do it. Think of walking through a field. The first person that goes makes a bit of a pathway. The next person treads it in a little further, and so on and so on until there is a clear path to follow.
The very act of reaching enlightenment benefits all of mankind not because all enlightened beings become teachers (although some do) but because they've made that pathway a little easier to follow in an unseen way. Because we're all connected by the source of our being, we all receive the benefits of it, whether we're aware of it or not.
It may not seem like it when you look at the window and you have Middlesbrough staring back at you, but we're all exactly where we are for a reason.
I completely understand your attitude to Middlesbrough, and for many the best idea is to just get out of there, especially if they have experienced addiction. Thing is, i'm a Virgo, which means I am inbuilt to serve... I just love to serve. If I was born in Windsor i'd probably be a butler, y'know, so being in Middlesbrough for me is like being a pig in shit, and I love having the chance to help others. Whether or not a serious impact can be made on Middlesbrough... I dunno, but every effort will help, and if I walk my path to enlightenment through Middlesbrough then surely I too will be making that walk a little easier for others around me? Won't that alone help the Middlesbrough people?
Indeed, I agree, and I feel that in my daily life when I am in service that I am as such... but when that attention is attracted and when people take an interest in me and show a curiosity as to how I am able to hold a genuine smile, a loving and caring attitude, a kind and generous manner, and in all circumstances, then it would be useful, I feel, to be able to show a simple philosophy that they will understand and feel able to practice themselves. This is where I currently find difficulties, because, stating that I am Buddhist or that I meditate etc. is like slamming the door shut having opened it slightly with my conduct. Do you understand what I mean? I would like to be able to offer something that can be easily assimilated and, as such, proliferate. Isn't this the ideal?
Why do you have to state it?
As a principal, I never felt the need to state I was Buddhist, yet I used Buddhist principles in my work. If someone asked specifically about my religion, then I would answer -- minimally. If they asked questions beyond that, provided it was for an appropriate reason, I would answer.
I would like to be able to offer something that can be easily assimilated and, as such, proliferate. Isn't this the ideal?
Set up a meditation group.
But this is the problem i've being outlining... Suggest meditating to a Middlesbrough lad and you're gonna get a funny look, at best.
You might be surprised. And if you want to connect ( and it sounds like you do ) then don't you need to be out there? Also, why not get out and about and see what else is going on, explore, keep an open mind, see if you can find some like-minded people - again you might be surprised.
There are meditation groups, and I defo need to socialise a bit more, but I seem to lunge between being outgoing and withdrawn. I know there are people out there, i'm in retreat at the moment, but on the other side I am defo going to get out much more.
But not because of what you do, but because of what you are.
Indeed, and that has always been my main focus, but truth be told, I feel like I have a spiritual teacher within me of sorts, I feel like I have that capacity, but that will only be revealed should I ever get the sort of attention whereby people would be interested in hearing my thoughts. Who we are is vital, but what we do can also make a huge difference, with Gandhi being an obvious example.
Just remember that most people don't want to change.
Change is scary.
Everything that we've ever experienced as a problem has simply been a change. Feeling sad is a change from feeling happy, feeling anxious is a change from feeling safe.
You could say that changing from sad to happy is a positive change, but it's still a change, and a change from what we're used to is a change into the unknown.
It's not that people are scared of being happy or of improving their lives, they're scared of the change, of going into the unknown. What we know and what we're used to (whether we regard it as negative or positive) is where we feel safest.
At best, people know that what they're experiencing is not the best experience they could be having, but letting go of that and moving into uncharted waters is scary, and possibly so scary that they prefer to be where they are, where they know where they stand.
They won't change no matter what you do, because they don't want to.
Any change with them must come from within themselves. Sure, your example may help, but it may not. Your actions are yours, what they do is entirely up to them and there's nothing you can do about it
It doesn't mean you shouldn't serve anyway, just that expecting anything from others will always result in disappointment because what they do has nothing to do with you. Serve anyway
I hope that made some sense to you and that it maybe helps you let go of what you expect from people with regards to them improving their lives. I know it helped me
Y'know, you speak a lot of sense and wisdom when the Boro lass is tamed. I think that change occurs on so many different levels, both conscious and un-conscious, that a good example, some loving-kindness, a bit of wisdom etc. will change people in some way on some level, whether profound or deeply subtle. Certainly, holding onto any expectation of what that change will entail will only lead to disappointment, as you said.
Some people are ripe for change, they've given up on any chance of their ego saving them, all pride is gone, and they are teachable, but for most, pride is a huge obstacle, one that could only ever be overcome with saintly patience. But - and again, skillful means - if we can target those who are teachable then we can illuminate little beacons throughout society who will shine a light where light previously wasn't... and then those unknowable changes can occur. Some may be transformed, whilst others may hardly change at all, but I am certain that wherever love exists that positive changes occur.
Don't worry about changing people. It's not your job to change people, and it never will be because it's not possible. Whether people change or not is nothing to do with you. You may think it's something that you've done that changes people, but that's just the ego taking credit for the work of divinity.
I fully understand that I can't change people, but love can and does, and love is certainly not something that my ego can take credit for, because that is the divine. What I can do is take my love to where it is needed and allow that love to do the work. Don't worry, i'd have to be an idiot to work for so alongside vulnerable people and think that I can make them change. Change comes through them alone, but love can certainly turn the soil and give change a better chance of taking root.
In all honesty, I think I am beyond that. I know who I was and how I behaved before God came into my life, and I know how that love changed my life, i'd be a fool to have experienced what I have experienced and to take credit for it. Before God, I was a fuck up, after God, I remain a fuck up, only now with God pouring through me.
My ego is a sly little fucker, no doubt about it, and it runs rings around me, but when it comes to love I know it is not from me but through me, and that is for two good reasons... 1. As I said before, I wasn't a loving person until I was so miserable that I opened my heart to God, and 2. I'm a Virgo, I don't feel much of anything, so that love I show to others is coming from somewhere, but it ain't from any human feeling.
I'd disagree that you need to be enlightened to not take credit for who you are and the love you express. I mean, most addicts who have surrendered to their higher power would recognise that the growth they attain and the goodness they begin to express is due to a spiritual connection, because quite evidently before that connection they behaved a little bit like a shit.
Yes, I think so to a degree, but I was talking about being beyond the delusion entirely. There's being aware of it and there's being beyond it. I think that being beyond it would be enlightenment.
I'm doing it! I wanted to discuss some ideas about how we could spread some loving-kindness out into the wider population... it is being discussed, and so it is done!
I'm doing it! I wanted to discuss some ideas about how we could spread some loving-kindness out into the wider population... it is being discussed, and so it is done!
Comments
I think what i'm looking for is a few motivated compassionate warriors. People who will go into the world and seek out the darkest places to shine their light purposefully and consistently. We have many compassionate people in the world, but it slips, I see so many people around me at work who do gorgeous acts of love to others, then go into the staff room and bitch about someone else! FCUK that!
I want to meet some people who are totally dedicated to spreading compassion throughout the world through their amazing, dedicated, impeccable example. People who spend their lives in perpetual practice. Who rush towards conflict and suffering and hatred with open arms and excitement at another beautiful to chance to shine their light and ease the pain of others. I want a philosophy that motivates and determines all of this that can be easily shared with anyone and be understood by anyone and be implemented in their own lives by anyone. Simplicity, pure simplicity. Cut away the fat and get to the lean muscles of love and compassion.
I don't want a world where some people are enlightened whilst others are being tortured to death in a chamber under the desert somewhere. I don't want a world where some sit in the luxury of meditation whilst others starve to death. Compassionate practice and compassionate action must go hand in hand, with both informing each other and both enabling the other to reach greater heights. The world needs those truly compassionate few to step up now and take their light and shine it where it is most needed.
There is no excuse not to! We might think 'oh but if we haven't practiced enough then we might do more harm than good'... but guess what? Harm is being done anyway! And trying to help is more likely to result in help than it is harm. And every mistakes and every opportunity to practice will hone our skills until we are consistently helping. And I don't care what others think, because if you are a Buddhist of any level living in this world and you are not making an effort to help those in need then, in my eyes, you are not a Buddhist. Take that as you will. But this world does not need people sat at home mentally wrestling with the concept of emptiness whilst a few streets away someone is sleeping under a bush.
These are my honest feelings. If they are not shared by the vast majority then fair enough, there is little I can do about that. But if there are a few that agree then it's time to step forwards and we can start thinking about what it is we can do... not only to do good, but to spread a message and a philosophy that proliferates a real understanding of goodness that motivates and expands it throughout humanity. Maybe then we can all be a little bit happy.
And we must ask why, because the whole point of Buddhism is to relieve suffering. We need to decide whether it is more important to actually spread happiness and relieve suffering or to keep traditions from different cultures and ages - traditions that were designed for those cultures and ages - alive.
I would love to see more Buddhists take their compassion and skills into society, but that is less of a Buddhist question and more of a human question... some people are motivated, others aren't. But if we have a simple, effective teaching that all human beings can relate to, understand, and implement that has no allusions to religion, then we can enable those with the energy to make a bigger difference by providing them with skills and tools and practices. To me this makes sense, but only if it is understood that the point of being a Buddhist is to help others.
Gandhi didn't let a little thing like Empirical occupation stop him.. and Galileo Galilei said - "Give me a lever, and I will move the World". you just need to find the fulcrum upon which to apply leverage.... Well, I'm not sure that is entirely the disadvantage you make it out to be; bear in mind that the fundamental teachings go back nearly 3000 years, and are just as applicable today as they were when they were first broadcast. So Buddhism, by the very virtue that it is non-Theistic, is a complex benchmark by which we can apply - and evaluate - life as we live it. It is timeless, and has no restrictive bounaries which make it too complex to disperse; on the contrary, it's entirely practicable in every single sphere of life. Because proselytising is discouraged. And essentially, what you seem to be proposing is to take Budsdhism to an evangelical level, and buddhists have been resistent to that from day one, for precisely the reasons people don't like other religions and disciplines being 'shoved down their throat'. Because it's intrusive, uninvited and unwelcome. No.
The Buddha taught: I come to teach the origin of suffering and the cessation of suffering.
Suffering cannot always be relieved. To 'relieve' someone's 'suffering' would mean to take it away from them and give them a suffering-free existence. We have.
They're called the Four Noble Truths.
You mustn't confuse 'simple' with 'easy'. everything about Buddhism is eminently Simple. Nothing about Buddhism in any way suggests that implementing the practice, is easy. But it isn't.
The point of being a Buddhist is to achieve Enlightenment by understanding the origin of Suffering, the cessation of suffering, and how to cease perpetuating negative Kamma.
nowhere, anywhere, does the Buddha tell us, that the point of being Buddhist is "To help others".
This is not to say we shouldn't - but even he was reluctant to take his message out to a broad audience - so he would never require us to do it.
Each person, should they decide this to be the way to go, must do it for themselves.
but applying such a practice and vocation skilfully, is a hard task.
How many people do you think Mother Teresa preached to?
Not a one.
She didn't speak of her fundamental beliefs, she just acted.
I think she did a pretty good job, don't you think?
(Another single person who moved mountains....)
And he doesn't preach - he teaches to an already willing audience, mostly touching on specific aspects or subjects.
That's not the kind of work mindatrisk is talking about.
Indeed, it is immensely practicable, and immensely relative to everyday living, if you get beyond the superficial obstacles. I am only speaking from simple experience and observation here. I see people around me who refuse to go near Buddhism for many different reasons, of which I have outlined here. All I am saying is that these obstacles are irrelevant to the actual teachings at the core of Buddhism, and as such we should not be precious about preserving them in all cases if someone can be helped by doing so. No, I want to take loving kindness to an evangelical level. I don’t care whether that is informed by Buddhism, Christianity, stoned hippies, or whatever. And I have said clearly that I have no interest in shoving anything down anyone’s throat, but instead to set an example of loving kindness that attracts attention, and only then should we share the ideas that shape our actions. I think that is a pretty high standard to set, but a worthwhile standard to motivate us, and to remove the possibility of alienating anyone. With all due respect, what the Buddha said and didn’t say 2500 years ago is a little difficult to determine and know as fact, and so I prefer to reason for myself based upon those prompts and ideas, which is what the Buddha advocated us to do. It would be a big leap to believe that what we have the Buddha’s exact words and teachings.
Now, I’m not disputing what the Buddha meant or the validity of his teachings, because they are wonderful, but I am saying that NOW, 2500 years later, we should be thinking for ourselves, re-evaluating, considering our circumstances, and looking at what needs to be done, and if needs be, adapting where necessary to meet our circumstances.
To aim for enlightenment is fantastic, and I do so myself, but should that really be at the expense of the wellbeing and happiness of those around us, when we could also be committing ourselves in the present moment to helping them? Do we need to wait for enlightenment to relieve suffering? Am I better suited sitting in meditation all day every day and ignoring the immense suffering in my local area than combining the meditation with the compassionate action?
And, to ‘relieve’ can just mean to lessen, it doesn’t have to be totally alleviated, and that is what I was referring to. As such, I have not encountered any situation where suffering cannot be lessened. At core Buddhism is simple, but I would guarantee that if you took to your local high street and asked random people whether they consider Buddhism to be simple or complex then they would say complex. And if you asked them if they thought it would be easy or hard to understand then they would say hard. And if you asked them if they thought it was relevant to their lives or not then they would say not. THIS is the problem. It is not Buddhism that is the problem - the teachings are wonderful - but for whatever reasons that core simplicity is not what most people are seeing.
Can this be overcome? I’m not sure under the label of ‘Buddhism’ that it can, and that is why I suggest a branch off teaching that is accessible, understood and relevant to peoples lives. Again, Buddhism is many different things to many different people, and that is possible because the Buddha encouraged that we think for ourselves. So, I look at what Buddhists have - compassion, patience, tolerance, understanding, wisdom, insight etc. and I look at the world and I think about what it lacks - compassion, patience, tolerance, understanding, wisdom, insight etc. and I conclude that what is most needed right now on this planet is for compassionate, wise folk to share their compassion and wisdom around.
It doesn’t matter what the Buddha was reluctant to do 2500 years ago, because he didn’t have to contend with weapons of mass destruction and widespread environmental destruction. He also didn’t have the capacity to spread a message as far and wide as we do now through modern telecommunications. So we must use our reason - motivated by compassion - to adapt to the circumstances. What the Buddha said and didn’t say is only as relevant as it is relatable to our present lives.
We live in a time that requires some urgency. We need the loving people to stand up and shine, to get out into communities and transform minds and hearts, because at this rate humankind is fucked. We have the technology and the ignorance to utterly destroy ourselves and so many others. Is this not something that should concern us? Is this not something that we should actively be doing something about? Do you believe that enlightenment can be attained whilst ignoring suffering?
I’m not offering any easy answers, but I think these are questions that need to be asked. Right now you might be in comfortable surroundings and comfortable circumstances, and so it can be easy to forget just how brutal life is for some and that you really can do something about it. The simple fact of the matter is that if you were directly confronted by the sort of suffering that exists on this planet, i.e. impoverished nations, war torn countries etc. then not for one second would it even enter your mind that ‘the Buddha didn’t teach us to help others’, you would just do it. So, what is the difference? Geography? You can’t see the suffering so there is less urgency to relieve it?
I’m aiming this questions at you, but obviously I don’t know your circumstances nor the efforts you make, so I’m not judging you, but these, I feel, are questions we must all be asking ourselves. First of all, it’s not about preaching, it’s about sharing, and since we are on a discussion forum, and see it helps me to help others by thinking about these things then I feel it is worthwhile. Secondly, I’ve heard some not-so-good things about Mother Theresa and her actions, so maybe if she had shared her thought process a little more then she’d have been challenged a little and the not-so-good things that she did might have been made good.
Anyway, thanks for your thoughts. You make a lot of great points, and I’m not agreeing or disagreeing, simply asking a lot of questions that I see as needed to be asked.
In my town I see those influenced by Buddhism--they range from students in public schools participating in simple meditation programs, to people coming to public talks by the Dalai Lama and other visiting Buddhist teachers, to people going to our local temple occasionally out of interest, to people of all faiths participating on Buddhist-led inter-religious projects, to people deciding Buddhism really is their path, and finally to fully-ordained nuns and monks.
I hear Buddhist-related topics on the radio a lot more--the benefits of meditation, inter-religious peace efforts, etc.--and of course we're pretty lucky here at the university to have all the mind science stuff going on.
When I compare the level of activity in 1979 to that of the present, there seems no question that the good influences of Buddhism--everything from sharing simple meditation to full ordination for those who want it but used to have to go elsewhere--has grown. All this has happened without really advertising it, but simply being there and being receptive and encouraging.
I think a lifetime could be spent bringing the benefits of Buddhism as you describe it, @mindatrisk, to a wider community. You know, instead of one meditation program, widen that to more...almost any project is short on people and would be embraced by more schools if only there were resources. If one doesn't feel qualified to teach a certain subject on ones own, there's no reason not to facilitate a visiting teacher or expert; we can be of immense benefit imo long before we are teachers ourselves. We can be, as you say, cheerful and loving participants in anything we do--it doesn't matter where we are on the path, we'll be shining that light you talk about.
I wouldn't wait for perfection--keep practicing as you do, of course, but just seek the grace, humility and perspective to know ones limits, know ones strengths, and develop a wide network of good people who have expertise in the areas you seek. Then match them up with students who will benefit. You don't have to be a meditation teacher to know one, or be a great lecturer (I'm not saying you aren't one) to know one.
I think there's a thread on Dharma Wheel called "Applied Buddhism" - I haven't read it lately but the past post I saw was "Planting a bee garden"
To change the world, we must begin with a small garden....
harness what you know to be skilful and apply it in daily life to everything you do, with everyone you meet.
and I kid you not, a genuine smile, a loving and caring attitude and a kind and generous manner will do more to gather the interested and curious, more than anything else, I have found......
"Pain may be a given, but suffering is a choice.
We all make choices, every day. and this is my philosophy - I wake up in the morning and I think; Do I have something to be really happy about, and do I have something to be really miserable about? If the answer is 'no' to both, then it's better to be really happy for nothing, than really miserable for nothing. Isn't it?"
If they then say, "Yeah, but what if you DO have something to be miserable for?"
I reply, "So I then think, 'this too shall pass'.... It's a choice. your frame of mind, is a choice.
it's a bit like building a lighthouse. it doesn't matter what kind of weather is going on... from the calmest April morning, to the roughest November weather - the lighthouse is always a lighthouse. That's what you have to put your mind into. A lighthouse. "
how's that?
But make a distinction here... At first it was dharma for the masses, now it's dharma for addicts? Those are two very different "target audiences".
Punching is love in Middlesbrough
These are all matters relating to the financial crisis and the consequences to associated parameters, such as education, welfare, youth activities and health.
You're muddling states of mind - which you can influence - with other factors which you cannot.
you have to distinguish between what you can influence - and what you cannot affect.
And believe me - although it may seem to you as if you are a lone beacon shining in the darkness - i bet there are others who think as you do.
It's a nasty, nasty hole of a place, and I found the best way to deal with it was just to leave
Thankfully, (and I attribute the whole thing to Divinity) my circumstances allowed me to leave.
Trying to save Middlesbrough is like trying to bail out the ocean with a red solo cup.
I really found that the best thing to do was make myself happy and just get out. I keep telling my family to leave, but they don't listen. Everyone around them drags them down. "Crabs in the bucket". I was always made to believe that I had "ideas above my station" for wanting to get the hell out of there, because misery loves company.
I just tried to set an example by leaving, hoping my family would follow. I've managed to convince one friend to look into leaving, and my mom has been thinking about it for a while. For some reason, even though they don't know each other, they're both attracted to New Zealand
They won't go though. They don't really want to.
Middlesbrough is a place you leave.
People there don't want help and no matter what you do, there will always be more.
I was taught that by seeking enlightenment you benefit all of mankind. It's like, the more people that do it, the easier it becomes for others to do it. Think of walking through a field. The first person that goes makes a bit of a pathway. The next person treads it in a little further, and so on and so on until there is a clear path to follow.
The very act of reaching enlightenment benefits all of mankind not because all enlightened beings become teachers (although some do) but because they've made that pathway a little easier to follow in an unseen way. Because we're all connected by the source of our being, we all receive the benefits of it, whether we're aware of it or not.
It may not seem like it when you look out the window and you have Middlesbrough staring back at you, but we're all exactly where we are for a reason.
:thumbsup:
As a principal, I never felt the need to state I was Buddhist, yet I used Buddhist principles in my work. If someone asked specifically about my religion, then I would answer -- minimally. If they asked questions beyond that, provided it was for an appropriate reason, I would answer.
But not because of what you do, but because of what you are.
The actions are yours, the outcome is not.
Let go of any expectations you have about people changing or things getting better, and then serve anyway.
Change is scary.
Everything that we've ever experienced as a problem has simply been a change. Feeling sad is a change from feeling happy, feeling anxious is a change from feeling safe.
You could say that changing from sad to happy is a positive change, but it's still a change, and a change from what we're used to is a change into the unknown.
It's not that people are scared of being happy or of improving their lives, they're scared of the change, of going into the unknown. What we know and what we're used to (whether we regard it as negative or positive) is where we feel safest.
At best, people know that what they're experiencing is not the best experience they could be having, but letting go of that and moving into uncharted waters is scary, and possibly so scary that they prefer to be where they are, where they know where they stand.
They won't change no matter what you do, because they don't want to.
Any change with them must come from within themselves. Sure, your example may help, but it may not. Your actions are yours, what they do is entirely up to them and there's nothing you can do about it
It doesn't mean you shouldn't serve anyway, just that expecting anything from others will always result in disappointment because what they do has nothing to do with you. Serve anyway
I hope that made some sense to you and that it maybe helps you let go of what you expect from people with regards to them improving their lives. I know it helped me
Some people are ripe for change, they've given up on any chance of their ego saving them, all pride is gone, and they are teachable, but for most, pride is a huge obstacle, one that could only ever be overcome with saintly patience. But - and again, skillful means - if we can target those who are teachable then we can illuminate little beacons throughout society who will shine a light where light previously wasn't... and then those unknowable changes can occur. Some may be transformed, whilst others may hardly change at all, but I am certain that wherever love exists that positive changes occur.
Don't worry about changing people. It's not your job to change people, and it never will be because it's not possible. Whether people change or not is nothing to do with you. You may think it's something that you've done that changes people, but that's just the ego taking credit for the work of divinity.
Serve anyway
But the ego will most certainly try and take credit for it
I'd disagree that you need to be enlightened to not take credit for who you are and the love you express. I mean, most addicts who have surrendered to their higher power would recognise that the growth they attain and the goodness they begin to express is due to a spiritual connection, because quite evidently before that connection they behaved a little bit like a shit.