Proper length of meditation?

lotuspadma

Most of the time that I've been meditating (most days in a year or so), I would do it for as long as I wanted, or could handle. I've progressed very slowly. However, I've now set a minimum of 15 minutes of meditation without moving around like I used to. I followed what this article said:
" Also one must ensure that the body is balanced and comfortable before meditating — this can be done by moving the body around while seated — for once started the body should not be moved."
"The time that one gives to meditation must depend upon the individual although less than 15-20 minutes is of little benefit unless the mind is very well concentrated."
Source: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/khantipalo/wheel206.html
This has made me feel constrained and uneasy from the very beggining of the meditation. I do metta first, which is not so bad. Walking meditation then, which is also okay. But once I sit down to do samatha, it feels like I've been trapped inside my own body. The only good thing I feel is that it got slightly easier to focus on the breath. Yet later on I start feeling tired, weird, spaced out, anxious. What I want to know is: should I get back to what I was doing, with no body or time restraint, or am I only doing it properly now, but need to accept this as a normal part of practice?

Jeffrey

I think you should experiment. I don't know if you can power through the discomfort. I would recognize that certain things will be individual. I definitely wouldn't feel bad about meditating 10 or 5 minutes especially if you are trying to work up to more. That's what I am doing, 10 minutes, but I hope to raise it to thirty. Since you are having bad symptoms afterwords I would suspect you may need to stay at 10 for awhile. I don't believe that meditations purpose is to create certain states of mind, personally. 5 minutes with a freshness might be better than 30 if at that level you hate your meditation and just going through the motions.

Well that's my best answer. Hope it helps and let me know if you want elaboration or clarification on a question.

federica

As long as you feel is comfortable, plus 3 minutes.

BhikkhuJayasara

federica said:

As long as you feel is comfortable, plus 3 minutes.

Federica Sadu Sadu you basically beat me to it.

There is no proper length nor should there ever be one. If you are kind to yourself and just allow the length to grow on it's own in it's own time, then you will be doing good practice. Forcing a time every day is rarely ever a good thing. I'm not even a big fan of being forced to sit for hours at retreats, however I see the huge benefit I gained from that, breaking through my ego, and retreats are special short term events.

BonsaiDoug

While it's true there is no proper length, experiment with slightly longer sittings; work into it. For me, something happened at the 20 minute mark. I found it much easier to sit calmly and more focused. There was just something about passing that 20 minute mark that made a world of difference. Try it.

If you use a timer, simply add one minute every week. For me, longer sittings are much more enjoyable and I seem to benefit more from them. I'm currently at 40 minutes for my morning sitting with the goal of one hour.

I should add that I have the luxury of being retired, and I realize not everyone can dedicate long sittings to their daily routine. Work with what works for you now.

BhikkhuJayasara

BonsaiDoug said:

While it's true there is no proper length, experiment with slightly longer sittings; work into it. For me, something happened at the 20 minute mark. I found it much easier to sit calmly and more focused. There was just something about passing that 20 minute mark that made a world of difference. Try it.

If you use a timer, simply add one minute every week. For me, longer sittings are much more enjoyable and I seem to benefit more from them. I'm currently at 40 minutes for my morning sitting with the goal of one hour.

I should add that I have the luxury of being retired, and I realize not everyone can dedicate long sittings to their daily routine. Work with what works for you now.

I do around 40 minutes a day walking and sitting. When I started meditation my second go around I just would sit for a few minutes, as long as my body and mind were comfortable with it, over the past few years that has grown. I still have issues with sitting meditating over 20 minutes and I probably have only once sat down at the beginning of an hour session and stayed in meditation the whole hour.

how

Hey Lotuspadma
Two thoughts about your posting.

Meditation is the art of being present. In sitting meditation, the distractions to being present are comparatively illuminated by our own physical stillness. Setting an arbitrary time and length for a formal sitting can help us face things that we formally found ways of avoiding.

And....

Being present and a formal posture are not always the same thing.

lobster

Present Being as a formal posture and you can meditate. Anything else is just sitting around.
. . . Welcome back how . . . :clap:

BonsaiDoug

how said:

[…] Setting an arbitrary time and length for a formal sitting can help us face things that we formally found ways of avoiding.

I like that! :thumbsup:

DairyLama

lotuspadma said:

But once I sit down to do samatha, it feels like I've been trapped inside my own body. The only good thing I feel is that it got slightly easier to focus on the breath. Yet later on I start feeling tired, weird, spaced out, anxious. What I want to know is: should I get back to what I was doing, with no body or time restraint, or am I only doing it properly now, but need to accept this as a normal part of practice?

Samatha can be quite challenging because we come up against the hindrances - are you familiar with them?

lamaramadingdong

From the very end of your toes to the tippy top of your head.

lotuspadma

Yeah, I believe all the hindrances are at work in my mind when I meditate. Aversion, specially. Guess I should stick to 15 min, it's not that much.

lotuspadma

When I got to it, I decided to give it a try and let my mind come out of meditation when it wanted to. It lasted for 18 min then! It's definitely not the length bothering me, but the hindrances. If you're not overdoing it, it's always them!

Invincible_summer

@lotuspadma

Unless it's great physical discomfort (i.e. pain), I think "just sit with it" is the only advice I would give for something like anxiety/feeling "weird."

Unless you're planning on heading to an intensive retreat where you're required to sit at length, I wouldn't worry too much about how long your meditation sessions are. Or how "good" they are for that matter. Meditation is about gaining insight and awareness to bring into our everyday lives - the times when we are anxious, worried, etc are when we need to be centred the most. So sit with your discomforts/"hindrances" and see where that takes you. Lotus flowers grow out of the mud.

shadowleaver

I do 30 minute sessions. In my sangha it is the same duration. On retreats it's multiple cycles of 30 minute sitting followed by 10 minute walking.

footiam

lotuspadma said:

Most of the time that I've been meditating (most days in a year or so), I would do it for as long as I wanted, or could handle. I've progressed very slowly. However, I've now set a minimum of 15 minutes of meditation without moving around like I used to. I followed what this article said:
" Also one must ensure that the body is balanced and comfortable before meditating — this can be done by moving the body around while seated — for once started the body should not be moved."
"The time that one gives to meditation must depend upon the individual although less than 15-20 minutes is of little benefit unless the mind is very well concentrated."
Source: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/khantipalo/wheel206.html
This has made me feel constrained and uneasy from the very beggining of the meditation. I do metta first, which is not so bad. Walking meditation then, which is also okay. But once I sit down to do samatha, it feels like I've been trapped inside my own body. The only good thing I feel is that it got slightly easier to focus on the breath. Yet later on I start feeling tired, weird, spaced out, anxious. What I want to know is: should I get back to what I was doing, with no body or time restraint, or am I only doing it properly now, but need to accept this as a normal part of practice?

Even though I have heard someone said, 30 minutes at least, I think it is the quality that is important. If meditating is choking you, stop. Don't just follow what is written in a book like some kind of manual. You are an individual and different from others; very special in your own way. You probably have heard there are thousands of mantras to go around and it is for different people with different temperament. Sometimes, a person should not try too hard lest it becomes a hazard. Then, probably, you are not treading the middl;e path.

BonsaiDoug

footiam said:

Even though I have heard someone said, 30 minutes at least, I think it is the quality that is important. If meditating is choking you, stop.

I'm confused. Isn't the point (one of them) of meditation to train and calm the mind? How does one do that without overcoming the difficulties? How does one do that by quitting when the going gets tough? Isn't that just avoiding things?

BhikkhuJayasara

BonsaiDoug said:

footiam said:

Even though I have heard someone said, 30 minutes at least, I think it is the quality that is important. If meditating is choking you, stop.

I'm confused. Isn't the point (one of them) of meditation to train and calm the mind? How does one do that without overcoming the difficulties? How does one do that by quitting when the going gets tough? Isn't that just avoiding things?

this is better done in a natural manner. You can push the boundaries but if you are not ready to face them it will be an utterly negative experience. When you are ready, you put forth effort in the attempt. ( you should never FORCE unless you know you are ready, and even then only with wisdom and not out of ego)

when I first started meditation everything I read was " follow the breath, sit up straight, 30 minutes a day, bla bla"... the worst type of advice imo for someone brand new to meditation. It really soured me and made meditation a negative experience. When I began to learn to let go and be kind to my body and mind.. I started back.

If I couldn't follow the breath? thats ok just observe all phenomenon. I made the determination that no matter how long I sit, even if its for 30 seconds.. when my body and mind have had enough I stop. Gradually this time has risen and I am at peace with my practice, rather then fighting it.

Jeffrey

If we didn't drift off we wouldn't learn the nature of mind to diffuse and then focus in clarity. If we couldn't drift off a new thought could never come. It's how we do any activity, not just meditation.

From a practical standpoint drifting off gets worse if we get agitated and upset. In that case agitation either increases or sloughs off to dullness unless we just let go of the frustration.

As far as "Yet later on I start feeling tired, weird, spaced out, anxious.".. I am not sure what to say. I would take heart that it is just thinking and you are safe. And then remember all the Buddhists who have gone before and faced this. Be gentle but don't give up on sittting meditation.

how

Most of the meditations described here only unearth whatever the practitioner is able to address.

Threading ones way through the thousands of possible training possibilities are just part of the meditation practise that all of us have traversed to be here.

But..

Giving the captaincy of the ship over to ones meditation has certainly brought about my most interesting travels.

lotuspadma

I'm definitely settled on meditating as long as I can, not setting a fixed duration for it. It is much better. Sometimes 15 minutes is too long and you wear out your mind, and sometimes it is too little and you get out of it unwillingly and with difficulty from moving from mental objects to physical objects so suddenly. At least, that is my experience. Also, I learned another thing: monks aren't infallible as most are not enlightened!

lobster

I make no apologies for posting this link - again.
http://www.lorinroche.com/meditation-faq/meditationfaq.html

It's not the length, it's what you do with it.
. . . Now where have I heard that before

Kind discipline, so simple, so why not be at ease . . .

lotuspadma

I don't mean to offend you, lobster, or the author of this site, but I've encountered a lot of misguidedness in that guide. They dismiss Buddhism as something feudal, patriarchal and life-denying. They seem to think that it is for souless sheeps. Has he never heard of Ajahn Brahm? He considers one of the 'dangers' of meditation to become too unnatached. Goodness!! You might even become a monk/nun! Watch out! The greater danger is in attachment, which they should discourage, not incourage. Still, the silver lining is that by taking this overly flexible guide and the overly rigid guide I was following, I've managed to come up with a routine that is more or less a middle path! Another good thing about your source is that they taught me to trust what I think it's best for myself more and not be so reliant on advices from monks. What worked for them, will not work for everyone else.

lobster

They dismiss Buddhism as something feudal, patriarchal and life-denying.

A lot of it is. There is no reason for us to be feudal, patriarchal or life denying. A lot of Buddhism is up to date, women friendly and life enhancing. There is no reason for us to be anything less than a Buddhist . . . Whatever we feel that entails. We have a big raft . . .

lotuspadma

Okay, that was a bit hard to understand, but I think you're saying that some parts of Buddhism are like that, others not. If so, I agree. That's why I don't like generalizations like the author does.

Cory

I normally perform japa meditation. and then after the five to six minutes it normally takes me to count 108, I meditate for 10 minutes after that. My 15 minute exercise works perfect for me, the way I feel after I meditate is indescribable, but like others are saying, you should experiment. Find what is right for you personally.

lotuspadma

You're right, thank you for your input, Cory.

lobster

Okay, that was a bit hard to understand

Let me put it into a meditative context. I was working part time, giving me a lot of time to spend at a feudal based temple. The head was a woman. People came and went. There was formal practice and somewhere quiet to sit. Sometimes I sat and chatted with people, sometimes work needed doing, there was plenty of time to sit in the shrine room.

All of it is practice. I would sit in the sunny shrine room and sometimes the thought of what I would rather be doing would arise. As I contemplated this arising I knew I was where I wanted to be. Sitting was life enhancing. Waiting for the bus was practice. Sitting on the bus was practice.

Practice is not how long you sit. Practice is what you do in your life.

lotuspadma

Very nicely put. That's something I took a long time to fully understand. Of course formal practice is important, but you have to go out there and live in the world as well. Indeed all is Dhamma.