Meditation & Food

ThailandTom

Does anybody else find eating food a very good opportunity for meditation? I myself do, especially when I am eating alone. I think it is also a little bit better for your digestive tract also, but that is just speculation.

lobster

Yes.
Many sangha practice mindful eating . . .
http://deerparkmonastery.org/mindfulness-practice/eating-meditation :wave:

Citta

ThailandTom said:

Does anybody else find eating food a very good opportunity for meditation? I myself do, especially when I am eating alone. I think it is also a little bit better for your digestive tract also, but that is just speculation.

When hungry eat. When tired sleep.
And don't over do either.

ThailandTom

What I mean is, when you eat I have realised that one can be mindful of eating, one can be slightly mindful, one can be watching TV or doing some work or one can be talking with somebody. There is a clear difference I have noticed when you are mindful of the food you are eating just as if you are being mindful of the breath in meditation. You can watch your thoughts wander away from the action of eating, I personally find it just as helpful as watching the breath to be honest.

Citta

Then chomp away. For me mindfulness is not about making life robotic or self conscious.
I dont watch myself watching myself.
Be Zorba the Diner.
Really eat. Really taste. Be really grateful to whatever plant or animal laid down its life for you.

ThailandTom

Citta said:

Then chomp away. For me mindfulness is not about making life robotic.
I dont watch myself watching myself.

Really, interesting. I do not see it as robotic, I see it as being, mindful..

Citta

Mindfulness is about doing it fully. Not watching yourself do it.

ThailandTom

Observing the observer is mindfulness, that is how I at least conduct aspects of meditation, watching the mind. NB really has something stuck up it's ass after that Syrian thread cropped up sheesh. Where's federica as well, I have not seen her for a long while?

lobster

Observing the observer is mindfulness

Indeed it is, as you have experienced. Eventually such concentration exercises become commonplace, last longer and can be extended into non differentiation. eventually you can engage in mindful labelling, dzogchen style . . . till then enjoy your food . . . it would be crazy not to . . .
:wave:

Citta

ThailandTom said:

Citta said:

Then chomp away. For me mindfulness is not about making life robotic.
I dont watch myself watching myself.

Really, interesting. I do not see it as robotic, I see it as being, mindful..

NB There is no Dzogchen 'mindful labelling' Such a notion as 'labelling' ones actions is the very antithisis of Dzogchen.
I have seen no evidence that you have an interest in Dzogchen @ThailandTom.
if you ever develop such an interest pm me and I will try to see that any info you get corresponds to the actual reality.

karasti

I guess when I am being mindful I see it a bit differently, but I have a hard time explaining what the difference would be. Sometimes, yes, it is observing my mind and what it's up to. But sometimes it's letting go off all the mumbo jumbo and just being in the moment and ignoring what my observing mind is up to. Truly immersing in everything of the moment, such as when eating a meal. I don't think about the meal, label the meal, judge the meal. I just experience it and only it at that time. Of course, having 3 kids at the table means I am usually multitasking because I cannot simply focus on my meal and yet listen to all 3 of them talk about their days and be mindful of both 100%, lol. Not yet, anyhow.

Citta

The neo-Vipassana process takes things well past that @karasti..you are required to be mindful of lifting the food to the mouth..lifting fork..lifting fork... putting food in mouth..chewing chewing..if a sound interrupts your concentration you say to yourself hearing hearing...then back to chewing chewing.
As I said its the opposite of relaxed awareness. Its robotic. Its not one pointedness. Its merely narrowing awareness.

seeker242

ThailandTom said:

Does anybody else find eating food a very good opportunity for meditation? I myself do, especially when I am eating alone. I think it is also a little bit better for your digestive tract also, but that is just speculation.

Yes. Zen temples have been doing this for a long time! In Japan, the formal method of this practice is called Oryoki. http://www.tricycle.com/feature/eating-just-right-amount

how

I find that mindfully eating is not only the sanctification of that moment but demonstrates all the ways and means that other life has perished for me to practise another day.

IMO I thought that the Citta/Tom exchange was an interesting expression of the difference between a concentration exercise and a meditation practice.
Zen eating is so immersed in ritual that while we talk about it as an eating meditation, I think it is so controlled as to be better described as a concentration exercise.

ThailandTom

I think that many traditions take the action of eating differently, when looking on a monastic level. Even Ajahn Brahm has spoken about how he and his monks eat in silence and contemplated each movement and use the food as a kind of breath. he went on to say how people can be so non-mindful to eating that they choke and may even die from simply eating. I have seen this nearly happen a few times, this in itself is enough to be mindful of what you are doing, it does not mean you should be a robot, but be mindful!!

Mindfulness does not stop when you get up from your cushion or leave you sacred room of meditation, mindfulness needs to be productive and effective in everyday situations like eating, talking, walking etc etc etc

Jeffrey

@Citta, my teacher has been approved by her teacher to teach Mahamudra. In our meditation it is Trungpa and Pema Chodron's method.

They do say to label thinking 'just thinking'. In their method. It is not dzogchen method in her sangha as it is a mahayana sangha.

Citta

lobster said:

Observing the observer is mindfulness

Indeed it is, as you have experienced. Eventually such concentration exercises become commonplace, last longer and can be extended into non differentiation. eventually you can engage in mindful labelling, dzogchen style . . . till then enjoy your food . . . it would be crazy not to . . .
:wave:
To this.

federica

I have already removed your bickering to a different place.
Stop now, or risk further deletion, both of you.

Furthermore, if you report posts, and flag them, quit commenting further!
It makes Moderation impossible!!

Citta

_/\_

Citta

Jeffrey said:

@Citta, my teacher has been approved by her teacher to teach Mahamudra. In our meditation it is Trungpa and Pema Chodron's method.

They do say to label thinking 'just thinking'. In their method. It is not dzogchen method in her sangha as it is a mahayana sangha.

Returning to the topic, as you say 'labelling' does not feature in Dzogchen.

Jeffrey

@Citta, Yes I take your word for that as I am not practicing tantra. I would say that a lot of meditation teachers such as Trungpa, Pema Chodron, and my teacher lama shenpen hookham teach labeling with 25%, noting the breath with 25%, and feeling space with 50%.

That is in the booklet I received as a student basically. My teacher says that our 'formless meditation' is not dzogchen but that it (could) open(s) out to dzogchen.

The purpose of labeling is to get back to the spaciousness of the present moment. Maybe Dzogchen students already have enough shamata to avoid spending 3/4 of their meditation day dreaming. That's certainly true of myself! I day dream terribly, but I guess that just *is*.

Citta

Initially Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche did not teach Dzogchen to we western students.
Later he said that he had been mistaken The last year or two of his life he taught nothing else.
BTW Dzogchen is not Tantra.

karmablues

Neo-vipassana methods are not meant to bring the practitioner to one-pointed concentration (ekaggata-samadhi) but instead to arrive merely at momentary concentration (khanika-samadhi). The use of mental labels are tools to help with concentration. The labeling drops away automatically as the mind becomes more concentrated in the same fashion as what happens if you recite a mantra while doing breath meditation.

I didn't stick with this method long enough to know what benefits can be had from it when one is at an advanced level. All I can say is that it was useful in getting some basic understanding about the transitory and uncontrollable nature of mental objects as they arise and cease in the mind. It was the first method of meditation I ever tried in a long term retreat setting. I consider it to be an important stepping stone to my current practice.

karasti

One of Chogyam Trungpa's other students taught a brief weekend retreat here this past spring and he too used the "if you find thoughts rising, simply create a boundary by marking it as "thinking" and move on. Eventually this will become more automatic." And I thought I had also read it in one of CTR's books as well. Is that not something you learned with him? I'm interested in the discrepancy (if that's what it even is). I'm not saying it is or is not Dzogchen, as I know little about it at this point.

Citta

CTR taught Mahamudra and Dzogchen.
Although as I said the last couple of years it was all Dzogchen. Its not a discrepancy. He had a whole repertoire of skillful means.
Generally speaking Dzogchenpas do not use upayas like 'labelling ' This does not mean that they do not know about them, or disapprove of them per se.
I think the whole neo-Vipassana thing though is fairly extreme. And reduces some of its practitioners to semi-automatons.
Its a bit like that episode of Family Guy where Peter keeps up a running commentary on his own actions. ' Peter walked into the room and greeted his wife before sitting at the table ..etc etc '

Citta

Just to make it plain I am not talking about the practice of vipassana that grew from the canonical practice of anapanasati. I myself learned that from Dhiravamsa and in a modified form at Chithurst from Ajahn Anando. I am talking about the secularised NEO-vipassana that comes packaged and sanitised and divorced from a Dharmic context and from Sila and other upayas.

The canonical practice still differs from Dzogchen in its jumping off point, but I have no doubt of its value.

karmablues

I see, Citta. I thought when you mentioned "neo vipassana", you were referring to the dry insight method which was said to have been "rediscovered" in the early 1900s by a Burmese Sayadaw and later popularized by Ven. Mahasi Sayadaw. This method is the one I refer to and it is mainly based on the Visuddhimagga and to a lesser extent the Mahasatipathana Sutta.

footiam

ThailandTom said:

Does anybody else find eating food a very good opportunity for meditation? I myself do, especially when I am eating alone. I think it is also a little bit better for your digestive tract also, but that is just speculation.

Besides eating, working is meditation to some people. I heard a monk said, every action itself is actually meditation. One just have to take note of what one is doing.

oceancaldera207

ThailandTom said:

Does anybody else find eating food a very good opportunity for meditation? I myself do, especially when I am eating alone. I think it is also a little bit better for your digestive tract also, but that is just speculation.

I think its a good point, I always felt like eating was one of those things that I do very thoughtlessly..like it is a relaxation time. I'm sure if I paid more attention and increased awareness while eating, I probably wouldn't over eat like I do sometimes when I'm stressed or worried (which is often)

ThailandTom

footiam said:

ThailandTom said:

Does anybody else find eating food a very good opportunity for meditation? I myself do, especially when I am eating alone. I think it is also a little bit better for your digestive tract also, but that is just speculation.

Besides eating, working is meditation to some people. I heard a monk said, every action itself is actually meditation. One just have to take note of what one is doing.

This was pretty much what I was pointing to, meditation can be conducted in every day life and without labeling and mentally noting what you are doing, just being mindful of what you are doing.

If I am watching a movie for a example on my computer and eating a meal, a lot of the taste is missing from the food, I probably do not chew the food enough and as Ajahn Brahm has once said, it is even possible to be so lost in other things whilst eating, you can choke!