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To Be or Not To Be
Silouan
Veteran
Through my study and participation in Orthodox Christianity I have learned that the root of suffering derives from a belief or attachment to the notion of an intrinsically existing ego centric self which is actually transient. For the Orthodox Christian overcoming this attachment is movement toward well-being and fulfilling what it means to actually be a person. This is accomplished by way of self-emptying love in that the transient self is abandoned by no longer existing for itself. In contrast movement towards existing for the self is actually movement towards non-being.
Buddhism seems to be a movement toward negation of the notion of an intrinsically existing ego centric self by direct insight and wisdom gained through the realization of Emptiness. The existence of the self and phenomena are not negated but rather that they are ultimately seen as being empty of intrinsic existence, so it is not the self which is annihilated but rather just a mistaken view.
However, many Christian commentaries I read and Christians I speak with about the subject seem to interpret the doctrine of Emptiness as meaning a literal annihilation of the self and that enlightenment means just that where not only the self-negated but the person is also swallowed up and is absorbed in the absolute with a loss of its own uniqueness.
I recently read a story about a Chinese Buddhist who converted and became an Orthodox Christian monk on Mt Athos. He seems to support some of the Christian perceptions I hear about Buddhism in saying that "one is very much alone as your entire struggle is with yourself”, and “that one is totally alone on the path".
Additionally, the interviewer of the story posited an idea that “Even these Buddhists, who are from a non-theistic religion, created various deities. Even in dream language and worlds. But they have a need to refer to someone, to something, someone beyond and outside themselves, even if it’s dreamy.” He made this point in conveying an innate communal nature present in man and his need to express it.
Given the fact that there are many Buddhist traditions, some of which have no reference to deities, has me wondering if those traditions that do arose as perhaps a reaction to an over emphasis in a literal interpretation of annihilation of the self and phenomena, or if the Christian perspective presented is a correct analysis in that both the self and person are swallowed up or absorbed in the absolute, a state of non-being if you will.
Buddhism seems to be a movement toward negation of the notion of an intrinsically existing ego centric self by direct insight and wisdom gained through the realization of Emptiness. The existence of the self and phenomena are not negated but rather that they are ultimately seen as being empty of intrinsic existence, so it is not the self which is annihilated but rather just a mistaken view.
However, many Christian commentaries I read and Christians I speak with about the subject seem to interpret the doctrine of Emptiness as meaning a literal annihilation of the self and that enlightenment means just that where not only the self-negated but the person is also swallowed up and is absorbed in the absolute with a loss of its own uniqueness.
I recently read a story about a Chinese Buddhist who converted and became an Orthodox Christian monk on Mt Athos. He seems to support some of the Christian perceptions I hear about Buddhism in saying that "one is very much alone as your entire struggle is with yourself”, and “that one is totally alone on the path".
Additionally, the interviewer of the story posited an idea that “Even these Buddhists, who are from a non-theistic religion, created various deities. Even in dream language and worlds. But they have a need to refer to someone, to something, someone beyond and outside themselves, even if it’s dreamy.” He made this point in conveying an innate communal nature present in man and his need to express it.
Given the fact that there are many Buddhist traditions, some of which have no reference to deities, has me wondering if those traditions that do arose as perhaps a reaction to an over emphasis in a literal interpretation of annihilation of the self and phenomena, or if the Christian perspective presented is a correct analysis in that both the self and person are swallowed up or absorbed in the absolute, a state of non-being if you will.
3
Comments
Buddhism never claims a personal soul/self.....it is only those weird reincarnation nuts that believe in that.
From the same book referred to above, the concept of karma and reincarnation in Gnostic Christianity is explained as follows:
Your path of Idolatry, creating a distance between Absolute and person will be hard for some to swallow. In a sense, the non-being of the absolute just inflates into space.
Cod be with you. :wave:
Truth is relative, according to its moment.
It was once true that the sun revolved around the Earth.
Other 'truths' superseded that one.
it was once, that the Sun was a God.
Now we know it it be a star.
Truth is not dependent on the fact.
Truth is dependent on the proof of the search.
One person's Truth need not necessarily be another's.
I'd say that what 'dies' during awakening and is a self built on, or influenced by, ignorance and the defilements; and what's left is a mind that's liberated, unbound, freed from grasping and self-centeredness, and expressive of love, compassion, sympathetic joy, and equanimity. Nibbana, then, isn't a kind of annihilation or state of nothingness as I think many mistakenly believe it to be based upon the numerous 'negative' references as to what it's not; it's the experience of the fullness of life free from the suffering that arise from clinging.
What makes you say we must face up to the reality of not knowing what the universe is about? I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from...