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To live an aimless life

betaboybetaboy Veteran
edited December 2013 in Buddhism Basics
Isn't that what Buddhism is, in a nutshell?

As long as we have aims (craving, thirst, whatever), we are going to be disappointed. No aims, no dukkha. So we pretty much live an aimless life - nothing wrong with it, but because society has glorified wealth, status, etc., we feel it is important to keep seeking/craving all the time.
JeffreylobsterWisdom23

Comments

  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    Yes, I think so. But it needs some unpacking so that we don't go astray. Thich Nhat Hanh talks about this in his book the Heart of Buddha's teachings. The thing is that we can still have aims even though we are 'trying' not to.
  • maartenmaarten Veteran
    There are skillful desires, such as the desire to free yourself from delusion and be of help to other people. AFAICT the buddha encouraged people in various ways to have skillful aims.
  • HamsakaHamsaka goosewhisperer Polishing the 'just so' Veteran
    When WE apply the 4NT directly to our lives, there is nothing aimless about them. When WE theorize and hypothesize without direct experience, we come to absurd conclusions.

    Gassho :)
    riverflowfederica
  • ThailandTomThailandTom Veteran
    No not to me it is not, that is such an extreme view to hold. I have come to notice over the past few months that we humans tend to jump to extremes a lot, and what did the Buddha teach? The middle way.

    Think of a monk, he wakes up one morning and maybe he has to hold a talk or a funeral service, he will have an aim to please and serve his audience and fellow man, but he should not have any attachment as to what the outcome may be. He could fail horribly or be a success, but he still has a goal and an aim.
    Theswingisyellow
  • lobsterlobster Crusty Veteran
    Bodhisattvas don't have aims?
    When did this happen?
    The Buddha had no aims? You think?

    Looking forward to tomorrow's anti-dharma perspective . . . :screwy:
    poptartbetaboyHamsakaTheswingisyellow
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    betaboy said:

    Isn't that what Buddhism is, in a nutshell?

    Aimless with regards to seeking out sustenance in the 5 skandhas, yes. However, the "dharma aim" is to aim to not aim anymore and to help others not aim anymore either. :) So you could say that Buddhism is "the aim to not aim". :lol:
    lobsterriverflowJeffrey
  • lobsterlobster Crusty Veteran
    I sincerely hope @betaboy is working from @seeker242 perspective . . .
    Anything else would be pointless . . . ;)
    riverflow
  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran
    betaboy said:

    Isn't that what Buddhism is, in a nutshell?

    As long as we have aims (craving, thirst, whatever), we are going to be disappointed. No aims, no dukkha. So we pretty much live an aimless life - nothing wrong with it, but because society has glorified wealth, status, etc., we feel it is important to keep seeking/craving all the time.

    No this is not buddhism in a nutshell @betaboy.

    Buddhism in a nutshell is skilfully helping your self and others cut through the delusion, and realise that you can be a bum, or sit on your bum, one is aimless the other has a great aim!

    mettha
    lobstercvaluefedericajae
  • TheswingisyellowTheswingisyellow Trying to be open to existence Samsara Veteran
    Have aims but just don' t cling to their outcomes. I have a really large aim, to end my suffering. No small endeavor. I have goals to be a good parent, husband, nurse ect, These things benefit me as well as those around me and I find that worthwhile and something to strive for, I just don' t get stuck on the outcomes. Nothing is for sure but I will put my mind and energy into that what is beneficial. Nihilism is not Buddhism.
    anatamanriverflowDennis1
  • TheswingisyellowTheswingisyellow Trying to be open to existence Samsara Veteran
    The idea that desires are wrong is misguided. Clinging to your desires, making up stories about you and your desires is delusional.
    riverflowJeffreyEvenThird
  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran
    Nihilism I have come to understand is something most buddhists encounter on the path - it becomes nothing to be scared of when you confront it head on however...
    EvenThirdTheswingisyellowDennis1
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited December 2013
    End prapancha. End concoction. End aims. End sankarha.

    End endless creation of thought realms. Be here and now.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saṅkhāra

    If aimlessness is here and now for you then just let it be. It can be very blessed. A yogic understanding. You can't pin it down. Just let it be lightly in your awareness. Don't try to figure out unless with a light touch. Return to the breath. Let go and let be.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited December 2013
    If you see the Buddha kill him.
    The ninth-century Buddhist master Lin Chi is supposed to have said, “If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him.” Like much of Zen teaching, this seems too cute by half, but it makes a valuable point: to turn the Buddha into a religious fetish is to miss the essence of what he taught. In considering what Buddhism can offer the world in the twenty-first century, I propose that we take Lin Chi’s admonishment rather seriously. As students of the Buddha, we should dispense with Buddhism.
    http://www.shambhalasun.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=2903Itemid=247
    riverflowTheswingisyellowlobster
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    betaboy said:

    Isn't that what Buddhism is, in a nutshell?

    As long as we have aims (craving, thirst, whatever), we are going to be disappointed. No aims, no dukkha. So we pretty much live an aimless life - nothing wrong with it, but because society has glorified wealth, status, etc., we feel it is important to keep seeking/craving all the time.

    End thirst. You are absolutely right. Just stop. I can't say that emphatically enough. You are on the right track.

    If it doesn't work out then you can just go back to endless migrations again.
  • betaboybetaboy Veteran
    Jeffrey said:

    If you see the Buddha kill him.

    If you see the Buddha, kill him.
    If you don't see the Buddha, kill him.
    lobster
  • betaboybetaboy Veteran
    edited December 2013
    Jeffrey said:

    betaboy said:

    Isn't that what Buddhism is, in a nutshell?

    As long as we have aims (craving, thirst, whatever), we are going to be disappointed. No aims, no dukkha. So we pretty much live an aimless life - nothing wrong with it, but because society has glorified wealth, status, etc., we feel it is important to keep seeking/craving all the time.

    End thirst. You are absolutely right. Just stop. I can't say that emphatically enough. You are on the right track.

    If it doesn't work out then you can just go back to endless migrations again.
    Yes, but society has conditioned us to believe that our 'worth' is determined by how much we crave - a guy who craves is often called 'driven', 'passionate' etc. - all positive words to describe him. A guy who doesn't crave is called worthless, lazy, weird, etc - all negative words. So people actually start to believe that there is something seriously wrong with non-craving even if it gives them peace.

    That's why Buddhism itself has been generally perceived as negative, defeatist, and so on. It is not because Buddhism is any of those things - just that people worship the things of the world so much so that anything that goes contrary is anathema to them.
    Jeffrey
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    You don't have to live for anyone else's opinion of you. Just do your thing and be happy. If you are happy others will like that because it is natural. You will gravitate towards the right people, for you. One can always hope, at least.
    riverflowbetaboylobster
  • riverflowriverflow Veteran
    betaboy said:


    Yes, but society has conditioned us to believe that our 'worth' is determined by how much we crave - a guy who craves is often called 'driven', 'passionate' etc. - all positive words to describe him. A guy who doesn't crave is called worthless, lazy, weird, etc - all negative words. So people actually start to believe that there is something seriously wrong with non-craving even if it gives them peace.

    "...But, wherever a man goes, men will pursue and paw him with their dirty institutions, and, if they can, constrain him to belong to their desperate and odd-fellow society. It is true, I might have resisted forcibly with more or less effect, might have run “amok” against society; but I preferred that society should run “amok” against me, it being the desperate party." ~ Henry David Thoreau, Walden
    Jeffreypersonlobster
  • BhikkhuJayasaraBhikkhuJayasara Bhikkhu Veteran
    edited December 2013
    image

    desire is bad Mmkay..You shouldn't have desires because theres a lot of Dukkha in that MMkay.

    of course saying a "desire is bad" is making a judgment when we really just want to observe the desire for what it is, and watch is arise and pass.

    desire stemming from thoughts of renunciation are good though. These are the desires that lead us to want to practice dhamma.
    ThailandTomJeffreyEvenThirdTheswingisyellow
  • lobsterlobster Crusty Veteran
    If you see the Buddha, kill him.
    If you don't see the Buddha, kill him.
    "To make a rabbit pie, first catch your rabbit"

    To 'kill' your inner Buddha/brother/bother, first find the right road . . . and make sure it has Buddhas on it . . . and you know how to recognize them . . .

    :nyah:
    Jeffrey
  • Dennis1Dennis1 Veteran
    betaboy said:

    Isn't that what Buddhism is, in a nutshell?

    As long as we have aims (craving, thirst, whatever), we are going to be disappointed. No
    aims, no dukkha. So we pretty much live an aimless life - nothing wrong with it, but because society has glorified wealth, status, etc., we feel it is important to keep seeking/craving all the time.

    Not Mahayana: Bodhichitta is not aimless. It simply doesn't aim for or from self.
    mtgby

  • Dennis1Dennis1 Veteran
    Jeffrey said:

    If you see the Buddha kill him.

    The ninth-century Buddhist master Lin Chi is supposed to have said, “If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him.” Like much of Zen teaching, this seems too cute by half, but it makes a valuable point: to turn the Buddha into a religious fetish is to miss the essence of what he taught. In considering what Buddhism can offer the world in the twenty-first century, I propose that we take Lin Chi’s admonishment rather seriously. As students of the Buddha, we should dispense with Buddhism.
    http://www.shambhalasun.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=2903Itemid=247

    Just so Jeffrey: here is a poem with that idea. By the way Lin Chi was a Chan master
    and can be found in 'The Blue Cliff Record'. Best, Dennis


    Waka


    I looked upon the water and the bread
    To Mara and her awe-full frown.
    I took the cream from soft Sugata's head
    And call upon Sthvara in her golden crown.


    The earth is witness to me here
    My offering of each life's caprice
    As though a diadem of love appear
    And spread the joy of life's increase.


    The Teacher's art is thus undone
    Where none but Agni dare embrace.
    Bedazzled by the enlightened one
    Where go the pristine one of face?


    dlc 1995




    Jeffrey
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