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Deffenbaugh Disposal Service
(913) 631-3300
Curbside recycling and yard waste
River...I apologize if I offended you...that certainly was not my intention. Blue Springs seems to be very different than Lee's Summit, where you are. We lived in Lee's Summit for a while and liked it, but don't really care for Blue Springs. Blue Springs does not offer Recycling...that's what we were told anyways! It's just really different here in Missouri than it was in Arizona..Again, sorry if I offended you....I truly apologize.
Yogamama,
I don't use curbside recycling. Because themn the money just goes back to the city or county and they still charge me for the pick-up . I just load up my trunk once a week and take it to the center myself. This way I can help my pocket book and not the county or city ( which gets the money from both me and the recycling). All my money that i collect from it is currently going into my savings account for the new roof.
Hmmmm...hadn't thought about that. Thanks for the tip!
I wasnt offended. I was just trying to point out that we are "Missouri". If you are looking for ozark hillbillies you will find them, but if you are looking for openminded forward thinking individuals you can find them too. The great thing about the Kansas City metro area is if you dont like the dynamic of a certain city just drive 10 miles and you are in a completely different city.
I also like MoonLgt load up about once a week and take my recycling to the local recycling center. I also take some for my friends and family. I have even bought some of them containers that they can just throw their recycling in and I will sort it for them getting them to recycle when they otherwise wouldnt.
You are right - Missouri definitely has its share of open-minded, forward thinking individuals as well and it was wrong of me to group everyone together.
Would you mind telling me what Recycling Center you go to? I would like to start doing the same. Thanks!
Yes, yummy i love eggs too...ok back to the topic. I'm trying to become a vegatarian...maybe a fruitarian. I believe in taking food that wants us to eat them like fruits, because we can spread they're seeds. lol also milks is ok to me and eggs.Ok, I can get my protein from eggs, calcium from milk, and vitamins from fruits.
Well I am allergic to fruits and vegetables so my diet is limited if I turn down meat. I have started drinking more protein shakes instead of eating meat. One day at a time.
Well, there's a delemma. You know comicallyinsane you can eat whatever you want. I just think it's sad when we eat meat and not respect the animal that died. I respect the native americans though. They eat meat and uses every parts. Now in today society the way the animals are killed. It's personnel because i love animals.lol but i'm guilty too because i sometimes in indulge in fried chicken, and i'll cry. :skeptical
thanks to this conversation [and some further research that followed] i wasn't able to eat meat within the last couple of days. i've tried for years "to get off" the meat but actually never saw a reason to do so.
my mother always says "you are what you eat". she is a vegetarian and took away any prejudices a long time ago.
i've looked at the documentary of the "baskin robins" son and found it fascinating. something seems to be wrong [with our society] if the food pyramid is promoted by the dairy industry... i also saw the PETA movie, where the tyson employees just rip off the chickens' heads. that really robbed me off the illusion that i am eating something that has been involved in some cruel and brutal practices.
through my doctor, who takes a holistic (and ayurvedic) approach, i have learned that your diet can make a huge difference in your well being. i have suffered from back pain for years and she told me to reduce my dairy intake, as well as cutting out red meat, bananas, grapes, wheat and peanuts, since all of those groceries produce fluids, and this is a great way to keep my back pain under control. much better than taking pain killers!
thanks to this conversation [and some further research that followed] i wasn't able to eat meat within the last couple of days. i've tried for years "to get off" the meat but actually never saw a reason to do so.
my mother always says "you are what you eat". she is a vegetarian and took away any prejudices a long time ago.
i've looked at the documentary of the "baskin robins" son and found it fascinating. something seems to be wrong [with our society] if the food pyramid is promoted by the dairy industry... i also saw the PETA movie, where the tyson employees just rip off the chickens' heads. that really robbed me off the illusion that i am eating something that has been involved in some cruel and brutal practices.
through my doctor, who takes a holistic (and ayurvedic) approach, i have learned that your diet can make a huge difference in your well being. i have suffered from back pain for years and she told me to reduce my dairy intake, as well as cutting out red meat, bananas, grapes, wheat and peanuts, since all of those groceries produce fluids, and this is a great way to keep my back pain under control. much better than taking pain killers!
thank you all for this!
Excellent!
There are two books you can try to borrow from the library by John Robbins (son of baskin robins)
1. Diet for a New America (There is a video version, which you have already watched at PetaTV)
2. Food Revolution
i already have the "diet for a new america", haven't read it though (always wondered "who the heck ordered that..." guess, it was me after all *grin*). i'm feeling so good, it is unbelievable! not only because the concience is at ease but also because there seems to be some kind of detachment from the food itself.
My pleasure.
His life story in really interesting. Just like Price Siddarthda, he gave up a life of luxury for the betterment of all beings.
I am still trying hard to be a vegetarian. The "Diet for a New American" documentary impacted me. Really no meat, only vegetables, during the last two years of the Chinese New year (15 days each). Most of my other friends were feasting with scrumptious chinese delicacies.
i'm sitting @ the sushi place yesterday and while my husband was chewing on a chicken liver i was wondering what mr. roberts says about fish... what does PETA say about fish? i couldn't find anything on their website.
i'm sitting @ the sushi place yesterday and while my husband was chewing on a chicken liver i was wondering what mr. roberts says about fish... what does PETA say about fish? i couldn't find anything on their website.
I've came across a spectacular docmentary from Vegetarian Society in Britain. Narrated by Paul McCartney I believed. It was an exellent piece of clips. I could not recall the title for now. Will let you know once I find out more.
i'm sitting @ the sushi place yesterday and while my husband was chewing on a chicken liver i was wondering what mr. roberts says about fish... what does PETA say about fish? i couldn't find anything on their website.
I must remind everyone that vegetarians are indirectly responsible for taking lives. I don't know if they take more than meat eaters but from what I have read they do.
We must always consider these things when the subject of taking life is a concern.
I must remind everyone that vegetarians are indirectly responsible for taking lives. I don't know if they take more than meat eaters but from what I have read they do.
We must always consider these things when the subject of taking life is a concern.
hmm...
Yes, you are right about indirectly responsible for taking lives, pertaining to gems, cells, micro insects etc .... In fact moments by moments, cells in various parts of our body die with new replacement. Every time when we tidy up our room, clearing dust, we are killing lives too. This is not a perfect world, and nothing is perfect.
The reason why veg is preferred because plants have significant much lesser emotion of pain and agony, compared to animals.
I suggest to see at a bigger picture and examine the damages done to the entire ecosystem by eating meat.
A talk by the Buddhist teacher Thich Naht Hanh on Mindful Consumption
All things need food to be alive and to grow, including our love or our hate. Love is a living thing, hate is a living thing. If you do not nourish your love, it will die. If you cut the source of nutriment for your violence, your violence will also die. That is why the path shown by the Buddha is the path of mindful consumption.
The Buddha told the following story. There was a couple who wanted to cross the desert to go to another country in order to seek freedom. They brought with them their little boy and a quantity of food and water. But they did not calculate well, and that is why halfway through the desert they ran out of food, and they knew that they were going to die. So after a lot of anguish, they decided to eat the little boy so that they could survive and go to the other country, and that's what they did. And every time they ate a piece of flesh from their son, they cried.
The Buddha asked his monks, "My dear friends: Do you think that the couple enjoyed eating the flesh of their son?" The Buddha said, "It is impossible to enjoy eating the flesh of our son. If you do not eat mindfully, you are eating the flesh of your son and daughter, you are eating the flesh of your parent."
If we look deeply, we will see that eating can be extremely violent. UNESCO tells us that every day, forty thousand children in the world die because of a lack of nutrition, of food. Every day, forty thousand children. And the amount of grain that we grow in the West is mostly used to feed our cattle. Eighty percent of the corn grown in this country is to feed the cattle to make meat. Ninety-five percent of the oats produced in this country is not for us to eat, but for the animals raised for food. According to this recent report that we received of all the agricultural land in the US, eighty-seven percent is used to raise animals for food. That is forty-five percent of the total land mass in the US.
More than half of all the water consumed in the US whole purpose is to raise animals for food. It takes 2500 gallons of water to produce a pound of meat, but only 25 gallons to produce a pound of wheat. A totally vegetarian diet requires 300 gallons of water per day, while a meat-eating diet requires more than 4000 gallons of water per day.
Raising animals for food causes more water pollution than any other industry in the US because animals raised for food produce one hundred thirty times the excrement of the entire human population. It means 87,000 pounds per second. Much of the waste from factory farms and slaughter houses flows into streams and rivers, contaminating water sources.
Each vegetarian can save one acre of trees per year. More than 260 million acres of US forests have been cleared to grow crops to feed animals raised for meat. And another acre of trees disappears every eight seconds. The tropical rain forests are also being destroyed to create grazing land for cattle.
In the US, animals raised for food are fed more than eighty percent of the corn we grow and more than ninety-five percent of the oats. We are eating our country, we are eating our earth, we are eating our children. And I have learned that more than half the people in this country overeat.
Mindful eating can help maintain compassion within our heart. A person without compassion cannot be happy, cannot relate to other human beings and to other living beings. And eating the flesh of our own son is what is going on in the world, because we do not practice mindful eating.
The Buddha spoke about the second kind of food that we consume every day -- sense impressions -- the kind of food that we take in by the way of the eyes, the ears, the tongue, the body, and the mind. When we read a magazine, we consume. When you watch television, you consume. When you listen to a conversation, you consume. And these items can be highly toxic. There may be a lot of poisons, like craving, like violence, like anger, and despair. We allow ourselves to be intoxicated by what we consume in terms of sense impressions. We allow our children to intoxicate themselves because of these products. That is why it is very important to look deeply into our ill-being, into the nature of our ill-being, in order to recognize the sources of nutriment we have used to bring it into us and into our society.
The Buddha had this to say: "What has come to be - if you know how to look deeply into its nature and identify its source of nutriment, you are already on the path of emancipation." What has come to be is our illness, our ill-being, our suffering, our violence, our despair. And if you practice looking deeply, meditation, you'll be able to identify the sources of nutriments, of food, that has brought it into us.
Therefore the whole nation has to practice looking deeply into the nature of what we consume every day. And consuming mindfully is the only way to protect our nation, ourselves, and our society. We have to learn how to consume mindfully as a family, as a city, as a nation. We have to learn what to produce and what not to produce in order to provide our people with only the items that are nourishing and healing. We have to refrain from producing the kinds of items that bring war and despair into our body, into our consciousness, and into the collective body and consciousness of our nation, our society. And Congress has to practice that. We have elected members of the Congress. We expect them to practice deeply, listening to the suffering of the people, to the real causes of that suffering, and to make the kind of laws that can protect us from self-destruction. And America is great. I have the conviction that you can do it and help the world. You can offer the world wisdom, mindfulness, and compassion.
Nowadays I enjoy places where people do not smoke. There are nonsmoking flights that you can enjoy. Ten years ago they did not exist, nonsmoking flights. And in America on every box of cigarettes there is the message: "Beware: Smoking can be hazardous to your health." That is a bell of mindfulness. That is the practice of mindful consumption. You do not say that you are practicing mindfulness, but you are really practicing mindfulness. Mindfulness of smoking is what allowed you to see that smoking is not healthy.
In America, people are very aware of the food they eat. They want every package of food to be labeled so that they can know what is in it. They don't want to eat the kind of food that will bring toxins and poisons into their bodies. This is the practice of mindful eating.
But we can go further. We can do better, as parents, as teachers, as artists and as politicians. If you are a teacher, you can contribute a lot in awakening people of the need for mindful consumption, because that is the way to real emancipation. If you are a journalist, you have the means to educate people, to wake people up to the nature of our situation. Every one of us can transform himself or herself into a bodhisattva doing the work of awakening. Because only awakening can help us to stop the course we are taking, the course of destruction. Then we will know in which direction we should go to make the earth a safe place for us, for our children, and for their children.
While this reply makes being a vegetarian sound clean and wholesome, there really is nothing clean and wholesome about being a vegetarian (in regards to killing of animals, water usage, clear of land, etc.) unless you grow and raise your own vegetables.
Millions of animals are murdered each year in the harvesting of crops (mice, rabbits, snakes, gophers, skunks, possums, rats, squirrels, etc.)
These are free-roaming animals. Not animals that have been bred specifically for food. They are animals living in the wild that are being killed by huge combines harvesting these crops.
Hundreds? Thousands? Some number of animals are killed each year by farmers, who even though they raise crops and not animals, hire people to come in and "control" the varmit that eat the crops they are selling as a "business". Animals like deer, elk, antelope.
Unless you are buying eggs grown by yourself or that are "free-range" chickens you're eating the bi-product of animals that are kept in cages, usually hardly big enough for the chicken itself, for their entire life. Many, many of these chickens are reduced to standing their entire life in a cage so that their feet deform, become mangled and actually grow into the cage - because the chicken has to stand its entire life. And many, many vegetarians have no problems with eating eggs raised in this type of Auschwitz type of environment.
The crops raised for "animal" consumption is low grade grain. Not the grain that has been genetically altered for use by big corporations in the making of their product. Much of this grain might not even be of use for human consumption. Remember, many places that use this grain for feeding cattle also incorporate the use of steroidal additives to help the cattle grow.
Water? There has been about the same amount of water on this planet since the beginning of time. I don't think it disappears over time - that's how this planet works. Many states in the US have averages of household water usage. Many households in the US use well over 100,000 gallons of water each year. Some states like California are close to 200,000 per year. That's "households" - that doesn't include what is used in states like California in the use of growing crops - since they have an extended growing season the rest of the States takes for granted.
My point isn't to refute what kinlee says. I just think that a rebuttal should be stated so that people don't fall under the wrong impression that by becoming vegetarian - everything will be okay.
Just as important as food, in regards to being "mindful" should also include what you do with fossil fuel, plastic wrappings from your foods, over fertilization of yards that allow leakages into streams and aquaducts, batteries, aluminum cans, the amount of garbage we either throw into landfills or the ocean, driving leaky/faulty vehicles, etc.
And to be realistic - we elect people into our government to - generally do what is right. These people aren't Buddhists. The are people engaging in an 8 hour a day job - if that. The are people who are working in a career. If anyone is under the thought process that our government is filled with people who "practice deeply, listening to the suffering of the people, to the real causes of that suffering" - I'm afraid to say that I honestly think we've all got another think coming.
Government is business. That's why big business flourishes like it does. That's why there are kickbacks, pay-offs, lobbyists, etc. Until big business is no longer lucritive and "taking care of our Earth" pays good, includes great health benefits, huge bonuses and such - we're going to have to rely on each other to do what is right or mindful.
There are many ways to be mindful. I think a lot of propaganda that is out makes eating meat cruel and unjust and being a vegetarian - sound saintly.
Just food (no pun intended) for thought.
-bf
P.S. For those of you that think I'm ripping on kinlee - I'm not. kinlee makes some great suggestions that I should and will take into consideration. Thanks for the post, kinlee.
And again, I just have to point out that there are those of us vegetarians who do not eat meat because we simply do not like it. I prefer to eat tofu rather than beef! Not because I worry about killing a cow - I just feel "healthier" if I do not eat meat. Meat is too "heavy" to me. I think there are a lot of vegetarians out there that feel the same way I do!
I notice that each time this topic is raised, the matter of comparing the slaughter of insects, etc., from growing and harvesting fruit and vegetables is given moral equivalence with slaughter of animals for food.
Whilst I remain unconvinced by the existence of such equivalence, I am prepared to accept that it is an argument that can comfort meat-eaters and, as such, has value.
Nevertheless, those who eat meat have other questions to address which cannot be shrugged off by this argument. Among others these three worry me:
* Intensive or 'factory' farming of animals and poultry, resulting in deformities, over-use of antibiotics and growth hormones, de-beaking of chickens, veal crates, among other cruelties.
* Ecological damage caused by the immense volume of fodder required which results not only in wholesale destruction of rainforests and in grain shortages in the areas of drought and starvation.
* The 'epidemic' of obesity among Westerners which is an increasing danger to the obese individuals themseves and to society at large, diverting already tight health-care budgets to an avoidable condition.
I don't think that the argument includes intention but is about unforeseen consequences, but Comic, whose argument it is, will correct me if I'm wrong.
I notice that each time this topic is raised, the matter of comparing the slaughter of insects, etc., from growing and harvesting fruit and vegetables is given moral equivalence with slaughter of animals for food.
Simon, a good post, as always that makes some great points.
Just so you know, I'm a meat eater - so if you have any stones lying around to throw, you might want to get them out.
(soap box, please! thank you.)
Meat-eaters should know the things that are involved with the food they intake. You forgot to mention things like chicken being scalded alive during "harvest". Of cows actually being skinned before they are clinically dead. Probably many more things that we don't even know about - that are disgusting and cruel.
But!,
I don't think even saying "I don't eat vegetables with the intent of killing sentient beings" is an argument. I know my child doesn't eat a hamburger with the intent of killing a sentient being - but a being has still been killed for his Happy Meal. Ignorance is not a justifiable argument.
I also see these posts where people repeat what big organizations have stated in their propaganda. Organization that have members, salaries, bonuses, etc. just like any other business.
I read these posts and feel that vegetarians are deluded by the statement of "vegetarianism". That somehow, by all of us becoming vegetarians, all the world's ills will magically disappear. All of this grain raised for animals will now feed everyone in the world. The world will become this Utopian environment.
It ain't gonna happen.
Big business is big business - whether it deals with crops or cattle. That's why we have piles of grain grown for human consumption rotting in piles on docks - because there is more monetary gain to let it rot and get a government subsidy(sp?) rather than sell it.
People are also the problem with the worlds hunger. We've seen it in Etheopia, Somolia and Mogadeshu. There was tons of grain being sent to Mogadeshu - but the warlords were preventing it from reaching the people. Tons of grain available - hundreds of people dying every day from hunger. You could also say the same thing about pharmicutical companies not providing these countries with all the medicine they need to eradicate various sicknesses. It's not profitable to do this.
So, are you saying that it's really karmically better or easier to kill an animal raised by nature, because you're a vegetarian, rather than one bred for food? To me, that's like saying, "I only killed 20 small people. I'm not like that slime that killed 50 big people!" Killing is killing. Monks in various forest temples sweep the path they walk on so as to remove insects that they might otherwise tread on.
Plus, eating vegetables has it's own problems. All the insects and animals that are killed - and if they aren't killed they become more resiliant to the pesticides than nature intended them to. What about all the problems with DDC or DDT (whatever that pesticide was called that only after decades of use) was found to be a major carcinogen that killed, who knows, how many people? The pesticides that are sprayed on the food, that becomes systemic to the crop being grown that we feed to our children. I've read that there are chemicals, made especially for broccoli, that when cooked (like in boiling water) changes the chemical compound ~inside~ of the broccoli to the same sort of agents found in rocket fuel. The pesticides, the cheap-underhanded labor big business gets to pick these crops while paying them crap for wages, the waxes on the fruits, the preservatives (because they're picked way before their ripe so they don't spoil while making the transport), the fertilizers, etc.
What about all the vegetarian meals that are processed and packages using various preservatives from these same animals that were slaughtered for steak or roasts? You're still using these bi-products.
And I disagree about Western obesity being blamed on meat eating. There are studies that show that by eating just meat - obesity is not a problem.
The problem is with Westernism itself. The "I want it now" instant gratification we've become so accustomed to.
I believe the world will not become a fairy tale place of peace and happiness by becoming vegetarians. If you are one because that's what you choose to do - that's fine. That's great. It's really no different from someone eating corn on the cob because they like it and not eating asparagus because they don't like it. But to believe that "vegetarianism = good" "meat eating = bad" - I think you're working under misinformation.
I don't want the vegetarians in this forum to think that I'm knocking them either. Really, I think if you are a vegetarian - it's commendable. I really believe that. But, to point out all the ills of meat-eating while ignoring all the bad stuff regarding a vegetarian diet is not "truthful". And, like I stated earlier, a lot of our problems comes from thinking with our paycheck or career rather than what is "right" or "good" to do.
Isnt it pathetic that we are having a debate over vegetarianism and killing insects when as stated above, there are people in this world who have no food to debate over.
Comments
River...I apologize if I offended you...that certainly was not my intention. Blue Springs seems to be very different than Lee's Summit, where you are. We lived in Lee's Summit for a while and liked it, but don't really care for Blue Springs. Blue Springs does not offer Recycling...that's what we were told anyways! It's just really different here in Missouri than it was in Arizona..Again, sorry if I offended you....I truly apologize.
Hmmmm...hadn't thought about that. Thanks for the tip!
I also like MoonLgt load up about once a week and take my recycling to the local recycling center. I also take some for my friends and family. I have even bought some of them containers that they can just throw their recycling in and I will sort it for them getting them to recycle when they otherwise wouldnt.
Would you mind telling me what Recycling Center you go to? I would like to start doing the same. Thanks!
Recycling & Compost
2101 SE Hamblin Road
969-7516
This might be of some help http://www.bluespringsgov.com/frames/frame_recycle.htm
And I'll tell you after I brush my TOOTH.
There you go making us all laugh again , Comic. :buck: I like the hillbilly face.
I just put myother tooth back in to eat. :buck:
Real nice, Bucky.
my mother always says "you are what you eat". she is a vegetarian and took away any prejudices a long time ago.
i've looked at the documentary of the "baskin robins" son and found it fascinating. something seems to be wrong [with our society] if the food pyramid is promoted by the dairy industry... i also saw the PETA movie, where the tyson employees just rip off the chickens' heads. that really robbed me off the illusion that i am eating something that has been involved in some cruel and brutal practices.
through my doctor, who takes a holistic (and ayurvedic) approach, i have learned that your diet can make a huge difference in your well being. i have suffered from back pain for years and she told me to reduce my dairy intake, as well as cutting out red meat, bananas, grapes, wheat and peanuts, since all of those groceries produce fluids, and this is a great way to keep my back pain under control. much better than taking pain killers!
thank you all for this!
Excellent!
There are two books you can try to borrow from the library by John Robbins (son of baskin robins)
1. Diet for a New America (There is a video version, which you have already watched at PetaTV)
2. Food Revolution
Much of his material can be found at http://www.foodrevolution.org
cheers,
thank you very much!
That Site you gave was Really Cool. Thanks
My pleasure.
His life story in really interesting. Just like Price Siddarthda, he gave up a life of luxury for the betterment of all beings.
I am still trying hard to be a vegetarian. The "Diet for a New American" documentary impacted me. Really no meat, only vegetables, during the last two years of the Chinese New year (15 days each). Most of my other friends were feasting with scrumptious chinese delicacies.
cheers,
I've came across a spectacular docmentary from Vegetarian Society in Britain. Narrated by Paul McCartney I believed. It was an exellent piece of clips. I could not recall the title for now. Will let you know once I find out more.
cheers,
http://www.viva.org.uk/campaigns/fish/index.html
You can download some movie clips. There is one in the US at http://www.vivausa.org
I could not locate the title of the documentary, produced by viva, which describe about fishing. Will try again.
cheers,
We must always consider these things when the subject of taking life is a concern.
hmm...
Yes, you are right about indirectly responsible for taking lives, pertaining to gems, cells, micro insects etc .... In fact moments by moments, cells in various parts of our body die with new replacement. Every time when we tidy up our room, clearing dust, we are killing lives too. This is not a perfect world, and nothing is perfect.
The reason why veg is preferred because plants have significant much lesser emotion of pain and agony, compared to animals.
I suggest to see at a bigger picture and examine the damages done to the entire ecosystem by eating meat.
cheers,
Eating for Peace
A talk by the Buddhist teacher Thich Naht Hanh on Mindful Consumption
All things need food to be alive and to grow, including our love or our hate. Love is a living thing, hate is a living thing. If you do not nourish your love, it will die. If you cut the source of nutriment for your violence, your violence will also die. That is why the path shown by the Buddha is the path of mindful consumption.
The Buddha told the following story. There was a couple who wanted to cross the desert to go to another country in order to seek freedom. They brought with them their little boy and a quantity of food and water. But they did not calculate well, and that is why halfway through the desert they ran out of food, and they knew that they were going to die. So after a lot of anguish, they decided to eat the little boy so that they could survive and go to the other country, and that's what they did. And every time they ate a piece of flesh from their son, they cried.
The Buddha asked his monks, "My dear friends: Do you think that the couple enjoyed eating the flesh of their son?" The Buddha said, "It is impossible to enjoy eating the flesh of our son. If you do not eat mindfully, you are eating the flesh of your son and daughter, you are eating the flesh of your parent."
If we look deeply, we will see that eating can be extremely violent. UNESCO tells us that every day, forty thousand children in the world die because of a lack of nutrition, of food. Every day, forty thousand children. And the amount of grain that we grow in the West is mostly used to feed our cattle. Eighty percent of the corn grown in this country is to feed the cattle to make meat. Ninety-five percent of the oats produced in this country is not for us to eat, but for the animals raised for food. According to this recent report that we received of all the agricultural land in the US, eighty-seven percent is used to raise animals for food. That is forty-five percent of the total land mass in the US.
More than half of all the water consumed in the US whole purpose is to raise animals for food. It takes 2500 gallons of water to produce a pound of meat, but only 25 gallons to produce a pound of wheat. A totally vegetarian diet requires 300 gallons of water per day, while a meat-eating diet requires more than 4000 gallons of water per day.
Raising animals for food causes more water pollution than any other industry in the US because animals raised for food produce one hundred thirty times the excrement of the entire human population. It means 87,000 pounds per second. Much of the waste from factory farms and slaughter houses flows into streams and rivers, contaminating water sources.
Each vegetarian can save one acre of trees per year. More than 260 million acres of US forests have been cleared to grow crops to feed animals raised for meat. And another acre of trees disappears every eight seconds. The tropical rain forests are also being destroyed to create grazing land for cattle.
In the US, animals raised for food are fed more than eighty percent of the corn we grow and more than ninety-five percent of the oats. We are eating our country, we are eating our earth, we are eating our children. And I have learned that more than half the people in this country overeat.
Mindful eating can help maintain compassion within our heart. A person without compassion cannot be happy, cannot relate to other human beings and to other living beings. And eating the flesh of our own son is what is going on in the world, because we do not practice mindful eating.
The Buddha spoke about the second kind of food that we consume every day -- sense impressions -- the kind of food that we take in by the way of the eyes, the ears, the tongue, the body, and the mind. When we read a magazine, we consume. When you watch television, you consume. When you listen to a conversation, you consume. And these items can be highly toxic. There may be a lot of poisons, like craving, like violence, like anger, and despair. We allow ourselves to be intoxicated by what we consume in terms of sense impressions. We allow our children to intoxicate themselves because of these products. That is why it is very important to look deeply into our ill-being, into the nature of our ill-being, in order to recognize the sources of nutriment we have used to bring it into us and into our society.
The Buddha had this to say: "What has come to be - if you know how to look deeply into its nature and identify its source of nutriment, you are already on the path of emancipation." What has come to be is our illness, our ill-being, our suffering, our violence, our despair. And if you practice looking deeply, meditation, you'll be able to identify the sources of nutriments, of food, that has brought it into us.
Therefore the whole nation has to practice looking deeply into the nature of what we consume every day. And consuming mindfully is the only way to protect our nation, ourselves, and our society. We have to learn how to consume mindfully as a family, as a city, as a nation. We have to learn what to produce and what not to produce in order to provide our people with only the items that are nourishing and healing. We have to refrain from producing the kinds of items that bring war and despair into our body, into our consciousness, and into the collective body and consciousness of our nation, our society. And Congress has to practice that. We have elected members of the Congress. We expect them to practice deeply, listening to the suffering of the people, to the real causes of that suffering, and to make the kind of laws that can protect us from self-destruction. And America is great. I have the conviction that you can do it and help the world. You can offer the world wisdom, mindfulness, and compassion.
Nowadays I enjoy places where people do not smoke. There are nonsmoking flights that you can enjoy. Ten years ago they did not exist, nonsmoking flights. And in America on every box of cigarettes there is the message: "Beware: Smoking can be hazardous to your health." That is a bell of mindfulness. That is the practice of mindful consumption. You do not say that you are practicing mindfulness, but you are really practicing mindfulness. Mindfulness of smoking is what allowed you to see that smoking is not healthy.
In America, people are very aware of the food they eat. They want every package of food to be labeled so that they can know what is in it. They don't want to eat the kind of food that will bring toxins and poisons into their bodies. This is the practice of mindful eating.
But we can go further. We can do better, as parents, as teachers, as artists and as politicians. If you are a teacher, you can contribute a lot in awakening people of the need for mindful consumption, because that is the way to real emancipation. If you are a journalist, you have the means to educate people, to wake people up to the nature of our situation. Every one of us can transform himself or herself into a bodhisattva doing the work of awakening. Because only awakening can help us to stop the course we are taking, the course of destruction. Then we will know in which direction we should go to make the earth a safe place for us, for our children, and for their children.
While this reply makes being a vegetarian sound clean and wholesome, there really is nothing clean and wholesome about being a vegetarian (in regards to killing of animals, water usage, clear of land, etc.) unless you grow and raise your own vegetables.
Millions of animals are murdered each year in the harvesting of crops (mice, rabbits, snakes, gophers, skunks, possums, rats, squirrels, etc.)
These are free-roaming animals. Not animals that have been bred specifically for food. They are animals living in the wild that are being killed by huge combines harvesting these crops.
Hundreds? Thousands? Some number of animals are killed each year by farmers, who even though they raise crops and not animals, hire people to come in and "control" the varmit that eat the crops they are selling as a "business". Animals like deer, elk, antelope.
Unless you are buying eggs grown by yourself or that are "free-range" chickens you're eating the bi-product of animals that are kept in cages, usually hardly big enough for the chicken itself, for their entire life. Many, many of these chickens are reduced to standing their entire life in a cage so that their feet deform, become mangled and actually grow into the cage - because the chicken has to stand its entire life. And many, many vegetarians have no problems with eating eggs raised in this type of Auschwitz type of environment.
The crops raised for "animal" consumption is low grade grain. Not the grain that has been genetically altered for use by big corporations in the making of their product. Much of this grain might not even be of use for human consumption. Remember, many places that use this grain for feeding cattle also incorporate the use of steroidal additives to help the cattle grow.
Water? There has been about the same amount of water on this planet since the beginning of time. I don't think it disappears over time - that's how this planet works. Many states in the US have averages of household water usage. Many households in the US use well over 100,000 gallons of water each year. Some states like California are close to 200,000 per year. That's "households" - that doesn't include what is used in states like California in the use of growing crops - since they have an extended growing season the rest of the States takes for granted.
My point isn't to refute what kinlee says. I just think that a rebuttal should be stated so that people don't fall under the wrong impression that by becoming vegetarian - everything will be okay.
Just as important as food, in regards to being "mindful" should also include what you do with fossil fuel, plastic wrappings from your foods, over fertilization of yards that allow leakages into streams and aquaducts, batteries, aluminum cans, the amount of garbage we either throw into landfills or the ocean, driving leaky/faulty vehicles, etc.
And to be realistic - we elect people into our government to - generally do what is right. These people aren't Buddhists. The are people engaging in an 8 hour a day job - if that. The are people who are working in a career. If anyone is under the thought process that our government is filled with people who "practice deeply, listening to the suffering of the people, to the real causes of that suffering" - I'm afraid to say that I honestly think we've all got another think coming.
Government is business. That's why big business flourishes like it does. That's why there are kickbacks, pay-offs, lobbyists, etc. Until big business is no longer lucritive and "taking care of our Earth" pays good, includes great health benefits, huge bonuses and such - we're going to have to rely on each other to do what is right or mindful.
There are many ways to be mindful. I think a lot of propaganda that is out makes eating meat cruel and unjust and being a vegetarian - sound saintly.
Just food (no pun intended) for thought.
-bf
P.S. For those of you that think I'm ripping on kinlee - I'm not. kinlee makes some great suggestions that I should and will take into consideration. Thanks for the post, kinlee.
-bf
Whilst I remain unconvinced by the existence of such equivalence, I am prepared to accept that it is an argument that can comfort meat-eaters and, as such, has value.
Nevertheless, those who eat meat have other questions to address which cannot be shrugged off by this argument. Among others these three worry me:
* Intensive or 'factory' farming of animals and poultry, resulting in deformities, over-use of antibiotics and growth hormones, de-beaking of chickens, veal crates, among other cruelties.
* Ecological damage caused by the immense volume of fodder required which results not only in wholesale destruction of rainforests and in grain shortages in the areas of drought and starvation.
* The 'epidemic' of obesity among Westerners which is an increasing danger to the obese individuals themseves and to society at large, diverting already tight health-care budgets to an avoidable condition.
I think intention plays a big role in morality.
Just so you know, I'm a meat eater - so if you have any stones lying around to throw, you might want to get them out.
(soap box, please! thank you.)
Meat-eaters should know the things that are involved with the food they intake. You forgot to mention things like chicken being scalded alive during "harvest". Of cows actually being skinned before they are clinically dead. Probably many more things that we don't even know about - that are disgusting and cruel.
But!,
I don't think even saying "I don't eat vegetables with the intent of killing sentient beings" is an argument. I know my child doesn't eat a hamburger with the intent of killing a sentient being - but a being has still been killed for his Happy Meal. Ignorance is not a justifiable argument.
I also see these posts where people repeat what big organizations have stated in their propaganda. Organization that have members, salaries, bonuses, etc. just like any other business.
I read these posts and feel that vegetarians are deluded by the statement of "vegetarianism". That somehow, by all of us becoming vegetarians, all the world's ills will magically disappear. All of this grain raised for animals will now feed everyone in the world. The world will become this Utopian environment.
It ain't gonna happen.
Big business is big business - whether it deals with crops or cattle. That's why we have piles of grain grown for human consumption rotting in piles on docks - because there is more monetary gain to let it rot and get a government subsidy(sp?) rather than sell it.
People are also the problem with the worlds hunger. We've seen it in Etheopia, Somolia and Mogadeshu. There was tons of grain being sent to Mogadeshu - but the warlords were preventing it from reaching the people. Tons of grain available - hundreds of people dying every day from hunger. You could also say the same thing about pharmicutical companies not providing these countries with all the medicine they need to eradicate various sicknesses. It's not profitable to do this.
So, are you saying that it's really karmically better or easier to kill an animal raised by nature, because you're a vegetarian, rather than one bred for food? To me, that's like saying, "I only killed 20 small people. I'm not like that slime that killed 50 big people!" Killing is killing. Monks in various forest temples sweep the path they walk on so as to remove insects that they might otherwise tread on.
Plus, eating vegetables has it's own problems. All the insects and animals that are killed - and if they aren't killed they become more resiliant to the pesticides than nature intended them to. What about all the problems with DDC or DDT (whatever that pesticide was called that only after decades of use) was found to be a major carcinogen that killed, who knows, how many people? The pesticides that are sprayed on the food, that becomes systemic to the crop being grown that we feed to our children. I've read that there are chemicals, made especially for broccoli, that when cooked (like in boiling water) changes the chemical compound ~inside~ of the broccoli to the same sort of agents found in rocket fuel. The pesticides, the cheap-underhanded labor big business gets to pick these crops while paying them crap for wages, the waxes on the fruits, the preservatives (because they're picked way before their ripe so they don't spoil while making the transport), the fertilizers, etc.
What about all the vegetarian meals that are processed and packages using various preservatives from these same animals that were slaughtered for steak or roasts? You're still using these bi-products.
And I disagree about Western obesity being blamed on meat eating. There are studies that show that by eating just meat - obesity is not a problem.
The problem is with Westernism itself. The "I want it now" instant gratification we've become so accustomed to.
I believe the world will not become a fairy tale place of peace and happiness by becoming vegetarians. If you are one because that's what you choose to do - that's fine. That's great. It's really no different from someone eating corn on the cob because they like it and not eating asparagus because they don't like it. But to believe that "vegetarianism = good" "meat eating = bad" - I think you're working under misinformation.
I don't want the vegetarians in this forum to think that I'm knocking them either. Really, I think if you are a vegetarian - it's commendable. I really believe that. But, to point out all the ills of meat-eating while ignoring all the bad stuff regarding a vegetarian diet is not "truthful". And, like I stated earlier, a lot of our problems comes from thinking with our paycheck or career rather than what is "right" or "good" to do.
-bf