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Thanks for putting such a studious effort into minutely describing your problem. I wonder how a sleeping mind at night might deal with a mind, that during one's waking life, seems as preoccupied with sexual thoughts as yours.
I bet there are answers for all of us in there somewhere.
My age is 31years and my current body weight of nearly 50 kg indicates the weakness in my body. So i want to reduce this discharging of semens from my body.
You should read up more on physiology and biology - be prepared to adapt and modify the beliefs you already hold - try seeing it from the other angle.
Reducing discharging semen probably will not make you any stronger.
Weight training and a relatively high protein diet probably will make you stronger.
You're not wasting semen when you discharge, any more than you waste saliva when you chew chewing gum or waste tears if you watch a tear-jerker - unless your aim is to conceive a child each time you discharge... given that you're not engaged in repopulating the world, squeezing off a few clips down the shooting range probably won't be detrimental.
Life is short - probably too short to worry too much about every last drop of semen.
^^ I agree Bunks. The energy thing is right out of the 1950s and has been long since debunked. And you don't go blind from masturbating, either. You go bald. I'm living proof!
It's a really common thing in India (fear of loss of semen). It's a Hindu belief... I can't remember the ins and outs but it's basically that food takes forty days to convert to one drop of blood and it takes forty drops of blood to make one sperm so losing sperm is seen as a huge loss of energy.
I don't know if the OP meets the criteria for Dhat syndrome, but it's really common in India (which is where he is from I think) and is based around the fear of losing semen and requires professional intervention.
@Bunks, @vinlyn, @zero: thanks for the information you shared. So it seems that from your perspective, semens has nothing to do with energy.
Just two days back, a saw a you-tube video, showing the linkage of semens to Veerya, the energy in our body:
It does contain some Hinduism beliefs, so please feel free to neglect it. But apart from that it contains some information related to semens from a biological point of view. I do not know that whether it is correct or not - but if you say it is not correct, then can you please substantiate your statement with some article on the internet through a URL, so that i can also go through that URL to correct my understanding.
Also do let me know, if discharging of semens does not have any implications on the spiritual journey, then why is celibacy recommended for monks? Any ideas, please.
In terms of the medical aspect, you can do your own Google search "loss of semen" + "energy". And if you choose to believe the Indian viewpoint...fine. Or the Western viewpoint...fine.
In terms of why celibacy is recommended for monks, my general belief was that it was to totally avoid the possibility of wrong thought and wrong action.
It's a really common thing in India (fear of loss of semen). It's a Hindu belief... I can't remember the ins and outs but it's basically that food takes forty days to convert to one drop of blood and it takes forty drops of blood to make one sperm so losing sperm is seen as a huge loss of energy.
I don't know if the OP meets the criteria for Dhat syndrome, but it's really common in India (which is where he is from I think) and is based around the fear of losing semen and requires professional intervention.
@RebeccaS: i just saw your this post. the you-tube video also says something similar to what you have written. i am from india. i do not fear loss of semen, but since i have struck spirituality in last year, i think if there is some way i can reduce the nightfall problem, to use the energy in the spiritual direction.
Nightfall has nothing to do with energy in that sense. It's basically your body cleaning itself out, getting rid of "back up". Your body produces enough semen every twenty minutes for a full ejaculation. To prevent the prostate from becoming infected by old semen (it does happen) it discharges the old semen to be replaced by new semen. It's completely natural and normal. If you want it to stop you simply have to ejaculate more frequently.
it contains some information related to semens from a biological point of view. I do not know that whether it is correct or not - but if you say it is not correct, then can you please substantiate your statement with some article on the internet through a URL, so that i can also go through that URL to correct my understanding.
Also do let me know, if discharging of semens does not have any implications on the spiritual journey, then why is celibacy recommended for monks? Any ideas, please.
I'm not sure - I cannot convince you of what is correct or not - only you can convince yourself - for example, why would you trust youtube or a URL any more than a bare statement from me?
It undoubtedly takes energy to make semen - if the sole purpose of semen is insemination then yes; if you do not inseminate with every ejaculation, you are 'wasting' energy.
That said, your body is exothermic meaning it is broadly burning / wasting energy all the time anyway.
Anecdotally, I jerked off a lot when I was young and I was still in every sport team and usually at the top - currently, I'm slamming big weights and my semen usage doesn't seem to make any difference... I couldn't be more sure than that as I have never carried out a comparative survey.
I'm sure I've read research that regular ejaculation (i think 3 times a week) is good for a healthy prostate.
I can't say whether ejaculation will have any implications for your spiritual journey - only you know that - I can say with a fair degree of certainty that it is not an issue that has me pondering on my journey - yet!
Look at it this way perhaps - if you and I both have a wet dream... you would be worried/concerned and I would not be... there are implications for both of our spiritual journeys but in different ways and one view does not necessarily assist the other.
If it is an issue, you will have to reconcile it - if it not, you will not - there are some of the implications right there.
How to control lust? You don't control lust. But you DO control your actions. As for the lust itself .. it is one more desire of ever so many.
You work with your desires by allowing them to be there, by opening to them, by NOT thinking that you need to "fix" them or get rid of them. Doesn't mean you let them push your around or control your actions. The bulk of their painfulness is in our resistance. Ever watched little kids get flu shots in their arm? How they make a big thing out of it, and in their resistance it becomes something awful and fearsome? It's okay to feel lust. It means you are alive. So the mindfulness you have learned during meditation .. you apply that to observing your lust. And allowing it to be there.
I think you should go see a doctor rather than asking a bunch of people on the internet.
In term of Buddhism I recommend reading the Universal Gate chapter of the Lotus Sutra and uphold the title of Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva. Regular repentance infront of the Buddha if your feeling guilty is also a good practice.
If you've already kicked the habit of actually watching porn, then I praise you!
Ignore the opinions on here that tell you it's all "natural" and nothing. Sexual misconduct and heavy attachment is like a fire that burns up our wisdom and good root. Which assures rebirth in a lower realm.
I think you should go see a doctor rather than asking a bunch of people on the internet.
In term of Buddhism I recommend reading the Universal Gate chapter of the Lotus Sutra and uphold the title of Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva. Regular repentance infront of the Buddha if your feeling guilty is also a good practice.
If you've already kicked the habit of actually watching porn, then I praise you!
Ignore the opinions on here that tell you it's all "natural" and nothing. Sexual misconduct and heavy attachment is like a fire that burns up our wisdom and good root. Which assures rebirth in a lower realm.
So @Metallica, do you consider masturbation to be sexual misconduct i.e. it breaks that particular precept?
You may have taken my question as a challenge but I assure you it wasn't. I am interested in your opinion is all.
I started another thread the other day regarding monks, nuns and masturbation and the vibe I got is that it is ok in a lot of schools for them to do it.
I started another thread the other day regarding monks, nuns and masturbation and the vibe I got is that it is ok in a lot of schools for them to do it.
The individual must do as Shakyamuni suggested and investigate things for themselves.
That is the most important thing. When it comes to this topic I have sought out information from EVERY source I could find.
I was searching for an answer that I could not find anywhere.
And as cliche as it sounds, as I type this now I realize that the answer is within.
It isn't an answer like, "43". It is simply listening, following your conscience.
We are our own best guides.
I have been doing this for a little while now but I only just actually started thinking about how I really was searching for some end all be all answer to solve my sexual "equation" and that I have been listening to that guide.
Not long ago the guide was screaming loudly as I was involved in sexual misconduct, "You stupid *$&#**#!!"
Ok, well the guide was a bit less profane than that, actually the guide is very polite and gentle it is just when I go waaaaaaaay off track that it doesn't feel so good because I am so far out of line with what is right.
Having been to hell I realize there is good reason to avoid going back.
I have these frequent flyer miles though and I don't want to waste them..
And a good one too. @misecmisc1 needs to go ahead and enjoy his strong sex drive and willing wife while it lasts. He is blessed. Sex drive can be diminished for any number of reasons. And wives can go away. Take it from a guy with diminished sex drive whose wife went away(not necessarily in that order).
It may seem like "other" women. It may seem like "lust" or "sexual" desire.
But inquire deeper. That is the just surface level of desire. Look deeper into that desire. What if you come from the point of view that desire isn't bad. Cast aside the traditional assumptions in classical dharma. What if you explore and open up totally to that desire? What happens to the heart? What happens to the beingness? Can you feel the energy of the desire? What happens when you open up to that energy? How does this relate to the desire and what your heart desires?
In Vajrayana desire is a divine arising. The energy of desire is in fact the energy of this whole universe. We focus on objects of desire and never the desire itself. When we examine the desire we feel energy. The energy is opened up to and without aversion or attachment we allow that energy to expand. That expansion touches the heart and allows for love and tenderness. We find that the energy for desire is the energy of love. And such love when recognized to have no center and boundary becomes infinite in expression and energy.
So examine desire and throw away your dharmic preconceptions.
@taiyaki: after seeing your above advise, i tried to do it. usually when i was trying to arouse that desire of lust in me to analyze what you said above, then the funny part is - even though a girl, who looks sexy in her body figure, was near my seat, i tried to manually generate that desire of lust in my mind to analyze how it feels and the strange thing is that i was not able to develop the desire of lust at that time properly to analyze something in me - then i left the idea of generating lust in my mind and thought if later a thought of lust arises, i will try to analyze it.
So i think after some time later, or the next day, when i saw that girl, some thought started arising in me - is she looking at me, or should i go to her seat to start a conversation etc, then i tried to think how i was feeling at that stage. Then i tried to drop the idea of the girl in my mind and started trying to feel how i was feeling at that stage - it is difficult to describe how i felt - but it was something like i was feeling there is something like some sort of air inside me, which was trying to put pressure from inside to my body - something like air inside a football pressuring to go out of football, though it was not exactly like this, i think it was something similar that i was feeling something trying to expand in me and there was a feeling of heaviness in my body. So is this observation just some bodily feeling at that moment, or is it something related to desire? Can you throw some more light on the method you were telling above to examine desire - may be i was not analyzing it in the proper way. Please suggest.
@misecmisc1: Good stuff! Keep attending to the physical sensations triggered by lust. Dropping the idea of the girl to attend to the feeling was very skillful.
There is no such thing as right and wrong when we examine the body.
Sensations in the body are pure and become defiled when we overlay concepts and stories.
So what you did was good. Keep exploring the sense of expanding. Where exactly is it? Is it a grouping of sensations or is it one sensation?
Keep a journal and keep exploring the bodily sensations that you relate with lust. Where are the majority of these sensations occurring? What is your relationship between the sensations? Are you curious? Is there aversion? What happens when you follow your curiosity? What happens when you let it expand? What happens when you throw away all the ideas you have about the body and direct observe what is occurring? What does the expansion say about desire? Does desire fade? What is it that you desire? Pleasure? Is the desire itself pleasurable?
Here is a two part series on the various perspectives on desire from the different vehicles of Buddhism. Part one is good, part one touches upon what we are discussing.
For myself when lust is explored, there is a heavy sense of presence and dynamic life energy that flows from such passionate desire. Naturally the desire pushes me to move outwards and express it. But if I choose to let it do its thing in the body without push/pull from me then the desire expresses itself as the fruit of what I truly desired. So lust for me was a desire for love in a deeper sense. A longing for connection not really for another person, but for the positive qualities of the heart: joy and openness.
But thats a sample of exploration I have done in my practice.
I hope you investigate and explore with a curious and engaged mind. Desire is a very mysterious thing and we shouldn't dismiss it. Desire has a lot to teach us.
Please pm me if you have anymore questions and listen to the audios.
An interesting discussion. I'm not sure exactly what the problem is, or what you want to change. You're worried about nocturnal emissions or erotic dreams? Wear underwear to bed and stop worrying about something beyond your control. Also, why would you focus on an obscure yoga tradition that takes a lifetime of devoted effort or outdated attitudes about orgasms and such?
You handle lustful thoughts the same way you handle any thought. Notice what you're thinking about, and then let it go and refocus on what you're doing. Know the difference between fantasy and reality and treat each accordingly. We all enjoy fantasies. That's why entertainment is a multi-billion dollar industry. But no, in real life the pizza guy isn't going to whip out his sausage and the wife isn't going to walk in on you and another woman and surprise you by wanting to join. That's fantasy. So is chasing the bad guy in your sooped up car and blowing him away when you finally catch up, just in time for the kidnapped victim to fall in love with you. Harmless fantasy in moderation.
Ok but, its natural human behavour. Guys go to work and fantisize over their attractive work mates, women go to work and fantistize over the builders doing work outside, thats an unwritten taken isnt it, whats the issue, i cant see a problem here, enjoy the talent mate, dont thin rotten body with worms, think cute chick with lovley legs lol.
I'm a bloke and I can't but help look at woman who attracts me and not think lustful thoughts; when I was a kid all I could think about was sex. And yes, to be honest, my sex conduct has gotten me into a lot of trouble over the years. I've had affairs 'n' stuff and harmed others greatly. I've learned from that.
I find now that I'm 43 that these thoughts are less troublesome - and I just don't act on them. In certain areas of my life (A.A.) I purposely keep some distance between myself and females. I'm friendly, but not overly so.
So, I've nothing much to share apart from as we get older, the sex thing becomes less troublesome. I wouldn't worry about it too much. I'd not say anything to Mrs Tosh about my thoughts either.
And to be honest, the way she lecherously watched all those male cyclists in their tight lycra clothing at the Olympics - I think she's pretty much the same as myself.
We're human, I try not to deny it, but I also try not to harm others these days too.
Ok but, its natural human behavour. Guys go to work and fantisize over their attractive work mates, women go to work and fantistize over the builders doing work outside, thats an unwritten taken isnt it, whats the issue, i cant see a problem here, enjoy the talent mate, dont thin rotten body with worms, think cute chick with lovley legs lol.
Rotten body contemplation was advice given mostly to monks who would be breaking their precepts if they enjoyed an attractive woman. Their practice was to destroy Mara, not to admire her. Of course it's natural and an unwritten taken, but that natural desire is considered one reason why people are stuck in the sea of suffering called samsara. It goes far beyond just sex, into the core of Buddhist teaching in that what is impermanent is dukkha or suffering. So the idea is that if you admire a cute chick with lovely legs, you are really admiring and taking delight, in suffering. So if the goal of a monk was to cut off all suffering in this lifetime, they practiced not taking delight in it.
The five aggregates, monks, are anicca, impermanent; whatever is impermanent, that is dukkha, unsatisfactory; whatever is dukkha, that is without attaa, self. What is without self, that is not mine, that I am not, that is not my self. Thus should it be seen by perfect wisdom (sammappa~n~naaya) as it really is. Who sees by perfect wisdom, as it really is, his mind, not grasping, is detached from taints; he is liberated.
Belive , when a cute chick walks by an smiles, im not suffering . But if i then started chatting her up and becoming attached and stuff , then yes i can see how it would lead to trouble, i guess its a case of enjoy but know where the line is, and have som ediscipline, other than that, im sure everyone flirts, men, women both, as long as it stays harmless fun and nothing more,and you and your partner are clear on whats acceptble, i think its fine.
Belive , when a cute chick walks by an smiles, im not suffering . But if i then started chatting her up and becoming attached and stuff , then yes i can see how it would lead to trouble, i guess its a case of enjoy but know where the line is, and have som ediscipline, other than that, im sure everyone flirts, men, women both, as long as it stays harmless fun and nothing more,and you and your partner are clear on whats acceptble, i think its fine.
I think it's fine too for laypersons, (I don't think monks are supposed to be out there flirting ). unless it becomes overly obsessive and starts disturbing your daily life. Or when it stop being just harmless fun. Which seems to be what misecmisc1 is experiencing.
Why Hello there ...................... new robe Where did you get your cushion from, i love the pattern ........... oh cool , maybe we could both to Ikea sometime .....................I was just going to pour some tea , maybe if I light some candles you might stay for a cup , i can be soft i can be hard ill like to do the B part lol, joking, I know what you mean .
I am older than most ppl in this forum, but I still have the sexual urge of an adolescent. It is exhausting. There is no solution to this, since it is a biological urge and hence quite natural.
Why Hello there ...................... new robe Where did you get your cushion from, i love the pattern ........... oh cool , maybe we could both to Ikea sometime .....................I was just going to pour some tea , maybe if I light some candles you might stay for a cup , i can be soft i can be hard ill like to do the B part lol, joking, I know what you mean .
Maybe we can go to Ikea!
I always thought Ikea would make an excellent/hilarious first date. The ikea restaurant for cheap Swedish meatballs then sitting on the sofas watching the fake tv in the showroom
Here is the Buddha's advice. Note that your partner may not agree to you doing these practices.
Furthermore, the monk reflects on this very body from the soles of the feet on up, from the crown of the head on down, surrounded by skin and full of various kinds of unclean things: 'In this body there are head hairs, body hairs, nails, teeth, skin, flesh, tendons, bones, bone marrow, kidneys, heart, liver, pleura, spleen, lungs, large intestines, small intestines, gorge, feces, bile, phlegm, pus, blood, sweat, fat, tears, skin-oil, saliva, mucus, fluid in the joints, urine.' Just as if a sack with openings at both ..........
"Furthermore, as if he were to see a corpse cast away in a charnel ground — one day, two days, three days dead — bloated, livid, & festering, he applies it to this very body, 'This body, too: Such is its nature, such is its future, such its unavoidable fate'...
"And as he remains thus heedful, ardent, & resolute, any memories & resolves related to the household life are abandoned, and with their abandoning his mind gathers & settles inwardly, grows unified & centered. This is how a monk develops mindfulness immersed in the body.
Controlling lust rather than becoming subject to lust requires moment to moment attention to mindfulness. Every arising lusting that I've seen has required my participation in it's development. It comes down to the binary nano moments of how we respond to the input to our sense gates. These are really just countless yes/no decisions to either linger upon, or to let go of on the way to the next decision.
Ending up under the influence of a lustful pressure is actually the outcome of throwing more of the thousands of preceding binary switches towards that which encourages ones ego, than towards selflessness. . Lust only arrives in force after thousands of personal invitations from us. The force of lust only really turns when ones priority towards mindfulness for selflessness exceeds the habitual feeding of the ego.
The contemplation of loathsome images may be a time honoured Buddhist tradition in deflecting mental sexual imagery but I think it only counters the sexual intent with it's polar opposite, instead of attending to it's real root cause.
@misecmisc1 Brother, let me start by saying how sorry I am to hear of your plight. Massive hug! This topic of lust is something which has affected me a lot over the last few years, but this isnt about me, it is about you. Please start by recalling how we are all the products of conditioning. Mine (growing up in a rural community in Wales) was very different to yours in India. But there are some similarities in the core of all our being, I think. We all share a short list of desires and aversions, but whether we interpret that "vedena" (feeling) as positive, negative or neutral, well, that depends on our conditioning. Conditioning just is. It is innappropriate to apply "good" and "bad" to conditionality.
We are not good people. We are not bad people. These terms do not apply to Buddhism due to a lack of an authority-figure deity/God etc. There is no ABSOLUTE standard for morality or ethical behaviour, other than "skilled" or "unskilled". We all know the difference here, right? :-) An important point to reflect on perhaps, is that as the name suggests, skilled behaviour (i.e. that which not only does not cause suffering to ourselves and others, but also promotes ours and their well being) is something that we have to work on, acquire in time, with patience, kindness to self and other, and in compassion. It is a skill, and like any skill (woodwork, football, painting, cooking etc), it will always improve with diligent practice, hence I am a "practicing" Buddhist. Anyone can be unskilled in thought or deed - no skill or effort required. No improvement of one's mental states. What you are doing my Brother, by taking control and ownership of your situation, is incredibly brave, admirable, and heroic even! The path of the Dharma is not an easy one. None of us will make it out alive ;-)
I have found a few links to some talk I have listen to in my time. I am a member of the Triratna Buddhist Order, and there is a website we have set up called freebuddhistaudio.com, a really useful site with 1000's of talks by some warm, considerate, brilliant Dharma-teachers worldwide, downloaded and listened to by over a million practitioners, and I recon there may well be something on there for everyone - I have come across a difficulty that hasnt has a corresponding talk on this site, check out the below links... There are even talks in Marathi, if that helps?
Also, as a secondary thought, in Buddhist tradition, thoughts (including lust, shame, regret, embarrassment etc) are defined as one of the five "skandhas" or "groups/categories of conditioned phenomena" are by their nature sunyata (or empty of fixed self/void, as the term is most often translated). Seeing this clearly is an important step of lifting the veil of illusion from before your eyes... Sangharakshita, the "English Monk" (and founder of Triratna/FWBO) gave this talk on the heart sutra in the 60's which changed my whole perspective... Its astounding, and may be of immense use to all of us...
The contemplation of loathsome images may be a time honoured Buddhist tradition in deflecting mental sexual imagery but I think it only counters the sexual intent with it's polar opposite, instead of attending to it's real root cause.
But if the root cause is craving for sensual experience, then reducing this craving by various strategies seems to make sense?
I read there is a meditation to remove lust. Just meditate on certain parts of the anatomy like the teeth, the bones or whatever which one would find abhorring. But I think that would time consuming and that would also probably drive you away from everyone nice too. Maybe, concentrating on working and how to love and make one's family happy would be a better idea.
Comments
I wonder how a sleeping mind at night might deal with a mind, that during one's waking life, seems as preoccupied with sexual thoughts as yours.
I bet there are answers for all of us in there somewhere.
Reducing discharging semen probably will not make you any stronger.
Weight training and a relatively high protein diet probably will make you stronger.
You're not wasting semen when you discharge, any more than you waste saliva when you chew chewing gum or waste tears if you watch a tear-jerker - unless your aim is to conceive a child each time you discharge... given that you're not engaged in repopulating the world, squeezing off a few clips down the shooting range probably won't be detrimental.
Life is short - probably too short to worry too much about every last drop of semen.
I don't know if the OP meets the criteria for Dhat syndrome, but it's really common in India (which is where he is from I think) and is based around the fear of losing semen and requires professional intervention.
Just two days back, a saw a you-tube video, showing the linkage of semens to Veerya, the energy in our body:
It does contain some Hinduism beliefs, so please feel free to neglect it. But apart from that it contains some information related to semens from a biological point of view. I do not know that whether it is correct or not - but if you say it is not correct, then can you please substantiate your statement with some article on the internet through a URL, so that i can also go through that URL to correct my understanding.
Also do let me know, if discharging of semens does not have any implications on the spiritual journey, then why is celibacy recommended for monks? Any ideas, please.
In terms of why celibacy is recommended for monks, my general belief was that it was to totally avoid the possibility of wrong thought and wrong action.
Energy has nothing to do with it. At all.
It undoubtedly takes energy to make semen - if the sole purpose of semen is insemination then yes; if you do not inseminate with every ejaculation, you are 'wasting' energy.
That said, your body is exothermic meaning it is broadly burning / wasting energy all the time anyway.
Anecdotally, I jerked off a lot when I was young and I was still in every sport team and usually at the top - currently, I'm slamming big weights and my semen usage doesn't seem to make any difference... I couldn't be more sure than that as I have never carried out a comparative survey.
I'm sure I've read research that regular ejaculation (i think 3 times a week) is good for a healthy prostate.
I can't say whether ejaculation will have any implications for your spiritual journey - only you know that - I can say with a fair degree of certainty that it is not an issue that has me pondering on my journey - yet!
Look at it this way perhaps - if you and I both have a wet dream... you would be worried/concerned and I would not be... there are implications for both of our spiritual journeys but in different ways and one view does not necessarily assist the other.
If it is an issue, you will have to reconcile it - if it not, you will not - there are some of the implications right there.
Good luck.
You don't control lust. But you DO control your actions.
As for the lust itself .. it is one more desire of ever so many.
You work with your desires by allowing them to be there, by opening to them, by NOT thinking that you need to "fix" them or get rid of them. Doesn't mean you let them push your around or control your actions.
The bulk of their painfulness is in our resistance. Ever watched little kids get flu shots in their arm? How they make a big thing out of it, and in their resistance it becomes something awful and fearsome?
It's okay to feel lust. It means you are alive.
So the mindfulness you have learned during meditation .. you apply that to observing your lust. And allowing it to be there.
In term of Buddhism I recommend reading the Universal Gate chapter of the Lotus Sutra and uphold the title of Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva. Regular repentance infront of the Buddha if your feeling guilty is also a good practice.
If you've already kicked the habit of actually watching porn, then I praise you!
Ignore the opinions on here that tell you it's all "natural" and nothing. Sexual misconduct and heavy attachment is like a fire that burns up our wisdom and good root. Which assures rebirth in a lower realm.
You may have taken my question as a challenge but I assure you it wasn't. I am interested in your opinion is all.
I started another thread the other day regarding monks, nuns and masturbation and the vibe I got is that it is ok in a lot of schools for them to do it.
http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/16973/monks-nuns-and-abstinence#latest
That is the most important thing. When it comes to this topic I have sought out information from EVERY source I could find.
I was searching for an answer that I could not find anywhere.
And as cliche as it sounds, as I type this now I realize that the answer is within.
It isn't an answer like, "43". It is simply listening, following your conscience.
We are our own best guides.
I have been doing this for a little while now but I only just actually started thinking about how I really was searching for some end all be all answer to solve my sexual "equation" and that I have been listening to that guide.
Not long ago the guide was screaming loudly as I was involved in sexual misconduct, "You stupid *$&#**#!!"
Ok, well the guide was a bit less profane than that, actually the guide is very polite and gentle it is just when I go waaaaaaaay off track that it doesn't feel so good because I am so far out of line with what is right.
Having been to hell I realize there is good reason to avoid going back.
I have these frequent flyer miles though and I don't want to waste them..
talk about stuck between hell and a nice space.
I'm going to hell.
Lust really messed up my meditation afterwards.
Just sayin'. The sex was awesome, though.
For me it wouldn't be lust afterwards messing up my meditation it would be that I'm falling asleep.
@misecmisc1 needs to go ahead and enjoy his strong sex drive and willing wife while it lasts. He is blessed.
Sex drive can be diminished for any number of reasons. And wives can go away.
Take it from a guy with diminished sex drive whose wife went away(not necessarily in that order).
So i think after some time later, or the next day, when i saw that girl, some thought started arising in me - is she looking at me, or should i go to her seat to start a conversation etc, then i tried to think how i was feeling at that stage. Then i tried to drop the idea of the girl in my mind and started trying to feel how i was feeling at that stage - it is difficult to describe how i felt - but it was something like i was feeling there is something like some sort of air inside me, which was trying to put pressure from inside to my body - something like air inside a football pressuring to go out of football, though it was not exactly like this, i think it was something similar that i was feeling something trying to expand in me and there was a feeling of heaviness in my body. So is this observation just some bodily feeling at that moment, or is it something related to desire? Can you throw some more light on the method you were telling above to examine desire - may be i was not analyzing it in the proper way. Please suggest.
but i have definitely seen toddlers do it.
i think its no different from animals licking themself.
Sensations in the body are pure and become defiled when we overlay concepts and stories.
So what you did was good. Keep exploring the sense of expanding. Where exactly is it? Is it a grouping of sensations or is it one sensation?
Keep a journal and keep exploring the bodily sensations that you relate with lust. Where are the majority of these sensations occurring? What is your relationship between the sensations? Are you curious? Is there aversion? What happens when you follow your curiosity? What happens when you let it expand? What happens when you throw away all the ideas you have about the body and direct observe what is occurring? What does the expansion say about desire? Does desire fade? What is it that you desire? Pleasure? Is the desire itself pleasurable?
Here is a two part series on the various perspectives on desire from the different vehicles of Buddhism. Part one is good, part one touches upon what we are discussing.
http://dharmaseed.org/teacher/210/talk/14586/
http://dharmaseed.org/teacher/210/talk/14587/
For myself when lust is explored, there is a heavy sense of presence and dynamic life energy that flows from such passionate desire. Naturally the desire pushes me to move outwards and express it. But if I choose to let it do its thing in the body without push/pull from me then the desire expresses itself as the fruit of what I truly desired. So lust for me was a desire for love in a deeper sense. A longing for connection not really for another person, but for the positive qualities of the heart: joy and openness.
But thats a sample of exploration I have done in my practice.
I hope you investigate and explore with a curious and engaged mind. Desire is a very mysterious thing and we shouldn't dismiss it. Desire has a lot to teach us.
Please pm me if you have anymore questions and listen to the audios.
You handle lustful thoughts the same way you handle any thought. Notice what you're thinking about, and then let it go and refocus on what you're doing. Know the difference between fantasy and reality and treat each accordingly. We all enjoy fantasies. That's why entertainment is a multi-billion dollar industry. But no, in real life the pizza guy isn't going to whip out his sausage and the wife isn't going to walk in on you and another woman and surprise you by wanting to join. That's fantasy. So is chasing the bad guy in your sooped up car and blowing him away when you finally catch up, just in time for the kidnapped victim to fall in love with you. Harmless fantasy in moderation.
I find now that I'm 43 that these thoughts are less troublesome - and I just don't act on them. In certain areas of my life (A.A.) I purposely keep some distance between myself and females. I'm friendly, but not overly so.
So, I've nothing much to share apart from as we get older, the sex thing becomes less troublesome. I wouldn't worry about it too much. I'd not say anything to Mrs Tosh about my thoughts either.
And to be honest, the way she lecherously watched all those male cyclists in their tight lycra clothing at the Olympics - I think she's pretty much the same as myself.
We're human, I try not to deny it, but I also try not to harm others these days too.
Keep it simple, friend.
Natthi santi param sukham — there is no greater happiness than peace.
-The Buddha
I always thought Ikea would make an excellent/hilarious first date. The ikea restaurant for cheap Swedish meatballs then sitting on the sofas watching the fake tv in the showroom
It just cracks me up.
Furthermore, the monk reflects on this very body from the soles of the feet on up, from the crown of the head on down, surrounded by skin and full of various kinds of unclean things: 'In this body there are head hairs, body hairs, nails, teeth, skin, flesh, tendons, bones, bone marrow, kidneys, heart, liver, pleura, spleen, lungs, large intestines, small intestines, gorge, feces, bile, phlegm, pus, blood, sweat, fat, tears, skin-oil, saliva, mucus, fluid in the joints, urine.' Just as if a sack with openings at both ..........
"Furthermore, as if he were to see a corpse cast away in a charnel ground — one day, two days, three days dead — bloated, livid, & festering, he applies it to this very body, 'This body, too: Such is its nature, such is its future, such its unavoidable fate'...
"And as he remains thus heedful, ardent, & resolute, any memories & resolves related to the household life are abandoned, and with their abandoning his mind gathers & settles inwardly, grows unified & centered. This is how a monk develops mindfulness immersed in the body.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.119.than.html
Controlling lust rather than becoming subject to lust requires moment to moment attention to mindfulness. Every arising lusting that I've seen has required my participation in it's development. It comes down to the binary nano moments of how we respond to the input to our sense gates. These are really just countless yes/no decisions to either linger upon, or to let go of on the way to the next decision.
Ending up under the influence of a lustful pressure is actually the outcome of throwing more of the thousands of preceding binary switches towards that which encourages ones ego, than towards selflessness.
.
Lust only arrives in force after thousands of personal invitations from us. The force of lust only really turns when ones priority towards mindfulness for selflessness exceeds the habitual feeding of the ego.
The contemplation of loathsome images may be a time honoured Buddhist tradition in deflecting mental sexual imagery but I think it only counters the sexual intent with it's polar opposite, instead of attending to it's real root cause.
We are not good people. We are not bad people. These terms do not apply to Buddhism due to a lack of an authority-figure deity/God etc. There is no ABSOLUTE standard for morality or ethical behaviour, other than "skilled" or "unskilled". We all know the difference here, right? :-) An important point to reflect on perhaps, is that as the name suggests, skilled behaviour (i.e. that which not only does not cause suffering to ourselves and others, but also promotes ours and their well being) is something that we have to work on, acquire in time, with patience, kindness to self and other, and in compassion. It is a skill, and like any skill (woodwork, football, painting, cooking etc), it will always improve with diligent practice, hence I am a "practicing" Buddhist. Anyone can be unskilled in thought or deed - no skill or effort required. No improvement of one's mental states. What you are doing my Brother, by taking control and ownership of your situation, is incredibly brave, admirable, and heroic even! The path of the Dharma is not an easy one. None of us will make it out alive ;-)
I have found a few links to some talk I have listen to in my time. I am a member of the Triratna Buddhist Order, and there is a website we have set up called freebuddhistaudio.com, a really useful site with 1000's of talks by some warm, considerate, brilliant Dharma-teachers worldwide, downloaded and listened to by over a million practitioners, and I recon there may well be something on there for everyone - I have come across a difficulty that hasnt has a corresponding talk on this site, check out the below links... There are even talks in Marathi, if that helps?
http://freebuddhistaudio.com/audio/details?num=LOC1404 - "Sex and Morality, Going beyond Puritanism"
And...
http://freebuddhistaudio.com/audio/details?num=LOC1066 - Simply titled "Sex - a talk at the London Buddhist Centre"
Also, as a secondary thought, in Buddhist tradition, thoughts (including lust, shame, regret, embarrassment etc) are defined as one of the five "skandhas" or "groups/categories of conditioned phenomena" are by their nature sunyata (or empty of fixed self/void, as the term is most often translated). Seeing this clearly is an important step of lifting the veil of illusion from before your eyes... Sangharakshita, the "English Monk" (and founder of Triratna/FWBO) gave this talk on the heart sutra in the 60's which changed my whole perspective... Its astounding, and may be of immense use to all of us...
freebuddhistaudio.com/audio/details?num=73 - The Heart Sutra explained
I really hope that people have a listen, I feel its far more skilled for me to suggest the advice of a more experienced teacher/s ;-)
With more love to all of you than I can convey, keep up the great work, there are some wonderfully wise, insightful people on this thread!
In Metta, your brother in the Dharma,
Jay x