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Omni, it's not like that everywhere. I see that you live in South Carolina, perhaps the culture of your state has a lot to do with it. I live in a very big "deer" state, and I have never in my life heard of that "ritual" - that sounds barbaric and ridiculous. I agree that vegetarians are often ostracized and made fun of, but at least here in Michigan, it's certainly NOT to that degree.
Unfortunately, around here the male child of a mighty hunter actually looks forward to killing his first deer and going through that barbaric rite of passage. Hunters really don't think there is anything odd in the practice since that's what their dad did for them. I agree that it is the local mentality, repulsive as it is to even most people who eat meat. It's a "hunter" thing....
None of the hunters I know do it for the meat. It's for the sport of it all.
And I agree with you, Elohim. I haven't seen anything mean or offensive in any of the discussions here; I was referring to the work-a-day world i have been captured in for so long. It has just been frustrating that people seem to want to attack and flaunt meat eating simply because they know i'm a vegetarian. I never have made a big deal of it but others seem to think it is really fun to describe their eating habits and the quality of the piece meat they happen to be eating. That is where the mean-spiritedness comes in. It is just plain bad manners, if nothing else.
I have tried on occasion to explain why I became vegetarian but the responses I got were less than receptive and clearly not from an open mind. The accumulated experience over the past 35 years has just made me wonder why an open dialogue seems to be impossible?
I am sorry that my ego automatically assumes that everything is about me. Hehe. I have actually found myself in a similar circumstance here in Santa Cruz, although reversed. Many of the people here are vegetarian (Maybe you should move out here). Some treat people who eat meat negatively. It's not as harsh as your experience, but people just have real trouble accepting different ideas. Most people hold so tightly to what they do and it becomes the "right" thing. If you eat meat then you defend it because you think this opinion is "yours". The same with vegetarians. I tried to ask politely aout why my roomate became vegan and he reacted by snapping at me and acting as if I was attacking his choice. I was merely curious. I think he reacted because he assumed that I was against it or something. People cannot talk about these things because 1. They assume they are being attacked and automatically defend their position. 2. Are just raised poorly and have no respect and manners. 3. Have too much ignorance to see where they may be wrong, that they are not always right, or others feelings. This is the teaching of anatta in practice. Peoples opinions become part of their "selves" and they instinctually defend their "selves". So now they have the "right" views, choices, ideas, because nobody likes to be "wrong". People can just be plain stupid too. Some lack even an ounce of compassion and don't care if they are hurting another by their speech or actions. But one day, maybe when they are old, they will realize how mean they were and then regret wasting their lives by being such pricks. At the very least you can have a clear conscience that you tried to help people understand your choice without being rude, violent, or just plain ignorant.
Elohim,
I feel that many of these negative responses are due to people’s identification with a label. It seems that when we make a decision based on "what other people think" we are immediately trapped in a fear driven position. Then because we are identified with the label we feel it is a personal attack on our being. If we simply adopt the ideas without internalizing them, actually breathing our own life into them, we cannot possibly "defend our decision". That in of itself is a funny little life koan because if we have made a clear and deeply thought out decision we will not be threatened by anyone’s opinion. We will be well armed to defend our position but it is unlikely we will even feel the need to do so. It brings to mind a teaching by Bodhidharma
Buddhas don’t save Buddhas. If you use your mind to look for a Buddha, you won’t see the Buddha. As long as you look for a Buddha somewhere else, you’ll never see that your own mind is the Buddha. Don’t use a Buddha to worship a Buddha. And don’t use the mind to invoke a Buddha." Buddhas don’t recite sutras." Buddhas don’t keep precepts." And Buddhas don’t break precepts.Buddhas don’t keep or break anything. Buddhas don’t do good or evil.
This is the crux of this whole post. Don't follow the precept just because the Buddha said. Science is a theory based practice. Find the answers for yourself. Don’t take anybody’s word for anything. We must breathe life into the precepts or else they are just rocks in the road.
If i find answers for myself, possibly after years of thinking as clearly and objectively as I can and have reached conclusions about the subject..such as becoming vegetarian, or non-violent or whatever... how then do i disassociate myself from a feeling of ownership and identifying with the position?
I don't personally believe that disagreements with my viewpoint are direct attacks on me as a person, but they are clearly (?) attacks on the conclusions I have drawn. Arguing to defend a position is fruitless but isn't it appropriate to share information about the decision process as an opportunity for the other person to learn? Do I keep silent or try to share knowledge?
Or, is it most appropriate for the other person to find answers on their own when they are ready to look for them?
Hi I am new to this forum. But just had to reply to the topic of Meat -eater or Vegan. Being native American as well as buddhist. When people ask me if I am a meat -eater or Vagen ( as they like to be called here) I simply reply i am niether and both. I am part of the circle of life. And as part of that circle, I thank both the animal and the plant for the food it provides. Example, If I pick a ripe tomatoe off a plant in my garden, I thank it for the wonderful fruit I am about to partake in. If I Am preparing a chicken breast for my family, I thank the Chicken for the wonderful gift he or she has given.
Thus I am a part of the circle of life.
Yes welcome. I was telling my wife the other day that I was thinking of cutting out red meat in my diet. She made a little joke saying, "I just don't know you anymore" and "What happenned to the man I married?". I had to laugh. Just so everyone knows my wife is very supportive in everything I do. I thought about it and everyone knows about my allergy to fruits and vegetables so I think I will just cut down on red meat but not completely. I have already cut out a lot of fried meats. A hamburger once in a while or a pork chop isn't too bad. My inlaws are BBQing today so we are going over. My wife is making bacon now and asked me if I wanted any but I passed. Lately the grease just upsets my stomach. I am not against people eating meat but I do hate that they treat the animals badly. In the old days the chickens ran around the farm and they killed one when they were going to eat it. The chickens were not treated badly. So why do they do it now?
All I know is, I was a vegetarian from the moment I was born. I was a vegetarian before I was Buddhist and to me, it's not a question of religion. I don't like the knowledge that what is sitting on your plate used to be walking around, making noise, trying to live. Eating human flesh is just as bad as eating cow, or pig, or chicken, and there's no excuse because I survive perfectly well without meat. It's not all lentil burgers and nut roasts, either - in this day and age I can eat a product that looks, tastes and smells like meat.
Sorry, all you carnivores, but I just don't see the appeal, personally!
A point I forgot Rhidee,, thanks,, I stopped eating animals before having anything to do with Buddhism as well.. in fact the Dharma was attractive to me because of the compassion and Ahimsa as its foundation. Being vegetarian isnt an attachment or label for me any more than being a boy girl or human is. It just IS ,, and to talk about it we use that term. ITs a world of nama rupa.
I have Kinlee,,, I think all omnivores should view it so they can at least make an educated decision. The person who made the movie and wrote the book, John Robbins, also has an organization and website called Earthsave. (For those who dont know him) He is the heir to the Baskin Robbins fortune but turned it down for the reasons of issues like factory farming the cows go thru to produce the milk to make the ice cream. His son Ocean has a Youth activism group called YES. On a different note,, I understand the "Circle of life" but I dont believe eating animals ( sentient beings) need to be a part of that circle for humans. There is indisputable evidence that we can eat a healthy well balanced complete nutrition diet without the use of animals. The exceptions would be someone like our friend with the veggie allergy or indigenous people in places where they dont have other protein options like tofu and peanut butter. How parasitic we choose to be is a personal decision ,, in our diets and other ways like how much we take and how much we give in this lifetime. If we are believers of karma, and are aware of the pain and suffering we are bringning to those factory farmed animals by choosing to buy them,,, how can we not expect to experience the same in this life or another?
The movie presented a bigger picture of upsetting the balance of natural ecosystem by eating meat. It was really an awesome documentary which really struck me to go for vegetarian diet (on the way there, but not yet). It provides with convincing reasons taking up vegetarian diet.
John Robbins is someone similar to Price Siddarthar, a man who gave up luxury life for the betterment of mankind.
I watched the documentary ample times, I can sense that there are Buddhism values in it. Really good stuff.
Personally, I think, he might be a Bodhisattva in disguise.
you have to bear in mind that a lot of what makes this person popular is his turnings of a phrase, laying the "smack down", etc.
but he makes some very good points about "what we believe to be vegetarianism" and "since I don't eat meat - i have a positive affect on the earth" mentality.
i think one way to think of things is: there is big business. no matter what it is - a lot of it comes down to profit margins, dividends, bonuses, etc. he makes a great point about "pests" being eliminated - which basically means herbivores being killed because they're cutting in on profit margins.
this reminds me of a book on buddhism i read. there was a chapter where the author was talking about the commandment of "thou shalt not lie". he was also making a point that many, morale people believe that telling a lie is bad.
but buddhism looks more at "right intent".
his next statement was, "so supposed you're in a house with some jews hiding upstairs. the gestapo knock on your door and ask if you if you have jews hiding upstairs."
what comes into play better? "THOU SHALT NOT LIE" or "right intention".
please don't be offended by the article i posted - i just thought he made good sense about some "truths" - not all - just some.
I'm not offended. I figure that those vegetarians that are high on themselves need to be shocked by something like this. I like to plant vegatable gardens for my fmaily but the bugs are a problem. I think the best way to deal with them is to grow in a green house. It won't get rid of the bugs but it will reduce them.
Comic,
I don't, I just give them something else to munch on, Things like Marigolds - Aphids. Or I sometimes use Diatimatious Earth for Slugs and Snails, and Copper tubing for Ants. But my main source of Bug control is Birds, I keep a small refecting pond clean and a few sunflowers around. And they just love it. Every since I have invited them to come in , I have not had any real problems with bugs. May I also suggest that for really sweet tomatoes, don't move them around just add some leaf mulch over the winter. They will be twice as sweet the next year.
I guess today is my day for Trungpa stories. The first time I saw Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche was when he came to Evanston (near Chicago) in 1975, I think it was. First off he gave an excellent teaching before he even came in the room. He was like an hour and a half late, and all the people who came in all spiritual and everything were ready to rip him apart when he finally waltzed in. I was sitting there thinking, "This is great!" So I immediately fell in love with him.
At the end of the talk, he took questions. One person asked if, as Buddhists, we shouldn't refrain from eating meat because it is killing. Trungpa replied, "Why? I have claws and fangs, don't I?"
And as for what the Buddha actually said about it, all he said was it's OK to eat meat unless it was killed specifically for you. And that only applies to ordained, those who keep the precepts.
By the way, are you aware how many sentient beings are killed when a field of, say, rice or corn is harvested? Is the life of an insect less valuable than the life of a cow or a chicken?
Comic,
you are not wrong, But what I don't understand is why people seem to put more value on Animals and Insects than they do Vegitation? Without Vegitation there would be no insects or animals. OR human kind for that matter. It is my belief that we need to consider all things Plant, Animal and Insect. Because without any one of these, we would not have the other.
MoonLgt - we also grow vegetables and herbs in our backyard and we do not use any pesticides. We use a lot of spiders!
I am vegetarian and feel that I need to "stick up" for some of us vegetarians. Not all vegetarins feel as though they are better than anyone else. It frustrates me when I read things about how vegetarians think they are better than everyone else because they do not eat meat, and that's just not true. It doesn't bother me if people eat meat, nor would I ever criticize anyone for what they eat. That's like criticizing someone for being a different religion than you...I just don't think it is right. I personally do not eat meat because it grosses me out. I can't stand to bite into a piece of flesh, let alone a piece of animal fat - YUCK. I don't put any more value on the life of a cow than I do on the life of an insect. Life is life. I try my best not to kill any living thing, but some things end up being killed in order to sustain our own lives. It is just a part of life.
Comic,
you are not wrong, But what I don't understand is why people seem to put more value on Animals and Insects than they do Vegitation? Without Vegitation there would be no insects or animals. OR human kind for that matter. It is my belief that we need to consider all things Plant, Animal and Insect. Because without any one of these, we would not have the other.
You have not read enough of my posts on this subject. I am a big defender of plantlife. I have made the argument that plants are actually enlightened beings that are here to keep us alive. The vegetable gladly gives it's life to save ours. But I also feel we should leave the plants alone. That's why we should eat more meat.
You have not read enough of my posts on this subject. I am a big defender of plantlife. I have made the argument that plants are actually enlightened beings that are here to keep us alive. The vegetable gladly gives it's life to save ours. But I also feel we should leave the plants alone. That's why we should eat more meat.
I see your point, and yes I agree with you that plants are too enlightened beings. The reason why Buddhist take veg because vegetables/plants have lesser emotions than animals. Because, in the minds of animals especially at the point being slaughtered, they are more or less in pain/desperation/angry and probably die with a thought of revenge. This thought of anger and revenge is a seed that will have an karmic consequences of lost of live in future when condition arises.
An it is true that plants may feel the pain too, but it is signifcantly lesser than animals.
It is good to look at a bigger picture. What is at stake is enormous, because keeping large numbers of chickens in close confinement inevitably leads to diseases and big social problems (pollutions in water and air cause by the waste produced). We may be sealing our fate of obesity/cancers etc by what we eat. This is also a cause which overtime will have significant consequences, affecting not only us, but also our future generations to come.
A talk by the Buddhist teacher Thich Naht Hanh on Mindful Consumption
All things need food to be alive and to grow, including our love or our hate. Love is a living thing, hate is a living thing. If you do not nourish your love, it will die. If you cut the source of nutriment for your violence, your violence will also die. That is why the path shown by the Buddha is the path of mindful consumption.
The Buddha told the following story. There was a couple who wanted to cross the desert to go to another country in order to seek freedom. They brought with them their little boy and a quantity of food and water. But they did not calculate well, and that is why halfway through the desert they ran out of food, and they knew that they were going to die. So after a lot of anguish, they decided to eat the little boy so that they could survive and go to the other country, and that's what they did. And every time they ate a piece of flesh from their son, they cried.
The Buddha asked his monks, "My dear friends: Do you think that the couple enjoyed eating the flesh of their son?" The Buddha said, "It is impossible to enjoy eating the flesh of our son. If you do not eat mindfully, you are eating the flesh of your son and daughter, you are eating the flesh of your parent."
If we look deeply, we will see that eating can be extremely violent. UNESCO tells us that every day, forty thousand children in the world die because of a lack of nutrition, of food. Every day, forty thousand children. And the amount of grain that we grow in the West is mostly used to feed our cattle. Eighty percent of the corn grown in this country is to feed the cattle to make meat. Ninety-five percent of the oats produced in this country is not for us to eat, but for the animals raised for food. According to this recent report that we received of all the agricultural land in the US, eighty-seven percent is used to raise animals for food. That is forty-five percent of the total land mass in the US.
More than half of all the water consumed in the US whole purpose is to raise animals for food. It takes 2500 gallons of water to produce a pound of meat, but only 25 gallons to produce a pound of wheat. A totally vegetarian diet requires 300 gallons of water per day, while a meat-eating diet requires more than 4000 gallons of water per day.
Raising animals for food causes more water pollution than any other industry in the US because animals raised for food produce one hundred thirty times the excrement of the entire human population. It means 87,000 pounds per second. Much of the waste from factory farms and slaughter houses flows into streams and rivers, contaminating water sources.
Each vegetarian can save one acre of trees per year. More than 260 million acres of US forests have been cleared to grow crops to feed animals raised for meat. And another acre of trees disappears every eight seconds. The tropical rain forests are also being destroyed to create grazing land for cattle.
In the US, animals raised for food are fed more than eighty percent of the corn we grow and more than ninety-five percent of the oats. We are eating our country, we are eating our earth, we are eating our children. And I have learned that more than half the people in this country overeat.
Mindful eating can help maintain compassion within our heart. A person without compassion cannot be happy, cannot relate to other human beings and to other living beings. And eating the flesh of our own son is what is going on in the world, because we do not practice mindful eating.
The Buddha spoke about the second kind of food that we consume every day -- sense impressions -- the kind of food that we take in by the way of the eyes, the ears, the tongue, the body, and the mind. When we read a magazine, we consume. When you watch television, you consume. When you listen to a conversation, you consume. And these items can be highly toxic. There may be a lot of poisons, like craving, like violence, like anger, and despair. We allow ourselves to be intoxicated by what we consume in terms of sense impressions. We allow our children to intoxicate themselves because of these products. That is why it is very important to look deeply into our ill-being, into the nature of our ill-being, in order to recognize the sources of nutriment we have used to bring it into us and into our society.
The Buddha had this to say: "What has come to be - if you know how to look deeply into its nature and identify its source of nutriment, you are already on the path of emancipation." What has come to be is our illness, our ill-being, our suffering, our violence, our despair. And if you practice looking deeply, meditation, you'll be able to identify the sources of nutriments, of food, that has brought it into us.
Therefore the whole nation has to practice looking deeply into the nature of what we consume every day. And consuming mindfully is the only way to protect our nation, ourselves, and our society. We have to learn how to consume mindfully as a family, as a city, as a nation. We have to learn what to produce and what not to produce in order to provide our people with only the items that are nourishing and healing. We have to refrain from producing the kinds of items that bring war and despair into our body, into our consciousness, and into the collective body and consciousness of our nation, our society. And Congress has to practice that. We have elected members of the Congress. We expect them to practice deeply, listening to the suffering of the people, to the real causes of that suffering, and to make the kind of laws that can protect us from self-destruction. And America is great. I have the conviction that you can do it and help the world. You can offer the world wisdom, mindfulness, and compassion.
Nowadays I enjoy places where people do not smoke. There are nonsmoking flights that you can enjoy. Ten years ago they did not exist, nonsmoking flights. And in America on every box of cigarettes there is the message: "Beware: Smoking can be hazardous to your health." That is a bell of mindfulness. That is the practice of mindful consumption. You do not say that you are practicing mindfulness, but you are really practicing mindfulness. Mindfulness of smoking is what allowed you to see that smoking is not healthy.
In America, people are very aware of the food they eat. They want every package of food to be labeled so that they can know what is in it. They don't want to eat the kind of food that will bring toxins and poisons into their bodies. This is the practice of mindful eating.
But we can go further. We can do better, as parents, as teachers, as artists and as politicians. If you are a teacher, you can contribute a lot in awakening people of the need for mindful consumption, because that is the way to real emancipation. If you are a journalist, you have the means to educate people, to wake people up to the nature of our situation. Every one of us can transform himself or herself into a bodhisattva doing the work of awakening. Because only awakening can help us to stop the course we are taking, the course of destruction. Then we will know in which direction we should go to make the earth a safe place for us, for our children, and for their children.
I am reading a great book right now called "The Zen of Eating". I am only on about page 25, but it is an excellent book. I highly recommend it to anyone interested in the subject of how what we eat affects us differently and how to better practice "mindful eating".
I was reading a great post by kinlee about the eating of meat, animals raised for this purpose and other things that we do that are "not right mindedness".
So... you know me - I thought I would add some of my thoughts .... YET AGAIN!!!!!
The eating of food, in the way our civilization is today, brings about death. If you are not growing your own vegetables - animals are dying in the process of your food being made - whether it be plant or animal life. If you have not planted the plants yourself and harvested them - you really have no idea what is happening.
Maybe we should just quit raising grain and such that is used for animal feed. A lot of this type of crop is not suitable for human consumption and probably couldn't be used - unless it was processed in a way to make it "funtionally consumable" for the human digestive system.
Millions of animals are killed each year with the harvesting of crops. Many "corporations" and even private land-owners hire people to kill pesky vermin like deer, elk, rabbits, etc that are destroying their "cash" crops. Not to mention animals that are killed from the combines. Just think of all the chickens that are kept in cages where they can't even move - living in enclosed buildings with "unnatural lighting" that screws up their system into thinking a "day" is only eight hours - so they produce more eggs. In cages where their feet are deformed and grow "into" the cages - from being forced to stand their entire life. Even if you use "naturally nested" eggs - what about the products that are made from the eggs of "non naturally nested" chickens?
We should also stop killing animals that are used for the harvest of various chemicals that we use, as humans, to heal ourselves. Why are these animals lives not as precious as ours? Or the lives of our cats and dogs? Why should they be killed or bred in captivity for the harvesting of, oh let's say, insulen - so that we or our pets can live?
Countless animals and species die as rain forests are cleared for corporate hamburger joints to make new room for cattle to be raise. The same corporations that provide us with our "vegetarian meals".
Not to mention that once these areas of rain forest are cleared - the land is basically ruined forever. The rainforests were developed over millinea - they can't just be torn down and raise back up at will.
How do people prepare for the work day? Have the products that you are using to shave the whiskers off of your face, hold your hair in place, keep your armpits from smelling, to give you "longer, lusher lasting looking eyelashes" or "deep long lasting color to keep you looking young!" been tested on animals? What happens to it when you wash it down the drain in the sink or tub? What about the testing of these things on animals? Sprays and chemicals directly applied to open wounds or eyes of animals trapped in labratories?
Or cleaning our clothes? The spot cleaners? The dry cleaners? The soaps and suds we put into tubs of water that just get dumped into our water systems? Or driving our cars? Driving our cars that drip and leak and sputter? Have you ever seen rain water running off from parking lots? Or what abbut fertilizing our lawns? Or food and household items that come in these really great plastic bags that we just throw in the garbage that gets thrown into a hole that doesn't deteriorate for thousands of years? Or the "throw-away" tupperware-like products that can just be "tossed" for conveniences sake? Or the batteries that won't run our toys anymore - we just chuck them in the garbage - which eventually leak into our land and water systems? Or tires from our cars that we drive? Why do tires go bald? Where does the tire go to? It just doesn't disappear.
Just think about the amount of garbage each one of us generates in a week or a month? Where does that go? Do you ensure that it's being properly disposed of? Or the water we waste on keeping our lawns to keep them green. Think of the thousands, if not millions, of people that don't have clean drinking water - and all the water we're hogging. America is a country glutted on the wasted use of electricity, water, power, fuel, etc.
It's my thinking that there is too much emphasis put on things that are now politically incorrect. We get up in arms about smoking and eating meat - when there are hundreds, if not thousands, of things we do on a daily, weekly and yearly basis that are just as harmful.
I have friends who smoke. I used to smoke years ago. I recognize that smoking is bad for you. I also recognize that people who smoke know it's bad for them.
But, did you know that any foreign agent in your lungs really isn't good for you? Wood from hobbyists or laborers sanding without protection? Cleaners, fumes, particulates, etc. Incense? How can inhaling smoke from incense be good for a person? But I believe that a lot of people take up the banner of not smoking and use it to look down on people that do. Smokers are just not people who are hurting themselves. They're below us. They're looked at, by some, with ridicule and vulgarity.
Buddha lived in a time of great suffering. People had to work, and work hard, just to get by. There were no supermarkets, no bistros, no Subways, no McDonalds, no Starbucks - if you didn't raise it or couldn't buy it from someone who did - you eventually died.
I don't think Buddha could have envisioned a world like the world we live in today. I think his lessons would have changed in many ways. Ways that make us look past the pleasant packaging of our favorite foods - our new and improved cleaners - our lush, green weed free lawns - our meatier tasting cat foods - our more manly smell - our active and energetic lifestyles - our longer lasting color - our medications that keep us living longer - our medications that kill the condition that could kill us (just think of all the chemicals used in the making of more chemicals for us to ingest! - when really, if we lived in Buddha's time - we would have just died) - our favorite sit-com - our best selling novel - our internet connectivity - our favorite carbonated beverage - I can keep going here....
While I believe that we should be mindful - I don't think being mindful in ways that "suit what we like to or dislike to do" is actually being mindful.
Being mindful should start and reflect in all manners of our lives. What we ingest, what we excrete. What we keep, what we throw away. And not taking the time to figure out where all of these niceties come from is not being mindful. Being ignorant of how we come by everything that makes "our" life comfortable is not being mindful. Just because you are ignorant of how your food comes to you, where you get your power, what the corporations do that provide you with the things "you" want - doesn't mean that you aren't supporting it.
You make some very good points. The fact is that humans destroy the world in which we live more and more each day. There is no way around it...all we can do is try our hardest to do our part to conserve earth as much as possible. It makes me feel good when I walk out to my garden to pick the veggies we are going to eat, but then there I feel bad about getting in my car and driving to work the next day and harming the environment. You just can't get around harming the environment in some ways!
When I was writing that - I was initially just trying to make some points regarding being a omnivore -vs- herbivore.
But then, as I kept writing, I kept thinking of more and more things that I do in my life that have consequences that I really don't pay any attention to.
I just have a sinking feeling that there are so many things that humans/I do that do not have good karma associated with them. I also think "right mindedness" must include deciding not to be ignorant of these things and do what you can to prevent them.
I was just reading an article about old computers. Old computers that many companies send over to 3rd world countries - because there is land to store them. Huge valleys of old computers nobody wants anymore. And the people that have to live there - or choose to live there - in awful conditions that try to squeeze out a living by burning precious metals off of computer boards with toxic acids and such. It just made me feel awful.
I've also read that the "computer" industry is one of the "dirtiest" industries in modern times. All the plastic packaging and stuff that really isn't degradable in any realistic sense.
Ugh...that article about old computers is awful! I can't believe that actually happens. Yesterday, my husband and I took our daughter to a really nice park by our house that we always go to. There is this beautiful little pond and the same 4 ducks are always there, so we always feed them. Well, we walked down to the pond, and someone had obviously been fishing there. They left a bunch of fishing line just laying all over the pier, they drank an entire case of water and decided to throw all 12 empty bottles into the pond, along with some beer and soda cans, and all of the plastic wrapping that the water came in. I was so upset! How could anyone do that?? And one of the ducks was suddenly injured, so I am not sure if that same person did something to one of the ducks. We picked up all of their trash but could not get all of the water bottles, and we threw it all away in a garbage can that was right near the park. I get so upset when I see that stuff!
This wasn't the original article I read - nor the original image I saw. The original image I saw looked like the area of 3 or 4 football fields filled with old computers and computer junk.
That entire article is sad, but this part is really sad:
"Other laborers, making $1.50 a day and working with little or no protection, burned plastics and circuit boards or poured acid on electronic parts to extract silver and gold. Many pried open printer cartridges — whose hazards are uncertain — and smashed lead-laden cathode ray tubes from computer monitors, the report said."
Buddhafoot - it is people like you that have given me phobia of cancer, paranoia about what I eat. Although I am grateful for information, the more I learn the more I am terrified! I use SLS and paraben free products, I don't eat meat, I feed my daughter free range and organic, I use cloth nappies and recycle the water out of the shower for the nappy bucket. And yet it is still not enough!! And if my neighbor doesnt do the same, I wonder what the point is...
I was reading a great post by kinlee about the eating of meat, animals raised for this purpose and other things that we do that are "not right mindedness".
So... you know me - I thought I would add some of my thoughts .... YET AGAIN!!!!!
The eating of food, in the way our civilization is today, brings about death. If you are not growing your own vegetables - animals are dying in the process of your food being made - whether it be plant or animal life. If you have not planted the plants yourself and harvested them - you really have no idea what is happening.
Maybe we should just quit raising grain and such that is used for animal feed. A lot of this type of crop is not suitable for human consumption and probably couldn't be used - unless it was processed in a way to make it "funtionally consumable" for the human digestive system.
Millions of animals are killed each year with the harvesting of crops. Many "corporations" and even private land-owners hire people to kill pesky vermin like deer, elk, rabbits, etc that are destroying their "cash" crops. Not to mention animals that are killed from the combines. Just think of all the chickens that are kept in cages where they can't even move - living in enclosed buildings with "unnatural lighting" that screws up their system into thinking a "day" is only eight hours - so they produce more eggs. In cages where their feet are deformed and grow "into" the cages - from being forced to stand their entire life. Even if you use "naturally nested" eggs - what about the products that are made from the eggs of "non naturally nested" chickens?
We should also stop killing animals that are used for the harvest of various chemicals that we use, as humans, to heal ourselves. Why are these animals lives not as precious as ours? Or the lives of our cats and dogs? Why should they be killed or bred in captivity for the harvesting of, oh let's say, insulen - so that we or our pets can live?
Countless animals and species die as rain forests are cleared for corporate hamburger joints to make new room for cattle to be raise. The same corporations that provide us with our "vegetarian meals".
Not to mention that once these areas of rain forest are cleared - the land is basically ruined forever. The rainforests were developed over millinea - they can't just be torn down and raise back up at will.
How do people prepare for the work day? Have the products that you are using to shave the whiskers off of your face, hold your hair in place, keep your armpits from smelling, to give you "longer, lusher lasting looking eyelashes" or "deep long lasting color to keep you looking young!" been tested on animals? What happens to it when you wash it down the drain in the sink or tub? What about the testing of these things on animals? Sprays and chemicals directly applied to open wounds or eyes of animals trapped in labratories?
Or cleaning our clothes? The spot cleaners? The dry cleaners? The soaps and suds we put into tubs of water that just get dumped into our water systems? Or driving our cars? Driving our cars that drip and leak and sputter? Have you ever seen rain water running off from parking lots? Or what abbut fertilizing our lawns? Or food and household items that come in these really great plastic bags that we just throw in the garbage that gets thrown into a hole that doesn't deteriorate for thousands of years? Or the "throw-away" tupperware-like products that can just be "tossed" for conveniences sake? Or the batteries that won't run our toys anymore - we just chuck them in the garbage - which eventually leak into our land and water systems? Or tires from our cars that we drive? Why do tires go bald? Where does the tire go to? It just doesn't disappear.
Just think about the amount of garbage each one of us generates in a week or a month? Where does that go? Do you ensure that it's being properly disposed of? Or the water we waste on keeping our lawns to keep them green. Think of the thousands, if not millions, of people that don't have clean drinking water - and all the water we're hogging. America is a country glutted on the wasted use of electricity, water, power, fuel, etc.
It's my thinking that there is too much emphasis put on things that are now politically incorrect. We get up in arms about smoking and eating meat - when there are hundreds, if not thousands, of things we do on a daily, weekly and yearly basis that are just as harmful.
I have friends who smoke. I used to smoke years ago. I recognize that smoking is bad for you. I also recognize that people who smoke know it's bad for them.
But, did you know that any foreign agent in your lungs really isn't good for you? Wood from hobbyists or laborers sanding without protection? Cleaners, fumes, particulates, etc. Incense? How can inhaling smoke from incense be good for a person? But I believe that a lot of people take up the banner of not smoking and use it to look down on people that do. Smokers are just not people who are hurting themselves. They're below us. They're looked at, by some, with ridicule and vulgarity.
Buddha lived in a time of great suffering. People had to work, and work hard, just to get by. There were no supermarkets, no bistros, no Subways, no McDonalds, no Starbucks - if you didn't raise it or couldn't buy it from someone who did - you eventually died.
I don't think Buddha could have envisioned a world like the world we live in today. I think his lessons would have changed in many ways. Ways that make us look past the pleasant packaging of our favorite foods - our new and improved cleaners - our lush, green weed free lawns - our meatier tasting cat foods - our more manly smell - our active and energetic lifestyles - our longer lasting color - our medications that keep us living longer - our medications that kill the condition that could kill us (just think of all the chemicals used in the making of more chemicals for us to ingest! - when really, if we lived in Buddha's time - we would have just died) - our favorite sit-com - our best selling novel - our internet connectivity - our favorite carbonated beverage - I can keep going here....
While I believe that we should be mindful - I don't think being mindful in ways that "suit what we like to or dislike to do" is actually being mindful.
Being mindful should start and reflect in all manners of our lives. What we ingest, what we excrete. What we keep, what we throw away. And not taking the time to figure out where all of these niceties come from is not being mindful. Being ignorant of how we come by everything that makes "our" life comfortable is not being mindful. Just because you are ignorant of how your food comes to you, where you get your power, what the corporations do that provide you with the things "you" want - doesn't mean that you aren't supporting it.
I'll get off my soap-box now...
Michael
I was thingking of writing something like that, but I see you where faster than me, and you made some points(???) that I think I wouldnt have come up with :bigclap: , I think I will try to eat and live in a way that is better for nature now and I will pray for that others will to :sweflag:
:winkc: //Madeleine
Buddhafoot - it is people like you that have given me phobia of cancer, paranoia about what I eat. Although I am grateful for information, the more I learn the more I am terrified! I use SLS and paraben free products, I don't eat meat, I feed my daughter free range and organic, I use cloth nappies and recycle the water out of the shower for the nappy bucket. And yet it is still not enough!! And if my neighbor doesnt do the same, I wonder what the point is...
I don't want anyone to get the idea that I'm somehow preaching and that I am also practicing what I'm preaching. That is not the case. I was only putting some information out on the table for people to think about. I have no High Horse - just in case you were wondering.
Emmck - that is truly amazing. Even that you're taking time to recycle water and such - I really commend you.
As for "and if my neighbor doesn't do the same" - I can understand what you mean. But, by sharing your information - maybe someone else will use one of your ideas. Then that's 2 people doing it. It may take a long time but eventually - things may catch on. I know it's given me something to think about (use of water, recycling water, etc.)
Buddhafoot,
You Make some very good points. But in the county I live -in we are very mindful about what we are doing. For instance, did anyone know that recycling your waste can help boost your income? Here, you can get 1.25 a pound for Aluminum cans, $.05 per pound for plastics and Paper and Cardboard?
We are allowed to use what has becomed grey water on our lawns. ( water from your washing machine, Dishwasher. Etc. Recyled Tires become new roads. and old computer parts are refurbished and given to schools to hand out to students who can not afford them.
Our newspaper are pringted on Biodegradable paper with soy ink, so that they can be used in many different ways. Our county has reduced it's solid waste by over 50 tons this year alone.
I also try to buy only the enviromentally friendly products, Such as the new wood that is made out of plastic ( For my Vegtable beds) It doesn't break down and is not treated with Arsonic. It also looks very nice.
As for my utilites, I know how they are made and as soon as I can get enough money saved I will be putting on a solar roof ( that is if the home owners association will allow it) . I am also building a green house that will be heated from my dryer vent.
I grow alot of Herbs for both Medicinal as well as flavoring for my foods. And most of my own Vegtables. Composting kitchen waste. There are alot more things that I do to help out mother earth as well as my own pocket book.
It doesn't take alot of effort once you get started. And it is a really good feeling knowing that you are doing something good to help our planet.
MoonLgt - you are very lucky to live in a county like that! I, on the other hand, live in a veyr backwards state (which is why we are moving!) and they do not even offer Recycling! If you want ot recycle, you have to do it on your own - they do not provide the means to have the recycled items picked up - you have to find a recycling center in another area! Nice, huh?
My husband and I have a compost "pile" in our backyard - it is great. And we use it to grow our own veggies - I love being to go in the backyard and pick our own veggies! Anyways...kudos to you for all that you are doing!
Yes, I agree that California is very environmentally friendly. There are a lot of conservation-minded people here. I hope that one day some of the things they do around here will catch on to other states as well. There seems to be more of an emphasis on recycling, organic produce, free range animals, farmer's markets, etc. here. Many of these things I had never really heard of in Michigan (i.e. free range animals for one, I never honestly knew where my meat came from or how it was produced). I think that maybe the communities here are very proactive and so more people have access to these ideas. No matter what a persons effort towards the planet is, I believe that every little thing helps in the long run. People say it's a waste of time, but I disagree. If more people became involved in these things then there would be more pressure on the legislatures and big companies to make these solutions more cost effective. The bigger the demand the bigger the results, that's capitalism right? If there was a bigger demand for recycling, less polution, free ranged animals, etc. it would become cheaper so that more people could afford to participate. Once the majority says, "We want better products, we want less polution, we want more recycling, we want fresh organic produce, we want a healthier planet." then the big wigs of the government and industry will have listen.
MoonLgt - you are very lucky to live in a county like that! I, on the other hand, live in a veyr backwards state (which is why we are moving!) and they do not even offer Recycling! If you want ot recycle, you have to do it on your own - they do not provide the means to have the recycled items picked up - you have to find a recycling center in another area! Nice, huh?
My husband and I have a compost "pile" in our backyard - it is great. And we use it to grow our own veggies - I love being to go in the backyard and pick our own veggies! Anyways...kudos to you for all that you are doing!
Well I for one dont feel backwards.
Deffenbaugh Disposal Service
(913) 631-3300
Curbside recycling and yard waste
Yogamama,
I don't use curbside recycling. Because themn the money just goes back to the city or county and they still charge me for the pick-up . I just load up my trunk once a week and take it to the center myself. This way I can help my pocket book and not the county or city ( which gets the money from both me and the recycling). All my money that i collect from it is currently going into my savings account for the new roof.
Comments
None of the hunters I know do it for the meat. It's for the sport of it all.
And I agree with you, Elohim. I haven't seen anything mean or offensive in any of the discussions here; I was referring to the work-a-day world i have been captured in for so long. It has just been frustrating that people seem to want to attack and flaunt meat eating simply because they know i'm a vegetarian. I never have made a big deal of it but others seem to think it is really fun to describe their eating habits and the quality of the piece meat they happen to be eating. That is where the mean-spiritedness comes in. It is just plain bad manners, if nothing else.
I have tried on occasion to explain why I became vegetarian but the responses I got were less than receptive and clearly not from an open mind. The accumulated experience over the past 35 years has just made me wonder why an open dialogue seems to be impossible?
I agree...that's probably enough of that.
Peace.
I feel that many of these negative responses are due to people’s identification with a label. It seems that when we make a decision based on "what other people think" we are immediately trapped in a fear driven position. Then because we are identified with the label we feel it is a personal attack on our being. If we simply adopt the ideas without internalizing them, actually breathing our own life into them, we cannot possibly "defend our decision". That in of itself is a funny little life koan because if we have made a clear and deeply thought out decision we will not be threatened by anyone’s opinion. We will be well armed to defend our position but it is unlikely we will even feel the need to do so. It brings to mind a teaching by Bodhidharma
This is the crux of this whole post. Don't follow the precept just because the Buddha said. Science is a theory based practice. Find the answers for yourself. Don’t take anybody’s word for anything. We must breathe life into the precepts or else they are just rocks in the road.
^gassho^
I don't personally believe that disagreements with my viewpoint are direct attacks on me as a person, but they are clearly (?) attacks on the conclusions I have drawn. Arguing to defend a position is fruitless but isn't it appropriate to share information about the decision process as an opportunity for the other person to learn? Do I keep silent or try to share knowledge?
Or, is it most appropriate for the other person to find answers on their own when they are ready to look for them?
Thus I am a part of the circle of life.
Sorry, all you carnivores, but I just don't see the appeal, personally!
John Robbins is someone similar to Price Siddarthar, a man who gave up luxury life for the betterment of mankind.
I watched the documentary ample times, I can sense that there are Buddhism values in it. Really good stuff.
Personally, I think, he might be a Bodhisattva in disguise.
cheers,
that being said - view at your own risk
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=grill
you have to bear in mind that a lot of what makes this person popular is his turnings of a phrase, laying the "smack down", etc.
but he makes some very good points about "what we believe to be vegetarianism" and "since I don't eat meat - i have a positive affect on the earth" mentality.
i think one way to think of things is: there is big business. no matter what it is - a lot of it comes down to profit margins, dividends, bonuses, etc. he makes a great point about "pests" being eliminated - which basically means herbivores being killed because they're cutting in on profit margins.
this reminds me of a book on buddhism i read. there was a chapter where the author was talking about the commandment of "thou shalt not lie". he was also making a point that many, morale people believe that telling a lie is bad.
but buddhism looks more at "right intent".
his next statement was, "so supposed you're in a house with some jews hiding upstairs. the gestapo knock on your door and ask if you if you have jews hiding upstairs."
what comes into play better? "THOU SHALT NOT LIE" or "right intention".
please don't be offended by the article i posted - i just thought he made good sense about some "truths" - not all - just some.
michael
I grow Vegtables all year round. I don't use pesticides, but instead us companion plantings and other things that are good for the earth.
I don't, I just give them something else to munch on, Things like Marigolds - Aphids. Or I sometimes use Diatimatious Earth for Slugs and Snails, and Copper tubing for Ants. But my main source of Bug control is Birds, I keep a small refecting pond clean and a few sunflowers around. And they just love it. Every since I have invited them to come in , I have not had any real problems with bugs. May I also suggest that for really sweet tomatoes, don't move them around just add some leaf mulch over the winter. They will be twice as sweet the next year.
At the end of the talk, he took questions. One person asked if, as Buddhists, we shouldn't refrain from eating meat because it is killing. Trungpa replied, "Why? I have claws and fangs, don't I?"
And as for what the Buddha actually said about it, all he said was it's OK to eat meat unless it was killed specifically for you. And that only applies to ordained, those who keep the precepts.
By the way, are you aware how many sentient beings are killed when a field of, say, rice or corn is harvested? Is the life of an insect less valuable than the life of a cow or a chicken?
Palzang
you are not wrong, But what I don't understand is why people seem to put more value on Animals and Insects than they do Vegitation? Without Vegitation there would be no insects or animals. OR human kind for that matter. It is my belief that we need to consider all things Plant, Animal and Insect. Because without any one of these, we would not have the other.
I am vegetarian and feel that I need to "stick up" for some of us vegetarians. Not all vegetarins feel as though they are better than anyone else. It frustrates me when I read things about how vegetarians think they are better than everyone else because they do not eat meat, and that's just not true. It doesn't bother me if people eat meat, nor would I ever criticize anyone for what they eat. That's like criticizing someone for being a different religion than you...I just don't think it is right. I personally do not eat meat because it grosses me out. I can't stand to bite into a piece of flesh, let alone a piece of animal fat - YUCK. I don't put any more value on the life of a cow than I do on the life of an insect. Life is life. I try my best not to kill any living thing, but some things end up being killed in order to sustain our own lives. It is just a part of life.
You have not read enough of my posts on this subject. I am a big defender of plantlife. I have made the argument that plants are actually enlightened beings that are here to keep us alive. The vegetable gladly gives it's life to save ours. But I also feel we should leave the plants alone. That's why we should eat more meat.
I see your point, and yes I agree with you that plants are too enlightened beings. The reason why Buddhist take veg because vegetables/plants have lesser emotions than animals. Because, in the minds of animals especially at the point being slaughtered, they are more or less in pain/desperation/angry and probably die with a thought of revenge. This thought of anger and revenge is a seed that will have an karmic consequences of lost of live in future when condition arises.
An it is true that plants may feel the pain too, but it is signifcantly lesser than animals.
It is good to look at a bigger picture. What is at stake is enormous, because keeping large numbers of chickens in close confinement inevitably leads to diseases and big social problems (pollutions in water and air cause by the waste produced). We may be sealing our fate of obesity/cancers etc by what we eat. This is also a cause which overtime will have significant consequences, affecting not only us, but also our future generations to come.
cheers,
A talk by the Buddhist teacher Thich Naht Hanh on Mindful Consumption
All things need food to be alive and to grow, including our love or our hate. Love is a living thing, hate is a living thing. If you do not nourish your love, it will die. If you cut the source of nutriment for your violence, your violence will also die. That is why the path shown by the Buddha is the path of mindful consumption.
The Buddha told the following story. There was a couple who wanted to cross the desert to go to another country in order to seek freedom. They brought with them their little boy and a quantity of food and water. But they did not calculate well, and that is why halfway through the desert they ran out of food, and they knew that they were going to die. So after a lot of anguish, they decided to eat the little boy so that they could survive and go to the other country, and that's what they did. And every time they ate a piece of flesh from their son, they cried.
The Buddha asked his monks, "My dear friends: Do you think that the couple enjoyed eating the flesh of their son?" The Buddha said, "It is impossible to enjoy eating the flesh of our son. If you do not eat mindfully, you are eating the flesh of your son and daughter, you are eating the flesh of your parent."
If we look deeply, we will see that eating can be extremely violent. UNESCO tells us that every day, forty thousand children in the world die because of a lack of nutrition, of food. Every day, forty thousand children. And the amount of grain that we grow in the West is mostly used to feed our cattle. Eighty percent of the corn grown in this country is to feed the cattle to make meat. Ninety-five percent of the oats produced in this country is not for us to eat, but for the animals raised for food. According to this recent report that we received of all the agricultural land in the US, eighty-seven percent is used to raise animals for food. That is forty-five percent of the total land mass in the US.
More than half of all the water consumed in the US whole purpose is to raise animals for food. It takes 2500 gallons of water to produce a pound of meat, but only 25 gallons to produce a pound of wheat. A totally vegetarian diet requires 300 gallons of water per day, while a meat-eating diet requires more than 4000 gallons of water per day.
Raising animals for food causes more water pollution than any other industry in the US because animals raised for food produce one hundred thirty times the excrement of the entire human population. It means 87,000 pounds per second. Much of the waste from factory farms and slaughter houses flows into streams and rivers, contaminating water sources.
Each vegetarian can save one acre of trees per year. More than 260 million acres of US forests have been cleared to grow crops to feed animals raised for meat. And another acre of trees disappears every eight seconds. The tropical rain forests are also being destroyed to create grazing land for cattle.
In the US, animals raised for food are fed more than eighty percent of the corn we grow and more than ninety-five percent of the oats. We are eating our country, we are eating our earth, we are eating our children. And I have learned that more than half the people in this country overeat.
Mindful eating can help maintain compassion within our heart. A person without compassion cannot be happy, cannot relate to other human beings and to other living beings. And eating the flesh of our own son is what is going on in the world, because we do not practice mindful eating.
The Buddha spoke about the second kind of food that we consume every day -- sense impressions -- the kind of food that we take in by the way of the eyes, the ears, the tongue, the body, and the mind. When we read a magazine, we consume. When you watch television, you consume. When you listen to a conversation, you consume. And these items can be highly toxic. There may be a lot of poisons, like craving, like violence, like anger, and despair. We allow ourselves to be intoxicated by what we consume in terms of sense impressions. We allow our children to intoxicate themselves because of these products. That is why it is very important to look deeply into our ill-being, into the nature of our ill-being, in order to recognize the sources of nutriment we have used to bring it into us and into our society.
The Buddha had this to say: "What has come to be - if you know how to look deeply into its nature and identify its source of nutriment, you are already on the path of emancipation." What has come to be is our illness, our ill-being, our suffering, our violence, our despair. And if you practice looking deeply, meditation, you'll be able to identify the sources of nutriments, of food, that has brought it into us.
Therefore the whole nation has to practice looking deeply into the nature of what we consume every day. And consuming mindfully is the only way to protect our nation, ourselves, and our society. We have to learn how to consume mindfully as a family, as a city, as a nation. We have to learn what to produce and what not to produce in order to provide our people with only the items that are nourishing and healing. We have to refrain from producing the kinds of items that bring war and despair into our body, into our consciousness, and into the collective body and consciousness of our nation, our society. And Congress has to practice that. We have elected members of the Congress. We expect them to practice deeply, listening to the suffering of the people, to the real causes of that suffering, and to make the kind of laws that can protect us from self-destruction. And America is great. I have the conviction that you can do it and help the world. You can offer the world wisdom, mindfulness, and compassion.
Nowadays I enjoy places where people do not smoke. There are nonsmoking flights that you can enjoy. Ten years ago they did not exist, nonsmoking flights. And in America on every box of cigarettes there is the message: "Beware: Smoking can be hazardous to your health." That is a bell of mindfulness. That is the practice of mindful consumption. You do not say that you are practicing mindfulness, but you are really practicing mindfulness. Mindfulness of smoking is what allowed you to see that smoking is not healthy.
In America, people are very aware of the food they eat. They want every package of food to be labeled so that they can know what is in it. They don't want to eat the kind of food that will bring toxins and poisons into their bodies. This is the practice of mindful eating.
But we can go further. We can do better, as parents, as teachers, as artists and as politicians. If you are a teacher, you can contribute a lot in awakening people of the need for mindful consumption, because that is the way to real emancipation. If you are a journalist, you have the means to educate people, to wake people up to the nature of our situation. Every one of us can transform himself or herself into a bodhisattva doing the work of awakening. Because only awakening can help us to stop the course we are taking, the course of destruction. Then we will know in which direction we should go to make the earth a safe place for us, for our children, and for their children.
Extracted from http://www.foodrevolution.org/eatingforpeace.htm
So... you know me - I thought I would add some of my thoughts .... YET AGAIN!!!!!
The eating of food, in the way our civilization is today, brings about death. If you are not growing your own vegetables - animals are dying in the process of your food being made - whether it be plant or animal life. If you have not planted the plants yourself and harvested them - you really have no idea what is happening.
Maybe we should just quit raising grain and such that is used for animal feed. A lot of this type of crop is not suitable for human consumption and probably couldn't be used - unless it was processed in a way to make it "funtionally consumable" for the human digestive system.
Millions of animals are killed each year with the harvesting of crops. Many "corporations" and even private land-owners hire people to kill pesky vermin like deer, elk, rabbits, etc that are destroying their "cash" crops. Not to mention animals that are killed from the combines. Just think of all the chickens that are kept in cages where they can't even move - living in enclosed buildings with "unnatural lighting" that screws up their system into thinking a "day" is only eight hours - so they produce more eggs. In cages where their feet are deformed and grow "into" the cages - from being forced to stand their entire life. Even if you use "naturally nested" eggs - what about the products that are made from the eggs of "non naturally nested" chickens?
We should also stop killing animals that are used for the harvest of various chemicals that we use, as humans, to heal ourselves. Why are these animals lives not as precious as ours? Or the lives of our cats and dogs? Why should they be killed or bred in captivity for the harvesting of, oh let's say, insulen - so that we or our pets can live?
Countless animals and species die as rain forests are cleared for corporate hamburger joints to make new room for cattle to be raise. The same corporations that provide us with our "vegetarian meals".
Not to mention that once these areas of rain forest are cleared - the land is basically ruined forever. The rainforests were developed over millinea - they can't just be torn down and raise back up at will.
How do people prepare for the work day? Have the products that you are using to shave the whiskers off of your face, hold your hair in place, keep your armpits from smelling, to give you "longer, lusher lasting looking eyelashes" or "deep long lasting color to keep you looking young!" been tested on animals? What happens to it when you wash it down the drain in the sink or tub? What about the testing of these things on animals? Sprays and chemicals directly applied to open wounds or eyes of animals trapped in labratories?
Or cleaning our clothes? The spot cleaners? The dry cleaners? The soaps and suds we put into tubs of water that just get dumped into our water systems? Or driving our cars? Driving our cars that drip and leak and sputter? Have you ever seen rain water running off from parking lots? Or what abbut fertilizing our lawns? Or food and household items that come in these really great plastic bags that we just throw in the garbage that gets thrown into a hole that doesn't deteriorate for thousands of years? Or the "throw-away" tupperware-like products that can just be "tossed" for conveniences sake? Or the batteries that won't run our toys anymore - we just chuck them in the garbage - which eventually leak into our land and water systems? Or tires from our cars that we drive? Why do tires go bald? Where does the tire go to? It just doesn't disappear.
Just think about the amount of garbage each one of us generates in a week or a month? Where does that go? Do you ensure that it's being properly disposed of? Or the water we waste on keeping our lawns to keep them green. Think of the thousands, if not millions, of people that don't have clean drinking water - and all the water we're hogging. America is a country glutted on the wasted use of electricity, water, power, fuel, etc.
It's my thinking that there is too much emphasis put on things that are now politically incorrect. We get up in arms about smoking and eating meat - when there are hundreds, if not thousands, of things we do on a daily, weekly and yearly basis that are just as harmful.
I have friends who smoke. I used to smoke years ago. I recognize that smoking is bad for you. I also recognize that people who smoke know it's bad for them.
But, did you know that any foreign agent in your lungs really isn't good for you? Wood from hobbyists or laborers sanding without protection? Cleaners, fumes, particulates, etc. Incense? How can inhaling smoke from incense be good for a person? But I believe that a lot of people take up the banner of not smoking and use it to look down on people that do. Smokers are just not people who are hurting themselves. They're below us. They're looked at, by some, with ridicule and vulgarity.
Buddha lived in a time of great suffering. People had to work, and work hard, just to get by. There were no supermarkets, no bistros, no Subways, no McDonalds, no Starbucks - if you didn't raise it or couldn't buy it from someone who did - you eventually died.
I don't think Buddha could have envisioned a world like the world we live in today. I think his lessons would have changed in many ways. Ways that make us look past the pleasant packaging of our favorite foods - our new and improved cleaners - our lush, green weed free lawns - our meatier tasting cat foods - our more manly smell - our active and energetic lifestyles - our longer lasting color - our medications that keep us living longer - our medications that kill the condition that could kill us (just think of all the chemicals used in the making of more chemicals for us to ingest! - when really, if we lived in Buddha's time - we would have just died) - our favorite sit-com - our best selling novel - our internet connectivity - our favorite carbonated beverage - I can keep going here....
While I believe that we should be mindful - I don't think being mindful in ways that "suit what we like to or dislike to do" is actually being mindful.
Being mindful should start and reflect in all manners of our lives. What we ingest, what we excrete. What we keep, what we throw away. And not taking the time to figure out where all of these niceties come from is not being mindful. Being ignorant of how we come by everything that makes "our" life comfortable is not being mindful. Just because you are ignorant of how your food comes to you, where you get your power, what the corporations do that provide you with the things "you" want - doesn't mean that you aren't supporting it.
I'll get off my soap-box now...
Michael
When I was writing that - I was initially just trying to make some points regarding being a omnivore -vs- herbivore.
But then, as I kept writing, I kept thinking of more and more things that I do in my life that have consequences that I really don't pay any attention to.
I just have a sinking feeling that there are so many things that humans/I do that do not have good karma associated with them. I also think "right mindedness" must include deciding not to be ignorant of these things and do what you can to prevent them.
I was just reading an article about old computers. Old computers that many companies send over to 3rd world countries - because there is land to store them. Huge valleys of old computers nobody wants anymore. And the people that have to live there - or choose to live there - in awful conditions that try to squeeze out a living by burning precious metals off of computer boards with toxic acids and such. It just made me feel awful.
I've also read that the "computer" industry is one of the "dirtiest" industries in modern times. All the plastic packaging and stuff that really isn't degradable in any realistic sense.
I need a drink.
Michael
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2002/02/25/computer-waste.htm
Michael
"Other laborers, making $1.50 a day and working with little or no protection, burned plastics and circuit boards or poured acid on electronic parts to extract silver and gold. Many pried open printer cartridges — whose hazards are uncertain — and smashed lead-laden cathode ray tubes from computer monitors, the report said."
I was thingking of writing something like that, but I see you where faster than me, and you made some points(???) that I think I wouldnt have come up with :bigclap: , I think I will try to eat and live in a way that is better for nature now and I will pray for that others will to :sweflag:
:winkc: //Madeleine
I don't want anyone to get the idea that I'm somehow preaching and that I am also practicing what I'm preaching. That is not the case. I was only putting some information out on the table for people to think about. I have no High Horse - just in case you were wondering.
Emmck - that is truly amazing. Even that you're taking time to recycle water and such - I really commend you.
As for "and if my neighbor doesn't do the same" - I can understand what you mean. But, by sharing your information - maybe someone else will use one of your ideas. Then that's 2 people doing it. It may take a long time but eventually - things may catch on. I know it's given me something to think about (use of water, recycling water, etc.)
Thanks!
Michael
You Make some very good points. But in the county I live -in we are very mindful about what we are doing. For instance, did anyone know that recycling your waste can help boost your income? Here, you can get 1.25 a pound for Aluminum cans, $.05 per pound for plastics and Paper and Cardboard?
We are allowed to use what has becomed grey water on our lawns. ( water from your washing machine, Dishwasher. Etc. Recyled Tires become new roads. and old computer parts are refurbished and given to schools to hand out to students who can not afford them.
Our newspaper are pringted on Biodegradable paper with soy ink, so that they can be used in many different ways. Our county has reduced it's solid waste by over 50 tons this year alone.
I also try to buy only the enviromentally friendly products, Such as the new wood that is made out of plastic ( For my Vegtable beds) It doesn't break down and is not treated with Arsonic. It also looks very nice.
As for my utilites, I know how they are made and as soon as I can get enough money saved I will be putting on a solar roof ( that is if the home owners association will allow it) . I am also building a green house that will be heated from my dryer vent.
I grow alot of Herbs for both Medicinal as well as flavoring for my foods. And most of my own Vegtables. Composting kitchen waste. There are alot more things that I do to help out mother earth as well as my own pocket book.
It doesn't take alot of effort once you get started. And it is a really good feeling knowing that you are doing something good to help our planet.
My husband and I have a compost "pile" in our backyard - it is great. And we use it to grow our own veggies - I love being to go in the backyard and pick our own veggies! Anyways...kudos to you for all that you are doing!
*stepping down off my soap-box*
That's my opinion anyway.
Congrats to you too!
Michael
Michael
Well I for one dont feel backwards.
Deffenbaugh Disposal Service
(913) 631-3300
Curbside recycling and yard waste
I don't use curbside recycling. Because themn the money just goes back to the city or county and they still charge me for the pick-up . I just load up my trunk once a week and take it to the center myself. This way I can help my pocket book and not the county or city ( which gets the money from both me and the recycling). All my money that i collect from it is currently going into my savings account for the new roof.