Does anybody here understand the idea of "noting physical and mental sensations"?

banned_crab

It is a practice of insight called Mahasi Sayadaw style “noting” practice.

It says that I should be able to note 1-10 sensations per second. But I dont understand the term "noting". How am I supposed to notice 10 sensations per second, and than be able to identify whether they are physical or mental sensations. Does anybody understand?


Also "investigating the Three characteristics of these sensations" just doesnt make sense to me. The three characteristics are "impermanance" "no self" "wont satisfy" but why would I investigate them into every sensation.

Idk maybe my description might be confusing, if you dont know what im saying feel free to ask questions.

OR if you have a better method for insight practice than I am open to it

federica

Just sit.
you're trying too hard again.....

Sabre

How I approach meditation is not as a method or technique. To me those are just the framework, but what it is about is the results. Whatever reaches good results is a good method to me. To some this is one thing, to others this is another thing - and it will also change per day or even minute. So there is no way saying what is a 'better' method other than by the results it produces.

Either way, that way of looking at it is quite the opposite of the vibe I get around the Mahasi tradition which really seems focused on keeping with the method as much as possible nomatter what. And since it seems to me so focused on the method to me, it's probably best to find a teacher to tell you what they mean. This way there is less chance of misinterpreting.

But since you ask for other approaches, here is what I thrive with most:
http://www.dhammaloka.org.au/articles/item/576-the-basic-method-of-meditation.html

Which as a 'method' comes down to what federica says with 'just sit'.

footiam

If you are meditating and you fell pain somewhere, take note , means saying mentally, pain, pain. pain. If you feel, numbness, take note. Say, mentally, numb, numb, numb. And go back to noting the rising and falling of the abdomen.

pegembara

It says that I should be able to note 1-10 sensations per second. But I dont understand the term "noting". How am I supposed to notice 10 sensations per second, and than be able to identify whether they are physical or mental sensations. Does anybody understand?

You feel a twitch here and there, itch, touch or hear a sound. Basically we are constantly bombarded by sensations all the time - sights, sounds, smells, tastes, touch (physical) and emotional feelings, impressions, thoughts(mental). In anapanasati, we go narrow band ie. concentrating on breath only. In this case we go broadband - everything is noted. As you can see there are many things that are happening to us at any moment that it is impossible to note everyone of them. The more you practise, the more things you can notice happening.

You won't have time to separate out mental from physical events. The trick is to give each object equal attention and not get pulled in by the object. Eg. a sound occurs - that is a dog - why is it barking - someone please shut the dog up -stop thinking, thinking- gotta go back to breathing etc.

Your role is to be the "witness" or the knower. Take a deep breath and step back into the background.

banned_crab

pegembara said:

It says that I should be able to note 1-10 sensations per second. But I dont understand the term "noting". How am I supposed to notice 10 sensations per second, and than be able to identify whether they are physical or mental sensations. Does anybody understand?

You feel a twitch here and there, itch, touch or hear a sound. Basically we are constantly bombarded by sensations all the time - sights, sounds, smells, tastes, touch (physical) and emotional feelings, impressions, thoughts(mental). In anapanasati, we go narrow band ie. concentrating on breath only. In this case we go broadband - everything is noted. As you can see there are many things that are happening to us at any moment that it is impossible to note everyone of them. The more you practise, the more things you can notice happening.

You won't have time to separate out mental from physical events. The trick is to give each object equal attention and not get pulled in by the object. Eg. a sound occurs - that is a dog - why is it barking - someone please shut the dog up -stop thinking, thinking- gotta go back to breathing etc.

Your role is to be the "witness" or the knower. Take a deep breath and step back into the background.

Okay I understand so im pretty much just waiting to sense anything.

Almost like watching each rain drop as they hit the ground, but a different idea.

banned_crab

Sabre said:

How I approach meditation is not as a method or technique. To me those are just the framework, but what it is about is the results. Whatever reaches good results is a good method to me. To some this is one thing, to others this is another thing - and it will also change per day or even minute. So there is no way saying what is a 'better' method other than by the results it produces.

Either way, that way of looking at it is quite the opposite of the vibe I get around the Mahasi tradition which really seems focused on keeping with the method as much as possible nomatter what. And since it seems to me so focused on the method to me, it's probably best to find a teacher to tell you what they mean. This way there is less chance of misinterpreting.

But since you ask for other approaches, here is what I thrive with most:
http://www.dhammaloka.org.au/articles/item/576-the-basic-method-of-meditation.html

Which as a 'method' comes down to what federica says with 'just sit'.

thanks im reading it

karasti

I try not to focus on looking for anything, or noting anything. If something breaks the surface, I note it. Most of the time it's unimportant and I send it on it's way. Sometimes it is something I need to address and I make a mental bookmark and go back to it when my meditation is done. Sometimes something I notice/note needs to be dealt with, like changing positions slightly to avoid pain in my knee. Most of the time I ignore and re-focus on my breathing. I always found Trungpa's way of doing this the most helpful for me. When I catch myself thinking or noting anything, I create a boundary by saying "thinking" and go back to my breathing. It has been easier to train my mind that way.

I personally have found that the more I hope for or strive for or practice specifically towards something, the more elusive it is. Insight comes not when I am striving.

lobster

Insight comes not when I am striving.

The first person we have to be kind and gentle with is ourselves. Initial 'battles' to meditate, to implement 'fought for' practice, give way.
Let me offer an example. Everyday I would construct a new shrine, with flowers and other offerings before doing an attunement practice. Constructing a shrine is not meditation? It can be of course . . . The force is with you . . . don't force it . . .
Otherwise you could end up a Sith like me . . . Daath Lobster

banned_crab

Sabre said:

How I approach meditation is not as a method or technique. To me those are just the framework, but what it is about is the results. Whatever reaches good results is a good method to me. To some this is one thing, to others this is another thing - and it will also change per day or even minute. So there is no way saying what is a 'better' method other than by the results it produces.

Either way, that way of looking at it is quite the opposite of the vibe I get around the Mahasi tradition which really seems focused on keeping with the method as much as possible nomatter what. And since it seems to me so focused on the method to me, it's probably best to find a teacher to tell you what they mean. This way there is less chance of misinterpreting.

But since you ask for other approaches, here is what I thrive with most:
http://www.dhammaloka.org.au/articles/item/576-the-basic-method-of-meditation.html

Which as a 'method' comes down to what federica says with 'just sit'.

amazing read

this is just what I needed

Sabre

heyimacrab said:

Sabre said:

How I approach meditation is not as a method or technique. To me those are just the framework, but what it is about is the results. Whatever reaches good results is a good method to me. To some this is one thing, to others this is another thing - and it will also change per day or even minute. So there is no way saying what is a 'better' method other than by the results it produces.

Either way, that way of looking at it is quite the opposite of the vibe I get around the Mahasi tradition which really seems focused on keeping with the method as much as possible nomatter what. And since it seems to me so focused on the method to me, it's probably best to find a teacher to tell you what they mean. This way there is less chance of misinterpreting.

But since you ask for other approaches, here is what I thrive with most:
http://www.dhammaloka.org.au/articles/item/576-the-basic-method-of-meditation.html

Which as a 'method' comes down to what federica says with 'just sit'.

amazing read

this is just what I needed

You are welcome. If you want more teachings, there are more on the site, at 'downloads'. There is also a link to meditation classes on youtube.

Cinorjer

Mental games.

Vipassana or "noting" meditation as taught by monks like Mahasi Sayadaw is a method of extending the conscious awareness part of the mind. In this way, you begin to realize both how much your perceptions influence your actions and that you are not your perceptions. So you let your awareness skip around to your movements, your feelings, your thoughts, your body, and back to your movements and so forth. You take note of what you're perceiving, then let your awareness continue on.

I'd love to tell you a story, if you have a few minutes to indulge me.

Many years ago, when I was experimenting with different types of meditation, I tried this method. I went on a self-imposed weekend retreat to a friend's cabin in the hills of Southern Ohio. There I meditated, noting everything I felt, until all I really felt was extreme boredom. So I tried walking meditation through the surrounding woods, doing the same, noting every step, every movement and leaf and tree.

After a while, I stopped when I noted how thirsty I was, and only then noted I was also completely lost. I'd been so busy noting how I felt and how each branch that brushed my skin felt as my awareness skipped around, I'd neglected to note where the heck I was going. I eventually walked in a straight line until I found a fence and followed that back to a road.

For the rest of the weekend, I dropped the noting meditation and instead asked myself a presonal koan: "Where am I going?" What was I trying to do, with all this meditation and mind games? I think at the end, this was much more productive to me. In fact, I still ask this question when I'm feeling that my wheels are spinning and I'm just wandering lost in the wilderness.

I suppose the only moral of this story is, don't get so caught up in your meditation mind games that you forget to pay attention to where your mind is taking you.

Shigo

Perhaps not 100% on topic here but here is something that you can try just to become more aware of the senses.
Focus completely on one sound. Maybe a bird chirping, maybe the sound of wind. Just notice and listen for 1 min. Move on to the next sound you hear..a car went by...a neighbor mowing the yard....

Move on to the sound of your own breath. A min or so.

Notice something with your eyes. Whatever is in front of you. Just notice.

Do you smell anything? notice that.

Do you have a bad taste in your mouth in the morning? notice that

Notice your posture, relaxed or no? notice that. how do the different parts of the body feel? notice them, one by one *Slowly*

good to do first thing in the morning. 10-15 minutes before you start your day. Then Sit and do your regular meditation routine.
Guess what? you just started your day right off the bat being more aware without racking your mind trying to pack all the sensations in and labeling 10 things in 1 second.

Plus this practice comes in handy on your lunch break if your stressed at work.
Most important though, as others have said "Just sit"

banned_crab

Shigo said:

Perhaps not 100% on topic here but here is something that you can try just to become more aware of the senses.
Focus completely on one sound. Maybe a bird chirping, maybe the sound of wind. Just notice and listen for 1 min. Move on to the next sound you hear..a car went by...a neighbor mowing the yard....

Move on to the sound of your own breath. A min or so.

Notice something with your eyes. Whatever is in front of you. Just notice.

Do you smell anything? notice that.

Do you have a bad taste in your mouth in the morning? notice that

Notice your posture, relaxed or no? notice that. how do the different parts of the body feel? notice them, one by one *Slowly*

good to do first thing in the morning. 10-15 minutes before you start your day. Then Sit and do your regular meditation routine.
Guess what? you just started your day right off the bat being more aware without racking your mind trying to pack all the sensations in and labeling 10 things in 1 second.

Plus this practice comes in handy on your lunch break if your stressed at work.
Most important though, as others have said "Just sit"

Sounds good, I can develop mindfulness

Sabre said:

heyimacrab said:

Sabre said:

How I approach meditation is not as a method or technique. To me those are just the framework, but what it is about is the results. Whatever reaches good results is a good method to me. To some this is one thing, to others this is another thing - and it will also change per day or even minute. So there is no way saying what is a 'better' method other than by the results it produces.

Either way, that way of looking at it is quite the opposite of the vibe I get around the Mahasi tradition which really seems focused on keeping with the method as much as possible nomatter what. And since it seems to me so focused on the method to me, it's probably best to find a teacher to tell you what they mean. This way there is less chance of misinterpreting.

But since you ask for other approaches, here is what I thrive with most:
http://www.dhammaloka.org.au/articles/item/576-the-basic-method-of-meditation.html

Which as a 'method' comes down to what federica says with 'just sit'.

amazing read

this is just what I needed

You are welcome. If you want more teachings, there are more on the site, at 'downloads'. There is also a link to meditation classes on youtube.

Do you know any specificly good articles?

pegembara

Never forget the purpose of Buddhist meditation.

The aim of Buddhist meditation is to let go of these conditions of the mind, which doesn't mean denying, or getting rid of, or judging them. It means not believing them or following them; instead we listen to them as Dhamma, as conditions of the mind that arise and cease.With an attitude of awakened, attentive awareness, we learn to trust in just being the listener, the watcher, rather than being somebody trying to meditate to get some kind of result.
Ajahn Sumedho

Consciousness, thus unestablished, not proliferating, not performing any function, is released. Owing to its release, it stands still. Owing to its stillness, it is contented. Owing to its contentment, it is not agitated. Not agitated, he (the monk) is totally unbound right within. He discerns that 'Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, the task done. There is nothing further for this world.'

"For one knowing in this way, seeing in this way, monk, there is the immediate ending of fermentations."

SN22.55

misterCope

The way it was explained to me was: when something occurs, make a note of it, then let it go.

For instance:
A car horn honks outside, you think "horn," or better yet, "noise" then continue meditating.
But say the horn interrupted your sitting, and you get frustrated, you think "frustrated" and continue meditating.
Maybe now, your chest is a little tight, so you think "tight" and go back to meditating.

That's how I understand noting.

ericcris10sen

Just notice the pain or numbness, or notice your mind fixating on something else due to boredom or because it needs attention.

For me, one thing that helps if you feel an itch, instead of itching it, what I do is I focus on the itch and I feel what it's like and realize that it doesn't NEED itching, it's just my mind and my body wanting to do something else instead of meditate. And once I focus on that, tbh, the itch will subside. Now numbness is something else. I haven't been able to conquer that feeling and it always gets stronger lol

Invincible_summer

Many good videos on this type of meditation by Yuttadhammo Bhikkhu. Just another resource for you.