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Buddhism And Meditation: Why Most Buddhists In The World Don't Meditate!
One day out of every week for a random sitting session isn't really going to give much benefit.
It's like deciding to get fit and then not doing any physical exercise.
What benefit?
I'm going to play the devil's advocate here a bit. There are a million monks and hardcore Zen meditators out there who spend a good part of their lives sitting on the floor gazing at their belly button. As far as I can see, the only result is, they've gotten really, really good at sitting on the floor gazing at their belly button.
I don't think all the benefits are observable by just looking at someone else, unless you are also an actual mind reader. For one example, if the meditation practice has caused someone to overcome all fear of death, you really aren't going to be able to notice that unless you actually tried to kill them, or were able to observe them facing actual death. Even then, it may not be noticeable. There are plenty of benefits that really aren't all that noticeable, unless they are in your own mind. Because you can not see into another persons mind. You can't always see how that other person's mind and perceptions have changed because of it. It's quite possible that it's been dramatically changed, without many external changes. So if you look at them, it appears as if nothing much has changed, but it has.
@Cinnorjer So why meditate? What are you trying to do that is worth all that wasted time? Convince me I shouldn't be better off doing something constructive with my time like read a book.
People will have different motivations ( and benefits ) for doing meditation practice. I have a great curiosity to find out how things really are, and for me meditation is a good way of exploring, also it feels helpful in a general way. Anyway, it's not for me to convince you, maybe you would be better off reading a book.
One person may formally sit for hours a day, and one person may simply calm their mind and contemplate for a few minutes - 15 times a day. Who's to say what will and won't work for them?
Yes, of course, though it does also depend on what people are trying to achieve. Are you saying that establishing a regular meditation practice isn't a good thing for the average Buddhist?
How about this to get you started on, "Why meditate?"
The best definition of meditation I've heard is: Meditation is a conscious effort to change how your mind works.
If what you want from Buddhism is to accumulate some merit, find a few moral rules to guide your life, or explore a profound philosophical statement about the nature of reality, then you don't need meditation.
Meditation is you sitting down and making a conscious effort to change how your mind works, how it handles thoughts and emotions and desires. Beyond that, there are a thousand techniques and tricks that have been used and passed down from the Masters who struggled to do the same thing. We spend a lot of time comparing and arguing which ones are more effective, but what's important is that you sit down and pay attention to how your mind actually works. Only then can you hope to change old mental habits.
Can anyone come up with a better or more compelling explanation to why we meditate?
Most of what Westerners consider to be meditation is more often a form of relaxation; of bringing down the stress levels. By such meditation, a certain level of comfort is reached. The problem with this approach is that it misses the real purpose of meditation which is a means of taking us beyond the world of samsara (this includes our psycho-phsical body) where lies the absolute.
I'm getting a bit tired of explaining this again and again, I'm not judging or critisizing people. So if you can't see my posts as a sincere intention to help instead, may I ask you to please stop responding in this way? Or otherwise I will from now on. I hope you understand.
Sabre, it seems sometimes as if you think that when you explain your views admittedly "again and again", that you will suddenly change people's minds. No matter how sincere you are, repeating the same logic over and over doesn't make the logic any different.
Yes, so much is clear. So let's just leave this issue of whether I'm judgemental or not. It's ok, apparently some people just can't believe I'm coming from a position of kindness and respect and that I really wish the whole world could benefit from meditation at least just as much as I did so far.
I regret that, but I believe in the possibility of people to detach their approaches to Buddhism from their own person, so I'll keep posting for those who think my posts are helpful and insightful. Feel free to ignore them if you think they aren't.
Likewise, from now on I'll ignore all comments that talk about the way or intention of what I have to say instead of what I actually have to say. Please know that that's not out of disrespect, but just because I don't feel like it.
Here is a video that inspired me very much. It explains the benefits of meditation (mainly compassion meditation) both from experience and a scientific point of view:
Generally most Buddhists do not meditate for a long time in each session so they have to meditate when not on a cushion by carrying the appropriate subject-mind with them into their daily life. This is the best way to make the most of your meditation time
@PedanticPorpoise, Isn't how our mind works and our perceptions the same thing?
Good question - it depends what is meant by "how our mind works."
That's an interesting question. After all, the heart of zen is comprehending that Buddha Nature is our ordinary, everyday mind. No matter how long you sit or how deeply you meditate, the mind that gets up from the zafu is the same mind that sat down.
Once again, to me it boils down to emptiness of the skandhas. Change the skandhas and you change what you are. With disease or physical damage you can change the "form" skandha, the brain, and completely and permanently change who you are. With drugs you can do it temporarily. Our experience and memories have a profound effect on who we are. Just ask any soldier suffering from PDST.
So I would say, the change includes our perceptions, but goes deeper than that.
No matter how long you sit or how deeply you meditate, the mind that gets up from the zafu is the same mind that sat down.
I don't think that is the case because there is a difference between a mind that is filled with ignorance compared to one that isn't. So if meditation removes ignorance from your mind, you get up with a very different mind than the one you sat down with.
No matter how long you sit or how deeply you meditate, the mind that gets up from the zafu is the same mind that sat down.
I don't think that is the case because there is a difference between a mind that is filled with ignorance compared to one that isn't. So if meditation removes ignorance from your mind, you get up with a very different mind than the one you sat down with.
I wouldn't bother meditating if my mind didn't change.
@Sabre, Ah, but if we don't have a definition (or some idea) of what it "is" to begin with, how can we say it exists or doesn't exist? I think the argument just goes round and round in circles. The Zen master asks you to present your mind, to show it to him, for the very purpose that it's not something that exists independently... it's empty of self.
The "mind" in Buddhism isn't some separate thing, but is a label attached to four of the five aggregates, which are themselves descriptive of dependently arisen phenomena that are ownerless, transient and unsatisfactory. Hard to get a grasp on something that can't be grasped.
And really then because the four aggregates are not separate from the five, this constitutes the greater "Mind" also called Emptiness. It's all one flowing interdependent reality that has no division whatsoever.
All of the meditation, all of the koans... it's all to reveal this selfless ungraspable Mind.
If you set out to prove something, you most likely will. If you set out to disprove something, you will most likely do that, too. If you set out to just observe something, then there is no telling what you will prove.
That's what meditation means to me. I drop my agendas and I just observe. It's the daily practice of letting go. Some people fear this. I know I do. But facing fear disarms it. And then you see that everything is exactly how it's supposed to be.
I think that is a problem, a lot of Buddhists probably haven't had proper instruction, so they don't know what to do or haven't yet done it right and have gotten frustrated. If they're not comfortable with their own ability to meditate correctly, they'll probably just skip meditation entirely.
I mean it shouldn't really be an issue of time. If you can find 5 minutes, you can meditate for 5 minutes... but if you don't have a meditation technique down correctly, that'd be a waste of time.
I think that is a problem, a lot of Buddhists probably haven't had proper instruction, so they don't know what to do or haven't yet done it right and have gotten frustrated. If they're not comfortable with their own ability to meditate correctly, they'll probably just skip meditation entirely.
I think that's one problem, another problem is the many different ways that meditation is taught, which can be confusing.
Generally most Buddhists do not meditate for a long time in each session so they have to meditate when not on a cushion by carrying the appropriate subject-mind with them into their daily life. This is the best way to make the most of your meditation time
Hi caz,
rather than looking for proper instruction or the true way, being able to carry on the experience into our daily lives is what it is about, for me anyway.
Comments
I'm going to play the devil's advocate here a bit. There are a million monks and hardcore Zen meditators out there who spend a good part of their lives sitting on the floor gazing at their belly button. As far as I can see, the only result is, they've gotten really, really good at sitting on the floor gazing at their belly button.
I don't think all the benefits are observable by just looking at someone else, unless you are also an actual mind reader. For one example, if the meditation practice has caused someone to overcome all fear of death, you really aren't going to be able to notice that unless you actually tried to kill them, or were able to observe them facing actual death. Even then, it may not be noticeable. There are plenty of benefits that really aren't all that noticeable, unless they are in your own mind. Because you can not see into another persons mind. You can't always see how that other person's mind and perceptions have changed because of it. It's quite possible that it's been dramatically changed, without many external changes. So if you look at them, it appears as if nothing much has changed, but it has.
Anyway, it's not for me to convince you, maybe you would be better off reading a book.
The best definition of meditation I've heard is: Meditation is a conscious effort to change how your mind works.
If what you want from Buddhism is to accumulate some merit, find a few moral rules to guide your life, or explore a profound philosophical statement about the nature of reality, then you don't need meditation.
Meditation is you sitting down and making a conscious effort to change how your mind works, how it handles thoughts and emotions and desires. Beyond that, there are a thousand techniques and tricks that have been used and passed down from the Masters who struggled to do the same thing. We spend a lot of time comparing and arguing which ones are more effective, but what's important is that you sit down and pay attention to how your mind actually works. Only then can you hope to change old mental habits.
Can anyone come up with a better or more compelling explanation to why we meditate?
I regret that, but I believe in the possibility of people to detach their approaches to Buddhism from their own person, so I'll keep posting for those who think my posts are helpful and insightful. Feel free to ignore them if you think they aren't.
Likewise, from now on I'll ignore all comments that talk about the way or intention of what I have to say instead of what I actually have to say. Please know that that's not out of disrespect, but just because I don't feel like it.
I hope we can go on in a fruitful exchange.
With kindness,
Sabre
That's an interesting question. After all, the heart of zen is comprehending that Buddha Nature is our ordinary, everyday mind. No matter how long you sit or how deeply you meditate, the mind that gets up from the zafu is the same mind that sat down.
Once again, to me it boils down to emptiness of the skandhas. Change the skandhas and you change what you are. With disease or physical damage you can change the "form" skandha, the brain, and completely and permanently change who you are. With drugs you can do it temporarily. Our experience and memories have a profound effect on who we are. Just ask any soldier suffering from PDST.
So I would say, the change includes our perceptions, but goes deeper than that.
But he was a smarta$$. Unlike me. I swear. Heh.
The "mind" in Buddhism isn't some separate thing, but is a label attached to four of the five aggregates, which are themselves descriptive of dependently arisen phenomena that are ownerless, transient and unsatisfactory. Hard to get a grasp on something that can't be grasped.
And really then because the four aggregates are not separate from the five, this constitutes the greater "Mind" also called Emptiness. It's all one flowing interdependent reality that has no division whatsoever.
All of the meditation, all of the koans... it's all to reveal this selfless ungraspable Mind.
That's what meditation means to me. I drop my agendas and I just observe. It's the daily practice of letting go. Some people fear this. I know I do. But facing fear disarms it. And then you see that everything is exactly how it's supposed to be.
No snowflake falls in an inapropriate place.
I mean it shouldn't really be an issue of time. If you can find 5 minutes, you can meditate for 5 minutes... but if you don't have a meditation technique down correctly, that'd be a waste of time.
rather than looking for proper instruction or the true way, being able to carry on the experience into our daily lives is what it is about, for me anyway.