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I agree, but it also seems to me that a term such as "non-meditator Buddhist" is a bit of an oxymoron. I guess it sort of depends on how you define "Buddhist".
It also depends how you define "meditation". Most Buddhist traditions include some form of sitting meditation, though there are exceptions like Nichiren where chanting is the main practice.
Excellent point! However, there are those who would say that mantra recitation or chanting sutra, etc, is in itself, a meditation, too.
Yes, true, there is a great diversity of approaches. Methods and assumptions vary widely. But I suspect that without some kind of practice not much is going to change, it all just remains an intellectual exercise.
Yes, true, there is a great diversity of approaches. Methods and assumptions vary widely. But I suspect that without some kind of practice not much is going to change, it all just remains an intellectual exercise.
Yes, but for some,their "Buddhism" is nothing more than an intellectual excercise. They can rattle off sutra all day and live their lives restricted to the 5Ps and 8FP, but their practice has all the depth of a teaspoon.
Yes, but for some,their "Buddhism" is nothing more than an intellectual excercise. They can rattle off sutra all day and live their lives restricted to the 5Ps and 8FP, but their practice has all the depth of a teaspoon.
Anyone who is properly practising the precepts and 8-fold path will have great depth of practice. And understanding the suttas and sutras is most helpful.
My point was that it's practice that transforms, and in general the degree of transformation is proportional to the degree of practice. Just talking about Buddhism or paying lip-service to Buddhist ideas won't go anywhere. Of course doing serious practice requires application and effort, even faith, and not everyone can be bothered.
@Chaz I wouldn't mix up the concept of properly (trying) with a concept of perfection (judgmental ism)? 3 NT of 4?
&
to claim that you are now going to start being truthful has me wonder if you could let us know how many of your previous posts should be discounted? :rolleyes:
So with all these benefits, why would somebody decide not to meditate?
Mad monkey syndrome. We are multiple persons. Much of us is monkey. Our motivations are often irrational . . . maybe that is just me. Remember we have threads here of people who have meditated for a couple of years and they report with disdain that they are no more enlightened or calmer or better off. Maybe they should go fishing . . . [lobsterian inclinations emerging . . . must show restraint] Maybe they should go dancing . . . [restraints nearly working] . . . learn to chill . . . :cool:
For me the benefits are less mad monkey and more restraints in place. More restraints = more freedom? Seems that way . . .
Anyone who is properly practising the precepts and 8-fold path will have great depth of practice.
Perhaps, but what is "proper" here?
Taking practice seriously, not just paying lip service or trying to rationalise one's behaviour. Investing time and effort in practice, but also in understanding what exactly those practices are, and what they are for. Stuff like that.
Of course this applies to all Buddhist traditions. For example I used to practice in a Dzogchen tradition, and a lot of the people I met weren't doing much practice atall, they mostly talked about it.
Remember we have threads here of people who have meditated for a couple of years and they report with disdain that they are no more enlightened or calmer or better off.
I suspect some of those people have never been properly taught to meditate.
to claim that you are now going to start being truthful has me wonder if you could let us know how many of your previous posts should be discounted? :rolleyes:
Comments
My point was that it's practice that transforms, and in general the degree of transformation is proportional to the degree of practice. Just talking about Buddhism or paying lip-service to Buddhist ideas won't go anywhere.
Of course doing serious practice requires application and effort, even faith, and not everyone can be bothered.
Someone "properly practicing" Mahamudra will achieve the highest realization in this lifetime.
Someone 'properly practicing' Dzogchen will achieve the same.
Someone 'properly practicing' Shamatha will become a Buddha.
Someone 'properly practicing' the guitar will become a rockstar.
To be truthful, I don't know what "proper practice" of the 5Ps and 8FP is because everyone I know who claims to be doing that, really isn't.
I wouldn't mix up the concept of properly (trying)
with a concept of perfection (judgmental ism)?
3 NT of 4?
&
to claim that you are now going to start being truthful
has me wonder if you could let us know how
many of your previous posts should be discounted? :rolleyes:
We are multiple persons. Much of us is monkey. Our motivations are often irrational . . . maybe that is just me.
Remember we have threads here of people who have meditated for a couple of years and they report with disdain that they are no more enlightened or calmer or better off.
Maybe they should go fishing . . . [lobsterian inclinations emerging . . . must show restraint]
Maybe they should go dancing . . . [restraints nearly working]
. . . learn to chill . . . :cool:
For me the benefits are less mad monkey and more restraints in place.
More restraints = more freedom? Seems that way . . .
:crazy:
Of course this applies to all Buddhist traditions. For example I used to practice in a Dzogchen tradition, and a lot of the people I met weren't doing much practice atall, they mostly talked about it.
Makes no difference to me.
:thumbsup: