Taoism

Wisdom23

What are your opinions of Taoism?

riverflow

Well, I certainly like the Dao De Jing-- and that was an important stepping stone toward Chan/Zen for me (not sure how many translations I have owned in the past). I Zhuang Zi is a bit more difficult for me to get into, but I appreciate it. But the Dao De Jing has long been an important text that I return to again and again.

As far as Daoism as a religion, it makes little sense to me. But I do understand that the "silent illumination"/shikantaza form of meditation (central to Caodong/Soto) has partial origins in certain Daoist meditation practices.

Patr

In Asian countries where both are practiced side by side, its generally viewed so;

Buddhism is a higher teaching, but it leaves out a lot of day to day / mundane practices, essential for lay people caught in the rat race. Taoism fills in the gap.

mynameisuntz

@Patr - do you know of any good sources to read more about that day-to-day/mundane practices?

I don't really know anything about Taoism. Someone I knew once said it has the potential to foster apathy towards tragic events, like the most "intense" form of stoicism imaginable. As I said I don't know anything about Taoism, I have no idea if that's true, but someone feel free to step in and elaborate.

Florian

Yeah. People say the same about Buddhism sometimes, and it is the same misunderstanding.

Here is Hui Hai (750-810) from The Zen teachings of Hui Hai.

Q. Do Confucianism, Taoism and Buddhism really amount to one doctrine or three?

A. Master. Employed by men of great capacity, they are the same. As understood by men of limited intellect, they differ. All of them spring forth from the functioning of the one self-nature. It is views involving differentiation which make them three. Whether a man remains deluded or gains Illumination depends upon himself, not upon differences or similarities of doctrine.

Patr

Hi,
Everyday practices such as Feng Shui, divination, fortune telling, time to do certain chores,, like groundbreaking ceremonies, marriage, religious rituals, signing contracts.

Taoist mediums are plentiful for asking about the future/ certain problems, healing, exorcism, talking to the departed etc. Essentially a lot of the stuff thats discouraged in Buddhism (altho some schools do have the practice)

Their spiritual practice branch' Mao Shan' is very famous for both great and nasty stuffs concerning black and white magic. Protection spells, catching ghosts, nasty Hexes, getting the dead to do their biding are some of the stuff. Believe it or not!

BTW, Taoism has a similar practice to 'tantric sex', wonder who learned from whom.

Of course the mundane practices refer to the spiritual/ religious side of everyday life.
They have kitchen gods, earth gods, hell guards, territorial gods. They also have a way of calculating where the newly departed are headed to, which realm that is.

Sorry, you'll have to surf the net for a good site.

Jainarayan

I'm beginning to incorporate some Taoist principles and practices into my syncretic repertoire. There is philosophical Taoism and theistic/religious Taoism. I'm doing an admixture of both. Philosophical Taoism is not unlike the concept of Brahman and Advaita in Hinduism; religious Taoism is not unlike puranic, puja and bhakti Hinduism, with a pantheon of deities, or rather, manifestations of the Tao/Brahman. I can draw comparisons between Taoism and Buddhism in the philosophy of impermanence, compassion, morality and rebirth:

"Birth is not a beginning; death is not an end. There is existence without limitation; there is continuity without a starting point. Existence without limitation is space. Continuity without a starting point is time. There is birth, there is death, there is issuing forth, there is entering in. That through which one passes in and out without seeing its form, that is the Portal of God." - Chuang Tzu (Zhuangzi) 23

Taoist immortality is not like moksha in Hinduism, and not like what I understand nirvana to be. But I haven't gotten that deep into religious Taoism.

zenmyste

Zen buddhism without the buddhism = Taoism!

footiam

Wisdom23 said:

What are your opinions of Taoism?

Many Chinese claim to be Buddhists but many frequent Chinese temples, and pray to various deities there and they also burn paper money and do other things not attributed to Buddhism. While these give a wrong impression about Budddhism to non-Buddhists, I also suspect they give a wrong picture about Taiosm. Taiosm, I heard is based on Lao Tzi's Dao De Ching, and it advocates a simple life. Lao Tzi, one of China's great and well-known philosopher reportedly left China to live a simple life. He travelled west and at the border, an official asked him to leave behind something for the people and he wrote a thin book which now, is the famed Dao De Ching.

Citta

I will merely say that a friend of mine who did an in depth study of Daoism as part of a dissertation came to the conclusion that it has never existed in reality outside of a few popular books...That it is like modern Druidism..a fabrication. Bits and pieces tacked together from other sources.

Florian

Lol. Yesterday I decided I should stop arguing with people on the internet. It's tougher than I imagined.

Jainarayan

Florian said:

Lol. Yesterday I decided I should stop arguing with people on the internet. It's tougher than I imagined.

I'm coming to the same realization. One's time is better spent reading published books. Though of course, as the tv advert says (a reliable source itself) you can't put anything on the internet that isn't true... it says so on the internet.

Florian

To be honest, I find arguing the best way of learning. The more I argue the more I learn. But it's not a good way to endear oneself to people, and outside of academia many people feel that arguing is bad manners.

wrathfuldeity

Arguing is the best…it’s a lively dialogue; I ran a team of highly skilled experts…seasoned involuntary commitment officers (15-40 years of clinical mental health work), each with strong personality, independent and didn’t mind speaking their mind. It was a blast…like herding cats, learned a lot and team meetings were pandemonium...highly entertaining and educational.

If I many make an observation, that is way over simplified, generalized and without any basis but my own speculative meanderings.
Buddhism is in the head, Judeo/Christian/Muslim is in the heart and Tao/aboriginal/indian is in the gut. None are superior or inferior…but just different and perhaps operating out/from a different chakra.

wrathfuldeity

Citta said:

I will merely say that a friend of mine who did an in depth study of Daoism as part of a dissertation came to the conclusion that it has never existed in reality outside of a few popular books...That it is like modern Druidism..a fabrication. Bits and pieces tacked together from other sources.

The same reasoning would lead one to believe that the Lakota Sioux's cosmology never existed.

Jainarayan

wrathfuldeity said:

The same reasoning would lead one to believe that the Lakota Sioux's cosmology never existed.

True.

I'm always suspicious of broad claims. http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html#Chinese I can't vouch for the accuracy of these stats, but at least there are citations and references.

Citta

wrathfuldeity said:

Citta said:

I will merely say that a friend of mine who did an in depth study of Daoism as part of a dissertation came to the conclusion that it has never existed in reality outside of a few popular books...That it is like modern Druidism..a fabrication. Bits and pieces tacked together from other sources.

The same reasoning would lead one to believe that the Lakota Sioux's cosmology never existed.

I have no idea. I know nothing about either.

cork

zenmyste said:

Zen buddhism without the buddhism = Taoism!

Yep. I agree wholeheartedly. I also see Zen as Taoism with better instructions. I'm here because one can only go so far with Taoism (disregarding the folk religion part).

Everyone should read "The Tao of Pooh" to get the flavor of Taoism. Or at least you'll learn how to find lost car keys every time.

BhikkhuJayasara

funny, in my study of Taoism I kind of felt it was Buddhism that gave people the day to day "how to" kind of study, where as Taoism was filled much more with poetic quotes and such on the right way to live, but without the HOW.

even if you look at Jesus, the high ideals he taught.. but it was sid alone who gave a system of practice on HOW to live better, that's what makes Buddhism unique.

poptart

What a coincidence. I just bought a book about Taoism.

The Tao of internet arguments:

cork

I assume the Taoist is the incorrect poster. They (maybe we) aren't know for factual correctness.

Dennis1

wrathfuldeity said:

Citta said:

I will merely say that a friend of mine who did an in depth study of Daoism as part of a dissertation came to the conclusion that it has never existed in reality
outside of a few popular books...That it is like modern Druidism..a fabrication. Bits and pieces tacked together from other sources.

The same reasoning would lead one to believe that the Lakota Sioux's cosmology never existed.

I think he means as an organized religion. Isn't that the point. Buddhism is the organized part.