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Not many people can attain jhanas
bookworm
U.S.A. Veteran
Desire for sense pleasures there are many types of sense pleasures which includes sexual desire, it is one of the 5 hindrances and I think it is the hardest one to avoid and as long as there remains even a latent craving (including that for sex), according to the Buddhist teaching rebirth will inevitably continue to take place. and and even attaining the first Jhana will be impossible until the desire for sex eliminated. The Buddha was a superhuman being
Do you think if a human being is able to eliminate the five hindrances completely which includes sexual desire and becomes celibate for the rest of his life is truly superhuman just like the Buddha?
Do you think if a human being is able to eliminate the five hindrances completely which includes sexual desire and becomes celibate for the rest of his life is truly superhuman just like the Buddha?
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Comments
It's not all or nothing.
The work you do with any hindrance aids you in dealing with the others.
The accomplishments of those preceding you on the path are supposed to show you what is possible, not how impossible it is.
What you can do, that another thinks he can't, does not make you a superhuman.
The Buddha only said he was awake.
.
There is a Middle Way.
To insist on all or nothing is to cling to ideas and expectations.
If you believe there is nothing good that can come from deep abiding love for another human being, and the *natural* sexual desirous response to the person who fires that love and compassion within you.... then you are missing out on one of the greatest joys of Human existence.
I personally don't believe, no, I refuse to believe that the Buddha was a joyless person or that he expected us all to be joyless as well. The Middle Way.
One can love without clinging. One can respect without worshiping. One can care without overwhelming. One can be sexual without being deviant or obsessive.
IMO -- if one is not planning on becoming a monk, yet believes sex is something to avoid at all costs in the name of Buddhism and enlightenment, (or any other religion or religious 'rules')... then one should honestly explore the real inner/deeper motivation for this avoidance.
My counsel was for compassion for where you happen to be right now rather than denigrating yourself for being somewhere you'd prefer not to be. One position has the potential for awakening where the other just partakes of what keeps us all in samsara.
Giving up sex=prostate problems
I was honestly expecting you would accuse me of trolling again lol
Buddha's Vajrayana teachings show how to transform worldly activity into the path of Liberation. So in effect it is an easier path to traverse as it is very lay people friendly.
A grouchy person is far from eliminating those hindrances.
The five hindrances are: ill will, craving, dullnes-sloth, restless worry, and doubt
Doubt:
"Doubt refers to the disturbing inner questions at a time when one should be silently moving deeper. Doubt can question one's own ability "Can I do This?", or question the method "Is this the right way?", or even question the meaning "What is this?". It should be remembered that such questions are obstacles to meditation because they are asked at the wrong time and thus become an intrusion, obscuring one's clarity."[web 2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_hindrances
I can't imagine sanctioning the five hindrances as something that we can keep ahold of and feel happy. It would be like banging your head against a wall and saying it is good. Experiment with the five hindrances and see if they are wise or foolish.
I think it is hard for anybody to remove those hindrances permanently, especially sensual craving, but I don't think it is impossible. It depends on factors such as personality and how serious (yet not tense about it) you are.
I don't think it'll be possible for me but still I want to become a monk. Not to fight my desires but to get to know them better. Then I'll see what happens. And that's the kind of attitude I think is healthy for everybody. If you step in expecting you can remove all sense desire, you could be in for a lot of stress and that certainly is not what the path is for.
Misguided man, it were better for you (as one gone forth) that your member should enter the mouth of a hideous, venomous viper or cobra than that it should enter a woman. It were better for you that your member should enter a pit of coals burning, blazing and glowing than that it should enter a woman. Why is that? For the former reason you would risk death or deadly suffering, but you would not, on the dissolution of the body after death, reappear in a state of privation, in an unhappy destination, in perdition, even in hell
this goes for men and women who are not married
Yes, I think some people have to let go of sexual activities first before they can even think about removing sensual craving either temporarily or permanently. But others might go with sexual activities up until the point they remove sensual craving totally. I don't know why I think this, but I guess it's a feeling. Although I also vaguely recall something about a twin in the suttas who were at sort of the same spot in practice: while one was sexually active and the other wasn't.
The problem, then of course is determining what kind of people we ourselves are. It's hard to say. Because of attachments the mind may think in all sorts of ways to defend itself. This goes both ways, attachments to sex, but also attachments to ideas of how we should practice.
Just my 2 cents.
I am just so super human . . .
sorry . . .
It is possible. Not by next Tuesday. Not by everyone. Not necessary. Did you actually intend or want to be celibate?
Some people suffer through relationships. Some through not having relationships. Some by trying to be super human, super mundane or superman.
What many will tell you and have, that may be of real benefit, is that practical efforts towards the Middle Way will improve your being. Apart from battling with our libido and losing, what efforts can you recommend for Lois Lane, Clark Kent and those seeking from where they are?
You seem to be suffering over this? I would recommend a lit bit of lee way. A little kindness, a little acceptance of flaws. Perhaps starting with your own . . .
When one enters and remains in one of the jhanas, one has temporarily freed their mind from the hindrances, yes; but their complete abandonment/transcendence isn't necessary. One can subdue the hindrances without resorting to 'superhuman' feats. This, actually, reminds me of a meditation retreat I attended last year that was led by one of my teachers, Ajahn Sudanto, at Wat Atam in Woodinville, WA. The theme of one of his Dhamma talks centred on a comparison between the process of building a fire using the bow method and the process of developing mindfulness, and how consistency of effort and the right materials are the key.
Essentially, our minds aren't really conditioned to focus on a single object for long periods of time and are easily distracted, especially by the five hindrances, i.e., sensual desires (covetous or greed for pleasurable sense experiences), anger/ill will, sloth and torpor, restlessness and worry, and skeptical doubt/uncertainty. Ajahn Sudanto gave the image of them (taken from Ajahn Sona) as things pulling the mind, pushing the mind, the mind rising up, the mind sinking down, and the mind spinning around.
To counter these mental states, which are like trying to use wet, rotten logs and grasses to start a fire, the meditator seeks to develop the five factors of the first jhana — i.e., applied thought, sustained thought, happiness, joy, and one-pointedness of mind — which are like using nice, dry logs and grasses to start a fire when consistent effort and energy is put into vigorously sawing the drill until it starts to heat up and ignites the kindling, which here represents using applied and sustained thought with consistent effort and energy to keep the meditation object, the breath, in mind.
And the smoke in the analogy is the beginning of mindfulness and the accompanying joy and happiness that arise when the mind starts to become one-pointed, a combination of mental and bodily pleasure that can eventually be used to develop even more refined states of concentration and enjoyment, free the mind of the hindrances, and open it up for arising of insight. Celibacy can definitely be helpful in this regard, but it's certainly not a requirement, in my opinion.
I can sum this ^ up in just a few words:
Religious sexual oppression & repression - and the demonizing of Woman as the Temptress.
Every patriarchal religion uses it to some extent or another. (Eve and the apple anyone?)
I choose not to believe these were the Buddha's words to lay people, any more than I believe/d Jesus totally ignored women in his life, nor allowed them to become apostles and spread his word.
For Jesus to do that or feel that way towards (all) women, he would be judging them and assigning 'sin' where there was none. I don't believe he created woman as nothing more than Baby makers and caregivers of Men. That is Man's religiously inspired 'fantasy' world. (AKA; Bible 'stories')
Same with Buddha. He can show compassion for men; be they robbers, or abusers, drinkers or liars.... but women? Those evil beings who "make men forget about religion" and only think about sex, sex, sex?
Oh no, Keep them out of the temples, away from men of the monastery, and keep them where they belong- in the house raising children. Men were seen as 'admirable' no matter what; even if they left their wife and children to seek the life of a religious monk. Yeah, what a 'perfect' world- for Man and his religion...
This is why I choose to live as a Secular Buddhist.
"I choose not to believe these were the Buddha's words to lay people, any more than I believe/d Jesus totally ignored women in his life, or didn't allow them to become apostles and spread his word."
Sorry, typing before coffee syndrome.
There is some really good talk on it here. One of the better explanations I have come across. http://www.forestdhamma.org/ebooks/english/pdf/Arahattamagga_-_Arahattaphala.pdf
This is an excerpt. This section starts on page 40. But the whole entire e-book is quite good! Of course the book is "The Path to Arahantship" and the author is speaking in the context of actually becoming a real life arahant. But if you are not looking to become an arahant and are just looking to lead a good moral life, gain some wisdom and perhaps have a good rebirth, you don't need to abandon sexuality. You just need to not engage in misconduct regarding it. Many of the teachings that are real strict about sexuality are a monks teaching, not a laypersons teaching. One of the important things I learned from a previous poster on this forum, is to learn how to differentiate between monks teachings and laypersons teaching. And not to mistake a monks teaching for something that is applicable for you or for everyone! The two are often quite different! But of course, if a layperson wants to more strictly follow a monks teaching, there is nothing wrong with that either.
Sex is what you make of it. If you make a big deal out of sex, then it becomes a Big Deal. And as such, it probably isn't healthy because it will lead to feelings of repression, resentment, and "purity"-- and so sex is transformed into mere "sour grapes." It's just the SOS (Same Old Samsara).
Most of the time it really is just a case of sour grapes which in turn manifests itself into misogyny on an individual (and often collective and institutional) level.
@seeker242
Is it 'just me' ? or are you getting a little bit soft and fluffy around the edges lately?
( I'm just teasing... with love)
Regarding sexuality I have heard that orgasm is the driving force for why people are reborn. Please, lets not discuss rebirth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (unless you really want to