Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
A Dharma for the masses - a philosophy and practice
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
@mindatrisk, it seems to me that you are eager to see a transition into a lovingly-kind society a lot more quickly than is happening. It's like you want it all, and you want it now... you're 'doing the right stuff' but you're witnessing little or no result.
Think on this... water, in substance, is inconsequential when you compare it to solid rock. but the Grand Canyon proves otherwise. It might have taken millennia, but it still happened.... water, drop by drop, over time, will pierce a stone.
Consider yourself aqueous, my friend.... A mere drop in the ocean.
But without that drop, the ocean would be the poorer....
I'm doing it! I wanted to discuss some ideas about how we could spread some loving-kindness out into the wider population... it is being discussed, and so it is done!
But actions speak lounder than words.
Indeed they do, but there is a balance too, and discussion informs and enables my actions and my actions inform and enable such dialogues. That I am here discussing ideas doesn't mean that I am not at once living them too.
@mindatrisk, it seems to me that you are eager to see a transition into a lovingly-kind society a lot more quickly than is happening. It's like you want it all, and you want it now... you're 'doing the right stuff' but you're witnessing little or no result.
Think on this... water, in substance, is inconsequential when you compare it to solid rock. but the Grand Canyon proves otherwise. It might have taken millennia, but it still happened.... water, drop by drop, over time, will pierce a stone.
Consider yourself aqueous, my friend.... A mere drop in the ocean.
But without that drop, the ocean would be the poorer....
Awrrh c'mon! Does me encouraging more effort from Buddhists mean that I want it all sorted right now? That is a BIG leap you have made there, my friend! Forget how things seem to be, because I have never said that I want everything sorted now, basically, because that is impossible and i'm not a total idiot.
My water drop is one that happens to encourage the other water drops - such is life, we all have different roles to play. Gandhi could have sat back and said 'arhhh all of this colonial stuff will take care of itself, I am but one simple drop in the ocean', but instead he realised that his one water drop actually had a fair bit of power to effect change and so he did it, and he made a difference. So, how is this different?
I have it in my heart to challenge and encourage, that is my nature, and I just live it. It may make a difference, it may not, but to see what I consider wrong and to shrink doesn't seem right, especially when I know that challenging wrong and encouraging good does make a difference.
You seem to wish to sit back and let everything unfold, as if how it unfolds is separate to your own contribution. You seem to think that if you went and volunteered with some naughty teenagers that this makes no difference to the world. I don't want or expect the world to change right now, BUT, I tell you one thing, if all the good, caring, compassionate people stood up and gave 100% towards creating a better world then by the end of next week our world would be transformed. The second biggest problem in the world is apathy - the biggest problem are the belief systems that justify that apathy. You have a light, there is dark, take it there.
So, are the monks who live in solitude and wait for people to come to them guilty of apathy?
Well, good question! My feeling is that life / karma will always place us where we can do the most good for life. We can't make a judgement on how that good will unfold, but I don't believe anyone is anywhere in any situation that at the deepest level is not good for them and for the whole of life. If your heart compels you to become a monk then this is where life needs you to serve life best, whether you do or not depends upon how you live within that position.
I am here in Middlesbrough, this is where life has placed me, and where my heart directs me to be. But I could be in Middlesbrough hitting the clubs and living it up whilst ignoring everyone else's suffering. The question, really, is what is your reason for not helping? I am sure that if life brought suffering to you - for example, you came across a homeless girl sleeping in a gutter, then you would do something. My point is, instead of waiting for life to bring you that girl, why not live your life searching out the other girls too?
There is darkness on this planet. There is darkness around you. You have a light, and it is bright and clear to me, so why not take your light to those suffering? When you were in Middlesbrough suffering, would you not have welcomed someone bringing a light into your life? Now, don't make a judgement on what light entails, because it could be anything, but think about what you needed most... would you not have welcomed that light being brought to you to meet those needs?
We have legs. We have movement. There is nothing to say that we must remain stationary. The Buddha walked and walked and walked, and he took his light as far and as wide as he could to make a difference to those he could. His compassion was active and energetic and relentless. As was Christ's, as was Gandhi's, as was and is so many's. Being a monk and allowing life to guide people to you may be the best effort you can make for that life. That monk may develop so much wisdom by being alone that he serves life best that way. I, myself, need time alone. I go into retreat. I accept that for me to serve to the best of my ability requires that I take time out to reflect and recharge.
All i'm saying is find how you can best serve life. And look honestly at your reasons for not doing so (if you don't). Could you give more? Are there places to take your light? I am doing so now... I have brought my light here, i've brought questions, i'm challenging things, it's not that I am right or wrong, i'm just being myself and giving my life to making a difference. I feel that spending some time here raising these questions may prompt some additional effort in others, which would obviously be a positive thing. I am by no means not taking action just because my action is talking on a discussion forum.
Y'know, whatever you have to offer, do your best to offer it. Only you know whether you are doing that. I'm not judging, I don't know your lives, you could all be absolute angels. But if, having looked honestly at yourself, you decide that you could give more and use your light more effectively, then think about how, because lives are changed by carrying our light, and the world will be made better for having the courage to step out and do so.
You seem to wish to sit back and let everything unfold, as if how it unfolds is separate to your own contribution.
We all do what we can, and to quote Tesco, "every little helps".
I think you're trying to work out what you can do, and we've been making some suggestions. But I think at some point you'll need to stop talking and actually go out and do something.
But I could be in Middlesbrough hitting the clubs and living it up whilst ignoring everyone else's suffering.
Oh god it's just the idea of going to the Empire as living it up
Have you ever been clubbing in Middlesbrough?
Man, not one night did I go out without seeing a fight. 10 years of that scene, not one night.
The question, really, is what is your reason for not helping? I am sure that if life brought suffering to you - for example, you came across a homeless girl sleeping in a gutter, then you would do something. My point is, instead of waiting for life to bring you that girl, why not live your life searching out the other girls too?
I am helping, I'm seeking enlightenment and working to grow spiritually. "Charity starts at home". The act of reaching enlightenment, even if you leave the body and don't go on to teach or be in the world, serves all of mankind because we're all connected by the virtue of our source.
I was also a political activist for long enough to know that most "causes" and "helping people" is egotism. An attitude of "I can save the world" saves nobody. It's all just egotism. A thinly veiled, "I'm so great because I'm helping" which always comes with a side of "you're not doing what I perceive as helping so I'm better than you" and "everyone should be doing what I'm doing because I'm right".
I was taught that the wise don't draw attention to themselves and avoid ostentatious display.
The great people worked silently, like Mother Teresa. Sure, attention was brought to her, but she didn't go looking for it. She never rallied people, she never tried to change people. She just silently fed people. I know you're not a fan of MT (bloody Hitchens - actually I was talking to someone who knew him after he died, and he said he was actually really kind in his own brusque sort of way, but I have to wonder about someone who would spend so many years actively vilifying someone so clearly saintly) but you can't deny the good she did, and the wonderful example she set for missionaries.
And don't bring Gandhi up again, you're not Gandhi, he was enlightened
There is darkness on this planet. There is darkness around you. You have a light, and it is bright and clear to me, so why not take your light to those suffering? When you were in Middlesbrough suffering, would you not have welcomed someone bringing a light into your life? Now, don't make a judgement on what light entails, because it could be anything, but think about what you needed most... would you not have welcomed that light being brought to you to meet those needs?
Most people who tried to "bring me a light" were more concerned with it illuminating their own greatness What I needed most was the blackness of absolute despair, and I got it
I wouldn't take any "light" that I have anywhere, because I don't need to. There's no distance between you and I in Reality. Where any light is you are already there. That's what I was taught, and it spoke to my soul. Obviously, for me to fully comprehend it I'd have to be enlightened, but it's the only thing that makes sense to me
Some people choose that path of going out there and serving the world in a missionary sense, and I think that's wonderful, but it's a path that needs to be walked with extraordinary care. "Big ideas" and "changing the world" are so often just egotism. Mother Teresa again, but she never tried to change the world. She just went and fed one person at a time "that's how we count, one, one, one". She was never about reaching "the masses" she was about reaching one person. Just one. "We can never do great things on this earth, just small things with great love".
If you're into missionary work, well, I think MT is the greatest missionary.
Perhaps it would be fruitful for you to find a role model in missionary work and just study the crap out of them. Read everything they ever wrote or said and model yourself after them. You like Gandhi a lot (Gandhi was really cool) maybe you should try and model yourself after him and follow his footsteps. Study the crap out of him, the things he did, said, wrote, even the way he walked and spoke and moved, and make yourself less you and more Gandhi (not that there's anything wrong with you, just that Gandhi was more evolved). But I mean seriously, study the hell out of him. Spend months or even years doing it.
But I could be in Middlesbrough hitting the clubs and living it up whilst ignoring everyone else's suffering.
Oh god it's just the idea of going to the Empire as living it up
Have you ever been clubbing in Middlesbrough?
Man, not one night did I go out without seeing a fight. 10 years of that scene, not one night.
The question, really, is what is your reason for not helping? I am sure that if life brought suffering to you - for example, you came across a homeless girl sleeping in a gutter, then you would do something. My point is, instead of waiting for life to bring you that girl, why not live your life searching out the other girls too?
I am helping, I'm seeking enlightenment and working to grow spiritually. "Charity starts at home". The act of reaching enlightenment, even if you leave the body and don't go on to teach or be in the world, serves all of mankind because we're all connected by the virtue of our source.
I was also a political activist for long enough to know that most "causes" and "helping people" is egotism. An attitude of "I can save the world" saves nobody. It's all just egotism. A thinly veiled, "I'm so great because I'm helping" which always comes with a side of "you're not doing what I perceive as helping so I'm better than you" and "everyone should be doing what I'm doing because I'm right".
I was taught that the wise don't draw attention to themselves and avoid ostentatious display.
The great people worked silently, like Mother Teresa. Sure, attention was brought to her, but she didn't go looking for it. She never rallied people, she never tried to change people. She just silently fed people. I know you're not a fan of MT (bloody Hitchens - actually I was talking to someone who knew him after he died, and he said he was actually really kind in his own brusque sort of way, but I have to wonder about someone who would spend so many years actively vilifying someone so clearly saintly) but you can't deny the good she did, and the wonderful example she set for missionaries.
And don't bring Gandhi up again, you're not Gandhi, he was enlightened
There is darkness on this planet. There is darkness around you. You have a light, and it is bright and clear to me, so why not take your light to those suffering? When you were in Middlesbrough suffering, would you not have welcomed someone bringing a light into your life? Now, don't make a judgement on what light entails, because it could be anything, but think about what you needed most... would you not have welcomed that light being brought to you to meet those needs?
Most people who tried to "bring me a light" were more concerned with it illuminating their own greatness What I needed most was the blackness of absolute despair, and I got it
I wouldn't take any "light" that I have anywhere, because I don't need to. There's no distance between you and I in Reality. Where any light is you are already there. That's what I was taught, and it spoke to my soul. Obviously, for me to fully comprehend it I'd have to be enlightened, but it's the only thing that makes sense to me
Some people choose that path of going out there and serving the world in a missionary sense, and I think that's wonderful, but it's a path that needs to be walked with extraordinary care. "Big ideas" and "changing the world" are so often just egotism. Mother Teresa again, but she never tried to change the world. She just went and fed one person at a time "that's how we count, one, one, one". She was never about reaching "the masses" she was about reaching one person. Just one. "We can never do great things on this earth, just small things with great love".
If you're into missionary work, well, I think MT is the greatest missionary.
Perhaps it would be fruitful for you to find a role model in missionary work and just study the crap out of them. Read everything they ever wrote or said and model yourself after them. You like Gandhi a lot (Gandhi was really cool) maybe you should try and model yourself after him and follow his footsteps. Study the crap out of him, the things he did, said, wrote, even the way he walked and spoke and moved, and make yourself less you and more Gandhi (not that there's anything wrong with you, just that Gandhi was more evolved). But I mean seriously, study the hell out of him. Spend months or even years doing it.
I'm actually going to follow my own advice there
I've never been clubbing anywhere, just a few rock clubs when I was a teen (Georgian in Stocko etc.) cos I was a mosh kid. But that life seems to suit plenty well!
I think a lot of what you say is very true. The thing is - and i'm kinda speculating here so don't quote me on it - that there seems to be a kind of event horizon whereby an action that would have previously been egotistical remains the same action but is no longer egotistical. For example, I speak a bit here about compassionate action and its importance, and I do so on the back of having done volunteer work... Now, you might regard this as me trumping myself up, trying to get everyone to see me as oh-so-wonderful etc. etc. Which is fair enough, because certainly in the past when I was very spiritually insecure I did tend to - subtly, not boasting - bring up certain good deeds because I was so desperate for acknowledgement to give me some confidence, and maybe that still remains to some degree.
But talking here like this is nothing to do with me attempting to appear good, because, let's face it, if that was my motivation then i'd have shut up a long, long time ago, since i've provoked much more disagreement than I have agreement! And also, if I want to appear as good to everyone then it is much easier to spend my time writing lovely posts than it is to stand up and challenge and ask questions that might offend and upset others, which is what I have done. So, I don't feel that I am in any sense here trying to make myself look all super, which leaves the alternative that, I am here trying to honestly do good, and everything I write that may appear to be egotistical is on the other side of that event horizon where it is actually being quite humbly shared... which I know it is.
Anyway, I am not Mother Theresa. We are all unique. There is a place for people to make a difference through ideas, and a place for people to just take simple actions. There is no one right path. I follow my heart. Ultimately, the world will become a better place when we have ideas and philosophies that enable good actions, and that is what I seek to offer... good ideas that breed love. If I were to do otherwise then i'd be betraying the faculties that life / God / karma has given me. I don't need to do as MT / Gandhi / Buddha did to do good, I just need to trust my heart and act on it. Good ideas have a greater impact on the world than good actions. The Buddha, I am sure, did some lovely things, but we are inspired and influenced by his ideas much more than by his actions... Jesus was a mix of both, his example on the cross set a new spiritual standard on this planet, but his ideas too are what gives blood to the Christian movement. Ideas can change the world, they have done over and over, and will continue to, and that is where my interest lies and where I feel I can make a difference... is there any reason for me to defy my nature?
Well, whatever you do, just be cautious of the ego. It is tenacious and do your best.
On another note... I bet you fifty bucks we've crossed paths at one point or another. You're the right age and we were part of the same crowd when we were younger. What school did you go to?
No, I'm younger than you but most of my friends were around your age. Yeah, I remember Blaise's lol, then the scene kind of moved to the Arena when it was just the top floor, then that closed down for a while, and the Georgian was always just around in the background. I grew out of metal though
I didn't know anyone who went to Ian Ramsey though.
Yeah me too, I started out on Korn, Deftones, basically nu-metal when it came out, but that got tired quick and my music taste expanded away from metal, but then the metal scene got good again with bands like Meshuggah, Dillinger Escape Plan etc. so I got back into it. Amazing that we started off brawling and here we are swapping notes on the same home town. Life, aye.
0
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
Yeah, same deal. Never went back to it though, but I am branded with a Nine Inch Nails tattoo more of a classic rock fan these days.
And we weren't brawling! That's hilarious. Maybe if you feel that way then I've been a little too harsh, I just like to get to the point, you know? So apologies if you feel battered in any way, that wasn't my intention, though I do know I'm a bit rough around the edges.
I know we weren't brawling! It's all good, you are straight up, and it felt a little relentless at times, but I need it, it helps me grow, it keeps me aware, but I suppose my ego wasn't expecting it so it stung a little. I think more than anything my ego just wants to be held up and celebrated like a little demi-God lol - the poor thing, it's always getting humbled.
I think it's good to think of this subject in terms of individuals, too -- sometimes breaking through to one person is the ultimate miracle, I think. Because you never know what that one person will go on to do. If you can convince one kid that crime and hurting people for money is less desirable than doing good, you have succeeded!
mindatrisk: Marianne Williamson's words are quite profound as are H.P. Lovecraft's.
"We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." ~ The Call of Cthulhu, Lovecraft
We may have already accomplished this, i.e, a new dark age that is modern in every sense of the word, but still dark.
There is a much darker side to mankind: his ability to take the light and turn it into darkness still calling it light. Given that Buddhism is a religion of light, watching modern Buddhists turn it into a religion of darkness by which Buddhism ends up teaching a veiled form of nihilism, is truly remarkable and frightening. This is not unlike Dostoyevsky's "Grand Inquisitor" parable in which a dark Christianity exists in place of true Christianity (also a religion of light), all from the assumption that the masses can't handle the truth. Personally, I believe the masses can handle the truth which is terrifying for gate-keeper psychopaths who rule the world from their dark lairs; who are profoundly evil.
mindatrisk: Marianne Williamson's words are quite profound as are H.P. Lovecraft's.
"We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." ~ The Call of Cthulhu, Lovecraft
We may have already accomplished this, i.e, a new dark age that is modern in every sense of the word, but still dark.
There is a much darker side to mankind: his ability to take the light and turn it into darkness still calling it light. Given that Buddhism is a religion of light, watching modern Buddhists turn it into a religion of darkness by which Buddhism ends up teaching a veiled form of nihilism, is truly remarkable and frightening. This is not unlike Dostoyevsky's "Grand Inquisitor" parable in which a dark Christianity exists in place of true Christianity (also a religion of light), all from the assumption that the masses can't handle the truth. Personally, I believe the masses can handle the truth which is terrifying for gate-keeper psychopaths who rule the world from their dark lairs; who are profoundly evil.
Can you expand on your thinking a bit? This sounds very interesting. I don't have many views on the state of Buddhism beyond the thought that people who hold a light should take it to where it is dark, and this is not something most Buddhists seem to want to do. I have read a lot of different reasons in this thread for why that is the case, but each one is a lie shrouding the actual reality of their feelings. Because, everyone here if faced with a starving African child would feed it; everyone here if faced with a severely wounded Iraqi women would care for her; everyone here who found a homeless person sleeping under a bush would give their all to find them safe shelter... and everyone here would agree that that was the right thing to do, but no-one here seems to want to go out and do this work. So, the difference between compassionate action and not acting with compassion is not any philosophy or belief system or anything but geography. That is it... geography. They'll help if faced with it, but won't move themselves towards it to help.
"The pure light is not shone in vain--Any who meet it, it will cause to dissolve heavy barriers...." (The Flower Ornament Scripture/Avatamsaka Sutra).
This is from the Pali canon:
"Light-bringers, dhamma-speakers, open the door// Of the deathless, set free many folk from bondage" (Itivuttaka III, iv, v).
The non-awakened suffer from spiritual inversion (viparyâsa). Thus it stands to reason that what the non-awakened call dharma is adharma running counter to true dharma. This is the time of the counterfeit dharma (pratirûpakadharma), the end of Buddhism, in other words.
Taking this one step further, everything humans do, for the most part, is spiritually counterproductive. Right now we have the means to help everyone on the planet, but this has not happened since we have inverted minds in charge. The opposite will happen, and it has happened. The 20th century, for example, was the age of genocide. The 21st century may prove even worse if we don't get rid of the spiritually inverted, i.e., the psychopaths in charge who delight in cruelty, the opposite of compassion.
You may not like this, but Buddhism doesn't ask of its followers to buy airline tickets and travel to Africa to minister to the suffering. It is ineffective to say the least. We already have NGOs that do that and do it better than a million American do gooder Buddhists who don't know much of anything about third world medicine, installing potable water systems, etc.
The Carter Center in Georgia does 'do gooding' quite well who has saved the eyesight of perhaps millions of Africans by just using Porta-Potties. Putting in potable waters systems, using refrigerated trucks to bring in fresh produce from the farms of Kenya to the cities are part of the solution. In fact, their are many excellent solutions for every specific problem. So why so little forward progress or so it seems?
The fact that you seem to ignore, and I could be wrong, is countries where poverty and disease seem everywhere present are nothing less than giant Gulags where the military mainly keep everyone in a constant state of terror, ill health and borderline starvation. How about a Buddhist army of the faithful who will go and kick some ass? We could first overthrow these despotic regimes; then the NGOs could go in and give the proper aid as they are well trained to do. Well, we tried that in Iraq and Afghanistan. It hasn't worked all that well. Too many innocents have been killed as a result of American compassion.
In the meantime, let's first radically change our own minds that created this mess. The power of a transformed mind is far greater than you can imagine. Spirit is intolerant of cruelty and suffering, but we cannot unleash such a spiritual force by practicing materialism and wallowing in hedonism—trying to destroy spirit. Things will only become worse.
The real danger we face right now is that we are actually paving a road to hell with good intentions—I mean very good and noble intentions. While I applaud your good intentions, I have seen too many roads all leading to hell because the minds that determine the direction and the means are psychopathic (psychopathy as the driving force behind present day macro-social evil is extensively addressed in Andrew M. Lobaczewski's book, Political Ponerology).
"The pure light is not shone in vain--Any who meet it, it will cause to dissolve heavy barriers...." (The Flower Ornament Scripture/Avatamsaka Sutra).
This is from the Pali canon:
"Light-bringers, dhamma-speakers, open the door// Of the deathless, set free many folk from bondage" (Itivuttaka III, iv, v).
The non-awakened suffer from spiritual inversion (viparyâsa). Thus it stands to reason that what the non-awakened call dharma is adharma running counter to true dharma. This is the time of the counterfeit dharma (pratirûpakadharma), the end of Buddhism, in other words.
Taking this one step further, everything humans do, for the most part, is spiritually counterproductive. Right now we have the means to help everyone on the planet, but this has not happened since we have inverted minds in charge. The opposite will happen, and it has happened. The 20th century, for example, was the age of genocide. The 21st century may prove even worse if we don't get rid of the spiritually inverted, i.e., the psychopaths in charge who delight in cruelty, the opposite of compassion.
You may not like this, but Buddhism doesn't ask of its followers to buy airline tickets and travel to Africa to minister to the suffering. It is ineffective to say the least. We already have NGOs that do that and do it better than a million American do gooder Buddhists who don't know much of anything about third world medicine, installing potable water systems, etc.
The Carter Center in Georgia does 'do gooding' quite well who has saved the eyesight of perhaps millions of Africans by just using Porta-Potties. Putting in potable waters systems, using refrigerated trucks to bring in fresh produce from the farms of Kenya to the cities are part of the solution. In fact, their are many excellent solutions for every specific problem. So why so little forward progress or so it seems?
The fact that you seem to ignore, and I could be wrong, is countries where poverty and disease seem everywhere present are nothing less than giant Gulags where the military mainly keep everyone in a constant state of terror, ill health and borderline starvation. How about a Buddhist army of the faithful who will go and kick some ass? We could first overthrow these despotic regimes; then the NGOs could go in and give the proper aid as they are well trained to do. Well, we tried that in Iraq and Afghanistan. It hasn't worked all that well. Too many innocents have been killed as a result of American compassion.
In the meantime, let's first radically change our own minds that created this mess. The power of a transformed mind is far greater than you can imagine. Spirit is intolerant of cruelty and suffering, but we cannot unleash such a spiritual force by practicing materialism and wallowing in hedonism—trying to destroy spirit. Things will only become worse.
The real danger we face right now is that we are actually paving a road to hell with good intentions—I mean very good and noble intentions. While I applaud your good intentions, I have seen too many roads all leading to hell because the minds that determine the direction and the means are psychopathic (psychopathy as the driving force behind present day macro-social evil is extensively addressed in Andrew M. Lobaczewski's book, Political Ponerology).
I absolutely agree with you. I would never advocate travelling around the world trying to 'do good'. What I want to see is an awakening of minds and hearts, and this can best be done by being a light filled presence in our communities. If the minds of the domineering and exploitative western populations awaken then we will challenge and dissolve those organisations and systems that rape and pillage other cultures around the world for our own material gain. This is how we will solve such problems.
My only interest is in spreading love and spreading it in such a manner that it proliferates, which usually requires some sort of philosophy or set of ideas to base loving actions upon. I have never seen love fail, and I don't think it is possible to fail, but many times actions are conducted in the guise of 'love' which lead to terrible outcomes, but this is not an issue with love, but the reality that the guise was not love.
As for living in certain 'ages'. I've read allsorts of different cultural views of what 'age' we are in and what it means. Hindu ages, Mayan ages, Buddhist ages etc. I'm sure there is evidence for them all should we seek that evidence, but, for me, it is a very flimsy premise to base our actions upon. I have done my best to live my life with love for quite a few years now and it has only ever brought wonderful results. I don't see how it is likely to lead anywhere but to good... I might be wrong, but the awful actions orchestrated by so called psychopaths have nothing to do with love, and their existence does not negate the actual reality of love, it just means that love has a powerful opposition at present, which is evidently true on this planet, but to me that is only more reason for the truly loving souls to step out and shine in whatever way their heart sees fit.
the awful actions orchestrated by so called psychopaths have nothing to do with love, and their existence does not negate the actual reality of love, it just means that love has a powerful opposition at present, which is evidently true on this planet, but to me that is only more reason for the truly loving souls to step out and shine in whatever way their heart sees fit.
You will like this. Dr. Robert Hare is one of the foremost experts on psychopathy.
the awful actions orchestrated by so called psychopaths have nothing to do with love, and their existence does not negate the actual reality of love, it just means that love has a powerful opposition at present, which is evidently true on this planet, but to me that is only more reason for the truly loving souls to step out and shine in whatever way their heart sees fit.
You will like this. Dr. Robert Hare is one of the foremost experts on psychopathy.
Very interesting! My personal perspective is that all human interaction is opportunity to practice and develop loving attributes - the more challenging the interaction, the greater the growth potential. If humans can learn to hold this perspective then psychopaths become our greatest asset in a globally awakened humanity, for they provide the catalyst that can spark massive spiritual developments. I had an ex-girlfriend who was nuts, and I had a nightmare 2 years with her, but I kept my attention focused on love and becoming more loving and as such my growth was enormous, and for that agony of those 2 years I experienced an education that allows me to love others to a greater degree. We just need to learn to embrace, not reject, these challenges.
My personal perspective is that all human interaction is opportunity to practice and develop loving attributes - the more challenging the interaction, the greater the growth potential. If humans can learn to hold this perspective then psychopaths become our greatest asset in a globally awakened humanity, for they provide the catalyst that can spark massive spiritual developments. I had an ex-girlfriend who was nuts, and I had a nightmare 2 years with her, but I kept my attention focused on love and becoming more loving and as such my growth was enormous, and for that agony of those 2 years I experienced an education that allows me to love others to a greater degree. We just need to learn to embrace, not reject, these challenges.
Hello Mindatrisk,
Corporations (and psychopaths?) want you to love them and will treat you very well if you buy their goods and services.
We will not promote or evangelise this practice, but instead depend upon the strength of our example to attract attention and interest. If someone notices that we are unusually kind, patient etc. and takes an interest in how we are so, then and only then will we share our practice, our ideas, our beliefs. This will serve to motivate our own development and expression of loving kindness, whilst ensuring that we do not isolate anyone nor create a false impression of our practice. Simply put, we walk before we talk. Idea Two - Take our light to where it is dark.
To make the strongest impression and attract the most attention to our practice we must place ourselves where our loving kindness is most needed and will be most valued and recognised. Remember, we are setting an example to promote loving kindness, not ourselves, so seeking attention is not about the ego, but about allowing people to see the potential and benefit of loving kindness.
We should seek to place ourselves where our practice will most stand out and make an impression and benefit those around us. Ideal circumstances would be anywhere where conflict arises and behavioural issues are prevalent. This could be working with drug addicts, children with behavioural issues, paedophiles etc. Our ability to express tolerance, empathy, forgiveness etc. in these situations are what will attract people to our practice.
Idea Three - Practice, practice, practice… home life
Our example within conflict situations must be near impeccable. To be inconsistent will undermine our practice and make us unattractive. Before we place ourselves in such situations we must commit to dedicated practice. We can do this by reconsidering our lives as one great extended opportunity for the practice and development of loving attributes. If we become stuck in a queue then this becomes nothing but an opportunity to practice patience. If we hear about someone sexually abusing a child then this becomes nothing but an opportunity to practice empathy. If someone is personally attacking us then this becomes nothing but an opportunity to practice tolerance. And so on.
The key field of practice is our home lives with our family. For most of us it is with our own families that our practice can slip… we must not be ‘street angels, home devils’. If we can master our practice in our home life then we will be much better prepared and much more confident to express our practice in the conflict situations that we are aiming to place ourselves within. We must recognise that, as difficult as a situation may be, the opportunity to practice and develop our loving kindness is more valuable to ourselves than the difficult situation is detrimental.
With a little practice and with increased confidence in our ability to be an example of loving kindness in conflict situations we will soon anticipate, welcome and embrace conflict situations to demonstrate loving kindness within, in the knowledge that successful expression of loving kindness in these moments is what will most attract people to living their lives with loving kindness.
Recommend being as invisible, in the sense of transparency and visibility, as possible. That is the only way to keep ego out of it.
The Practice
To achieve the above I’ve taken what I consider to be the five key attributes that would need to be practiced and developed. They are:
These characteristics can be naturally enhanced by contemplation (meditative practices). It is not easy to change however, and someone has already mentioned that people don't change unless they want to change. Closer to the truth, people tend to change when they are forced by circumstances to change.
My personal perspective is that all human interaction is opportunity to practice and develop loving attributes - the more challenging the interaction, the greater the growth potential. If humans can learn to hold this perspective then psychopaths become our greatest asset in a globally awakened humanity, for they provide the catalyst that can spark massive spiritual developments. I had an ex-girlfriend who was nuts, and I had a nightmare 2 years with her, but I kept my attention focused on love and becoming more loving and as such my growth was enormous, and for that agony of those 2 years I experienced an education that allows me to love others to a greater degree. We just need to learn to embrace, not reject, these challenges.
Hello Mindatrisk,
Corporations (and psychopaths?) want you to love them and will treat you very well if you buy their goods and services.
So, hate them? The love I talk about is not foolish. It sees. And, it can always find a way to serve anyone to their highest interest.
These characteristics can be naturally enhanced by contemplation (meditative practices). It is not easy to change however, and someone has already mentioned that people don't change unless they want to change. Closer to the truth, people tend to change when they are forced by circumstances to change.
That is why I suggested those particular practices, because I feel that most people already want to be tolerant, patient etc. but they forget why it is so important, but once reminded they will naturally lean towards adopting these qualities. To me, it is less about making people change, and more about reminding them of what they already agree with and wish to be.
Corporations (and psychopaths?) want you to love them and will treat you very well if you buy their goods and services.
Dr. Robert Hare has said it in so many ways: psychopathy is incurable. For a psychopath who murders or when one is in control of a major corporation the outcome is easy to guess, they enjoy hurting others—it is their raison d'être. Pouring love into a psychopath is like pouring water down a rat hole. Probably, very much like a psychopath, the Buddha described the icchantika as "those who harm others, those who abide in twisted views, those who purposely act contrary to the moral precepts."
So, hate them? The love I talk about is not foolish. It sees. And, it can always find a way to serve anyone to their highest interest.
One doesn't have to hate (one of the three poisons), but one needs to be wary of the psychopath. Like most people who have a personality disorder, a cure is next to impossible. A psychopath can be very charming, masking their true identity. Many are highly intelligent and all of them wear a mask of sanity. Even the late Mother Teresa might have had psychopathic tendencies who was not adverse to letting the dying participate in the suffering of Christ sans painkillers. Even gurus, and especially do-gooders, have to be carefully examined for traits of psychopathy.
BTW, one of the great books on psychopathy is still Dr. Hervey Cleckley's book, The Mask of Sanity.
So, hate them? The love I talk about is not foolish. It sees. And, it can always find a way to serve anyone to their highest interest.
One doesn't have to hate (one of the three poisons), but one needs to be wary of the psychopath. Like most people who have a personality disorder, a cure is next to impossible. A psychopath can be very charming, masking their true identity. Many are highly intelligent and all of them wear a mask of sanity. Even the late Mother Teresa might have had psychopathic tendencies who was not adverse to letting the dying participate in the suffering of Christ sans painkillers. Even gurus, and especially do-gooders, have to be carefully examined for traits of psychopathy.
BTW, one of the great books on psychopathy is still Dr. Hervey Cleckley's book, The Mask of Sanity.
I think that with love we can be sure that it will effective but not how it will be effective. Loving them may on a karmic level give them a better birth next lifetime around that allows them to address their problems. But most importantly for ourselves, holding love towards a psychopath would increase our spiritual muscle massively. As I said, my ex-girlfriend was not very well at all (BPD.... *shudders*) but finding it within me to forgive her and think only loving thoughts for her gives me so much confidence to love others, and I do feel that being able to love my ex-girlfriend (from a distance, we have no contact) means that I can love just about anyone, and that is a great belief to have in myself.
My personal perspective is that all human interaction is opportunity to practice and develop loving attributes - the more challenging the interaction, the greater the growth potential. If humans can learn to hold this perspective then psychopaths become our greatest asset in a globally awakened humanity, for they provide the catalyst that can spark massive spiritual developments. I had an ex-girlfriend who was nuts, and I had a nightmare 2 years with her, but I kept my attention focused on love and becoming more loving and as such my growth was enormous, and for that agony of those 2 years I experienced an education that allows me to love others to a greater degree. We just need to learn to embrace, not reject, these challenges.
Hello Mindatrisk,
Corporations (and psychopaths?) want you to love them and will treat you very well if you buy their goods and services.
So, hate them? The love I talk about is not foolish. It sees. And, it can always find a way to serve anyone to their highest interest.
People generally don't hate corporations and many 'love' a lot of them. It's only when we're wronged by a corporation that hate comes into the picture.
These characteristics can be naturally enhanced by contemplation (meditative practices). It is not easy to change however, and someone has already mentioned that people don't change unless they want to change. Closer to the truth, people tend to change when they are forced by circumstances to change.
That is why I suggested those particular practices, because I feel that most people already want to be tolerant, patient etc. but they forget why it is so important, but once reminded they will naturally lean towards adopting these qualities. To me, it is less about making people change, and more about reminding them of what they already agree with and wish to be.
Yes, "making people change" doesn't sound healthy. And reminders are not enough. Look, for example, at people who "wish to be" thinner. They are constantly reminded of their weight and they want to be thinner, yet, often their wish is unfulfilled. Why?
People generally don't hate corporations and many 'love' a lot of them. It's only when we're wronged by a corporation that hate comes into the picture.
Another problem with a Dharma for the masses is a psychopath might well become the leader—a new Maitreya. It should be a given that many people are susceptible to psychopathic manipulation. From this, we would not be wrong to assume that the psychopathic religious leader and those who follow him, will always give short shrift to what man really is. E.g., man is only the sum of his anatomical parts; he has no soul; the universe is amoral; death ending all is nirvana. It might even be argued that Western Buddhism shows psychopathic tendencies with its somewhat oversimplified understanding of what man really is and what he can truly be. A psychopathic Buddhist monk can easily wear a pious mask and still be capable of destroying the souls of his followers with an evil doctrine.
BPD actually has an excellent chance of remission. 90% of people diagnosed with it are in remission by age 50.
For real? Last time I was looking into it a few years ago the stats were really bad... basically saying it was untreatable. There was DBT (I think) which was built around mindfulness practices, but the biggest problem was the fragile state of the BDPs ego which meant acknowledging that they had a problem was near impossible, hence so few people with BPD being 'cured'. But God, those 2 years were about as close to a nightmare as I could imagine in a relationships. It was just relentless brutality and darkness. I came out of that relationship feeling like a trauma victim. But all is well now! I see flowers and rainbows, I enjoy time petting small animals and I delight in picnics near grassy banked streams.
Another problem with a Dharma for the masses is a psychopath might well become the leader—a new Maitreya. It should be a given that many people are susceptible to psychopathic manipulation. From this, we would not be wrong to assume that the psychopathic religious leader and those who follow him, will always give short shrift to what man really is. E.g., man is only the sum of his anatomical parts; he has no soul; the universe is amoral; death ending all is nirvana. It might even be argued that Western Buddhism shows psychopathic tendencies with its somewhat oversimplified understanding of what man really is and what he can truly be. A psychopathic Buddhist monk can easily wear a pious mask and still be capable of destroying the souls of his followers with an evil doctrine.
Are you sitting under a raincloud, my friend?! You have some gloomy views! I feel it is very difficult to truly fake love and kindness. You can be all nicey, nicey, but you soon give yourself away. Then again, look at the fucking Pope. Man, does that guy have devils in his eyes, but no-one seems to notice him.
You were a trauma victim! BPD is very manipulative and an emotional roller coaster for all involved. It can be very traumatic for the people close to the sufferer, particularly those who they get involved with romantically. It's just the nature of the disorder.
But yes, most people do get better with age.
It's an interesting issue, with both "nature" and "nurture" being factors, and often the presence of PTSD. It's too complex to talk about here, but it boils down to neurophysiology and maladaptive coping skills, both of which can be overcome.
I am aware of the problem and so is Dr. Robert Hare. There is some controversy over the difference between a sociopath and psychopath. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy
Not sure how I feel about Hare. I looked briefly at mask of sanity and without conscience and while his ideas are definitely interesting, they're consistently being met with a lot of resistance in the medical community. He's definitely someone whose career I'll be following with interest, but until I see more general acceptance of his theories I won't be buying into them.
Are you sitting under a raincloud, my friend?! You have some gloomy views! I feel it is very difficult to truly fake love and kindness. You can be all nicey, nicey, but you soon give yourself away. Then again, look at the fucking Pope. Man, does that guy have devils in his eyes, but no-one seems to notice him.
I look at psychopathy as being somewhat of a huge problem for Western culture which has had some influence on Buddhism. Disaster capitalism, environmental degradation and the rise of a carceral society are some obvious examples that come to mind.
I think it is very easy to fake love and kindness. Movie actors do it quite well—they get awards for it. Believe it or not one needs to be trained in proper therapeutic communication in which there are five levels of empathic response. In other words, we ain't naturally kind. Yes, our intentions in hind sight may seem good, but what we said to this other person may almost be cruel.
I agree with your points about the Pope. The Roman Catholic Church embraced the old Imperium Romanum; even some of its cruelty and zeal for conquest. At this point, I will only say that macrosocial evil is alive and well in the West which comes by way of psychopathy; which has been around for a long time.
Before you shine your love on humanity be advised that love does not actually conquer all. Sadly, love, at least in the West, has not succeeded in overcoming the things which cause us to hate.
RebeccaS: In a broader view, one is a sociopath because, in some way, his social milieu helped to make him this way. On the other hand, one is a psychopath as result of a psychologically negative relationship, for example, maternal deprivation.
You were a trauma victim! BPD is very manipulative and an emotional roller coaster for all involved. It can be very traumatic for the people close to the sufferer, particularly those who they get involved with romantically. It's just the nature of the disorder.
But yes, most people do get better with age.
It's an interesting issue, with both "nature" and "nurture" being factors, and often the presence of PTSD. It's too complex to talk about here, but it boils down to neurophysiology and maladaptive coping skills, both of which can be overcome.
Where does your interest stem from? I only realised my ex was BPD after about 18 months, and it was a huge lightbulb moment and helped me a lot to understand, but by then the relationship was on its last legs. I'm happy if that report is accurate. It's hard to know, because BPD is so manipulative, whether their results are accurate. I know that with my ex that her Dad abandoned her and her Mum when she was about 1 year old, so that might account for the abandonment aspects which is so central to BPD, she also claimed to have been sexually abused by some neighbours through her childhood, but she was such a compulsive liar (even lying about being raped by her ex to me, and so on) that I have no idea why she was the way she was. But whatever the reasons are, God help her, cos she is going to experience so much pain in this lifetime. She was hell - hot as hell too haha - but only love will heal her fractured soul. I hope she finds it.
Most people don't get a diagnosis because they don't know they're sick. It's like the disorder precludes the capacity for self-honesty, though compulsive lying isn't a trait of the disorder, it's usually a trait of a co-morbid illness which occur frequently in BPD.
Since the discovery of neuro plasticity (the capacity for the brain to change over time) outlook for remission has become much more positive. Aside from that, as manipulative as BPDs may be, it seems unlikely that any results of study are flawed because of the use of diagnostic imaging tools which can't be manipulated.
It's also speculated that simple diagnosis and awareness of the disorder itself reduce symptoms.
I'm interested in it because it affected my life in a similar way to you. I'm also just generally interested in mental health, psychological wellness as well as its underlying neurophysiology. I would have been a doctor but I'm just not quite smart enough
Most people don't get a diagnosis because they don't know they're sick. It's like the disorder precludes the capacity for self-honesty, though compulsive lying isn't a trait of the disorder, it's usually a trait of a co-morbid illness which occur frequently in BPD.
Since the discovery of neuro plasticity (the capacity for the brain to change over time) outlook for remission has become much more positive. Aside from that, as manipulative as BPDs may be, it seems unlikely that any results of study are flawed because of the use of diagnostic imaging tools which can't be manipulated.
It's also speculated that simple diagnosis and awareness of the disorder itself reduce symptoms.
I'm interested in it because it affected my life in a similar way to you. I'm also just generally interested in mental health, psychological wellness as well as its underlying neurophysiology. I would have been a doctor but I'm just not quite smart enough
I suppose, ultimately, in the grandest scheme of life and whatever it is this all means, we need to find ways to make whatever we are faced with as positive as possible. In the end the best I could do was to consider my interaction with her as an opportunity to practice and become a more loving person for the benefit of her and everyone else i'll meet in this life. It's a tough path to walk and I struggled and failed many times with her, but I really feel that if humanity is to evolve then this is the attitude that we all need to adopt when faced with such damaged and damaging individuals. If these interactions can be utilised to enable our own development then the world can become a more positive place for their presence.
If life is but a game and if we are all one and born of the same spirit then maybe this is the divine purpose of their existence... to provide a catalyst for growth. Maybe at soul level they agreed to come here to play that role - to suffer and express their pain to prompt in others their love and compassion. If that is so, then what a glorious gesture of love it is to enter this realm and play the 'bad guy' to allow the good guys to shine even brighter, knowing that at our truest core that we are all equal and divine and that our lives here are merely characters on the stage of life. Who knows if there is any truth in that, but to me, in such circumstances, if you can adopt a belief system that enables love to come from such horror then that is the wisest move we can make.
Therapy and a desire to change would work. Did your love heal her?
But that is love! A desire to change can only arise from love for herself. Therapy and all other treatments only arose from love for fellow human beings. Love is not limited to hugs and poems and whispered sweet nothings... Love informs and manifests and creates in so many beautiful ways.
Therapy and a desire to change would work. Did your love heal her?
But that is love! A desire to change can only arise from love for herself. Therapy and all other treatments only arose from love for fellow human beings. Love is not limited to hugs and poems and whispered sweet nothings... Love informs and manifests and creates in so many beautiful ways.
Comments
It's like you want it all, and you want it now... you're 'doing the right stuff' but you're witnessing little or no result.
Think on this...
water, in substance, is inconsequential when you compare it to solid rock.
but the Grand Canyon proves otherwise. It might have taken millennia, but it still happened....
water, drop by drop, over time, will pierce a stone.
Consider yourself aqueous, my friend....
A mere drop in the ocean.
But without that drop, the ocean would be the poorer....
My water drop is one that happens to encourage the other water drops - such is life, we all have different roles to play. Gandhi could have sat back and said 'arhhh all of this colonial stuff will take care of itself, I am but one simple drop in the ocean', but instead he realised that his one water drop actually had a fair bit of power to effect change and so he did it, and he made a difference. So, how is this different?
I have it in my heart to challenge and encourage, that is my nature, and I just live it. It may make a difference, it may not, but to see what I consider wrong and to shrink doesn't seem right, especially when I know that challenging wrong and encouraging good does make a difference.
You seem to wish to sit back and let everything unfold, as if how it unfolds is separate to your own contribution. You seem to think that if you went and volunteered with some naughty teenagers that this makes no difference to the world. I don't want or expect the world to change right now, BUT, I tell you one thing, if all the good, caring, compassionate people stood up and gave 100% towards creating a better world then by the end of next week our world would be transformed. The second biggest problem in the world is apathy - the biggest problem are the belief systems that justify that apathy. You have a light, there is dark, take it there.
I am here in Middlesbrough, this is where life has placed me, and where my heart directs me to be. But I could be in Middlesbrough hitting the clubs and living it up whilst ignoring everyone else's suffering. The question, really, is what is your reason for not helping? I am sure that if life brought suffering to you - for example, you came across a homeless girl sleeping in a gutter, then you would do something. My point is, instead of waiting for life to bring you that girl, why not live your life searching out the other girls too?
There is darkness on this planet. There is darkness around you. You have a light, and it is bright and clear to me, so why not take your light to those suffering? When you were in Middlesbrough suffering, would you not have welcomed someone bringing a light into your life? Now, don't make a judgement on what light entails, because it could be anything, but think about what you needed most... would you not have welcomed that light being brought to you to meet those needs?
We have legs. We have movement. There is nothing to say that we must remain stationary. The Buddha walked and walked and walked, and he took his light as far and as wide as he could to make a difference to those he could. His compassion was active and energetic and relentless. As was Christ's, as was Gandhi's, as was and is so many's. Being a monk and allowing life to guide people to you may be the best effort you can make for that life. That monk may develop so much wisdom by being alone that he serves life best that way. I, myself, need time alone. I go into retreat. I accept that for me to serve to the best of my ability requires that I take time out to reflect and recharge.
All i'm saying is find how you can best serve life. And look honestly at your reasons for not doing so (if you don't). Could you give more? Are there places to take your light? I am doing so now... I have brought my light here, i've brought questions, i'm challenging things, it's not that I am right or wrong, i'm just being myself and giving my life to making a difference. I feel that spending some time here raising these questions may prompt some additional effort in others, which would obviously be a positive thing. I am by no means not taking action just because my action is talking on a discussion forum.
Y'know, whatever you have to offer, do your best to offer it. Only you know whether you are doing that. I'm not judging, I don't know your lives, you could all be absolute angels. But if, having looked honestly at yourself, you decide that you could give more and use your light more effectively, then think about how, because lives are changed by carrying our light, and the world will be made better for having the courage to step out and do so.
I think you're trying to work out what you can do, and we've been making some suggestions. But I think at some point you'll need to stop talking and actually go out and do something.
Have you ever been clubbing in Middlesbrough?
Man, not one night did I go out without seeing a fight. 10 years of that scene, not one night. I am helping, I'm seeking enlightenment and working to grow spiritually. "Charity starts at home". The act of reaching enlightenment, even if you leave the body and don't go on to teach or be in the world, serves all of mankind because we're all connected by the virtue of our source.
I was also a political activist for long enough to know that most "causes" and "helping people" is egotism. An attitude of "I can save the world" saves nobody. It's all just egotism. A thinly veiled, "I'm so great because I'm helping" which always comes with a side of "you're not doing what I perceive as helping so I'm better than you" and "everyone should be doing what I'm doing because I'm right".
I was taught that the wise don't draw attention to themselves and avoid ostentatious display.
The great people worked silently, like Mother Teresa. Sure, attention was brought to her, but she didn't go looking for it. She never rallied people, she never tried to change people. She just silently fed people. I know you're not a fan of MT (bloody Hitchens
And don't bring Gandhi up again, you're not Gandhi, he was enlightened
I wouldn't take any "light" that I have anywhere, because I don't need to. There's no distance between you and I in Reality. Where any light is you are already there. That's what I was taught, and it spoke to my soul. Obviously, for me to fully comprehend it I'd have to be enlightened, but it's the only thing that makes sense to me
Some people choose that path of going out there and serving the world in a missionary sense, and I think that's wonderful, but it's a path that needs to be walked with extraordinary care. "Big ideas" and "changing the world" are so often just egotism. Mother Teresa again, but she never tried to change the world. She just went and fed one person at a time "that's how we count, one, one, one". She was never about reaching "the masses" she was about reaching one person. Just one. "We can never do great things on this earth, just small things with great love".
If you're into missionary work, well, I think MT is the greatest missionary.
Perhaps it would be fruitful for you to find a role model in missionary work and just study the crap out of them. Read everything they ever wrote or said and model yourself after them. You like Gandhi a lot (Gandhi was really cool) maybe you should try and model yourself after him and follow his footsteps. Study the crap out of him, the things he did, said, wrote, even the way he walked and spoke and moved, and make yourself less you and more Gandhi
I'm actually going to follow my own advice there
I think a lot of what you say is very true. The thing is - and i'm kinda speculating here so don't quote me on it - that there seems to be a kind of event horizon whereby an action that would have previously been egotistical remains the same action but is no longer egotistical. For example, I speak a bit here about compassionate action and its importance, and I do so on the back of having done volunteer work... Now, you might regard this as me trumping myself up, trying to get everyone to see me as oh-so-wonderful etc. etc. Which is fair enough, because certainly in the past when I was very spiritually insecure I did tend to - subtly, not boasting - bring up certain good deeds because I was so desperate for acknowledgement to give me some confidence, and maybe that still remains to some degree.
But talking here like this is nothing to do with me attempting to appear good, because, let's face it, if that was my motivation then i'd have shut up a long, long time ago, since i've provoked much more disagreement than I have agreement! And also, if I want to appear as good to everyone then it is much easier to spend my time writing lovely posts than it is to stand up and challenge and ask questions that might offend and upset others, which is what I have done. So, I don't feel that I am in any sense here trying to make myself look all super, which leaves the alternative that, I am here trying to honestly do good, and everything I write that may appear to be egotistical is on the other side of that event horizon where it is actually being quite humbly shared... which I know it is.
Anyway, I am not Mother Theresa. We are all unique. There is a place for people to make a difference through ideas, and a place for people to just take simple actions. There is no one right path. I follow my heart. Ultimately, the world will become a better place when we have ideas and philosophies that enable good actions, and that is what I seek to offer... good ideas that breed love. If I were to do otherwise then i'd be betraying the faculties that life / God / karma has given me. I don't need to do as MT / Gandhi / Buddha did to do good, I just need to trust my heart and act on it. Good ideas have a greater impact on the world than good actions. The Buddha, I am sure, did some lovely things, but we are inspired and influenced by his ideas much more than by his actions... Jesus was a mix of both, his example on the cross set a new spiritual standard on this planet, but his ideas too are what gives blood to the Christian movement. Ideas can change the world, they have done over and over, and will continue to, and that is where my interest lies and where I feel I can make a difference... is there any reason for me to defy my nature?
On another note... I bet you fifty bucks we've crossed paths at one point or another. You're the right age and we were part of the same crowd when we were younger. What school did you go to?
I didn't know anyone who went to Ian Ramsey though.
And we weren't brawling! That's hilarious. Maybe if you feel that way then I've been a little too harsh, I just like to get to the point, you know? So apologies if you feel battered in any way, that wasn't my intention, though I do know I'm a bit rough around the edges.
"We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." ~ The Call of Cthulhu, Lovecraft
We may have already accomplished this, i.e, a new dark age that is modern in every sense of the word, but still dark.
There is a much darker side to mankind: his ability to take the light and turn it into darkness still calling it light. Given that Buddhism is a religion of light, watching modern Buddhists turn it into a religion of darkness by which Buddhism ends up teaching a veiled form of nihilism, is truly remarkable and frightening. This is not unlike Dostoyevsky's "Grand Inquisitor" parable in which a dark Christianity exists in place of true Christianity (also a religion of light), all from the assumption that the masses can't handle the truth. Personally, I believe the masses can handle the truth which is terrifying for gate-keeper psychopaths who rule the world from their dark lairs; who are profoundly evil.
This is from the Mahayana canon:
"The pure light is not shone in vain--Any who meet it, it will cause to dissolve heavy barriers...." (The Flower Ornament Scripture/Avatamsaka Sutra).
This is from the Pali canon:
"Light-bringers, dhamma-speakers, open the door// Of the deathless, set free many folk from bondage" (Itivuttaka III, iv, v).
The non-awakened suffer from spiritual inversion (viparyâsa). Thus it stands to reason that what the non-awakened call dharma is adharma running counter to true dharma. This is the time of the counterfeit dharma (pratirûpakadharma), the end of Buddhism, in other words.
Taking this one step further, everything humans do, for the most part, is spiritually counterproductive. Right now we have the means to help everyone on the planet, but this has not happened since we have inverted minds in charge. The opposite will happen, and it has happened. The 20th century, for example, was the age of genocide. The 21st century may prove even worse if we don't get rid of the spiritually inverted, i.e., the psychopaths in charge who delight in cruelty, the opposite of compassion.
You may not like this, but Buddhism doesn't ask of its followers to buy airline tickets and travel to Africa to minister to the suffering. It is ineffective to say the least. We already have NGOs that do that and do it better than a million American do gooder Buddhists who don't know much of anything about third world medicine, installing potable water systems, etc.
The Carter Center in Georgia does 'do gooding' quite well who has saved the eyesight of perhaps millions of Africans by just using Porta-Potties. Putting in potable waters systems, using refrigerated trucks to bring in fresh produce from the farms of Kenya to the cities are part of the solution. In fact, their are many excellent solutions for every specific problem. So why so little forward progress or so it seems?
The fact that you seem to ignore, and I could be wrong, is countries where poverty and disease seem everywhere present are nothing less than giant Gulags where the military mainly keep everyone in a constant state of terror, ill health and borderline starvation. How about a Buddhist army of the faithful who will go and kick some ass? We could first overthrow these despotic regimes; then the NGOs could go in and give the proper aid as they are well trained to do. Well, we tried that in Iraq and Afghanistan. It hasn't worked all that well. Too many innocents have been killed as a result of American compassion.
In the meantime, let's first radically change our own minds that created this mess. The power of a transformed mind is far greater than you can imagine. Spirit is intolerant of cruelty and suffering, but we cannot unleash such a spiritual force by practicing materialism and wallowing in hedonism—trying to destroy spirit. Things will only become worse.
The real danger we face right now is that we are actually paving a road to hell with good intentions—I mean very good and noble intentions. While I applaud your good intentions, I have seen too many roads all leading to hell because the minds that determine the direction and the means are psychopathic (psychopathy as the driving force behind present day macro-social evil is extensively addressed in Andrew M. Lobaczewski's book, Political Ponerology).
My only interest is in spreading love and spreading it in such a manner that it proliferates, which usually requires some sort of philosophy or set of ideas to base loving actions upon. I have never seen love fail, and I don't think it is possible to fail, but many times actions are conducted in the guise of 'love' which lead to terrible outcomes, but this is not an issue with love, but the reality that the guise was not love.
As for living in certain 'ages'. I've read allsorts of different cultural views of what 'age' we are in and what it means. Hindu ages, Mayan ages, Buddhist ages etc. I'm sure there is evidence for them all should we seek that evidence, but, for me, it is a very flimsy premise to base our actions upon. I have done my best to live my life with love for quite a few years now and it has only ever brought wonderful results. I don't see how it is likely to lead anywhere but to good... I might be wrong, but the awful actions orchestrated by so called psychopaths have nothing to do with love, and their existence does not negate the actual reality of love, it just means that love has a powerful opposition at present, which is evidently true on this planet, but to me that is only more reason for the truly loving souls to step out and shine in whatever way their heart sees fit.
Corporations (and psychopaths?) want you to love them and will treat you very well if you buy their goods and services.
BTW, one of the great books on psychopathy is still Dr. Hervey Cleckley's book, The Mask of Sanity.
Here's a TED talk that might interest you:
http://www.ted.com/talks/joan_halifax.html
We must be careful in our use of the term psychopath however, and be mindful of the fact that it isn't a term recognized by the DSM. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy#DSM_and_ICD
I just wanted to bring that up because we have lots of preconceived notions about what psychopathy truly is due to the media.
You were a trauma victim! BPD is very manipulative and an emotional roller coaster for all involved. It can be very traumatic for the people close to the sufferer, particularly those who they get involved with romantically. It's just the nature of the disorder.
But yes, most people do get better with age.
It's an interesting issue, with both "nature" and "nurture" being factors, and often the presence of PTSD. It's too complex to talk about here, but it boils down to neurophysiology and maladaptive coping skills, both of which can be overcome.
I am aware of the problem and so is Dr. Robert Hare. There is some controversy over the difference between a sociopath and psychopath. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy
I think it is very easy to fake love and kindness. Movie actors do it quite well—they get awards for it. Believe it or not one needs to be trained in proper therapeutic communication in which there are five levels of empathic response. In other words, we ain't naturally kind. Yes, our intentions in hind sight may seem good, but what we said to this other person may almost be cruel.
I agree with your points about the Pope. The Roman Catholic Church embraced the old Imperium Romanum; even some of its cruelty and zeal for conquest. At this point, I will only say that macrosocial evil is alive and well in the West which comes by way of psychopathy; which has been around for a long time.
Before you shine your love on humanity be advised that love does not actually conquer all. Sadly, love, at least in the West, has not succeeded in overcoming the things which cause us to hate.
Since the discovery of neuro plasticity (the capacity for the brain to change over time) outlook for remission has become much more positive. Aside from that, as manipulative as BPDs may be, it seems unlikely that any results of study are flawed because of the use of diagnostic imaging tools which can't be manipulated.
It's also speculated that simple diagnosis and awareness of the disorder itself reduce symptoms.
I'm interested in it because it affected my life in a similar way to you. I'm also just generally interested in mental health, psychological wellness as well as its underlying neurophysiology. I would have been a doctor but I'm just not quite smart enough
If life is but a game and if we are all one and born of the same spirit then maybe this is the divine purpose of their existence... to provide a catalyst for growth. Maybe at soul level they agreed to come here to play that role - to suffer and express their pain to prompt in others their love and compassion. If that is so, then what a glorious gesture of love it is to enter this realm and play the 'bad guy' to allow the good guys to shine even brighter, knowing that at our truest core that we are all equal and divine and that our lives here are merely characters on the stage of life. Who knows if there is any truth in that, but to me, in such circumstances, if you can adopt a belief system that enables love to come from such horror then that is the wisest move we can make.