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You must be the change

edited October 2012 in General Banter
You must be the change you wish to see in the world.
-Gandhi

When I come across a racist, for instance, I don't try to lecture him on the importance of anti racism or how wrong racism is. I see that guy as a reminder - a reminder that I should never be as hateful. A religious bigot is a reminder that we must destroy our bigotry within, a rich exploiter is a reminder that we must never become exploiters ourselves. In short, every such instance is a reminder of the things we must change within ourselves. But most of us want to change the world rather than ourselves.
SilePrairieGhostlobster

Comments

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    This is interesting timing for me to read your post. I agree, but it's very difficult when the issue strikes close to home. My state (MN) is voting on a "Marriage is 1 man 1 woman" amendment to our state constitution. We have a heavy gay population and generally vote democratic as a state, but its basically neck and neck right now. Because it's an amendment they need 51% to pass it in the vote, and they do not have that in polls.

    Anyhow, this is an issue very close to me because my best friend, and my sister, are both gay. Because I have posted about it on FB, I've learned that some people I thought I have known a long time, hold what I consider to be disgusting opinions of gay people. Now, I have seen people write well-written arguments for voting yes on the amendment. I disagree entirely, but they can put their view forth without being disrespectful. Some people who have posted on my FB, cannot, and I have struggled with what to do with these people who I have for many years, 20 years sometimes, considered friends and now I find out they believe my loved ones to be lesser people than they are. Not just because of the marriage thing, but based on comments they have made about gay people.

    It honestly makes me extremely angry. I do not try to convince them for the most part, sometimes depending on the person I try to engage them to find out why they believe it's ok to hold others at a lesser level than themselves, but not always. But I find myself wanting to rid my life entirely of people who think and talk like they do. There is no chance to change their minds, but I also can no longer see them the same as I used to because of the words they have said. So I never know what to do about them. I have unfriended people over it, and I don't miss them one bit. But I have no idea where unfriending people on FB that you've known for 20 years falls within Buddhism, lol. I just cannot stay on board with being friends, FB friends or not, with people who talk badly about entire other groups of people, and it makes me very hostile. That is, I feel hostile and angry, but I try really hard to not express it that way when I talk to them.

    Anyhow, sorry to vent in your post, @music, it was just fitting for my current dilemma. I've chosen to put whatever energy I can into the side of the campaign I support, but it does not ease the burden of dealing with these people who I wish didn't even exist, teachers or not.
  • I would think Minnesota would be more tolerant than that... That sounds like more of a thing that would happen down here in Georgia, however, people are so close minded here in Georgia it would probably skip polls and court and go straight to state constitution... Gay marriage is heavily frowned upon here, so is everything else that doesn't fit in to the stereotypical southerner, I suppose as you get more towards Atlanta, it gets better though..
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    For such a 'young' country, Americans are really horrendously behind the times, and ligatured by the invented strictures of Religious fanaticism.

    Marriage as we know it today, has actually very little to do with 'Marriage' as portrayed in Biblical terms. In fact, it is supposed that much written in the Bible on Marriage, was a later addition to conform religiously with current laws of that time - so, much may have been added in, in the 14th century onwards, in order to use"Biblical God-given rulings" which would be in line with the religious thinking of that time - but which in fact would then be turned round to make people believe that such thinking was Biblically-based. Mindful of the fact that less than 1% of the population of that time could actually read or write... Even some members of the nobility were illiterate - which is why they employed secretaries and scribes to put into writing what they expressed verbally....How were they to know whence such rulings came?
    This is why Religion alone cannot dissolve marriage Union. Because primarily it's a union founded on Law, not religion. And It's the Union of 2 people.
    We've managed to deal with it here in the UK. Without too much of a fuss.....
    MaryAnneThailandTomCitta
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    the thing is, like 78% of Minnesotans are ok with saying gay people can have something, they just cannot have marriage. It's too much akin to back in the 50s when we had segregation...separate water fountains for the "colored folk" and all that."Well, you GET water, isn't that good enough? Why do you have to have the same water as me?"

    Some of the arguments are so ridiculous I don't even know where peopel come up with it. The major argument of course is the bible (but let's completely ignore the "love your neighbor as yourself" that came right from Jesus himself.) But another one that I hear often is "If we let get people marry then eventually people will marry their dogs, too, and between dogs and gays, no one will reproduce anymore and society will implode." And yes, they actually believe this. One of my "friends" told me he doesn't hate gay people, but is voting for the amendment to pass (against gay marriage) because he doesn't want his kids to grow up watching men shove their tongues down each other's throats."

    The funny part of that is, he lives in one of the gayest areas in the state, and his kids will be exposed to gay people very early on, if they aren't already, but he just pretends they don't exist and figures gays on tv is a threat. He also told me that if one of his children told him they were gay "they will be lucky if I allow them to be my facebook friend." yet they claim they have nothing against gays.

    I'm tired of talking to my sister, my friends, my neighbors, and hearing how hurt they are by all of this. It's like being bullied your entire life, when you expect it to end in high school. I'd be lying if I said it doesn't make me angry. I feel better today than I did though, had Sangha meditation today which always helps. But it still, overall, leaves me feeling that once the older generations die off a bit more, it'll become a norm in our society just like allowing women and minorities to vote. However, there are still people here who would prefer women don't have as many rights as we do (and we still aren't equal).
  • federica said:

    For such a 'young' country, Americans are really horrendously behind the times, and ligatured by the invented strictures of Religious fanaticism.

    Marriage as we know it today, has actually very little to do with 'Marriage' as portrayed in Biblical terms. In fact, it is supposed that much written in the Bible on Marriage, was a later addition to conform religiously with current laws of that time - so, much may have been added in, in the 14th century onwards, in order to use"Biblical God-given rulings" which would be in line with the religious thinking of that time - but which in fact would then be turned round to make people believe that such thinking was Biblically-based. Mindful of the fact that less than 1% of the population of that time could actually read or write... Even some members of the nobility were illiterate - which is why they employed secretaries and scribes to put into writing what they expressed verbally....How were they to know whence such rulings came?
    This is why Religion alone cannot dissolve marriage Union. Because primarily it's a union founded on Law, not religion. And It's the Union of 2 people.
    We've managed to deal with it here in the UK. Without too much of a fuss.....

    I have held this type of thought for so long, America is really a very young country but considered devolped and it's curreny atm the safest. However, the murder rate is really realy close to most 3rd world countries and often to me seems backwards. Every country in the EU does not have the dealth penalty apart from US states for example. I do not know why the US has tunrned out a lot worse than Aus when the same sort of people were sent to such places. America or shall I say the US has a might probem and problems on it's hands on many many levels, I am interested to see what plays out.

    Marriage has totally lost its value and purpose as times change, things change so we and everyone should accpet these things and change with them. We all know why marriage settlements were set up in the first place, are they valid now in most cases? Who is the bread winner? Same sex relationships, what would you do then in a breakup of marriage?
  • FoibleFullFoibleFull Canada Veteran
    I agree with the quote by Gandhi.
    We cannot change the world ... we can only change ourselves. If we do not like the world, if we think it is a hard cruel place, WE can make ourselves non-hard, non-cruel. And if everyone else did that ... well then the world would not be such a difficult place.
    Not that I expect that to happen.
    But in yoga philosophy there is the saying, "Everything you do has a result, even if you don't see it." By that thinking, every piece of kindness sets a seed of kindness somewhere in the world.
    ThailandTomBunks
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    Much of the murder rate and similar problems is due to the vast differences in who controls, and uses, the vast majority of resources. You also have to remember that the murder rate reflects a pretty large population variance, for example Chicago is almost always one of the higher murder rates in the US, which there has not been a murder where I live for 30 years, lol. Also, if you look at violent crime and not just murder, cities in the safer countries (like Toronto, Canada) have higher violent crime rates than even NYC and LA. Property crimes, we rank lower than a lot of other western countries. Murder, we are exponentially higher, largely due to our love of guns and weapons, the ease of getting them and the lack of rationale when using them. The types of victims and criminals depends a lot on race and income, and if you look at the map for the US of violent crimes and especially murder, the highest rates coincide with mostly states with higher minority populations...which generally goes back to our lengthy history of whites versus everyone else. It's a really complex thing, overall. I don't think there is any one conclusion that can be drawn, since it's all sociologists study and they don't have it figured out, lol.

    As for the marriage thing, it's all about wanting to control others that they feel are lesser. They make excuses about their religion, or about how it's unnatural (what about love is unnatural) and make ridiculous arguments like "marriage is for the purpose of procreation and raising children" yet we allow infertile people to marry, and people who don't want children, and people who are too old to have children. It's just all such a crock of excuses it's amazing. People are afraid of anything different and seek to oppress it.
    MaryAnne
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    And do keep in mind that in many "third world countries" and "rapidly industrializing nations", the murder rates are not accurate.
  • lobsterlobster Crusty Veteran
    Judgement is often emotionally based.
    According to our Buddhist practice, we can change. Not maybe. Not perhaps. Really.
    We do that daily.

    Go Ghandhi :)
  • We cannot change the world. We can only change ourselves and, in so doing, change the world.
    RebeccaSThailandTom
  • I agree. However, I recently learned how to change a light bulb. ;)
    lobster
  • The world and we are not two.
    Change ourselves and the world changes.
    We have no way of knowing how things will pan out if we see ourselves as change agents saving the world.
    Ajahn Chah used to tell the story of the helpful monkey who was filled with compassion for all beings...one day he saw a fish in a pool. He went to great lengths to save the fish from drowning .
    Finally, have rescued the fish from the pool he was filled with compassion. So he lodged the fish in the branch of a tree in order to save it from a watery grave..
    ThailandTomtmottes
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