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@poptart nor is it about you Why are you being so aggressive?
I don't believe @Lahke has been offended as of yet (however, I am willing to be proven wrong as @Lahke has since stated English is not his/her mother tongue).
@poptart I regret largely because I feel like I have upset a lot of people. Although I'm sensitive in general (kindness, love, compassion and beautiful movies always get me too - I avoid watching them with friends or family, as I can tear up quite easily), it's more about other people here. I feel like I gave them a reason to be annoyed (even if by a little). I even feel guilty of making some of you here think that there is only one truth out there; that you are right and I am wrong.
I'm not entirely sure if ''Right Effort'' applies for others too, but I feel like I could have prevented the arising of unwholesome states for some by not posting here in the first place. Although Right Effort in the Eightfold Path may be wrong, as preventing the arising of unwholesome states is escaping. That last sentence was meant as the most harmful joke ever. Please don't take this the wrong way.
I just did some exercises for 30 minutes to keep the body healthy and thought I would shine some more light on that 'social anxiety' of mine. If you google it, then I'm one of the millions with the same problem. Some of your friends or family may be suffering from it - you just don't know about it it (like my family or friends have no idea about mine).
So, I would say that 4 times out of 5 my face turns red when I'm exercising. It happens even when I'm stretching. As long as I remember, it has always happened to me. This is because I have more superficial blood vessels in the skin of the cheeks and chin (according to Dr. James Marotta and many-many others). So my face will seem redder than other people's face!
This is all from medical doctors and professionals in these fields: Facial blushing happens occasionally as an involuntary reddening of the face due to embarrassment or stress. Blushing results from an overactive sympathetic nervous system, which is part of the involuntary central nervous system in our bodies.
Severe facial blushing is common in people who experience persistent or extreme anxiety in social or performance situations, where there exists a fear of being criticized or humiliated. It is possible, however, that any given situation - even a casual conversation with friends - may elicit intense blushing. Further, blushing can occur as a simple reaction for the ''fight or flight'' instinct - the one that every single one of us have. Some get sweaty hands or faster heart beat - I get redness. Yours are not easily noticeable - mine is. And by the way, there are many-many times where it occurred when I'm alone at home. Sometimes it just comes out of the blue.
Once the blushing begins, a seemingly vicious cycle is set in motion, exacerbating the redness and taking several minutes for it to subside. Extreme blushing can be physically and emotionally unbearable. Unfortunately, the consequences may be a damaged social appearance or professional performance. The anxiety comes in only as a fear of this happening. As I've mentioned a few times, I have very little (or close to none) problems with it while I was in Thailand or when I was in the States. Or visiting Spain. Something about the cold weather is triggering it more easily.
I know people who have had facial surgery to eliminate the problem. They've had surgery to remove those superficial blood vessels or just ''push them deeper''. As I already mentioned, the anxiety developed because of blushing - not the other way around. True, there are now times where the 'fear of it happening' actually triggers it, but even if I would to get rid of it, it wouldn't fix the original problem.
So are some of you happy now? It's the first time I've ever talked about it. I feel anything but good, but here it is. I'm naked!
I for one am not upset, disturbed or otherwise annoyed by your comments, explanations or replies, @Lahke. But apparently some of our replies didn't meet some of your expectations. We know they have not met @Poptart's expectations, he/she made that very clear....
Well, I may not agree with your perceptions or point of view about some things, @Lahke, but that's OK, rarely do people on the 'outside' of situations see things the same as people 'inside' the situation. Sometimes those on the outside see things much more clearly, sometimes it's the other way around. And that is why we ask people on the "outside" for other perspectives. :: shrugs:::
So, like I said before in a comment of mine- "Peace, and Best of Luck"
I dont think you are. Though as I read it, your original post suggested severe dissatisfaction with your current condition. In that sense, I think, advice was aimed at addressing the dissatisfaction by focusing on the possible causes you outlined. If you don't need advice then everything is ok - happy days so to speak.
I was responding to the idea that introverts and extroverts can't change. And I gave an example of where at least one (and I can't imagine that I was the only one) who did change to a significant degree. In fact, I'm surprised how often I learn that there are actors and comedians who see themselves as introverts. Most people who tend to be at one end of the spectrum or the other can learn to adjust their behavior and comfort level.
I was responding to the idea that introverts and extroverts can't change. And I gave an example of where at least one (and I can't imagine that I was the only one) who did change to a significant degree. In fact, I'm surprised how often I learn that there are actors and comedians who see themselves as introverts. Most people who tend to be at one end of the spectrum or the other can learn to adjust their behavior and comfort level.
I totally agree. Extroverts and introverts (even at extremes) can and do behave contrary to their identified attitude-type. Sometimes you have to fake it to make it. And once you fake it long enough, it becomes a real part of your behavior.
Yes, exactly, Yishai. At one time I had a moderate fear of flying. Then I decided to go to Thailand. Well, 27 hours of flying that first time. And each flight became easier until I barely thought about it.
When parents would say how "good" I was up front speaking in meetings, I would tell them that it was a struggle for me. And in the early years of being a school administrator I would write my talks down...word for word. As time went by, I would write less and less down, until often I would not prepare notes at all...except on my desk ahead of time...I'd rehearse quite a bit...and then when the time came I would simply let it flow.
One of the things an introvert needs to do is develop his or her own "work-arounds" to get through things. Instead of withdrawing from situations, put yourself into situations...a little bit...and carefully selected...at a time. This is actually what they do when they work with people agoraphobia...they take it one step at a time. Same thing they do in groups such as Smokenders to help people stop smoking...one situation at a time.
Well, there are some other physical disfigurements (not sure if that's the right word) that are worse than extreme blushing, and it is very much possible to overcome the anxiety associated with them.
You asked for advice and we gave advice. Some will suit your needs and your situation, and some won't. That's just the nature of asking a big group of people. Not everyone will understand your situation perfectly no matter how well you explain it.
Best wishes, and I hope you can improve your situation. I hope some of us have been helpful.
Yes, exactly, Yishai. At one time I had a moderate fear of flying. Then I decided to go to Thailand. Well, 27 hours of flying that first time. And each flight became easier until I barely thought about it.
When parents would say how "good" I was up front speaking in meetings, I would tell them that it was a struggle for me. And in the early years of being a school administrator I would write my talks down...word for word. As time went by, I would write less and less down, until often I would not prepare notes at all...except on my desk ahead of time...I'd rehearse quite a bit...and then when the time came I would simply let it flow.
One of the things an introvert needs to do is develop his or her own "work-arounds" to get through things. Instead of withdrawing from situations, put yourself into situations...a little bit...and carefully selected...at a time. This is actually what they do when they work with people agoraphobia...they take it one step at a time. Same thing they do in groups such as Smokenders to help people stop smoking...one situation at a time.
@vinlyn, I don't think you fully understand the definition of introversion. You seem to think it is about fear - you mentioned fear or flying and (I assume) fear of public speaking. You told me how your fear of flying decreased as you kept flying, or how practicing public speaking made you better at it. Neither of these things are introversion. Introversion does NOT mean shy or modest. Many introverts are shy (like I am), but they are not the same thing. Neither is introversion a ''fear of other people or public speaking.''
Have you read Dr. Laurie Helgoe's or Susan Cain's book? I doubt because then you would know what introversion really is. If I get tired and wore down after spending time around other people, how does doing it more change it? It's not that introverts fear being around other people - it's just that it depletes our energy. We feel empty and tired afterwards, and the only thing we wish is to be alone and recharge our batteries. I was literally shut down in my last few days at the monastery. Other monks were somewhat worried because I had no emotions. I was like a walking zombie.
Anyway, thanks everybody and may you all have an excellent weekend! With Metta!
Susan Cain is not a psychologist, psychiatrist or even a medical doctor. She is at this point in her career, more a motivational speaker.... hardly an 'expert' on personality types. From her Bio:
"Before I became a writer, I practiced corporate law for seven years, representing clients like Goldman Sachs and General Electric. Then I started a negotiation consultancy, training all kinds of people, from hedge fund managers to TV producers to college students negotiating their first salaries. My clients have included Merrill Lynch, Shearman & Sterling, One Hundred Women in Hedge Funds, and many more. I went to Princeton University and Harvard Law School.... "
As for Dr Laurie Helgoe, well she is a trained psychologist, I'll give her that, however, this is a partial list of her publications: The Introvert's guide to Dating The Introvert's Way: Living a Quiet Life in a Noisy World Raising Boys Anxiety Answer Book Boomer's Guide to Dating (Again) Introvert Power: Why Your Inner Life Is Your Hidden Strength.... and several more.
All self-help books. Dr Helgoe seems to be more of a self-help guru (only for introverts, because she claims she is one herself) and not much of a practicing psychologist. Now, I'm not saying she doesn't know anything, but just like Dr. Phil (who is loved and respected by millions) once you give up the office for making money in writing books where people are supposed to "help themselves" get mentally healthy without face-to-face therapy and interaction ... you aren't really practicing psychology or psychiatry... you're a 'writer' (and patients/clients become 'readers'), I think there's a huge difference.
and as for telling @Vinlyn he doesn't know what "introvert" means... really? It's not about fear? Well introverts feel anxiety, don't they? That anxiety response almost always generates an aversion to situations where the response will be anxiety. Crowds, confined spaces, speaking in public, etc.... for an introvert this mostly causes anxiety, can we agree on that? and- Anticipated anxiety can also be called a "fear".
That's a good question. Are introverts anxious? I think most everyone is anxious in company, but I could be wrong. I've also heard the view that introverts lose energy with groups of people. I am very tired when I go to family gatherings, but I wouldn't say I am anxious because my family all love me. So I think there is something to what Lahke says.
There must be some therapist who can help an introvert. There are a lot of introverts.
Since when is being an introvert a "bad thing"? I'm actually an introvert and function quite normally (according to psychotherapy) in society.
At the risk of raising people's ire, I think you've self diagnosed yourself as an introvert @Lahke. From what you've said I don't think you're an introvert as much as anti social.
Isn't being mindful the act of an introvert? Aren't we all what could be considered introverts when we learn to practice Buddhism and learn that the 3rd NT is possible and accept the methods of cessation?
I don't think so. An extrovert can be mindful of things and people around him and take them into account in making decisions. An extrovert (or an introvert) doesn't necessarily play the role 24/7.
Comments
I don't believe @Lahke has been offended as of yet (however, I am willing to be proven wrong as @Lahke has since stated English is not his/her mother tongue).
I regret largely because I feel like I have upset a lot of people. Although I'm sensitive in general (kindness, love, compassion and beautiful movies always get me too - I avoid watching them with friends or family, as I can tear up quite easily), it's more about other people here. I feel like I gave them a reason to be annoyed (even if by a little). I even feel guilty of making some of you here think that there is only one truth out there; that you are right and I am wrong.
I'm not entirely sure if ''Right Effort'' applies for others too, but I feel like I could have prevented the arising of unwholesome states for some by not posting here in the first place. Although Right Effort in the Eightfold Path may be wrong, as preventing the arising of unwholesome states is escaping. That last sentence was meant as the most harmful joke ever. Please don't take this the wrong way.
So, I would say that 4 times out of 5 my face turns red when I'm exercising. It happens even when I'm stretching. As long as I remember, it has always happened to me. This is because I have more superficial blood vessels in the skin of the cheeks and chin (according to Dr. James Marotta and many-many others). So my face will seem redder than other people's face!
This is all from medical doctors and professionals in these fields: Facial blushing happens occasionally as an involuntary reddening of the face due to embarrassment or stress. Blushing results from an overactive sympathetic nervous system, which is part of the involuntary central nervous system in our bodies.
Severe facial blushing is common in people who experience persistent or extreme anxiety in social or performance situations, where there exists a fear of being criticized or humiliated. It is possible, however, that any given situation - even a casual conversation with friends - may elicit intense blushing. Further, blushing can occur as a simple reaction for the ''fight or flight'' instinct - the one that every single one of us have. Some get sweaty hands or faster heart beat - I get redness. Yours are not easily noticeable - mine is. And by the way, there are many-many times where it occurred when I'm alone at home. Sometimes it just comes out of the blue.
Once the blushing begins, a seemingly vicious cycle is set in motion, exacerbating the redness and taking several minutes for it to subside. Extreme blushing can be physically and emotionally unbearable. Unfortunately, the consequences may be a damaged social appearance or professional performance. The anxiety comes in only as a fear of this happening. As I've mentioned a few times, I have very little (or close to none) problems with it while I was in Thailand or when I was in the States. Or visiting Spain. Something about the cold weather is triggering it more easily.
I know people who have had facial surgery to eliminate the problem. They've had surgery to remove those superficial blood vessels or just ''push them deeper''. As I already mentioned, the anxiety developed because of blushing - not the other way around. True, there are now times where the 'fear of it happening' actually triggers it, but even if I would to get rid of it, it wouldn't fix the original problem.
So are some of you happy now? It's the first time I've ever talked about it. I feel anything but good, but here it is. I'm naked!
Well, I may not agree with your perceptions or point of view about some things, @Lahke, but that's OK, rarely do people on the 'outside' of situations see things the same as people 'inside' the situation.
Sometimes those on the outside see things much more clearly, sometimes it's the other way around. And that is why we ask people on the "outside" for other perspectives.
:: shrugs:::
So, like I said before in a comment of mine- "Peace, and Best of Luck"
Though as I read it, your original post suggested severe dissatisfaction with your current condition.
In that sense, I think, advice was aimed at addressing the dissatisfaction by focusing on the possible causes you outlined.
If you don't need advice then everything is ok - happy days so to speak.
When parents would say how "good" I was up front speaking in meetings, I would tell them that it was a struggle for me. And in the early years of being a school administrator I would write my talks down...word for word. As time went by, I would write less and less down, until often I would not prepare notes at all...except on my desk ahead of time...I'd rehearse quite a bit...and then when the time came I would simply let it flow.
One of the things an introvert needs to do is develop his or her own "work-arounds" to get through things. Instead of withdrawing from situations, put yourself into situations...a little bit...and carefully selected...at a time. This is actually what they do when they work with people agoraphobia...they take it one step at a time. Same thing they do in groups such as Smokenders to help people stop smoking...one situation at a time.
You asked for advice and we gave advice. Some will suit your needs and your situation, and some won't. That's just the nature of asking a big group of people. Not everyone will understand your situation perfectly no matter how well you explain it.
Best wishes, and I hope you can improve your situation. I hope some of us have been helpful.
Have you read Dr. Laurie Helgoe's or Susan Cain's book? I doubt because then you would know what introversion really is.
Anyway, thanks everybody and may you all have an excellent weekend! With Metta!
Susan Cain is not a psychologist, psychiatrist or even a medical doctor. She is at this point in her career, more a motivational speaker.... hardly an 'expert' on personality types. From her Bio:
"Before I became a writer, I practiced corporate law for seven years, representing clients like Goldman Sachs and General Electric. Then I started a negotiation consultancy, training all kinds of people, from hedge fund managers to TV producers to college students negotiating their first salaries. My clients have included Merrill Lynch, Shearman & Sterling, One Hundred Women in Hedge Funds, and many more. I went to Princeton University and Harvard Law School.... "
As for Dr Laurie Helgoe, well she is a trained psychologist, I'll give her that, however, this is a partial list of her publications:
The Introvert's guide to Dating
The Introvert's Way: Living a Quiet Life in a Noisy World
Raising Boys
Anxiety Answer Book
Boomer's Guide to Dating (Again)
Introvert Power: Why Your Inner Life Is Your Hidden Strength.... and several more.
All self-help books.
Dr Helgoe seems to be more of a self-help guru (only for introverts, because she claims she is one herself) and not much of a practicing psychologist.
Now, I'm not saying she doesn't know anything, but just like Dr. Phil (who is loved and respected by millions) once you give up the office for making money in writing books where people are supposed to "help themselves" get mentally healthy without face-to-face therapy and interaction ... you aren't really practicing psychology or psychiatry... you're a 'writer' (and patients/clients become 'readers'), I think there's a huge difference.
and as for telling @Vinlyn he doesn't know what "introvert" means... really? It's not about fear? Well introverts feel anxiety, don't they? That anxiety response almost always generates an aversion to situations where the response will be anxiety. Crowds, confined spaces, speaking in public, etc.... for an introvert this mostly causes anxiety, can we agree on that? and- Anticipated anxiety can also be called a "fear".
It could be out of fear. Or not.
There must be some therapist who can help an introvert. There are a lot of introverts.
At the risk of raising people's ire, I think you've self diagnosed yourself as an introvert @Lahke. From what you've said I don't think you're an introvert as much as anti social.