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Why aren't monks allowed to eat after noon?
TheEccentric
Hampshire, UK Veteran
With all due respect to the tradition this sounds absolutely ridiculous, what's the point of it?
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The lay population had only one proper, cooked meal a day. That was the evening meal, when the men came back from the fields or whereever they had to toil all day. The monks lived off the leftovers of these meals, and those were given to them the following morning. The monks figured that the lay population would not appreciate a begging monk with a bowl showing up while the hungry man of the house was trying to relax and sit down to a meal after a hard day of work.
So the monks confined their begging to the morning, when they were given the leftovers. These leftovers were taken back to the temples and their own meal prepared. It worked out best for them and the surrounding population they depended on and kept hard feelings at bay.
One of the repeated criticisms of Buddhist temples as they spread was that the monks sat around, collected donations that went to useless statues and countless copies of sutras, and still lived off the hard work of the surrounding population. The temples ended up as landowners, even, and given the feudal system took most of what the farmer produced on top of that. Sometimes the criticisms got so bad that the temples and monks were banned by the authorities (who wanted those riches for themselves).
To counter this, some schools of Buddhism changed to become self-sufficient and that worked out much better. Granted, the monks now had to work and sweat out in the fields also, and there was no reason for that no eating after noon rule, but that's tradition for you. Once a rule becomes tradition, it becomes sacred and remains long after its purpose is over.
The 12 noon rule applies to Theravadin monks or Theravadin lay people who have taken three more precepts than the usual five.
Usually because they are on retreat.
Anyhow, I just wanted to add that my teacher is Vajrayana, Nyingma tradition and he still abides by the 2 meals a day rule. From what I've found, many Tibetan monastics still take this, it is part of the 36 precepts.
eating after midday (Exceptions: if one is ill, if one is traveling, or if one cannot meditate properly without food.)
Personally I know no Nyingma or Kagyu or Sayka teacher, lay or monastic, that keeps the 12 noon rule.
Most Gelugpa do.
Traleg Rinpoche (Kagyu) nearly starved himself to death after years of avoiding food, because digestion interfered with his meditation. He really got life-threateningly ill and emaciated at one point. I guess he got over the obstacle-to-meditation thing, because he's been rolley-polley ever since.
Eat within reason and without guilt, OP. Eat to nourish yourself, and be grateful for each meal. Eat mindfully, and all will be well.
Hypothesis:The buddha gave that precept for a reason regarding the practice.
The buddha saw that without moderation in eating it was to hard to keep good vigilance (digestion causes mind to be overcomed by sloth-drowsiness,the body gets heavy..this is not a personal opinion, digestion does that and thats why people take naps and rests after it).
Without vigilance it was impossible to keep right mindfulness, without right mindfulness it was impossible to overcome the hindrances, without overcoming the hindrances it was impossible to progress in the meditation, and without progress..well there was no point.
This line of reasoning its in the suttas.
Anyways, as it was explained, it only for monks or serious practitioners.
With Metta.
since my weight loss surgery a few years back I eat 6-8 small meals a day, which works well for me. When I first started going to the monastery I worried about the not eating after 12 thing because I can't fit in so much food in a sitting, but it turned out to be fine even with me doing physical labor like chopping and moving wood. Personally I like the fact that you know after 12 you are done with worrying about eating and concentrate on your the work at hand.
You'd be surprised how little the human body ACTUALLY needs, compared to how much we ACTUALLY eat in modern society.
When the monks reflect on requisites they reflect on how they eat this food for the nourishment of the body, not for enjoyment, intoxication, gluttony, etc etc. So when you eat enough for the body to be healthy that is all thats needed.
I see nothing wrong with the no eating after 12 tradition and as long as you are a lay person there is no need to worry about it so I don't see a need to down the practice or be critical of it.
I think the answer is more walking meditation! or Thudong!
one of the things that I feel such a connection to and that I think is important is the daily pindapat, where the monks go to collect food once a day.. this seems to be nearly gone from the planet except in some spots of buddhist countries. Having to walk a few miles to get your food would be exercise.
I already feel remiss that I won't be able to do that daily( I know some places do it once a month etc) when/if I become a monastic here in America.
I think I'd be afraid to be a monastic in America, who knows what some of the people would feed you!
I don't think there's any significant amount of food being given to the average monk by tourists. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it's not common. First, monks are mostly out at dawn doing their food rounds, and most tourists are not. But, like poor Americans, the poor Thais that are the biggest contributors of food are not contributing the most healthy diet to the monks.
and if/when I'm a monk , whatever I'd be fed is fine, I'd eat it.. I'm not a vegetarian and the vinaya states that the monks accept and eat what is given, with very rare exception( for instance if you know any animal is specifically killed for you). It is all just used to nourish the body and for living the brahmacharyia lifestyle, not for enjoyment.
I have no desire to be a monk in a "buddhist country" the dhamma is fragile yet with so much potential here in America, here( in the west) is the place for a monk to be in this new century
Bhante G walks a few miles every day during the 12-2 free period at Bhavana Society. This is why he is thin and fairly healthy at 85 years old. I plan to do the same.. if I could run as a monk I would but I'll have to give up running( I do barefoot running currently).
as a monk I will have to be content with walking and yoga :P
On the other hand, when I was living over there I bought chicken breasts one day at the market, and when I got home the odor led me to believe they were quite definitely spoiled. I mentioned it to my Thai partner as I was throwing them away, and he said, "Oh wait! We can give them to the maid!" Duuuuuuh!
As for the rule limiting the collection and consumption of food to between dawn and noon, the two main reasons for its existence I've seen are (1) eating too late can cause drowsiness, making meditation (an important part of the monastic life) more difficult, and (2) eating only once a day helps to reduce the burden on the lay community, which supports the monastic community with the majority of their material requisites. (An exception is made for monastics who are ill, however.) And this training rule is also undertaken by lay-followers who wish to have a more rigorous practice, part of which is to reduce the amount of time and energy spent on indulging in sense pleasures.
And I just want to throw out there that, from personal experience, eating only one to two meals a day really isn't as difficult or austere as it may seem. When I was living at a monastery for a while, I was really afraid I couldn't do it; but after a week or so, I got used to it and made sure I ate enough to last me the whole days (sans a piece of cheese and some tea later in the evening, of course). I suppose some people may have a harder time adjusting; but honestly, it's not a big deal, and you're definitely not going to waste away or die from hunger.
In addition, I find not eating after noon while on meditation retreats to be much more preferable than eating throughout the entire day. I generally feel lighter and more awake, for one. Yes, many Theravadin monasteries (especially Thai ones) allow cheese and/or dark chocolate after noon, primarily because neither are mentioned specifically in the Vinaya, so they must be placed into which ever of the five groups they most closely belong, and some consider them as tonics rather than staple food, which can be taken whenever one feels ill, run down, or tired.
Dark chocolate is made from cocoa and salt, which are medicines, and sugar, which is a tonic. In addition, the presence of small amounts of milk, which is considered a food, doesn't put a chocolate into the food category from a Vinaya standpoint until it's sufficient enough to make it 'milk chocolate'. So some argue that dark chocolate can be used as a medicine or tonic.
As for cheese, some argue that it's sufficiently similar to 'navanita' and dissimilar to anything else placed by the Buddha into the other four groups to be considered in the same category. However, certain monasteries have changed their views about this and no longer allow cheese, e.g., I think this is the case at Wat Metta and Bodhinyana Monastery.
In a comment on Ajahn Sujato's blog, Ajahn Brahmali explains this in more detail:
that being said, while they had some minor issues at first, Bhante G has become part of the community there, these are very nice people who we wave at while we walk and they wave back etc. Have faith in humanity, even " those ignorant Christians!" :P
also btw.. no monk expects or looks for non-buddhists to donate dana, it's not their place to do so, so the locals wouldn't be feeding any monks anyways.
There's a calendar in the monastery kitchen, and as soon as a new calendar is put up, the whole year is usually full, booked out, in just a couple of weeks.
Some western monks have tried to go on an actual alms-round, walking the streets, but westerners don't know what's happening and so the monks don't get much, if anything. But once the westerners get the idea, they give enough food too, especially if the monks are in a town centre, not a residential area.
I did it once as a layperson in a western country, and the two of us got enough food to feed three or four people... it was mostly bread, cake, subway sandwiches, and cola.
Subway is healthy enough I guess.
lol on the subway. I guess it depends how much processed meat and mayo you put on it, as to how healthy it is. Not so much if you eat like my son who gets double meat (spicy italian) on white bread and cheese and that's it.
Its in the nikayas somewhere..
A lot of wild animals then, even worse was humans with bad intentions.
Even worse still, humans now have tnt and machine guns.