Bought myself some SAP gloves.

Zayl

Well, since I got a new job in a let's say less than good side of Saginaw I decided to shell out some money for some SAP gloves. For those of you who don't know, SAP gloves are thick leather gloves with steel plates and powdered steel/steel buckshot protecting the knuckles/fingers. Their primary purpose is to transfer a more solid strike to your opponent, while protecting your hand from any damage caused by punching. Unlike brass knuckles which concentrate the force of your strike, causing severe damage to both your opponent and yourself. SAP gloves are designed to distribute the force over a wider area, meaning your hand will not get hurt as much. And you can K.O. someone without causing anything more than superficial damage.

So my question is, does anyone have any experience with these gloves? I talked to a police officer at a red light for a whole two minutes about them, but all I got from him was that he liked the pair he was issued, and that there wouldn't be any legal problems if I owned a pair, unless I took the offensive and committed a crime with them or something (which I don't plan to do) I only bought them to give myself more of a fighting chance the next time I get jumped. Yes it has happened before, and never once in the world have I ever seen a chunky white guy outrun three skinny African Americans. I think they only stopped chasing me because they were just as bewildered as I was. But I can't outrun everything, so I'd like to be able to know that I can hold my own if it got down to it.

So what do ya think? good choice? why or why not? in my opinion it is much better than carrying say, any other type of weapon since it was designed to lessen the risk of injury, instead of causing more pain. Well, except for the other guy. Even if it does not cause flesh wounds getting struck with a fist wrapped in metal can't feel good.

federica

Another crackpot invention.
They don't protect, they inflict.
Therefore, they're aggressive.

Carry a hiking stick with you to help you walk more quickly.
When those at a distance see you already have a visible 'weapon' they'll think twice before considering jumping you.
With gloves, you risk being had from behind before you can even land a sucker punch.
Art least they'll protect your hands while your head's being kicked in.

:rolleyes: :screwy: :shake:

Jeffrey

I think you are preparing from an antipated physical fight. That's your choice and the selection of SAP gloves is a better alternative to a fire-arm from the standpoint of protecting your assailant from (more) serious harm. We have a forum member @Mr_Serenity who is knowledgeable about self-defense and he took a lot of flak from the forum, so just anticipate that a lot of Buddhists aren't comfortable with fighting fire with fire.

federica

Self-defence is fine.
Surreptitiously wearing something that could seriously damage your assailant rather than impede their attack, is quite another.

They may well have a concealed weapon, in which case, gloves may be no match for a knife or club - but carrying a hiking stick, and walking purposefully with it, is an immediate visual image of someone who it may be wiser to steer clear of.

Jeffrey

I like the walking stick idea, BTW.

Plus you can pretend you are Gandalf.

Zero

Zayl said:

So what do ya think? good choice? why or why not?

in my opinion it is much better than carrying say, any other type of weapon since it was designed to lessen the risk of injury, instead of causing more pain.
Well, except for the other guy.

Even if it does not cause flesh wounds getting struck with a fist wrapped in metal can't feel good.

I'm in the UK - it's not legal to carry weapons of any kind.

SAP gloves are not distance weapons - you need to be handy with your fists in the first place and it will be close combat - they offer excellent protection from blunt object attack if you're able to block - there are some with metal plates in the palm which can be used to defend against knife attacks but it's a long shot with hands unless youre seagal I guess.

I'm not sure I see your justification that they're better than other weapons - if you attack with them, it is akin to knuckle dusters except that the risk of injury to your hand is diminished - you're hitting with metal reinforcement - they can easily cause a severe or fatal injury.

Takuan

Anyone ever hear of stun gloves? lol

Brian

Zayl, not a bad idea, especially in Saginaw (Detroiter here, been to Saginaw many times), and most especially in the parts you seem to be talking about.

Being peaceful and anti-weapon is all well and good until the day your life is threatened. Having steel-plated gloves being the difference between a bad day with a story to tell your grandkids and meaningless death at the hands of thugs is something many people cannot comprehend until they live in a place where this is a reality.

Zayl

My only concern with carrying a stick or any other type of self defense weapon is being disarmed and then having said weapon used against me. Besides wouldn't using a hiking stick like a cudgel be much more damaging? I'd also like to point out that even with the gloves, I would much rather opt for trying to outrun whoever is after me. I am fairly handy with my fists as is, I took a few boxing lessons plus I had my brief stint in cage fighting for money. Not to mention that when I was a bit younger I played 30 seconds a lot. For the record, 30 seconds is a "game" where two people duke it out, no holds barred, for 30 seconds only. I know how to land a punch well enough plus I trust my fists over weapons, normally. Since weapons are always flawed, and can break. But you know the limits of your own body. Plus I know how to "hold back" with my fists much better than a weapon. Meaning I will be able to control myself well enough to not accidentally kill or seriously injure someone.

Plus I mean, when I finally do get to my place of employment it'd be easier to place my gloves in my pocket and put my coat up rather than walking into my job with an obvious weapon. And any other weapons small enough to fit in your pocket are generally much, much more dangerous (such as knives, firearms, or other improvised blunt objects.) Though I am considering buying myself a small can of mace, one of the super small pocket sized deals. Spray someone in the face and then book it out of there.

federica

Brian said:

Zayl, not a bad idea, especially in Saginaw (Detroiter here, been to Saginaw many times), and most especially in the parts you seem to be talking about.

Being peaceful and anti-weapon is all well and good until the day your life is threatened. Having steel-plated gloves being the difference between a bad day with a story to tell your grandkids and meaningless death at the hands of thugs is something many people cannot comprehend until they live in a place where this is a reality.

Maybe that's true... Being a Brit, I've led a relatively sheltered life, and not one in a culture where guns may be legally owned and at times, carried, so you're right there.
It's simply that from my PoV, this seems like a deliberate 'come get some if you dare' kind of attitude....

I can't even smack a dog, let alone think of doing anything to anyone else.....

Zayl

@Federica A lot of people who carry weapons for defense do have that "come get me if you dare" attitude, so your PoV is warranted somewhat. However as I said, I would still take every single step possible to avoid a confrontation. Getting into an altercation with your fists, even with these gloves, is something that should never, ever be done frivolously. These are just some extra insurance I suppose. Plus these gloves will give me a bit more oomph, maybe stunning my attacker(s) long enough for me to slip away. Not to mention that if I am wearing these gloves and I get disarmed and the gloves get used against me, then I have much bigger problems to be worrying about.

My thought process for buying these gloves were as follows. I wanted something that can stop an attacker, without permanently harming them. Something that is inconspicuous as to not attract the attention if someone else looking for a fight. And something that would be nigh impossible for someone to take away from me and then use against me, or worse, someone else.

Also, these gloves are very commonly used here by bouncers, private security, police, and military personnel. I have seen their effects first hand, and unlike knuckle dusters which cause severe lacerations and bleeding, people hit with these gloves often don't bleed at all, unless they get clipped in the ear or walloped on the nose or something. If I ever do have to use them, I'd use them much in the same way the police do. One solid strike to the gut to knock the wind out of someone. While they are looking for their breath, I plan to get as much distance between myself and them as possible.

@Brian Yes, I've been to Detroit many times, even got a knife pulled on me there. Lucky for me the idiot did it right across the street from a parked police car, which happened to be occupied. But I can't always expect help to arrive. This is why I can never be truly pacifist. I can be as non violent as I can be, but every now and then a situation comes up where it is just you, and an assailant.

lobster

Maybe you can eventually run or cycle to work. Stay safe.

Zayl

@lobster thanks, once it gets warmer here I do plan to ride a bike hither and yon everywhere. I have big ole muscular thunder thighs so I can get some power and speed on those things, man.

Zero

Yeah- I was thinking that mace would cause less injury to an attacker - that would be useful for medium range against single or multiple and will provide escape opportunity - you can even spray it as you run if you're being pursued.

Gloves are good in that they're always ready - mace for medium, SAP if no choice...

They're good to wear in training as well as they add weight to your hands - if you're going to wear them out, consider buying 2 pairs, one for training and one for wearing - start training with them so you're familiar with how they work and the limits - if striking, go for hard targets - probably best to have some drills well versed - the good thing about reinforced knuckles is that you have the element of surprise on your side - you can strike at areas that are not normally on a target range and disable close range - low arcing hook / straight to the top of the hip bone, straight / hook to front or side of thigh, above and below knees as well as the staple sternum, collar bone, ribs, arms - tape up practice gloves and hit hard targets - your wrist will need some adjustment - blocking is good with foam bat / hard bat (large and small) - wood is probably better as the metal ones dink and dent - a spade is also good as it has a broad metallic flat surface to work off.

lobster

I knew a martial arts instructor in a style that allowed spitting during sparring. This destracting tactic which he amusingly called 'spit fu', is a known tactic. Let's adapt it for peacable people in dangerous situations: take a glug of water, breath through the nose. Mentally imbue the water with a protector mantra, ready to spray a would be attacker with sanctified water, giving you the edge . . . You can swallow the mindful defense weapon . . .

OM VAJRAPANI HUM

mfranzdorf

Good choice. Its a mad world out there.

Zayl

@lobster spitting can distract and put-off someone. But I'd much rather trust in muscle and steel than holy water, no offense. Best case scenario I get it in their eyes so I can get a head start and run from them. Worst case scenario it enrages them.

lobster

Good gracious, the water is an augmentation not a substitute. Spraying water on its own is like bringing a water pistol to a knife fight. Keep the gloves, add the water.

Gui

Were I to walk down the street in my village with metal gloves on and a mouth full of water, I'm sure I would be put under observation!

Zayl

I don't think you're supposed to keep the water in your mouth the entire time. Then it'd be mostly spit you're spraying in someone's face. I mean come on, that's just plain... mean. Plus what if you had to talk to someone? then again having what seems like a gurgling lunatic might scare off someone who is looking to mess with you. I'd just as rather keep a water bottle I blessed beforehand and then open it and chuck it at their head or something (if ya got good aim)

Huh, just hit me. maybe acting completely crazy is a good defense? if I got confronted then tore off all my clothes while screaming in Sanskrit and spitting water at them while running at them...

Jeffrey

"Ever danced with the Devil in the pale moonlight?" Say that haha

lobster

Plus what if you had to talk to someone?

Swallow and take another glug. In aiki jitsu we were taught to blow, causing a blink, this become the moment of response . . .

ThailandTom

If they have powerful magnet you are up shit creek without a paddle. Just don't wash at all and nobody will dare come near, you will smell and look so bad that they won't want to come near you and you won't look like you have anything worth while to steal.

zombiegirl

You can get attempted murder for spitting, just so you know. It sounds crazy, but you can transmit a lot of diseases that way... and thus is the society in which we live.

ThailandTom

zombiegirl said:

You can get attempted murder for spitting, just so you know. It sounds crazy, but you can transmit a lot of diseases that way... and thus is the society in which we live.

I would assume for that to happen you would have to be against one of the worlds best lawyers or something like that.

JohnG

Uhm . . . many problems here. The sap gloves were not designed, nor intended for direct contact to the opponent's head, groin and throat. Also it was never intended for civilian use. That cop was leading you on; in fact these are illegal for civilian and police to use. I suggest a can of pepper spray instead. :coffee:

ThailandTom

JohnG said:

Uhm . . . many problems here. The sap gloves were not designed, nor intended for direct contact to the opponent's head, groin and throat. Also it was never intended for civilian use. That cop was leading you on; in fact these are illegal for civilian and police to use. I suggest a can of pepper spray instead. :coffee:

Drinking a fair bit of coffee or tea there aren't we John Good point though, you can end up killing someone with your hands alone in a fight, let alone if they are wearing metal plated gloves. Then what, you have to try and get away from a murder case by protesting self defense, even then you will get a jail term. It just isn't wise to be going around with that kind of stuff and that mentality. It's why I don't carry a knife around Thailand anymore. If I get robbed I get robbed.. If I get into a fight, well I won't because I don't go looking for trouble so I will just end up getting a beating or talking my way out of it. If I get stabbed then well I get stabbed, whatever will be will be. The first weapon you should be ready to use is your common sense.

JohnG

Of course, it's French roast after all . Working desk right now, and thankfully not working the street tonight. I learned many years back, and I try to teach the new cops that come on; you don't need to find stupid, it'll find you. This goes for civilians as well; but alas, it doesn't work everytime. Good luck. :coffee: good coffee.

ThailandTom

JohnG said:

Of course, it's French roast after all . Working desk right now, and thankfully not working the street tonight. I learned many years back, and I try to teach the new cops that come on; you don't need to find stupid, it'll find you. This goes for civilians as well; but alas, it doesn't work everytime. Good luck. :coffee: good coffee.

Are you a police officer for reals? What situations have you been in where weapons have had a part to play, of course not an officers weapon I mean a civi?

JohnG

Yup, been a cop for 25 years now. For the confrontations, a group of times, pulled my side arm several times, had to wrestle people into hand cuffs, yup! But, I pride myself (yes I know, there shouldn't be any :P) in the way to talk people into compliance. :clap:

Zayl

@JohnG I looked it up, SAP gloves are only illegal in California and Massachusetts, with New York considering outlawing them as well. They are for all intents and purposes, legal in my state. So long as I do not commit an assault with them or something (Which, I won't. These are only a last resort item) I like to talk my way out of situations as well, but I'm sure you know that doesn't always work.

People, I have to take the same route every time I go to and from work. I could go a much, much longer route all the way around the city and then approach my place of work from the opposite side. Of course this runs with the risks of what normally happens when you walk dozens of miles in a day. I could go another route as well, but it is much worse than the one I currently take.

So I'm stuck with this one route. If I get attacked or mugged *again* I cannot afford to look weak or to lay there and accept the beating. Because the next time I come through? it'l just happen all over again. I respect people's choice to be pacifist and all but there's a certain point where I consider those types idiots. To be clear, I'd rather die than have people walk all over me like that. That is why I only got bullied once in all my school years, then people learned not to mess with me (that "bully" also never harmed anyone again because I scared him straight I guess)

And so if the need arises, if I cannot run away or talk my way out of it. I will fight, and I will win if I can. And if I lose, then at least I gave self preservation a shot.

JohnG

I understand, but sap gloves are mostly one and one. Pepper spray can be used on multiple targets at once. And, belive me, pepper spray leaves a longer lesson then the sap's. :coffee: Coffee? It's French roast

Zayl

Yeah this is true. However I have seen a few unfortunate cases where someone who was hit with pepper spray was not only not incapacitated, it actually enraged him and made him more dangerous (I'm assuming because civilian pepper spray is weaker than the police stuff?) I might buy myself some of the anti-bear pepper spray they sell down at Gander Mountain.

ThailandTom

tazer.....

Jeffrey

lightsaber....