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How to do Vipassana/Insight Meditation?

TheEccentricTheEccentric Hampshire, UK Veteran
edited March 2013 in Meditation
I have heard of this practice a lot before but still am unsure of how to do it exactly, I have read about it a lot on the internet but so far each method described on each page I have read all seem to be different, I have no idea what is the actual method for it.

Comments

  • lobsterlobster Crusty Veteran
    One of the things we all tend to do is breath, unless we live in the matrix . . .
    Morpheus: Do you believe that my being stronger or faster has anything to do with my muscles in this place? Do you think that's air you're breathing now?

    Bringing the attentive awareness to aspects of the breath will deepen it, whether done formally or continually. Takes time, takes practice.
    A yogic practice, alternate nostril breathing can be done to start a formal sit. You can bring the attention to the breath whilst walking or exercising.

    This free course, very much starts with breath meditation . . .
    http://aromeditation.org/
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    edited March 2013
    Do NOT attempt to practice Vipassana from written instructions..particularly on the internet where people might be irresponsible enough to try to instruct others.
    Find your local centre where you can be taught hands on.
    With Vipassana ( which differs from Anapanasati ) there are no ifs or buts..that instruction is ESSENTIAL.

    Otherwise the result at best will be that you will just go in circles...at best. Frankly it would be like following d.i.y instructions for self dentistry. It will end in tears.
    BeeHurstblu3ree
  • GlowGlow Veteran
    edited March 2013
    Citta said:

    With Vipassana ( which differs from Anapanasati )

    Could you explain more what you mean by this? Different people make different distinctions between the two (and some make no distinction*), so I'm interested to know your perspective.

    * From my understanding, anapanasati is traditionally thought of as the method/practice, while vipassana and samatha are aspects that arise out of this practice. Ajahn Chah and others in the Thai forest tradition would often make the point that the two are inseparable. Someone on another forum posted this except from Ajahn Brahm's Mindfulness, Bliss, and Beyond:
    The Great Vipassanā versus Samatha Debate

    Some traditions speak of two types of meditation, insight meditation (vipassanā) and calm meditation (samatha). In fact the two are indivisible facets of the same process. Calm is the peaceful happiness born of meditation; insight is the clear understanding born of the same meditation.Calm leads to insight and insight leads to calm

    For those who are misled to concieve of all the instructions offered here as "just samatha practice" (calming) without regard to vipassanā (insight), please know that this is neither vipassanā nor samatha. It is called bhāvanā (mental development). This method was taught by the Buddha (AN IV, 125 - 27; MN 151, 13 - 19) and repeated in the forest tradition of Northeast Thailand, with which my teacher, Ven.Ajahn Chah, was associated. Ajahn Chah often said that samatha and vipassanā cannot be seperated, nor can the pair be developed apart from right view, right thought, right moral conduct, and so forth. Samatha and vipassanā, Ajahn Chah said, are like two sides of one hand...
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    Vipassana with a capital v usually donates one of those systems of meditation such as those developed by ( as you say ) Mahasi Sayadaw or Goenka, which come as a complete and graduated schema and which require detailed instruction and close supervision.
    My assumption rightly or wrongly was that this was the subject of the OP.

    The vipassana taught in the Forest Tradition centres is a much more informal process..and can perhaps be learned without formal instruction, although I would not recommend even that.
    BeeHurst
  • GlowGlow Veteran
    Ok, makes sense. :) Ah, I'd forgotten about Goenka. His style of meditation (I believe from U Ba Khin) would definitely require a very involved teacher, which is probably the reason for those intensive retreats. I've never been on one, but I know they are quite structured.
  • My teacher teaches openness meditation as taught by Trungpa Rinpoche. It is a shamata vipashyana meditation, but it is self sealing. By self sealing that means it won't hurt any people who aren't ready for it.
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    Trungpa Rinpoche sent me on a Sayadaw Vipassana course. When I came back he taught me how to combine it with shamata...it was an experiment, I was his guinea pig.. :)
    " In theory you should develop insight and tranquility at the same time " said he.
    Well, he had forgotten what a crap student I was... :eek:
    Jeffrey
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    edited March 2013
    Citta said:

    Vipassana with a capital v usually donates one of those systems of meditation such as those developed by ( as you say ) Mahasi Sayadaw or Goenka, which come as a complete and graduated schema and which require detailed
    instruction and close supervision.
    My assumption rightly or wrongly was that this was the subject of the OP.

    The vipassana taught in the Forest Tradition centres is a much more informal process..and can perhaps be learned without formal instruction, although I would not recommend even that.

    Just noticed my typo..thats ' denotes. '......doh.
    BeeHurst
  • Invincible_summerInvincible_summer Heavy Metal Dhamma We(s)t coast, Canada Veteran
    Just curious - what are the dangers/problems associated with attempting Mahasi/Goenka-style vipassana without formal instruction?
  • edited March 2013
    Hello. When the mind have the pure right concentration the vipassana will happen by itself. in Anguntara Nikaya Buddha teaching act of will not require for vipassana when mind have the pure right concentration. When mind have the impure wrong concentration the vipassana will be difficult to happen because mind have too many efforts too much vitakka (applied thought), cannot see clearly the impermanence & independent (not-self) characteristic of the object. With the impure concentration the samatha calmness can happen but mind later become too tranquillity (sleepy sloth) for vipassana. With the impure intention & concentration to make vipassana looking at rising falling of abdomen or sensations vipassana cannot last long. Sayadaw or Goenka factory not making mass production line of arahants because technique impure. Buddha teaching the pure concentration necessary for the vipassana.

    Invincible_summerSabre
  • Citta said:

    With Vipassana ( which differs from Anapanasati )...

    Method of Sayadaw or Goenka different to Anapanasati but Anapanasati not different to the real vipassana. Mind always seeing object of meditation is the concentration. Mind seeing clearly the impermanent not-self cause & effect characteristics of object of meditation is the vipassana. When mind is purity of consciousness the concentration, samatha & vipassana happen together. The vipassana improve when purity improve.

    pegembara
  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
    I'm actually following this specific practice. I highly recommend a book called, "Mindfulness in Plain English," by Bhante Gunaratana.
  • cazcaz Veteran United Kingdom Veteran
    Concentration is best developed by applying effort to still the mind and repeating the process regularly so it gets easier develop. Concentration on its own however will not take you anywhere special, Concentration in conjunction with virtue is the best Lamrim for example !
  • edited March 2013
    caz said:

    Concentration is best developed by applying effort to still the mind and repeating the process regularly so it gets easier develop.

    The pure concentration have many characteristic. The 1st characteristic is the stillness. In beginning meditator necessary to applying the effort to develop the stillness. After the stillness is develop must stop effort so can to develop the 2nd characteristic kammaniyo (in English workable, malleable ; fit for work, pliant, ready, alert, active). If mind not have the kammaniyo it cannot have the good vipassana because not fluid. For the vipassana mind to be like the water flowing. 3rd characteristic is the purity. Not have the craving. Have the letting go. The effort to still mind for the beginner concentration but not for the vipassana. For the vipassana mind is to be the stillness without the effort. Like still forest pond of water. Soft. Fluid. Flowing. Quiet. Clear.

    misecmisc1pegembara
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    Vipassana is more like a category of methods rather than a actual method itself, which is why you find instructions for it that are different. The different instructions are for the different methods. :)
    Invincible_summer
  • Vipassana leads to insight. This is how insight is described in the Canon.

    “In what respect, bhante, is a lay-follower accomplished in wisdom?”

    “Here, Mahānāma, a lay-follower is wise; he possesses the wisdom that is directed towards rise and passing-away, which is noble and penetrative, which leads to the utter destruction of suffering. In this respect, Mahānāma, a lay-follower is accomplished in wisdom.”

    ~ Saṃyutta-Nikāya, Sotāpattisaṃyutta, Sutta 37

    “Nāgita, when one dwells contemplating impermanence in the six bases of contact, revulsion towards contact is established; this is the outcome for him. When one dwell contemplating rise and fall in the five aggregates subject to clinging, revulsion towards clinging is established; this is the outcome for him.”

    ~ Aṅguttara-Nikāya, Book of the Fives, Sutta 30

    “The monk who has retired to a solitary abode and calmed his mind, who comprehends the Dhamma with insight, in him there arise a delight that transcends all human delights.

    “Whenever he sees with insight the rise and fall of the aggregates, he is full of joy and happiness. To the discerning one this reflects the Deathless.”

    ~ Dhammapada 373-374
    misecmisc1blu3ree
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    edited April 2013
    Its always a good idea to distinguish between " vipassana " as used in the Canon, and " Vipassana " which is a highly developedand controversial SYSTEM of meditation developed by Mahesi Sayadaw.(it is also known as The Burmese Method ) and Goenka et al.
    pegembara
  • Invincible_summerInvincible_summer Heavy Metal Dhamma We(s)t coast, Canada Veteran
    @Citta - What is controversial about Mahasi and Goenka? What makes it foolhardy to practice without formal instruction?
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    edited April 2013
    They are controversial for a number of reasons...one, their systems are highly prescriptive and leave no room for individual temperament or flexibility. Two , it is seen as very narrowly focused in terms of outcome..Three it is not found in the Suttas.
    Against that it is highly effective. It gets results. A large proportion of those who do the courses if they stick to it, get a degree of insight. But the method is often criticised for producing cult-like behaviour in those who do it. They can become closed to all other approaches.

    As to instruction...I am a hard-core believer that no form of meditation should be attempted without hands-on instruction.
    I have seen too many people become deluded and/or alienated, who attempt a d.i.y. approach.
    This need becomes acute with a highly organised system like " Burmese School" Vipassana.
    What is 'Insight 'in this context ?
    To give a personal example, when I had been practising Vipassana for some months I had a powerful experience.
    I was standing at the window watching trees blowing in the wind when suddenly I KNEW the absolute reality of Anicca. Not just as a theory that made sense, but I knew its truth to my marrow, to the core of my being. And far from being a source of joy and wonder I was extremely scared and drew back from the experience.
    A few days later I was talking to Ajahn Amaro about this experience..this was just before his extended stay in the US ..and he fetched a book and showed me what he and the other monks had been learning the day before, including a long compound word in Pali which described
    " the fear that arises with the first glimpses of the reality of the three signs " or something like that.
    Now I was able to check that out with an experienced monk..without that I think its possible that I would have found the whole thing highly disturbing and/or stopped practicing.
    Invincible_summer
  • lobsterlobster Crusty Veteran
    edited April 2013
    Well unless you are 'meditating for beautiful skin'
    http://www.meditationexpert.com/
    - Ay Caramba
    . . . most general purpose meditation techniques are safe, if you are mentally stable and free of chicken obsessions - just saying . . . . . ;)

    There are many ways to become aware of the breath and any technique will get you started. I have been taught a variety of things to focuss on regarding the breath. Sitting still and breathing gently should lead to a greater sense of calm. That is somewhere to start from. When you next go to the temple with your mother, you can ask for specific instruction and describe what you are doing . . . :)

    A good tip is to keep a diary and try all the techniques you have read. Focus on the stomach, the sensation on the upper lip, whatever and write down what happens.

    In a strange way you have to play at meditation before you can practice, later on it becomes almost playful again . . .
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    There are one or two excellent examples on this very forum of the dangers of meditation practice without hands-on instruction..
    Of course most people are not taken away in a straight-jacket.
    They just become engaged in papanca and become scattered and unfocused.
    Some even start to entertain delusions in the absence of the kind of checks and balances a straight talking teacher brings to the table.
    Life is short. It speeds by. Don't spend it endless circling the landing strip while cracking wise.
  • vipassana does not lead to insight.

    vipassana is insight.

    vipassana leads to panna, which is wisdom.

    from accesstoinsight;
    vipassanā:
    Clear intuitive insight into physical and mental phenomena as they arise and disappear, seeing them for what they actually are — in and of themselves — in terms of the three characteristics (see ti-lakkhaṇa) and in terms of stress, its origin, its disbanding, and the way leading to its disbanding (see ariya-sacca).
    pegembara said:

    Vipassana leads to insight. This is how insight is described in the Canon.

    “In what respect, bhante, is a lay-follower accomplished in wisdom?”

    “Here, Mahānāma, a lay-follower is wise; he possesses the wisdom that is directed towards rise and passing-away, which is noble and penetrative, which leads to the utter destruction of suffering. In this respect, Mahānāma, a lay-follower is accomplished in wisdom.”

    ~ Saṃyutta-Nikāya, Sotāpattisaṃyutta, Sutta 37

    “Nāgita, when one dwells contemplating impermanence in the six bases of contact, revulsion towards contact is established; this is the outcome for him. When one dwell contemplating rise and fall in the five aggregates subject to clinging, revulsion towards clinging is established; this is the outcome for him.”

    ~ Aṅguttara-Nikāya, Book of the Fives, Sutta 30

    “The monk who has retired to a solitary abode and calmed his mind, who comprehends the Dhamma with insight, in him there arise a delight that transcends all human delights.

    “Whenever he sees with insight the rise and fall of the aggregates, he is full of joy and happiness. To the discerning one this reflects the Deathless.”

    ~ Dhammapada 373-374

    blu3reeInvincible_summer
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    Once more the technical term " vipassana " as found in the Suttas is being conflated with " Vipassana " the school or method of meditation which is specifically aimed at raising Insight.
    This discussion will continue to go in circles until that is acknowledged.
    It may be objected that " Vipassana " does not lead to sutric " vipassana " but that is another discussion.
  • indeed, i wished the goenka/mahasi school will stop using
    the term 'vipassana meditation'.

    it has caused great confusion.

    every buddhist meditation's ultimate goal is insight n wisdom
    ie vipassana n panna.

    wishful thinking on my part, sigh.

    Citta said:

    Once more the technical term " vipassana " as found in the Suttas is being conflated with " Vipassana " the school or method of meditation which is specifically aimed at raising Insight.
    This discussion will continue to go in circles until that is acknowledged.
    It may be objected that " Vipassana " does not lead to sutric " vipassana " but that is another discussion.

    blu3ree
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    Well I think it unlikely that they will stop using the term hermitwin.. ;)
    hermitwinInvincible_summer
  • TheEccentricTheEccentric Hampshire, UK Veteran
    @glow
    Glow said:


    The basic idea is: you choose an object of focus (usually the breath), notice when your mind wanders, then return it to the object of meditation. Very simple, but very different from our usual way of letting the mind have a field day and jump around all over the place.

    I though that was just how you did normal breathing meditation which is samatha?
  • GlowGlow Veteran
    edited April 2013

    @glow

    Glow said:


    The basic idea is: you choose an object of focus (usually the breath), notice when your mind wanders, then return it to the object of meditation. Very simple, but very different from our usual way of letting the mind have a field day and jump around all over the place.

    I though that was just how you did normal breathing meditation which is samatha?
    Well, the Buddha never really differentiated different meditations for samatha and vipassana. All he described really was breathing meditation/anapanasati. Both samatha and vipassana are meant to arise out of mindfulness of breathing. There ARE other practices described in the canon (like mindfulness of death/mortality, called maranassati) but those aren't meant to be the foundational practices like the breathing meditation is. In fact, you need the stillness and insight gained from anapanasati in order to practice maranassati, or else you would likely become lost in aversion.

    The Mahasi-style vipassana, from what I've read, is more about picking an "anchor" and then using that as a vantage point from which to acknowledge the nature of whatever comes up in experience. You pick a very specific place to focus (usually the tip of the nostrils) and then stay there. Then, you note any distractions from that point of focus, and label it. For example, labeling thoughts "thinking", or labeling different feelings states as "pleasant", "unpleasant", or "neutral." This "note whatever arises in an equanimous manner" is also part of Goenka-style vipassana. In both Mahasi-style and Goenka-style meditation, there is a very specific progression of which aspects of experience to pay attention to. You can find a more elaborate description here.
    Invincible_summer
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