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Least Personification
Hi Everyone!
I'm somewhat new to Buddhism... at least insofar as the various traditions are concerned. I figured before I delved into reading a lot about individual teachers, since there are so many of them, I was wondering if any of you could help me narrow my search.
I come from a secular background, so I am really uncomfortable with what I have come to call "personified" versions of Buddhism. I'm not saying they are wrong, but it makes me uncomfortable to personify any of the teachings into mini-deities, or even just humanoid idols that represent the fundamental ideas. So finding a path that doesn't focus on things such as bowing the statues of the Buddha or burning incense to honor the Buddha would make me happy. From what I've read, this outlook seems to favor Theravada over Mahayana, though I am unsure on that for the following reason.
I also am looking for a focus on practical application of the teachings, such as a focusing on meditation and awareness in everyday action. I believe such practical focus will help me overcome the vestiges of my teenage drug abuse. I've whittled away everything except marijuana, but I want something to help 'busy' me as I push through the final steps of sobriety. This reminds me of Zen Buddhism, which is Mahayana, which is why I'm left asking questions.
It seems my two desires contradict each other. Are there teachers who reconcile this? Am I way off base? I'm sorry if I offend anyone, I'm not trying to say any practice is superior, I just recognize there are elements I desire and elements that make me uncomfortable, and am looking for guidance towards somebody speaking truth that I am ready to hear.
If it is any help, I was triggered into interest by Ram Dass's Be Here Now, which seemed to have similar ideas as Buddhism regarding the nature of reality and love. The same rejection of personification that I discuss here is why I was ultimately uncomfortable with his Hinduism. Can anyone help point me to some places? Or should I clarify something?
Thank You!
I'm somewhat new to Buddhism... at least insofar as the various traditions are concerned. I figured before I delved into reading a lot about individual teachers, since there are so many of them, I was wondering if any of you could help me narrow my search.
I come from a secular background, so I am really uncomfortable with what I have come to call "personified" versions of Buddhism. I'm not saying they are wrong, but it makes me uncomfortable to personify any of the teachings into mini-deities, or even just humanoid idols that represent the fundamental ideas. So finding a path that doesn't focus on things such as bowing the statues of the Buddha or burning incense to honor the Buddha would make me happy. From what I've read, this outlook seems to favor Theravada over Mahayana, though I am unsure on that for the following reason.
I also am looking for a focus on practical application of the teachings, such as a focusing on meditation and awareness in everyday action. I believe such practical focus will help me overcome the vestiges of my teenage drug abuse. I've whittled away everything except marijuana, but I want something to help 'busy' me as I push through the final steps of sobriety. This reminds me of Zen Buddhism, which is Mahayana, which is why I'm left asking questions.
It seems my two desires contradict each other. Are there teachers who reconcile this? Am I way off base? I'm sorry if I offend anyone, I'm not trying to say any practice is superior, I just recognize there are elements I desire and elements that make me uncomfortable, and am looking for guidance towards somebody speaking truth that I am ready to hear.
If it is any help, I was triggered into interest by Ram Dass's Be Here Now, which seemed to have similar ideas as Buddhism regarding the nature of reality and love. The same rejection of personification that I discuss here is why I was ultimately uncomfortable with his Hinduism. Can anyone help point me to some places? Or should I clarify something?
Thank You!
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Comments
But anyway-
I am what many refer to as a "secular Buddhist". I don't believe in a Deity or Gods. (especially one who bothers to micro-manage each of our lives).
I don't believe in [the Buddhist version] of Hell realms.
I'm on the fence about most of the other 'spiritual' / supernatural / religious aspects of Buddhism, like rebirth etc. I believe in Karma, though. Both 'instant' and cumulative.
I respect the traditions and rituals, but they are not part of my personal Buddhist practice. So what is?
Well, I read books by respected monks and Buddhist authors; I learned the precepts (adhering to the first 5, as best as I can); the 4 Noble Truths, as well as the 8 Fold Path. I apply these ethics and guidelines to my everyday life in the best way I can.... and try to stay mindful and compassionate in everyday dealings with others.
I am a Buddhist.
Then, there are the Thai Forest monasteries that don't really focus too much on that, from my understanding.
This is also why you may be confused as to why Zen Buddhism is considered a branch of Mahayana - some schools practice a lot of devotional stuff - but it is pretty much devoid of any devotional-type activities, aside from a tiny bit of bowing and some sutra chanting. All the reasons are social/historical/political I'm sure.
It seems to me that Zen Buddhism or maybe the Thai Forest tradition would probably be the best bet for you if you absolutely can't stand bowing or incense. But like I said, Zen and TF just have less of it, not necessarily completely devoid of it. You may be able to find a meditation group near you that doesn't do all of that while still being rooted in Buddhism.
But a question I think you need to ask yourself is: why are you so averse to bowing and such practices? These practices all serve a purpose. While some Buddhists may indeed feel the need to "worship" the Buddha or a Bodhisattva as a deity or cosmological being, there are other benefits to such practices that go beyond appearances. Bowing can be a powerful practice that helps lessen the ego and helps the individual "let go." Offering incense or other items is practicing generosity and appreciation.
@invincible_summer I guess it is because I'm afraid of being caught up in hero or cult worship. I don't actually bowing (so long as it is done as equals, or to a teacher. I just don't like bowing to an inanimate object; rather, I would not mind bowing in a room of my fellows, or even just aimlessly. Does that even make sense?) I think I need a teacher right now to keep me focused, I also see how retreating from the external world for a time could be beneficial, and I see how chanting can effectively provide a focus to allow the mind to clear. I just know that I am not capable of telling the difference between someone teaching legitimate practices and who is doing it to gather power. So I was hoping to divorce myself entirely from these until I'm strong enough to see the difference for myself. Do you think there are better ways to distill the snake oil from the olives?
I am aware I am attached to secular views, but I know I am not strong enough to let go of them yet. I would ask though; wouldn't it be more generous to direct that effort towards fellow living creatures, rather than simply burning something? It seems like making an offering that doesn't go to anything but an idealized spiritual practice would be keeping your material means for your own spiritual practice, rather than gifting the hungry or the lost. I'm just thinking in text here, though.
@MaryAnne Thank you for your words, I was worried I would be ridiculed for being inspired by Ram Dass due to his 'Tune In' background. It really made me feel better reading your response.
Thanks everyone!
@yad234 - I hope you don't take my previous post as saying "You're wrong - bow! Muahahaha!" I'm just trying to explain why those activities are done, and asking you to really think about why you dislike them. Is it just that you have some view of Buddhism as this devotion-less religion, or is it actually because you don't find it helpful at all?
Like fivebells said, if you're beginning your Buddhist practice and find that bowing and all that just gets in the way, then don't worry about it. You may come back to it later.
Oh, I didn't take you to be commanding at all! I actually agree that I see how bowing can be useful, and other acts can be useful. What I don't know is how to differentiate between the useful and the not useful. So really I am looking for a tradition that doesn't worship a person, which is why I tried to say 'personified' rather than use the term 'ritual'. It isn't a distinction I'm having an easy time explaining, haha!
I'm not trying to avoid devotion, I'm trying to avoid (really hard!) the cult leaders who claim to be teachers, just to get money from their followers. And I associate many devotional activities with that, so I figured until I'm strong enough to stand on my own two feet I should just avoid it altogether.
Basically, I'm spiritually very weak right now and as such am vulnerable to being caught up in ~just~ the devotion, instead of the greater truth behind it.
http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/18460/wayward-teachers-gurus-cults#latest
Try stuff out, see if it works for you. That's the best method I think.
My practise seems little more than the bare attention to this nano second but has arisen from Buddhist forms as varied as the analytical to the devotional.
Like's/dislikes and other such baggage are not good factors for choosing one form over another.
With carefull attention to the fundementals of the 4NT/8 FP & Dependent Origination, a good form is just whatever one best develops ones willingness to be formless.
I'm sorry, I don't really understand what you mean. How do you let go of likes and dislikes without losing all basis for evaluating what will be helpful to yourself, personally?