Britishisms and America

Kangaroo

British words and phrases that are becoming popular in the US.
I know you'll appreciate this @Federica

http://news.yahoo.com/britishisms-creeping-american-english-183652134.html

federica

I'm actually giving Obama elocution lessons.
he's very optimistic.....

It's curious, that the article distinguishes between the different attitudes...
The British believe adopting Americanisms is dumbing down the language.
Americans seem to think that adopting "British-isms" might be an improvement, or aren't fussed either way.
I would encourage you all, if you can, to read Bill Bryson's "Mother tongue."
It's a fascinating examination of just why English is the universal language, and a global connect.

Congratulations, America. Welcome to civilisation.

ThailandTom

I was having a discussion with a Swiss guy yesterday in School about the English language. It is used to teach Thai, the phonetics of English I mean. And we were discussing how in English often words are not written how they sound, Spanish however would be a better way to teach Thai as the language is written how it sounds when you speak it. But of course, English is the universal language know, the worlds second language, so it makes sense to teach a language an Asian language to westerners in English.

PrairieGhost

What I dislike is the automatic spellcheck on the internet which marks my British spelling as incorrect, even though British spelling is standard English in English speaking countries apart from the USA.

p.s. is there a button that changes it?

PrairieGhost

There is!

What on earth am I going to moan about now?

ThailandTom

I am with you PrairieGhost, you can change it though on some machine I am sure. owel, America will continue to try and rule the world in every way possible until it eventually crumbles, sorry to be blunt, again.

DairyLama

federica said:

The British believe adopting Americanisms is dumbing down the language.

Yes, and all that "high-fiving" is very worrying too. What's wrong with a good hand-shake?

ThailandTom

PedanticPorpoise said:

federica said:

The British believe adopting Americanisms is dumbing down the language.

Yes, and all that "high-fiving" is very worrying too. What's wrong with a good hand-shake?

Or the contiental kiss on the cheek? I heard that in Tazmania they lick each others eyeball as a greeting.

Beej

I know Harry Potter wants to take credit for bringing the word "ginger" to America, but that was SOUTH PARK. Trey and Matt probably did get it from Harry Potter, but they are the ones who made it popular. In a very sadistic way. hehehe. Once again, Yahoo is pretty dumb.

Kangaroo

I spent much of my youth in Canada and my Grandmother was English. I was thankfully surrounded by (what I consider) proper English. I remember in grade school being red penned for spelling color colour and neighbor neighbour. I still try to find excuses to use cheque instead of check and I love confusing my fellow Americans with the pronunciation of aluminum.

karasti

for anyone else, on most browsers (and computers, and FB, etc) somewhere in options or settings you should be able to change it to American or European English. Or as I prefer, Pirate English.

ThailandTom

karasti said:

for anyone else, on most browsers (and computers, and FB, etc) somewhere in options or settings you should be able to change it to American or European English. Or as I prefer, Pirate English.

Pirate English, that would be Somerset and Bristol then (I am sure only Brits will know what I am on about lol)

federica

Oooh-aaargh....

Tosh

I don't ruddy believe this:

In 1776, whether you were declaring America independent from the crown or swearing your loyalty to King George III, your pronunciation would have been much the same. At that time, American and British accents hadn't yet diverged. What's surprising, though, is that Hollywood costume dramas get it all wrong: The Patriots and the Redcoats spoke with accents that were much closer to the contemporary American accent than to the Queen's English.

http://www.lifeslittlemysteries.com/2047-americans-brits-accents.html

There's no way my ancestors sounded like septic tanks; I'm a Geordie!!!

RebeccaS

My husband has picked up some of my britishisms and they sound absolutely hilarious in his accent. Sometimes he says knackered and it just cracks me up

Tosh

During Gulf War One I had a big black Brummie sergeant as my boss. When we met a whole bunch of black American soldiers, they found my boss - a black man with a British accent - absolutely hilarious.

That made me smile.

federica

I had a real mind-phukk once.... I used to be a dental receptionist. One day, the door opens, and in comes this wonderful spectacle of a beautiful Indian woman, dressed in the most glorious pale turquoise sari, with a gossamer veil, hair beautifully and immaculately arranged, ornate jewellery, exquisite make-up, (She's going to her niece's wedding) and asks me hurriedly, to book an appointment....In one of the broadest Scottish accents I had ever heard.

ThailandTom

There is a Chinese professional snooker player called Phuu who was brought up in Scotland, I did not know for maybe 2 years until I heard him in an interview, that was a shock lol.

karasti

lol federica that used to happen to my husband. He used to do tech support for a UK company (well a US company with stores in the UK) and he'd have to travel there to meet people and was continually confused by Somalians, Indians and others with very British or Scottish accents. He spoke with them by phone and sometimes their accents were so think he couldn't understand them at all.

Tosh

My mother is Japanese and has lived in Newcastle for over 40 years. I've heard her say "Whey-aye-man", I kid you not.

Dakini

Has anyone noticed that more and more Americans--this seems to be the case mainly with the younger generations--are using glottal stops, instead of consonants in the middle of words? Especially in lieu of "t", and certain other consonants or consonant clusters. Like instead of "matter", they'd say "ma'-er". American English has always used glottal stops instead of consonants, but only rarely, only with certain words. It's becoming much more common now, though, and it reminds me of some of those Brit dialects.

ThailandTom

Dakini said:

Has anyone noticed that more and more Americans--this seems to be the case mainly with the younger generations--are using glottal stops, instead of consonants in the middle of words? Especially in lieu of "t", and certain other consonants or consonant clusters. Like instead of "matter", they'd say "ma'-er". American English has always used glottal stops instead of consonants, but only rarely, only with certain words. It's becoming much more common now, though, and it reminds me of some of those Brit dialects.

The heavy, thick south western English accent is like that. People may say things like "It dun ma-err, wha you talking abou" lol. I am glad that I don't have such an accent as I lived in and around Bath for a while where they seem to have escaped the South Western way of talking some how.

karasti

We are guilty of that even, lol. "I don't know" has pretty much turned into "I 'unno." Lazy talking.

zombiegirl

Dakini said:

Has anyone noticed that more and more Americans--this seems to be the case mainly with the younger generations--are using glottal stops, instead of consonants in the middle of words? Especially in lieu of "t", and certain other consonants or consonant clusters. Like instead of "matter", they'd say "ma'-er". American English has always used glottal stops instead of consonants, but only rarely, only with certain words. It's becoming much more common now, though, and it reminds me of some of those Brit dialects.

Could just be a transplant from some of the other regions. We always talk like that in Michigan. The lazy Michigan tongue is infiltrating the US! Excellent. Button=buh'ohn, kitten=kih'in, mitten=mih'in. It's weird when you think about it and I actually never noticed it until someone pointed it out. Really though, just give us a reason to drop a pronunciation and we'll do it. My favorite is what everyone else calls the DMV, we say, "Secretary of State" except that we don't even say that... it's pronounced "Secrateriuhstate" No breaks.

All I can really say about the British accent is that the swear words sound ridiculous, but adorable when coming out of the mouth of a cute girl.

federica

Dakini said:

Has anyone noticed that more and more Americans--this seems to be the case mainly with the younger generations--are using glottal stops, instead of consonants in the middle of words? Especially in lieu of "t", and certain other consonants or consonant clusters. Like instead of "matter", they'd say "ma'-er". American English has always used glottal stops instead of consonants, but only rarely, only with certain words. It's becoming much more common now, though, and it reminds me of some of those Brit dialects.

That's not dialect - it's not even an accent. it's just poor English.
A Dialect is a particular transformation and use of language which does not necessarily adhere to the basic national language. Italy is chock-a-block with them, because remember that Italian - as a distinct language - was only unified in 1911.
The Italian generally and widely used, id Florentine Italian.

An accent is prevalent to the area in which you live, and Geordies, Mancunians and Yorkies all have their own distinct yet emphatic accents.

People who persistently use glottal stops when there should be a letter - are merely being lazy.
Many Londoners do, and claim that it's part of their Cockney banter.
A true cockney, however, was born, and lives, within the sound of Bow Bells.
Not every Londoner has the right to call themselves 'a cockney'.

The word 'cockney' was once a perjorative term, meaning ignorant, badly-read, poorly-travelled... but it's now a label proudly worn by a dangerously low number of people, and it's reducing by the decade.
The Cockneys have their own 'monarchs' -a couple who fit the bill and know the local, London Lore.... Every London Borough has them...

PrairieGhost

federica:

A true cockney, however, was born, and lives, within the sound of Bow Bells.

I used to live with a cockney with a very cool sounding stutter that actually lent gravitas to his speech. When I asked him where he was from he said

'b-b-b- bawn wivin der saaand ah b-b-b- bow bells, mate'

sndymorn

Proper English is spoken by the Queen's grandchildren whom neither she nor their own parents often see. They teach this "Queens" English in private schools.

These children, before they go into the world and learn corruptions, are the only true English speakers in the world.

tmottes

Wikipedia:

Unlike the case of other standard languages, however, there is no official or central regulating body defining Standard English.

federica

sndymorn said:

Proper English is spoken by the Queen's grandchildren whom neither she nor their own parents often see. They teach this "Queens" English in private schools.

These children, before they go into the world and learn corruptions, are the only true English speakers in the world.

You are kidding..... right?

:scratch:

zombiegirl

federica said:

Dakini said:

Has anyone noticed that more and more Americans--this seems to be the case mainly with the younger generations--are using glottal stops, instead of consonants in the middle of words? Especially in lieu of "t", and certain other consonants or consonant clusters. Like instead of "matter", they'd say "ma'-er". American English has always used glottal stops instead of consonants, but only rarely, only with certain words. It's becoming much more common now, though, and it reminds me of some of those Brit dialects.

That's not dialect - it's not even an accent. it's just poor English.
A Dialect is a particular transformation and use of language which does not necessarily adhere to the basic national language. Italy is chock-a-block with them, because remember that Italian - as a distinct language - was only unified in 1911.
The Italian generally and widely used, id Florentine Italian.

An accent is prevalent to the area in which you live, and Geordies, Mancunians and Yorkies all have their own distinct yet emphatic accents.

People who persistently use glottal stops when there should be a letter - are merely being lazy.
Many Londoners do, and claim that it's part of their Cockney banter.
A true cockney, however, was born, and lives, within the sound of Bow Bells.
Not every Londoner has the right to call themselves 'a cockney'.

The word 'cockney' was once a perjorative term, meaning ignorant, badly-read, poorly-travelled... but it's now a label proudly worn by a dangerously low number of people, and it's reducing by the decade.
The Cockneys have their own 'monarchs' -a couple who fit the bill and know the local, London Lore.... Every London Borough has them...

That's exactly what they say about ebonics, lol. But that's a touchy subject. It becomes a dialect when an entire region of people speak the same way. You can call it lazy, I call it, "Repetition of what I've always heard others say for my entire life because everyone around here speaks that way."

sndymorn

federica said:

sndymorn said:

Proper English is spoken by the Queen's grandchildren whom neither she nor their own parents often see. They teach this "Queens" English in private schools.

These children, before they go into the world and learn corruptions, are the only true English speakers in the world.

You are kidding..... right?

While I am not serious, that is I don't hold this view, there see many upper class British whom do.
English, at least American English , is forever transforming, adding words and phrases as need of fancy dictates. This is a hallmark of American English and one that I enjoy . Queen's English, at least my impression of it, resists change.
Since the era of instant communication and television ,accents here in the USA have homogenized and it is much harder to tell where people come from just by how they speak.
I wonder if it is the same in England.
Here in the USA, education level may have much to do with the homogenization of accents.

federica

I think it's not so much that it resists change, but there are certain grammatical rules and dicta which people become lazy over. It's not always a question of accent. it's more often a question of correct usage.

Tosh

Have any of you 'Mericans tried a good old English faggot?

I think they're lovely.

Tosh

federica said:

it's more often a question of correct usage.

Correct usage? Which organisation defines 'correct usage' for the English language? I mean we're not the French who have some academy that prevents their language from evolving; we're British and we steal anything that isn't nailed down and works.

DairyLama

sndymorn said:

They teach this "Queens" English in private schools.

Yus, we should all speak proper, like what the Queen does.

federica

Tosh said:

federica said:

it's more often a question of correct usage.

Correct usage? Which organisation defines 'correct usage' for the English language? I mean we're not the French who have some academy that prevents their language from evolving; we're British and we steal anything that isn't nailed down and works.

There is a designated society based in Oxford, called "The Queen's English Society" who are often referred to when questions arise in such issues as lexicography. They are official advisers to the Oxford English Dictionary. While not an officially recognised body, It is a regitered charity, and The Monarch is the 'Silent patron'....
http://queens-english-society.com/index.html

DairyLama

zombiegirl said:

All I can really say about the British accent is that the swear words sound ridiculous, but adorable when coming out of the mouth of a cute girl.

You obviously haven't lived in Essex.

zombiegirl

PedanticPorpoise said:

zombiegirl said:

All I can really say about the British accent is that the swear words sound ridiculous, but adorable when coming out of the mouth of a cute girl.

You obviously haven't lived in Essex.

Lol, I will accept your challenge. Find me an example of the accent and we will see...

It's just occurred to me that you Brits have the same sort of language stuff going on that we do in America. Living in the north for my whole life, it's common to hear people denigrating the southern accent. It's sort of a bad stereotype that people with a southern accent=stupid. But then I spent some time visiting in the south, and they made fun of me so much for my pronunciation and for being a Yank, I realized we all do the same thing, haha. But for the record, although I typically find the southern accent slightly grating, I still find it adorable on a cute girl. And my adorable gay man friend... but we won't get into that.

Kangaroo

Tosh said:

Have any of you 'Mericans tried a good old English faggot?

I think they're lovely.

I gave them up years ago.

Beej

federica said:

I had a real mind-phukk once.... I used to be a dental receptionist. One day, the door opens, and in comes this wonderful spectacle of a beautiful Indian woman, dressed in the most glorious pale turquoise sari, with a gossamer veil, hair beautifully and immaculately arranged, ornate jewellery, exquisite make-up, (She's going to her niece's wedding) and asks me hurriedly, to book an appointment....In one of the broadest Scottish accents I had ever heard.

ummmm... an Indian woman with a Scottish accent? That sounds so hot. :rarr:

I fear I've said too much.

federica

She was in her mid sixties.... if that helps any.

Mountains

That article is full of it. I grew up the child of WASP southern American parentage, and we *always* called the compartment at the back end of the car the "boot". There are only a couple of idioms in the article that I'd truly consider purely Britishisms. The rest are all in more or less widespread use throughout America.

Jeffrey

federica said:

Dakini said:

Has anyone noticed that more and more Americans--this seems to be the case mainly with the younger generations--are using glottal stops, instead of consonants in the middle of words? Especially in lieu of "t", and certain other consonants or consonant clusters. Like instead of "matter", they'd say "ma'-er". American English has always used glottal stops instead of consonants, but only rarely, only with certain words. It's becoming much more common now, though, and it reminds me of some of those Brit dialects.

That's not dialect - it's not even an accent. it's just poor English.
A Dialect is a particular transformation and use of language which does not necessarily adhere to the basic national language. Italy is chock-a-block with them, because remember that Italian - as a distinct language - was only unified in 1911.
The Italian generally and widely used, id Florentine Italian.

An accent is prevalent to the area in which you live, and Geordies, Mancunians and Yorkies all have their own distinct yet emphatic accents.

People who persistently use glottal stops when there should be a letter - are merely being lazy.
Many Londoners do, and claim that it's part of their Cockney banter.
A true cockney, however, was born, and lives, within the sound of Bow Bells.
Not every Londoner has the right to call themselves 'a cockney'.

The word 'cockney' was once a perjorative term, meaning ignorant, badly-read, poorly-travelled... but it's now a label proudly worn by a dangerously low number of people, and it's reducing by the decade.
The Cockneys have their own 'monarchs' -a couple who fit the bill and know the local, London Lore.... Every London Borough has them...

No what she is saying IS a dialect. We also have very nasal 'staaaar' 'caaaar' 'faaar'..

Trust me, it is a dialect. Southeastern Michiganers have another nuance in that they say
bayk for baaaack. I am a western Michigander..

It's not bad english it is just how people talk, as in any dialect.

Sile

With all due respect, there's no such thing, linguistically speaking, as "proper" language. There is simply what is accepted by various shifting powers as prestige language; it's extremely subjective.

Parisian French is, by many of the standards we're talking about here, a lazy, slurred dialect. Out in the country, the French speakers have preserved all the nice, crisp consonant endings; in "standard" French, everything is dropped, and what's worse, all the "n" consonants become a disgusting, lazy nasalized vowel (being pointed--I don't really think it's disgusting).

Pronouncing "Comment allez-vous" as standard French "kɔ̃mɔ̃ ale vu" instead of country French "koment alez vus" is no different than my local African American teenager saying "Ha yaa doin'" instead of "How are you all doing."

The perceived properness of language is purely social; if a language/dialect serves as an accurate communication device, it's a valid language/dialect. The "queen's" English is a complete hybrid mishmash of Norman, Germanic, Greek, Latin, etc., and a rather slurred one at that.

That doesn't mean I don't harbor any opinions/cringing about various dialects--but I do realize it's a socially-conditioned response And I confess to being completely averse to Jar-Jar Binks' dialect, which for some untold reason drives me insane.

federica

Jeffrey said:

No what she is saying IS a dialect. We also have very nasal 'staaaar' 'caaaar' 'faaar'..

Trust me, it is a dialect. Southeastern Michiganers have another nuance in that they say
bayk for baaaack. I am a western Michigander..

It's not bad english it is just how people talk, as in any dialect.

I'm referring specifically to British English, NOT American English....

Insofar as British English would be concerned, missing out letters and replacing them with a glottal stop - is lazy pronunciation, and therefore 'poor' English.

PrairieGhost

Wo u sayin baaat man innit? Nah mayt dialec's s pure pers'nal an aaal dat ting innit, peeples toork da wai dey tork an not nuttin can be dun woteva man. Don get mardeh 'bout it man, Midlans ewe k aksen i goh Londan, Jamaykan, Indyan, Norvan Inglan, Mer'can, pure varitey innit? Wot ewe gan doo, call da feds or sumatt? Wee gorra ruff aksen innit, nevah chane 4 no wan. Peese.

(this is the working class midlands dialect; older white people will sound less Jamaican, older asians and afro-Caribbeans will sound less Northern. Country folks will have less of a London influence than city folks.

Translation: Mardi = bad tempered/moaning (pronounced mardeh). Rough = good/delicious. The feds = the police. Sumatt = something. Pure = complete/very)

andyrobyn

@kangaroo and the others Aussies here would probably be able to tell you how posh us south aussie's sound compared to those born in other states of this big country of ours.

In Adelaide we daaarnce and praaarnce, rather than dance and prance about - lol.

PrairieGhost

Yes, I have an Australian friend who does exactly that. Very expressive accent actually, I like it.

federica

andyrobyn said:

@kangaroo and the others Aussies here would probably be able to tell you how posh us south aussie's sound compared to those born in other states of this big country of ours.

In Adelaide we daaarnce and praaarnce, rather than dance and prance about - lol.

One affectation of the Australian way of speaking is this rise in voice at the end of every sentence... we have a programme which comes over from Australia here..."Nothing to declare". The women customs officers are particularly guilty, and this nasal Australian twang with the squeaky rise at the end of a sentence drives me nuts.
Why do people do that? it's not lingual, it's not grammatical, it's not pronunciation. It's just - weird!

andyrobyn

Weird is such a subjective experience .... Seriously though,I don't know if that it is a feature of an Aussie accent, but then to my ear we don't have an accent at all, how weird is that!?!

federica

No, like I said, it has nothing to do with the accent. Every Australian - has an Australian accent, with regional nuances. (Actually, I see now, I didn't actually mention 'accent' - but no, it's not that.....)
It's this prevalence of raising the voice - at times to squeal level - at the end of a sentence.
Many Australians don't do it. A few men do, but many, many women, do. It's just an odd affectation.....