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Why do we (USA) have so many prisoners?
jll
Veteran
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate
US has the highest number of per capita prisoners. why?
US has the highest number of per capita prisoners. why?
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Dukkha is good for the economy but bad for people.
In the main it's the mandatory, long sentences and less judicial discretion both in sentencnig and parole / release that keeps more people in prison in the US.
More shocking still are the statistics on minorities in prison.
How to counter this? simple, don't listen to the simple;don't permit only their voice beomg heard! Go out and create change. As long as no one counters the prevalent belief of "putting them in jail and throw away the key" or my favorite "when 'I" was this age I worked ten hour day's" ; we're only going to have an ever worse nation.
I have until June 13, for retirment; hopefully I'll make it.
1. Rather than taking the time and money to fix social issues, it is easier to lock people away. Criminalize a behavior to lock up the people that do it out of our society. On a more conspiracy note, criminalize your opponent's (political, socio-economical, etc) behavior and then lock your opponents up.
2. A higher level of privatization of the prison system, means that the more people in jail the more money there is to be made. (to @charirama 's point)
3. The prison system is an environment that encourages (if not forces through threat of violence) its inhabitant to become like those in prison. This increases the likelihood that they will return.
4. There are very few truly effective re-assimilation programs. Thus people fall back into their old habits and are more likely to return to prison.
5. Drugs. Drugs are mainly used to self-medicate and/or related to addiction. Locking people up for drug offenses is misguided and a very costly (socially and economically) mistake to society. We take people who need help and put them in an environment that encourages them to become (more) violent.
There are probably many other reasons... but these are what I have found in my research. Different prison systems are different, but in general this tends to be the case. My partner used to write letters to prisoners all over the country and gained an incredible amount of insight. This led me to want to understand why our prison system was so broken. IMHO, prison is a cruel and unusual punishment (do some research on locking people up, it used to be considered a form of torture). The people involved in the penal system KNOW that prisoners are subject to violence, rape, death, etc: locking people away knowing this occurs is cruel and unusual. There will never be a perfect system, and some people may never be "fit" for society; however, this doesn't mean they should EVER be treated them as are.
When you look at the stats, for federal prison, about 50% of the people there, are there for drug offenses. In state prisons, 20% of them are drug offenses. A lot of those people need help, not punishment (overall not just those in for drug crimes) but as a society we are more interested in hiding the "riff raff" than helping them. Of course, some of that comes down to people wanting the help, and wanting to change. If they don't want it no amount of making them change will help.
The answer is, it's a very complex answer. The war between the haves and the havenots affects our prison population greatly. In addition to the things everyone else has said, of course.
@Seeker242 mentions the drug war (as he puts it "the failed drug war" and getting drug addicts help and/or treatment, rather than just sending them to jail. Sounds good on the surface. But, you have to remember that this is somewhat of a democracy, and the society doesn't seem willing to vote funds for that...particularly after some rather notorious failures in such programs. For example, New York State's methadone program of many years ago. And --and I know this from experience based on what happened to a number of my students -- that many first (and even more) offenses are virtually ignored in terms of any jail time, and that in many states early offenders are provided with counseling or ordered to participate in help programs...at their expense...not the general public's expense.
@JohnG hit the nail on the head. If anyone really wants to change the criminal justice system in the U.S., then you've got to get directly involved and begin a concrete political change going. Who of you here are doing that?
In my opinion, drug use should be treated as a health issue rather than a criminal one. For one, prohibition exacerbates the problem by creating a black market that generates obscene profits for those involved in the production, transportation, and sale of these 'illegal' substances. We've seen it with alcohol in the 1920s; and drugs are no different. In addition, decriminalization policies elsewhere have shown positive results. In Portugal, for example, their decriminalization policy has lead to a dramatic drop in street drug related deaths from overdoses, as well as in the rate of new HIV infections from sharing dirty needles. Instead of going to jail, these people "are going to treatment centers and they're learning how to control their drug usage or getting off drugs entirely."
The evidence is clear, in my opinion: the war on drugs is bullshit. As a recent report from the Global Commission on Drug Policy concludes:
I don't see anything wrong with discussing things, even if you refer to it as complaining. When people discuss, it's what brings problems to the forefront and allows people to consider options when they are voting.
It does mean you're catching and segregating more criminals.
At first glance this appears wholly desirable - less and less so the more one considers its facets...
I'm a pretty honest guy, and here in the States wouldn't think of bribery. But when in Thailand when I was out driving, I always had a little Thai cash stashed obviously in my passport pouch in case I ever got stopped for a traffic violation, the implication being obvious. Although, you don't even have to be that obvious about it, because you can simply "play dumb" and say to the officer, "Can I just pay the fine to you instead of going into the office?" And they will always say yes. of course. And everyone knows it.
And that's just on the lowest level of traffic offense.
Things like back in the early 1940s, a black kid could not join the cub scouts because he as black, he could not join any productive movement of any sort because he was black. So what became of this? The black panthers. What became of that? Police racists and a lot of rioting, hatred and turmoil. Then what became of that? The crips and the bloods. It is said that 1 in 4 black people in the US will spend some time in prison in that documentary.
Although to be honest, I never heard any gang members say such things.
Just adding to the perspective.
Concerning the prison systems, there are states that have done just this; they've privatized their corrections system, and with great disaster, Arizona being just one of the states. Poor officer pay, no incentive outside a pay check has led prisons to actually go beyond the stories of devils island! One issue was several years back where a riot in an Arizona prison went off; the guards walked away from their posts. And now many states want to follow this lead.
Prison life in many insatances is a meaningless adventure. Overcrowding, and the "law and order" citizenry has destroyed any vestigas of correction; and with over crowding, our courts are sending people to their actual families! Currently we have several generations doing time in the same prison. The only people who fear prison are child abusers.
Assimilations programs were hit on the budgets; and lost. Again being taken up by private corporations.
It seems an ever loosing circle doesn't it?
Just adding to the perspective.
And I think that's a fair comment.
But gang members I have known have quite a different story about why they are in a gang.
I find the first one very interesting because it fits right into our current political contest. Conservatives often derided "social engineering", and then earlier this year one conservative pointed out that Ryan's budget is social engineering on the opposite end of the spectrum. When you talk about "intervening in society itself", aren't you talking about "social engineering". And, as a society, do we tend to like social engineering that matches our beliefs, but dislike social engineering when it matches the beliefs of others?
I can understand why the States want to turn over prisons to private enterprise...the exact same reason they have turned out road constructions and other infrastructure to private enterprise -- then the State is not paying a lifetime of health care and retirement benefits for each employee...which is the way it used to be, and one reason States are having so much of a budget crunch now.
Leon Bing wrote a book called "Do or Die" that is a fantastic telling of gang life in LA. Also, gang life varies from city to city. We have kids who claim to be in gangs here. Not quite the same. Gangs in Minneapolis are not the same as gangs in LA which are not the same as Chicago or Dallas.
Generally speaking, prisons in the US are not rehabilitative, they're punitive. So again, there's no great incentive to rehabilitate prisoners with the goal of freeing them. Not a very compassionate system.
By commodifying everything it also means that all goods and services are being held for ransom. Many people cannot afford to pay the ransom because of circumstance and for some of them, desperation sets in.
The system relies on people buying things so it fosters discontent and craving. That can lead to jealousy and resentment and, in some cases, criminal activity.
The American Dream promises that happiness can be the result of just having lots of money so some people rob banks or come up with other elaborate (and sometimes not so elaborate) schemes that land them in jail.
From Dakini's post above
Here is an interesting video about the education system, the prison system and the U.S. economy.
It's all connected, but the prison talk starts at 4:00 minutes.
As for the idea that drugs and addiction fuel much of the fodder for the "prison industry" , perhaps it does but I fear the legalization of all drugs ( from Valium to heroin) would be more deleterious to society than the laws we have in place . Marijuana by the way is essentially legal in most places in the USA and is a non issue.
Most of the production in these prisons , besides self sustaining industries such as laundry and farming, is military and law enforcement related (bullet proof vests and the like). How about this "modest proposal": clear the prisons on all non violent drug offenders, legalize ALL drugs making pharmacists obsolete except as consumer advisors,then put the remaining prisoners in the business of producing crack cocaine and and Ice at cheap prices for the customers so inclined to enjoy such pursuits. Then we can use the rest of the extra prison budget on drug addiction therapy and low and behold, a new "industry" is born!
I know, studies have shown that legalizing drugs does not increase the number of addicts so the therapy industry will need to help create addicts so they can grow this fledging industry.
No, the new therapy industry would never do such a thing. Therapist would wok hard to cure all the addicts then , by acclamation as a group, disappear.
So other than talk, talk, talk, what are you doing or going to do about it?
I have had teachers in the school where I was principal who volunteered to teach to help prisoners earn GEDs. There are any number of advocacy groups for prisoners that vary from the local level to the national level. There are people who volunteer to visit prisoners they don't even know. Other people who volunteer to help the families of people in prison. There are advocacy groups that lobby legislatures to improve the lives of prisoners or change laws or any number of other approaches. There are people who volunteer as counselors and advocates for people who are "in the cycle" and will likely end up in prison. There are volunteers who work with at-risk youth who might turn to gangs. I could go on and on. There are plenty of opportunities for those who are truly concerned about the issue.
And this goes back to discussions we have had here on the forum in the past about Buddhist compassion. My own personal belief is that having compassion isn't someone saying (or thinking), "Aw, isn't that too bad", but rather someone who actually does something about the issue they are concerned about.
Should this stop us from speaking about these things to raise awareness?
I've in the past written letters to prisoners. I have a family member who is in prison who I communicate with often. However, I don't live anywhere near an area where there is a prison, nor in a population where there are advocacy groups or anything else of the sort. I can't just bring my kids with to drive 120 miles to visit someone in prison. There are unlimited ways to be compassionate, overall, in life. It's not as if it doesn't "count" if you are compassionate in whatever ways you can be, yet cannot immediately get involved in true action in other causes. Sometimes all you CAN do is vote and write letters, and it's better than doing nothing.
No. You cannot actively work to alleviate suffering in all the settings that you see. I was a teacher and then school administrator. I spent my time concentrating on special ed, minority (including some gang-interested), and English-As-Second-Language students, even though the focus of my school was gifted/talented students. In other areas of concern that were not school-related, I gave donations to a number of organizations. Those were my personal interests.
But when you have people who speak so passionately about this thread's topic, I would think that at least a few might actually do something concrete, whether it be giving time or simply writing a check.
Seriously, is it something we can all join you in?