Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
What about the judge, jury and lawyers that uphold, hand out and recommend death sentences? They are culpable too, aren't they? Granted a jury person wouldn't be considered a livelihood, but in death penalty cases they are always asked if they could hand it out if needed. What about defense attorneys who get criminals they know are guilty off the hook and it leads to them committing more crimes?
I think you could dig far enough in literally almost every single possible career and come up with reasons why it doesn't meet Buddhist qualifications. I did tech support for a long time. Pretty benign, I helped people a lot. But I worked for a company that engineers food that makes people unhealthy, and I helped them do their "job" more efficiently. I also helped a global company get rich and expand to other countries where they could pay their employees less and increase the company's profits. Can anyone really think of any paying job where if you look far enough, it can, or could have, negative affects on people or beings somewhere?
I watched the movie Samsara today. Thinking about this reminds me a lot of several of the jobs featured in that.
What about the judge, jury and lawyers that uphold, hand out and recommend death sentences? They are culpable too, aren't they? Granted a jury person wouldn't be considered a livelihood, but in death penalty cases they are always asked if they could hand it out if needed. What about defense attorneys who get criminals they know are guilty off the hook and it leads to them committing more crimes?
I think you could dig far enough in literally almost every single possible career and come up with reasons why it doesn't meet Buddhist qualifications. I did tech support for a long time. Pretty benign, I helped people a lot. But I worked for a company that engineers food that makes people unhealthy, and I helped them do their "job" more efficiently. I also helped a global company get rich and expand to other countries where they could pay their employees less and increase the company's profits. Can anyone really think of any paying job where if you look far enough, it can, or could have, negative affects on people or beings somewhere?
I watched the movie Samsara today. Thinking about this reminds me a lot of several of the jobs featured in that.
I had the same thought, that if you look closely enough into most jobs/careers you can find a way to pick at it and put it in the pile of being of wrong livelihood. As for the Judge and jury etc, personally I would say yes, they are putting someone to death, at the end of the day that is killing a living being no matter what they have done, and if you are part of that cause then you are part of that cause.. Like people who serve in the armed forces, even people who work behind a desk in the army, they are a cog in a system that makes it ok to go and kill because it is for the nations best interest :screwy:
I love both Samsara and Baraka. I wasn't entirely prepared for the differing feel of Samsara, it took me a bit by surprise. Baraka, even though it had conflicting images too, seemed more like a celebration of the web of life and Samsara felt, well, like Samsara, LOL.
Oh so we do share a similar sense of humour in some respects, basically not a very tasteful one :P That is another one, a comedian, that could easily be seen as wrong livelihood.
The intoxicant part confuses me. Would it be wrong for a medical marijuana patient to sell to the dispensary, for the owner to provide others relief through this substance? I say no, but im sure a perspective based soley on this idea of abstanation would differ from my own. Any thoughts?
Generally as I understand things that are needed for a true medical reason are pretty much excused from the "rules." Most people who use medical marijuana for legit reasons aren't using it to get high anyhow.
The intoxicant part confuses me. Would it be wrong for a medical marijuana patient to sell to the dispensary, for the owner to provide others relief through this substance? I say no, but im sure a perspective based soley on this idea of abstanation would differ from my own. Any thoughts?
Is it wrong for a pharmacist to sell legal 'drugs' to people? If they use those drugs in excess they can certainly get high from them. But the fact that millions of people misuse and abuse medicines/legal drugs to get high, well, that doesn't make it the pharmacist's fault, does it? Same thing with alcohol... most religions have no restrictions on the use of alcohol- in excess or not. Would selling alcohol/bartending or working in a brewery be one of those no-no jobs for a Buddhist? I don't see why, unless everyone is expected to live by rules of Buddhist beliefs. And just because you sell it, doesn't mean you have to do it yourself.
As a side note, @karasti, if the vast majority of medical marijuana users were brutally and completely honest... they would admit that in fact they DO enjoy the high they get when using marijuana for their medical issues. I know several legal medical marijuana users, (as well as being one myself, soon) and I know for a fact that if they could somehow take the 'high' out of medical marijuana -- which they can, it's called "Marinol" -- probably 80% of the MM patients wouldn't take it. Most people don't understand that the feeling "high" part of medical marijuana plays an important part in the overall pain relief and feeling of physical 'well being'. After a while it's very easy to remain clear headed enough and function just fine for daily activities on MM. Shouldn't go out and drive or anything, but you shouldn't do that no matter what kind of pain killers or pharmaceutical narcotics you're taking, either....
The intoxicant part confuses me. Would it be wrong for a medical marijuana patient to sell to the dispensary, for the owner to provide others relief through this substance? I say no, but im sure a perspective based soley on this idea of abstanation would differ from my own. Any thoughts?
Is it wrong for a pharmacist to sell legal 'drugs' to people? If they use those drugs in excess they can certainly get high from them. But the fact that millions of people misuse and abuse medicines/legal drugs to get high, well, that doesn't make it the pharmacist's fault, does it? Same thing with alcohol... most religions have no restrictions on the use of alcohol- in excess or not. Would selling alcohol/bartending or working in a brewery be one of those no-no jobs for a Buddhist? I don't see why, unless everyone is expected to live by rules of Buddhist beliefs. And just because you sell it, doesn't mean you have to do it yourself.
As a side note, @karasti, if the vast majority of medical marijuana users were brutally and completely honest... they would admit that in fact they DO enjoy the high they get when using marijuana for their medical issues. I know several legal medical marijuana users, (as well as being one myself, soon) and I know for a fact that if they could somehow take the 'high' out of medical marijuana -- which they can, it's called "Marinol" -- probably 80% of the MM patients wouldn't take it. Most people don't understand that the feeling "high" part of medical marijuana plays an important part in the overall pain relief and feeling of physical 'well being'. After a while it's very easy to remain clear headed enough and function just fine for daily activities on MM. Shouldn't go out and drive or anything, but you shouldn't do that no matter what kind of pain killers or pharmaceutical narcotics you're taking, either....
As I live in Thailand I can purchase a lot of things without a prescription, I am in fact friends with two sisters who own a pharmacy where I get my valium from. I have been diagnosed with 2 anxiety disorders back in the UK and here I tried going through the legit way but they put me on an SSRI which did nothing whatsoever and was expensive, so I go to them and get cheap valium. I buy 100 ten mg pills at a time and I am at a place mentally nowadays where I have self control and don't eat 40 a day lol. Is what she doing unethical, probably, it is illegal as well but it is what it is.
The medical weed situation, I don't know why doctors allow people to smoke it as smoking anything is pretty bad for you, why don't they suggest that the patients make cakes and eat it? it lasts longer and has a stronger effect.
I don't want to hijack the thread and turn it into a medical marijuana campaign but smoking marijuana has been proven NOT to be anywhere close to as damaging to the lungs as smoking cigarettes. Studies just don't find serious lung issues amongst long-time marijuana smokers. As a matter of fact there have been some studies that *suggest* there might be a correlation between smoking marijuana and resistance to some lung diseases, etc. Medical marijuana pts can also buy edible products with MM in it. However, it's very hard to control the dosage throughout the product and/or determine how much should be eaten to get the desired medicinal effects. I know first hand because I had a very "scary" situation after eating a teeny tiny corner of a medical marijuana brownie, once. I literally could not move off the sofa for more than 2 1/2 hours! Smoking it is much more controllable.
I don't want to hijack the thread and turn it into a medical marijuana campaign but smoking marijuana has been proven NOT to be anywhere close to as damaging to the lungs as smoking cigarettes. Studies just don't find serious lung issues amongst long-time marijuana smokers. As a matter of fact there have been some studies that *suggest* there might be a correlation between smoking marijuana and resistance to some lung diseases, etc. Medical marijuana pts can also buy edible products with MM in it. However, it's very hard to control the dosage throughout the product and/or determine how much should be eaten to get the desired medicinal effects. I know first hand because I had a very "scary" situation after eating a teeny tiny corner of a medical marijuana brownie, once. I literally could not move off the sofa for more than 2 1/2 hours! Smoking it is much more controllable.
I will leave my last post on the subject as well. I smoked weed from the age of 14-20 and have done a few times since then as well, but I use to smoke daily. I noticed that after a couple of years I was unable to run as well cross-country with my dad and I never took up smoking cigarettes as a habit. But you are right, edibles get you high as hell and for a long time, but if you put just the right amount into a recipe, you will be able to find a therapeutic dose I am sure. Unlike my old housemate who one day decided to make a cake with an ounce in it and rum, I had two slices and was floored for half of the day. I guess the best way would be vaporizing it so you only burn the THC and not the vegetable matter which is what may lead to lung related diseases.
Didnt mean to put out the vibe of hating on cannabis, just wanted to see what others thought based on the dharma, as i would like to pursue a job in that field later on in life
@Maryanne thanks for that information, makes perfect sense. It's not legal in my state, so the only people I know who smoke it are the so-called "criminals."
I imagine it has to do with intent, as always. If you are working in a state where it's legal and following the legal processes and you are doing it to help people as a pharmacist (or grower for the health dispensaries) as opposed to trying to pull off a Half Baked style heist, then that's different, in my mind, than randomly breaking laws and selling it illegally solely for the profit for yourself.
As I live in Thailand I can purchase a lot of things without a prescription, I am in fact friends with two sisters who own a pharmacy where I get my valium from. I have been diagnosed with 2 anxiety disorders back in the UK and here I tried going through the legit way but they put me on an SSRI which did nothing whatsoever and was expensive, so I go to them and get cheap valium. I buy 100 ten mg pills at a time and I am at a place mentally nowadays where I have self control and don't eat 40 a day lol. Is what she doing unethical, probably, it is illegal as well but it is what it is.
The medical weed situation, I don't know why doctors allow people to smoke it as smoking anything is pretty bad for you, why don't they suggest that the patients make cakes and eat it? it lasts longer and has a stronger effect.
It was a relief while living in Thailand not to have to run to a doctor's office and pay for an office call just for a new prescription for a (for example) blood pressure medicine I had been taking for a decade, which was working perfectly well, and I knew would be prescribed again. A couple of months ago, back here in the States, I needed refills on all my meds. I had to go have a "medication review" appointment with my doctor. It only cost me $25, but it cost my insurance another $100. What did the doctor do? Asked me if each of my meds was working well. Period. New prescriptions. What a waste of time and money.
I don't see a pharmacist's job in Thailand or anywhere else to be a wrong livelihood. But of course, an individual pharmacist can be guilty of wrong livelihood. Prescribing drugs illegally makes it wrong livelihood, as in the case you cited. When I went to the Thai pharmacy one day for a stomach medicine, and the pharmacist tried to steer me to a different medication, saying "same thing, same thing", he was wrong. It had the same effect, but it was a totally different chemical formula. That made it wrong livelihood. When you go to a pharmacy in Thailand for some appropriate medicine, but the pharmacist tries to push viagra on you, that is wrong livelihood.
But it is unfair to assume that because some pharmacists are committing wrong livelihood, that the profession of pharmacist is wrong livelihood.
Yeah my 10 year old has to go 4 times a year for "med checks"in addition to his normal physical. $160 each appointment for the same thing "good, glad the meds work, let's do the same thing in 90 days." Our diabetic kid has to see a specialist and every appointment with him (also every 3 months, for the rest of his life) is $465 plus labwork. Thankfully we have good insurance, but I so feel for those who don't. They don't get proper care and their health, and lives, suffer for it.
Sorry, derailing again a little. Why doesn't the US get a health system in place like the UK and Canada has? As a tax payer of a country, surely you should be entitled to have free medical treatment if you are sick to any degree, especially in the land of the so called free..
Sorry, derailing again a little. Why doesn't the US get a health system in place like the UK and Canada has? As a tax payer of a country, surely you should be entitled to have free medical treatment if you are sick to any degree, especially in the land of the so called free..
Because in America, "socialism" is a 4 letter word. We pride ourselves on a "pick yourself up by your bootstraps" mentality, never mind than so many people don't even have boots, as the saying goes. People already find loopholes and other ways out of paying the taxes they pay now, increasing them exponentially to have a truly social medicine system will go over like a turd in a punch bowl. We'd make a lot of progress on our economy if they simply required the huge profit turning companies to pay the taxes they are already supposed to pay. Some of them should be paying closer to 30% in taxes and pay less than 10%.
Just to be fair, although I don't think health care should be considered a "hand out", but rather a way that all Americans can share in the bounty of this nation...
...I think it is sometimes fair to question some "handouts", which are okay when an individual makes a choice to give a "handout", but not when the government takes taxpayer money to give a "handout".
Comments
I think you could dig far enough in literally almost every single possible career and come up with reasons why it doesn't meet Buddhist qualifications. I did tech support for a long time. Pretty benign, I helped people a lot. But I worked for a company that engineers food that makes people unhealthy, and I helped them do their "job" more efficiently. I also helped a global company get rich and expand to other countries where they could pay their employees less and increase the company's profits. Can anyone really think of any paying job where if you look far enough, it can, or could have, negative affects on people or beings somewhere?
I watched the movie Samsara today. Thinking about this reminds me a lot of several of the jobs featured in that.
I also watched Samsara very recently
That is another one, a comedian, that could easily be seen as wrong livelihood.
Same thing with alcohol... most religions have no restrictions on the use of alcohol- in excess or not. Would selling alcohol/bartending or working in a brewery be one of those no-no jobs for a Buddhist?
I don't see why, unless everyone is expected to live by rules of Buddhist beliefs. And just because you sell it, doesn't mean you have to do it yourself.
As a side note, @karasti, if the vast majority of medical marijuana users were brutally and completely honest... they would admit that in fact they DO enjoy the high they get when using marijuana for their medical issues.
I know several legal medical marijuana users, (as well as being one myself, soon) and I know for a fact that if they could somehow take the 'high' out of medical marijuana -- which they can, it's called "Marinol" -- probably 80% of the MM patients wouldn't take it.
Most people don't understand that the feeling "high" part of medical marijuana plays an important part in the overall pain relief and feeling of physical 'well being'. After a while it's very easy to remain clear headed enough and function just fine for daily activities on MM. Shouldn't go out and drive or anything, but you shouldn't do that no matter what kind of pain killers or pharmaceutical narcotics you're taking, either....
The medical weed situation, I don't know why doctors allow people to smoke it as smoking anything is pretty bad for you, why don't they suggest that the patients make cakes and eat it? it lasts longer and has a stronger effect.
I don't want to hijack the thread and turn it into a medical marijuana campaign but smoking marijuana has been proven NOT to be anywhere close to as damaging to the lungs as smoking cigarettes. Studies just don't find serious lung issues amongst long-time marijuana smokers. As a matter of fact there have been some studies that *suggest* there might be a correlation between smoking marijuana and resistance to some lung diseases, etc.
Medical marijuana pts can also buy edible products with MM in it. However, it's very hard to control the dosage throughout the product and/or determine how much should be eaten to get the desired medicinal effects. I know first hand because I had a very "scary" situation after eating a teeny tiny corner of a medical marijuana brownie, once.
I literally could not move off the sofa for more than 2 1/2 hours! Smoking it is much more controllable.
I guess the best way would be vaporizing it so you only burn the THC and not the vegetable matter which is what may lead to lung related diseases.
Anyway enough of the skunk talk, back to topic
I imagine it has to do with intent, as always. If you are working in a state where it's legal and following the legal processes and you are doing it to help people as a pharmacist (or grower for the health dispensaries) as opposed to trying to pull off a Half Baked style heist, then that's different, in my mind, than randomly breaking laws and selling it illegally solely for the profit for yourself.
I don't see a pharmacist's job in Thailand or anywhere else to be a wrong livelihood. But of course, an individual pharmacist can be guilty of wrong livelihood. Prescribing drugs illegally makes it wrong livelihood, as in the case you cited. When I went to the Thai pharmacy one day for a stomach medicine, and the pharmacist tried to steer me to a different medication, saying "same thing, same thing", he was wrong. It had the same effect, but it was a totally different chemical formula. That made it wrong livelihood. When you go to a pharmacy in Thailand for some appropriate medicine, but the pharmacist tries to push viagra on you, that is wrong livelihood.
But it is unfair to assume that because some pharmacists are committing wrong livelihood, that the profession of pharmacist is wrong livelihood.
I think the effort is coming at an incredibly bad time when the federal budget is already is serious trouble due to debt.
BINGO! You took the words right outa my finger tips.....
...I think it is sometimes fair to question some "handouts", which are okay when an individual makes a choice to give a "handout", but not when the government takes taxpayer money to give a "handout".