If the population of Humans is increasing

TheEccentric

Then does it mean that the amount of Karma required for a human rebirth is decreasing as there are more opportunities for beings to be reborn as humans as more humans are being born?

MaryAnne

For me, personally, what you said above only serves to reinforce my confident disbelief in that mode of reincarnation.
The notion of reincarnating from/to different levels of sentience, (animal to human; human to animal, etc) based on Karma, is, again, IMO merely "superstition" and/or a religious reward/punishment system of thinking.... YMMV

matthewmartin

You can make all sort models if you have infinities going on. So with infinite worlds & individuals, you are always guaranteed a place to reincarnate. But that also means that being born as a human (or sentient space alien cable of practicing the dharma) isn't special anymore. Math wasn't a strong suite of ancient writers.

Speaking of deflation, have you seen the denominations of hell notes? The world of king Yama has some serious hyperinflation going on. (King Yama is the arbiter of post mortem karma & routes the the selfless dead to the appropriate world)

vinlyn

MaryAnne said:

For me, personally, what you said above only serves to reinforce my confident disbelief in that mode of reincarnation.
The notion of reincarnating from/to different levels of sentience, (animal to human; human to animal, etc) based on Karma, is, again, IMO merely "superstition" and/or a religious reward/punishment system of thinking.... YMMV

Quite so, and so many Buddhists dislike the same concept with Christian heaven and hell.

Tosh

@TheEccentric, A teaching doesn't stand or fall on it's basis in reality, but on the ability of it's transformational value. If believing in some kind of mechanical karmic rebirth system helps you motivate your practise in a positive direction; then it's a worthwhile belief.

Sometimes I wish I wasn't so closed-minded about certain stuff; I'm pretty sure it doesn't do me much good.

how

I think that the closer one looks at what a human is comprised of, the less convinced one would be that the rebirth of it's karmic would take the human form again as opposed to whatever other medium is available for it's expression.
Our own ego and it's dogged hope for continuence is the only cheerleader for a personality karmic rebirth story.
How fortunate it is that we happen to find ourselves right now at the top of the Dharmic food chain.
Oh wait...I wonder what sentience doesn't find itself special as well?

Tosh

vinlyn said:

Quite so, and so many Buddhists dislike the same concept with Christian heaven and hell.

You know that Hell isn't a Bible teaching? Hell, or rather Gehenna, was a place outside of Jerusalem where rubbish was burnt. They'd also dump the bodies of people - like thieves - at Gehenna and mummies would threaten their children with, "If you don't behave, you'll end up in Gehenna when you're older!" Just like some parents may tell their kids that they'll end up in prison today, if they carry on with their bad behaviour.

But over time, an evolution of thought transformed Gehenna (Hell) into the Hell doctrine we have today (which not all Christian sects believe btw); it got bums on pews and helped Christian Inc get us to tithe them 10% of our income.

Jeffrey

Rebirth is outside of space and time. It is not a backpack that hops off of you and onto another person. It is mysterious and a heavy touch towards rebirth can be detrimental because it could arouse fear or doubt.

vinlyn

Tosh said:

vinlyn said:

Quite so, and so many Buddhists dislike the same concept with Christian heaven and hell.

You know that Hell isn't a Bible teaching? Hell, or rather Gehenna, was a place outside of Jerusalem where rubbish was burnt. They'd also dump the bodies of people - like thieves - at Gehenna and mummies would threaten their children with, "If you don't behave, you'll end up in Gehenna when you're older!" Just like some parents may tell their kids that they'll end up in prison today, if they carry on with their bad behaviour.

But over time, an evolution of thought transformed Gehenna (Hell) into the Hell doctrine we have today (which not all Christian sects believe btw); it got bums on pews and helped Christian Inc get us to tithe them 10% of our income.

Iinteresting, Tosh. Thank you!

Jeffrey

@Tosh, when did Satan become a prominent belief? I know Satan tempted Christ.

betaboy

Jeffrey said:

@Tosh, when did Satan become a prominent belief? I know Satan tempted Christ.

Genesis - the serpent tempted Eve. Satan has been around right from the beginning, tempting people to sin.

Tosh

Jeffrey said:

@Tosh, when did Satan become a prominent belief? I know Satan tempted Christ.

I don't know, @Jeffrey. But the similarities between Satan tempting Jesus and Mara trying to tempt the Buddha are interesting I think.

caz

TheEccentric said:

Then does it mean that the amount of Karma required for a human rebirth is decreasing as there are more opportunities for beings to be reborn as humans as more humans are being born?

Samsara is an odd place...It depends where are people being born and what circumstances are they being born into whether they're Karma can be considered good or not. A Human rebirth is only precious if it is used to create virtue and pursue enlightenment.

uzeb

There may be humans on other planets.

Jeffrey

Human doesn't have to be homo sapiens. It can be other intelligent creature in the human realm. The human realm includes intelligence, aquisitive, and passionate. I think I have that right?

Neither

Irregardless. It is a profound blessing to have a body and mind capeable of comprehending the dharma. To say that animals can not follow the way is a bit foolish to me; but they certainly cannot read the ancient writings and understand them. Nor do they have the ease and comfort that we have as humans, especially here in the 1st world; despite the fact that we mostly get this ease at the expense of animals... and the 3rd world.

As I say, If an animal were to kill me, hed better eat me, and if he eats me I hope he enjoys it. Wasting human life in frivolous persuits is like this. Regardless of how or why you get it, it is blessed, so dont waste it.

Chaz

Tosh said:

Jeffrey said:

@Tosh, when did Satan become a prominent belief? I know Satan tempted Christ.

I don't know, @Jeffrey. But the similarities between Satan tempting Jesus and Mara trying to tempt the Buddha are interesting I think.

They are both expressions of the same archtype.

David

TheEccentric said:

Then does it mean that the amount of Karma required for a human rebirth is decreasing as there are more opportunities for beings to be reborn as humans as more humans are being born?

I've heard this argument before but it pre-supposes Earth is the only planet in the entire universe capable of turning out sentient beings which evolve brains capable of understanding.

David

Chaz said:

Tosh said:

Jeffrey said:

@Tosh, when did Satan become a prominent belief? I know Satan tempted Christ.

I don't know, @Jeffrey. But the similarities between Satan tempting Jesus and Mara trying to tempt the Buddha are interesting I think.

They are both expressions of the same archtype.

I agree. Weren't they both in a meditative state and fasting when they faced their inner demons as well?

footiam

TheEccentric said:

Then does it mean that the amount of Karma required for a human rebirth is decreasing as there are more opportunities for beings to be reborn as humans as more humans are being born?

It could means too the dinosaurs have returned.