"Abide as the Unborn"

zenff

I’m posting this about Bankei because I love the simplicity of his teaching. There’s no question left. “All things are perfectly resolved in the unborn”.

His main advice, given to everyone from rich aristocrats and menacing samurai to merchants, peasant farmers and children, was quite frequently and simply expressed as: “Abide as the Unborn.” “Don’t get ‘born!’” That is, don’t fall into identification as a “me,” a “Buddhist,” “enlightened,” “unenlightened,” “young,” “old,” etc. For instance, when a woman complained that her gender was a karmic obstacle, he retorted: “From what time did you become a woman?” So he taught the multitudes: let go all selfishness and bad habits—they’re not part of your Original Mind (honshin) anyway, and just be at great ease in/as the Unborn Buddha-Mind.
http://www.enlightened-spirituality.org/bankei_zen_master.html

And his moment of enlightenment:

It was during this near-death experience that Bankei attained enlightenment, later stating of the experience:
“ I felt a strange sensation in my throat. I spat against a wall. A mass of black phlegm large as a soapberry rolled down the side...Suddenly, just at that moment...I realized what it was that had escaped me until now: All things are perfectly resolved in the unborn.[3]
”
Following this breakthrough his doubt and questioning ceased while his physical condition turned for the better. Once strong enough to travel again, he returned to Umpo to relay his experience to him. Umpo confirmed his enlightenment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bankei_Yōtaku

fivebells

But you can't just do that. The Buddha devoted his whole life to training people in the ending of becoming/birth.

zenff

fivebells said:

But you can't just do that...

Exactly. I think it is a matter of not-doing.

seeker242

zenff said:

fivebells said:

But you can't just do that...

Exactly. I think it is a matter of not-doing.

Not doing what?

taiyaki

Ending of fabrication and penetrating the real condition.

Songhill

zenff:

The "unborn" is the unborn mind (asamskrta citta), or the same, the unborn Buddha mind which we all have but don't realize it because of its unborn-ness (we only know born or originated things). Again, we are all caught up in the born or originated mind, our daily thoughts, etc.

The great Zen teachers and Lamas always speak of the unborn Mind, or the pure Mind, or the Buddha Mind, etc. and the need to realize it in this lifetime. Grandmaster Huang-po describes the unborn mind this way.

"This ultimate pure source of Mind encompasses all Buddhas, sentient beings and the world of mountains, rivers, forms and formlessness. Throughout the ten directions, all and everything reflects the equality of pure Mind, which is always universally penetrating and illuminating. However, those with merely worldly understanding cannot recognize this truth and so identify seeing, hearing, touching and thinking as the mind. Covered by seeing, hearing, touching and thinking, one cannot see the brightness of Original Mind. If suddenly one is without mind, Original Mind will appear like the great sun in the sky, illuminating everywhere without obstruction."

lobster

If we try and find who we are, we will never end.

If we realise we are not a list of attributes . . . we may end

. . . the continuity of searching for the birth of enlightenment . . .

sova

what is not born can never die

zenff

seeker242 said:

zenff said:

fivebells said:

But you can't just do that...

Exactly. I think it is a matter of not-doing.

Not doing what?

Not adding words, concepts and preferences.

Speculating about the unborn and naming it (the unborn or suchness or Buddha mind) is only making waves when there is no wind. Another expression for it (that I read from some advaita person) is "the silent life".

Conversations on the subject are problematic. They are as if we're polishing the furniture with sandpaper.

zenff

The silent life, the unborn, the Buddha mind is like the furniture. It is right here, it is what we are.
When we grab for it with our conceptual mind we are polishing the furniture with sandpaper.
When we meditate (when we stop grabbing) we are polishing the furniture with a soft cloth.

Is that a good comparison?

Daozen

Nothing is born, nothing dies.

xabir

Before birth, Who are You?

If you don't know this... there is no abiding as the unborn. One can only keep inquiring on this question until your original face dawns.

pegembara

Don't be anything. Don't be born. Don't become anything.

Don't be unenlightened. Don't be enlightened.

If you are anything at all you will have the suffering of that thing.

seeker242

I think a conversation with Banki would go something like this.

Banki: "Don't get born!"

Person: "What does that mean?"

Banki: "Not adding words, concepts and preferences."

Person: "Ok cool! So how do I do that? How do I stop adding words, preferences, etc.? I have a habit of doing that all my life for a long, long time and I have tried to stop but it's difficult."

Banki: "Don't get born!"

Person: "Umm, ok. Thanks, I guess... :-/ "

RebeccaS

“ I felt a strange sensation in my throat. I spat against a wall. A mass of black phlegm large as a soapberry rolled down the side...

Eewwwww

What was wrong with him?

Edit: TB according to google. Still though... Gross.

Songhill

zenff:

Not adding words, concepts and preferences.

Speculating about the unborn and naming it (the unborn or suchness or Buddha mind) is only making waves when there is no wind. Another expression for it (that I read from some advaita person) is "the silent life".

Conversations on the subject are problematic. They are as if we're polishing the furniture with sandpaper.

The Buddhist adept is supposed to seek the unborn or the pure Mind and hopefully find it. Without finding the unborn Mind there is no bodhisattva path (the bhumis) and no Buddhahood.

Songhill

pegembara:

Don't be anything. Don't be born. Don't become anything.

Don't be unenlightened. Don't be enlightened.

If you are anything at all you will have the suffering of that thing.

You can't "don't" your way to the incorporeal seeing of the unborn Mind. All your life you've been engaged with 'born things'. Your thoughts, your feelings, your internal dialogue, etc. are all born. It's like a jungle. However, somewhere in that jungle is the unborn Mind. The seeing of it comes in an instant. In that seeing you realize this unborn Mind is the true unconditioned substance of all things.

pegembara

------

pegembara

@Songhill

Then you have nothing to say!
You are right though except for the part about the Mind being the true substance.

Songhill

Pegembara:

The unborn Mind IS the true substance. Realize it and you are free. Even the great physicist Max Planck said as much:

“There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter (Dieser Geist ist der Urgrund aller Materie).”

zenff

Songhill said:

pegembara:

Don't be anything. Don't be born. Don't become anything.

Don't be unenlightened. Don't be enlightened.

If you are anything at all you will have the suffering of that thing.

You can't "don't" your way to the incorporeal seeing of the unborn Mind. ...

Spitting black phlegm against a wall apparently does the trick.
Or breaking a leg; like in the case of Yunmen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yunmen_Wenyan
I suppose it happens in different ways for different people. I think I can safely say though that intellectual hairsplitting is not one of those ways.

In all the stories I know people just practice and their moment of realization happens out of the blue; not as a logical linear result of an x-step program.

Jeffrey

Lord Mirror Laughing Vajra I Call to You

sova

Jeffrey

Oh my gosh!