overcoming judgment

sova

Hi everyone

Just as the discussion title reads, do you guys have any good ideas/advice, links or materials related to overcoming impulsively judging things / ascribing "good" or "bad" as a labeling?

I'll give you an example, what comes to mind when you read the following:

- stubbing your toe
- cutting down a tree
- singing a love song
- experiencing a car crash
- pouring a glass of orange juice
- getting one shoe stuck in the mud and de-shoe'ing yourself midstep
- sending a satellite into space


peace my fellow travelers

karasti

Retrain yourself. I had to do this with my extreme aversion to running outside in less-than-ideal weather...which where I live is like 8 months a year, lol. It does work, actually. Instead of getting caught in my mind chatter of "crap, it's cold and i am supposed to run today. I hate the cold. Great, now I have to put on gloves and a hat, and when I sweat my head itches. I hate the cold." I just told myself cold is just cold. It's not good, it's not bad, it's just cold. And my aversion to it over time did dissipate. That doesn't mean I love to run on a -20F day as much as I do on a 60F day, but it makes it tolerable and I don't talk myself out of running like I used to due to my aversion. It's hard to do with things you enjoy, but still possible. I just tell myself "I'm enjoying this moment. Soon it'll pass, but that's ok, I can enjoy it now and move onto the next moment." I did that this weekend while I was taking in the splendor of our leaf change season. The leaves will very soon be gone,and winter will be on the way. But that's not a good thing, or a bad thing, it just is. I can choose to look at it as a bad thing, or I can choose to recognize it's just another season with a purpose in nature and go about my day. If I hurt myself, obviously I recognize the pain, but I don't get caught up in the emotions of getting angry that I stubbed my toe, sliced my finger, or whatever. I just deal with it if it needs dealing and move on. Don't dwell on anything.

federica

sova said:

Hi everyone

Just as the discussion title reads, do you guys have any good ideas/advice, links or materials related to overcoming impulsively judging things / ascribing "good" or "bad" as a labeling?

I'll give you an example, what comes to mind when you read the following:

- stubbing your toe

Who put that there?!?

- cutting down a tree

It's diseased and dying anyway....

- singing a love song

I can't believe I remember the lyrics from 1973!

- experiencing a car crash

is everyone okay?

- pouring a glass of orange juice

This smells funny... what's the "use by" date.......?

- getting one shoe stuck in the mud and de-shoe'ing yourself midstep

LMAO!! Oh well, I never liked them anyway!!

- sending a satellite into space

Actually - I've never done this... hang on, I'll call NASA and see what the chances are....

BTW: The responses above are quick-fire, impulse answers to quickfire questions. All those things actually happened to me - and all the responses are absolutely what I thought on the matter.

jumbles

A frequent reminder that value judgments are distortions of reality.
"I don't know what this means."

sova

@federica lol I was just waiting for someone to post their first-impulse-replies haha, thanks for the entertainment xD

@karasti I found your reply very insightful! Thank you I think with practice one day I might just master the art of retraining-fu ...

@jumbles you bring up a very valid point. Kinda like the "whether you are aware of it or not, the universe is unfolding just as it should be" -- luckily we have the power of nudging


thank you for your replies so far everyone ^.^

OneLifeForm

You're very bad for judging things.



You're very good for judging things.



Look at everything like that and see the humor in it.

See how ridiculous such labels are. If at first you label your food "very good" then in your mind say "this is very bad" , "this is very good" and laugh.

Then realize that it just is what it is.

Very "negative" things just are what they are in the same sense that very "positive" things are what they are, energy colliding into the moment.

Ooh its good, no wait it's bad, dang, hold up, stop the moment! J@LQKHJRL#RHlsnjFl Argtaggggg I can't label thsi faisst enufgffffaljfsklfnjj

sova

OneLifeForm said:

You're very bad for judging things.



You're very good for judging things.



Look at everything like that and see the humor in it.

See how ridiculous such labels are. If at first you label your food "very good" then in your mind say "this is very bad" , "this is very good" and laugh.

Then realize that it just is what it is.
...

Hahah Thank you for that!

You reminded me of this one time when I was drinking lots of pop [soda?] in my life... I had a can of Sprite on my desk, but I thought that I had a can of Coca Cola on my desk. Without looking at the can I took a sip and it straight-up tasted like Sprite. Honest-to-goodness I tasted Sprite. Then I took another sip a little while later and was like "wait." I looked at the can and it was Coca Cola. What a trip.

kowtaaia

sova said:

Hi everyone

Just as the discussion title reads, do you guys have any good ideas/advice, links or materials related to overcoming impulsively judging things / ascribing "good" or "bad" as a labeling?

Sure. Don't do anything about it. Just observe the fact of it. The desire to do something about it, is born of it. Trying to do something about it, gives it energy, life.

fivebells

sova said:

do you guys have any good ideas/advice, links or materials related to overcoming impulsively judging things / ascribing "good" or "bad" as a labeling?

Judging things as good or bad fades over time with effective meditation practice.

pegembara

There’s a great passage in the Canon where Ven. Sariputta says, “If someone says something really hurtful, tell yourself, ‘Ah, an unpleasant sound has made contact at the ear.’” We usually don’t think in those terms. We think, “Why is that person saying that to me? How outrageous can you get?” We create a narrative that lays more suffering on the mind. The next time someone says something really unpleasant, remind yourself: “An unpleasant sound has made contact at the ear.” That depersonalizes it. Pulls you out of it. Stops you from shooting yourself with arrows.

V. Thanissaro

Reality is a sound is just a sound, that is all. We can make whatever we want out of it.

I_AM_THAT

We interact with this world through our 6 senses. (Seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching, and thinking or thought). With every sense there is potential for judgement, a judgement that triggers an emotion.

In practice, sit down and observe yourself and what judgements and subsequent emotions are created when your senses are triggered. What are your thoughts when a baby is crying, or loud bang, bright light, sour smell, sweet taste? Can you observe without judgement?

To truly be a Buddhist is to be able to observe and interact with this world without judgement. This is what being mindful is. It takes practice, but it can be done.

Can you say the word "fuck" without judgement without emotion. So that if anyone around you that heard it would understand that there is no meaning behind it and it is just a word, just a sound?

vinlyn

I don't agree with the general direction of this thread...but that's just me.

It seems to me that we are supposed to learn to judge things accurately. When we read something from the Dhamma, we make judgments about it -- is it wise, what does it really say, etc.

Buddha talked about the influence on one's life of cultivating wholesome friends and companions. To determine who is wholesome, we must make judgements.

I think what is important in making judgements is seeing things as they really are, and not from a biased eye.

karasti

I don't think that what you said in your last sentence though, is any different from much of what else has been said. It's the same way I understand things with different words. Cold is just cold, only my bias sees cold as bad.

One thing I get caught up in, is even when you are looking at only reality, our judgement aren't always going to be the same because they still come from our perceptions and experience. What seems like a very simple matter of reality to me, another person still comes away with a different opinion for the same reality. How do you get rid of that? I'm not sure it's 100% possible. Take abortion for example, because it's all i can think of off the top of my head. Abortion in reality is simple-the removal of an embryo from a uterus. But what the reality of what that embryo is, differs for everyone, thus the huge debate over abortion, so even though the reality is the same for me as it is for everyone else, what we decide over it is still going to differ, in part because we have to use our beliefs and life experiences to decide what an embryo represents to is. IE: is an embryo life, or is it not? And everyone's answer for that is different, and science can't answer it either.

Vastmind

sova said:

Hi everyone....., do you guys have any good ideas/advice, links or materials related to overcoming impulsively judging things / ascribing "good" or "bad" as a labeling?.......
what comes to mind when you read the following?

- stubbing your toe
- cutting down a tree
- singing a love song
- experiencing a car crash
- pouring a glass of orange juice
- getting one shoe stuck in the mud and de-shoe'ing yourself midstep
- sending a satellite into space


peace my fellow travelers

Good idea/advice?...Buddhism. Seriously.
It teaches us what labeling is,
how to recognize it, and how to change/transcend it.
Overcoming impulses is the name of the game.
Craving. Clinging to craving. We crave/cling to those
impulses and judgements.

I agree with :

If sitting meditation is not your practice right now,
it can be overcome by mindfulness training as well. For example,
As long as you use an adjective, you are VIEWING a judgement
about the situation, right? Good. Bad. Try to recognize when/how
you think these things, and then think about when you
apply these judgments to your deeds/behavior.

The list of questions, im not sure how to tackle, to be honest.
My first 'impulse', hehe, was to give the answers Fede did, my
first thoughts/memories of the same things that happened
to me. But, now, that I think about it...Are you asking how
I label these events? Good or bad? Or how I change the impulse
to think of it as good or bad?

RebeccaS

Judging stuff is fun.

Seriously. It is. Have you ever spent a day just judging the shit out of stuff? It's hilarious, and also makes you realize how often you do it and how little it really does for you.

I'm from the "do it more" school of thought

jumbles

more joy! Objects of consciousness to release.

lobster

In many ways judgement (making value judgements) is a lower form of discrimination (making valid judgements)
When we discriminate between what is good and what is better, we naturally follow the path.

This may lead to a non-discursive mind settling in good time . . .

vinlyn

Don't I recall a passage in the Dhamma where Buddha talks about associating with appropriate people? That would be making value judgements.

how

Welcome to the cheap seats of meditative observations.

Judgementalism is just the fruit of fear.

Just our futile effort to bring control to the chaos around us. It arises with a sense of separation from the universe which makes chaos personally threatening. If you look at those who are not judgemental, you will see folks more at one with existence, more capable of embracing the fluidity of life or in otherwords manifesting acceptance.

The way to deal with tendency's towards judgementalism just requires the fostering of its antidote....making all acceptance more important than ones fear of loss.

Easy to say but life transforming to do.

Wisdom23

this is something i heard of a Christian person but i thought 'what i wonderful way to look at it'. She said not to judge and hate the person but hate the sin for all people are good and it is the devil making them do it. I know this is a little of topic but i still thought it was fdairly relavent.

tmottes

Ambalatthika-rahulovada Sutta: Instructions to Rahula at Mango Stone

"What do you think, Rahula: What is a mirror for?"

"For reflection, sir."

"In the same way, Rahula, bodily actions, verbal actions, & mental actions are to be done with repeated reflection.

"Whenever you want to do a bodily [, verbal, or mental] action, you should reflect on it: 'This bodily [, verbal, or mental] action I want to do — would it lead to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both? Would it be an unskillful bodily [, verbal, and mental] action, with painful consequences, painful results?' If, on reflection, you know that it would lead to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both; it would be an unskillful bodily [, verbal, or mental] action with painful consequences, painful results, then any bodily [, verbal, or mental] action of that sort is absolutely unfit for you to do. But if on reflection you know that it would not cause affliction... it would be a skillful bodily [, verbal, or mental] action with pleasant consequences, pleasant results, then any bodily action of that sort is fit for you to do.

"While you are doing a bodily [, verbal, or mental] action, you should reflect on it: 'This bodily [, verbal, or mental] action I am doing — is it leading to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both? Is it an unskillful bodily [, verbal, or mental] action, with painful consequences, painful results?' If, on reflection, you know that it is leading to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both... you should give it up. But if on reflection you know that it is not... you may continue with it.

"Having done a bodily [or verbal] action, you should reflect on it: 'This bodily [or verbal] action I have done — did it lead to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both? Was it an unskillful bodily [or verbal] action, with painful consequences, painful results?' If, on reflection, you know that it led to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both; it was an unskillful bodily [or verbal] action with painful consequences, painful results, then you should confess it, reveal it, lay it open to the Teacher or to a knowledgeable companion in the holy life. Having confessed it... you should exercise restraint in the future. But if on reflection you know that it did not lead to affliction... it was a skillful bodily [or verbal] action with pleasant consequences, pleasant results, then you should stay mentally refreshed & joyful, training day & night in skillful mental qualities.

"Having done a mental action, you should reflect on it: 'This mental action I have done — did it lead to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both? Was it an unskillful mental action, with painful consequences, painful results?' If, on reflection, you know that it led to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both; it was an unskillful mental action with painful consequences, painful results, then you should feel distressed, ashamed, & disgusted with it. Feeling distressed, ashamed, & disgusted with it, you should exercise restraint in the future. But if on reflection you know that it did not lead to affliction... it was a skillful mental action with pleasant consequences, pleasant results, then you should stay mentally refreshed & joyful, training day & night in skillful mental qualities.

"Rahula, all those brahmans & contemplatives in the course of the past [future and present] who purified their bodily actions, verbal actions, & mental actions, did it through repeated reflection on their bodily actions, verbal actions, & mental actions in just this way.

"Thus, Rahula, you should train yourself: 'I will purify my bodily actions through repeated reflection. I will purify my verbal actions through repeated reflection. I will purify my mental actions through repeated reflection.' That's how you should train yourself."

That is what the Blessed One said. Gratified, Ven. Rahula delighted in the Blessed One's words.