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Desire - Again
ThailandTom
Veteran
I have another few points to bring up about desire, this is really causing me to hit a wall here as I am kind of getting it but at the same time it seems almost impossible to achieve, although I am reminded of what Ajahn Chah said about Nirvana, that you must not strive or desire to reach such a state of mind to actually get there.
Anyway firstly I am going to pull a summary out of the book 'The Handbook For Mankind'
'In short, to know "what is what" in the ultimate sense is to see everything as impermanent, unsatisfactory, and devoid of selfhood. When we really know this, the mind comes to see things in such a way that it does not cling to get or to be anything. But if we have to become involved in things in the ways known as 'having' and 'being,' then we become involved intelligently, motivated by insight, and not desire. Acting thus, we remain free from suffering'
Ok this is something I can agree with 100% and I understand, maybe others may have differing opinions but from what I can see it makes sense and it is crystal clear to me.
However, he then goes on to talk about desires related to grasping and clinging, and even the desire to do good ultimately results in suffering. He reads,
'The lowest forms of evil originate in and are powered by desires to get and to be; milder forms of evil consist of actions less strongly motivated by desire; and all goodness consists of action based on the finest, most tenuous of desire, the desire to get or to be, on a good level. Even in its highest forms, good is based on desire which, however, is so fine and tenuous that people don't consider it in any way a bad thing. The fact is, however, that good action can never bring complete freedom from suffering. A person who has become completely free from desire, that is to say an Arahant, is one who ceases acting on desire and has become incapable of doing evil. His actions lie outside the categories of good and evil. His mind is free and has transcended the limitations of good and evil. Thus he is completely free of suffering.'
Here I do have a little confusion, is he suggesting that to fully awaken the mind you must free yourself of desire to commit good intentions as well as bad intentions? How does that work, how do you do anything virtuous without the desire for it to be good? How do you eliminate in a thought process and thus a following action of virtue any desire to do so?
Lastly there is a paragraph again about being totally free from suffering I would like to share, again it comes from the grasping and clinging part of desire. From what I can gather, Buddhadasa Bikkhu is a Buddhist who seems to believe in there being only one way to liberation and that is a strict and hardcore form of practice. Personally I have held this opinion myself as well, of course you can help aspects of your life and turn things around by using the dharma, but to be totally free I feel you need to take certain steps.
'The danger of sensuality lies in the power of sensual attachment. For this reason the Buddha reckoned clinging to sensuality as the primary form of attachment. It is a real world problem. Whether the world is to be completely destroyed. or whatever is to happen, is bound to depend on this very sensual clinging. It behoves us to examine ourselves to find out what ways we are attached to sensuality and how firmly, and whether it is not perhaps within our power to give it up. Speaking in worldly terms, attachment to sensuality is a very good thing. It conduces to family, love, diligence and energy in the search for wealth and fame, and so on. But if looked at from the spiritual point of view, it is seen to be the secret entrance to suffering and torment. Spiritually speaking, attachment to sensuality is something to be kept under control. And if all suffering is to be eliminated, sensual attachment has to be done away with completely.'
Previously in the book he has also spoken about how the family and children become traps of suffering and torment and only when one eliminates such aspects of ones life can one be totally fee from suffering.
Now I have to ask this, I am in the process (a long one at that) of starting up my own graphic design business with a friend of mine from university. How can I go about something like this without the desire to do it properly and succeed for example? Is it something that is actually impossible to do?
Anyway firstly I am going to pull a summary out of the book 'The Handbook For Mankind'
'In short, to know "what is what" in the ultimate sense is to see everything as impermanent, unsatisfactory, and devoid of selfhood. When we really know this, the mind comes to see things in such a way that it does not cling to get or to be anything. But if we have to become involved in things in the ways known as 'having' and 'being,' then we become involved intelligently, motivated by insight, and not desire. Acting thus, we remain free from suffering'
Ok this is something I can agree with 100% and I understand, maybe others may have differing opinions but from what I can see it makes sense and it is crystal clear to me.
However, he then goes on to talk about desires related to grasping and clinging, and even the desire to do good ultimately results in suffering. He reads,
'The lowest forms of evil originate in and are powered by desires to get and to be; milder forms of evil consist of actions less strongly motivated by desire; and all goodness consists of action based on the finest, most tenuous of desire, the desire to get or to be, on a good level. Even in its highest forms, good is based on desire which, however, is so fine and tenuous that people don't consider it in any way a bad thing. The fact is, however, that good action can never bring complete freedom from suffering. A person who has become completely free from desire, that is to say an Arahant, is one who ceases acting on desire and has become incapable of doing evil. His actions lie outside the categories of good and evil. His mind is free and has transcended the limitations of good and evil. Thus he is completely free of suffering.'
Here I do have a little confusion, is he suggesting that to fully awaken the mind you must free yourself of desire to commit good intentions as well as bad intentions? How does that work, how do you do anything virtuous without the desire for it to be good? How do you eliminate in a thought process and thus a following action of virtue any desire to do so?
Lastly there is a paragraph again about being totally free from suffering I would like to share, again it comes from the grasping and clinging part of desire. From what I can gather, Buddhadasa Bikkhu is a Buddhist who seems to believe in there being only one way to liberation and that is a strict and hardcore form of practice. Personally I have held this opinion myself as well, of course you can help aspects of your life and turn things around by using the dharma, but to be totally free I feel you need to take certain steps.
'The danger of sensuality lies in the power of sensual attachment. For this reason the Buddha reckoned clinging to sensuality as the primary form of attachment. It is a real world problem. Whether the world is to be completely destroyed. or whatever is to happen, is bound to depend on this very sensual clinging. It behoves us to examine ourselves to find out what ways we are attached to sensuality and how firmly, and whether it is not perhaps within our power to give it up. Speaking in worldly terms, attachment to sensuality is a very good thing. It conduces to family, love, diligence and energy in the search for wealth and fame, and so on. But if looked at from the spiritual point of view, it is seen to be the secret entrance to suffering and torment. Spiritually speaking, attachment to sensuality is something to be kept under control. And if all suffering is to be eliminated, sensual attachment has to be done away with completely.'
Previously in the book he has also spoken about how the family and children become traps of suffering and torment and only when one eliminates such aspects of ones life can one be totally fee from suffering.
Now I have to ask this, I am in the process (a long one at that) of starting up my own graphic design business with a friend of mine from university. How can I go about something like this without the desire to do it properly and succeed for example? Is it something that is actually impossible to do?
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Comments
I think you're kind of at cross purposes here. Starting a business and succeeding in life is, from a strict Buddhist point of view, a worldly activity. The passages and teachings you are referring to are about attaining liberation and total freedom from samsara.
To me taking these teachings on liberation so literally and trying to apply them to everyday efforts is a bit misplaced. If your goal is nirvana then become a monk and pursue that goal. If your goal is to lead a happy and productive life then use the teachings in a way that will aid you in doing that.
In this case I think an appropriate level of desire would be something like wanting to earn a living and find some work that gives you a sense of fulfillment. An unhealthy desire would be to get rich at any cost, (ie. plagarism, doing harm upon any competition, etc.)
The Bhagavad-Gita's section on karmayoga discusses how the most pure action is one that is done without expectations.
I don't know how a person could realistically practice this fully, but the idea is that expectations (a type of desire) can screw with our actions and sour the good intentions we may have had originally. With enough cultivation and development of the 10 Perfections, for example, perhaps one could get closer to purity of action.
Regarding your graphic design business... I think "just do it" is an appropriate (and cheesy) slogan. Don't think too hard about being "successful," don't spend energy on "what ifs." Just take each client's work as your meditation in the present moment, doing the best you can in that moment. The results will speak for themselves.
If you want to live a life of worldly means then you can use the dharma to help when times are hard or to improve your life and other peoples lives in general.
Precisely, our overriding concern is our livelihood, although we should try to incorporate the teachings into our daily fabric But we are not monks, so we should not try to live as one.
And then after seeing the true nature you can let go of the obsessiveness of wishing and goals. If you have a light heart about your goals and react playfully there is nothing harmful of doing art and making business relationships. It's 'right livelyhood' dude!