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Anapanasati sutta - how to focus on natural breathing?
misecmisc1
I am a HinduIndia Veteran
hi all,
Anapanasati sutta says to watch the breath, as it normally happens, but not to manipulate the breath.
my problem is - whenever i sit and try to watch my breath, almost all the time, what happens is my observing of my breath manipulates the breath, even if i do not wish to change my breath in most of the occasions.
so what to do - how to observe natural breathing, without changing it? please suggest. thanks in advance.
Anapanasati sutta says to watch the breath, as it normally happens, but not to manipulate the breath.
my problem is - whenever i sit and try to watch my breath, almost all the time, what happens is my observing of my breath manipulates the breath, even if i do not wish to change my breath in most of the occasions.
so what to do - how to observe natural breathing, without changing it? please suggest. thanks in advance.
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I find myself going between this regular, deliberate breathing pattern and letting go of it over and over. I'll realize I'm breathing in a pattern, and then let go of the pattern. It's kind of subtle and hard to explain :-/ but I go back and forth. I don't get too worried about it, it's not like you can do it 'wrong' and screw up your whole life and meditation practice forever lol!
Gassho
moreover, my understanding says - as per anapanasati sutta, controlled breathing is not to be done, rather natural breathing needs to be done and this natural breathing has just to be observed.
your body is a corpse in a charnel ground. very still and just there. just a frame that's there.
run into the tsunami. accept every wave and with each full long breath (inhale and exhale) practice melting into the space of your winds.
forget what your body looks like and draw your attention gradually to your air passages.. love the process itself
You might want to read this: http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.sg/2008/09/no-self-nature-of-people-and-things.html
I just typed out and updated it to the latest version from the book
I once presented this to my practice instructor and I'll give you the advice he have me:
It's just another thought.
It's not so much observation but resting. You want to rest with your breath. That takes practice. This resting state will not happen over-night. It takes time.... a lot of time .... to cultivate that. Years. Settle down, sit down and learn to rest. Chasing ideas like "duality" are only adding pointless layers conceptualization that are not meditation, nor can it help your meditation.
These days the "natural breath" comes when it wants, and goes when wants. When it comes i observe it, when it goes i observe it.
I learned the hard way not to put so much effort and emphasis and fear on following the breath.. It actually wasnt until i told my breath to "F off" and started not worrying about it that my practice took off.
Now i can put effort in developing concentration on breath and be peaceful and positive about it, took a few years though. I think the key is to be able to put effort into practice without personalizing the effort and being attached to a desired outcome.
i started anapanasati sutta - but since my breathing pattern is quite irregular, so i moved to zazen or just sitting method - but then now i have come back to anapanasati sutta, because i think the important thing is that the mind should be with breath till the breath becomes unnoticeable, to have the mind become one-pointed at breath - but this does not seem to happen in coming 100 lifetimes even, the way things are going currently, so i have left this dream that it will ever happen (me sounding like quite a frustrated and depressed person here) - but still i sit daily to meditate trying to observe my natural breathing as it happens - i do not try to conceptualize things, neither i try the counting method, nor i focus on the tip of my nose, rather i try to just know the feeling when breath comes in and goes out - i am not trying to find the complete pathway of the breath flowing in my body, rather i just try to have that knowing that breath comes in my body and goes out of my body. But the problem is the moment i know a breath is coming in my body, something changes the breath and it remains no longer natural. but if i try to focus on something else like not bothered about breath and do zazen, then the breathing happens naturally, but my mind gets lost easily in a few seconds in the thoughts which arise and after few minutes i realize i have been caught in my thoughts and thinking about my thoughts - leading to wasting of my time and eventually the alarm clock rings to end my sitting duration.
any advice on what can be done to improve the situation - in a way, what to do - how to observe natural breathing, without changing it? please suggest. thanks in advance.
other states uproot yourself from the present breath of letting go. It's sounding like the control of your breathing is dismaying for you. What happens if you just stop doing anything? What is this idea that the breath has to be a certain way? Sounds a bit heavy handed the way you are thinking of this one. Still I think the breath should be let be however it is.
For many years I would come across the 'relaxing' alternate nostril breathing in yoga. I always felt anxious, distraught, agitated after doing it.
My bodies breathing pattern was agitated.
It takes many people years to 'understand' relax whilst doing yoga. It may be calming overall but 'relaxing' into painful asana is something we may have to accept takes time . . . and we must be accepting of the gentleness and of the sensations of disquiet.
In a similar way mind agitation manifests when we bring attention to the bodily breath. That is OK. Part of the reason I am very fond of mantrayana is because the breathing benefits are part of the parcel of improvements . . . however . . . back to the breath . . .
I suggest you 'indulge' in conscious breathing, in a sense you are anyway. What you are having a problem with is control. You are controlling the breath when attending to it and that makes it feel harsh and controlled. It is because you are. So control it consciously, gently with acceptance of its 'unnatural' nature and appearance.
The breath is a great teacher.
If you can manage 108 full prostrations before sitting, gently at a controlled pace, your breathing will be quite fast when you sit to meditate but it will be smoother . . .
Hope that is of use :wave:
It sounds easier that it appears.
Why? Because the doer wants control. By relinquishing control, one relinquishes the doer (self). That is part of the mental cultivation.
Be the knower (for now). Don't worry about should or shouldn't this or that. The task is to just observe and do nothing else.
What to observe? Observe the breath. Observe the tendency to control or alter the breath. Observe the thoughts and feelings. Also observe the tendency to get caught up in thoughts. Remind oneself that all these things are not me, not mine. You don't breathe--- the body does. You don't think ---- the mind does.
The solution ? just note your breath even though you are controlling it. If you persevere, the problem will go away and you will be able to note your natural breath. Good luck.
frankly speaking, i have read many commentaries on different meditations. i have tried both anapanasati and zazen, but somehow i am so confused (you can say this) or so idiot to not even start doing any of these meditations properly - then the other things come up like there is nothing to do in meditation, except observation without judgement - meditation is letting go - theoretically, i understand these things, but practical ground reality, there is no calm in my meditation. i am not able to learn anything from my meditation - monks say that you understand how cause-effect works by carefully observing how the breath and different bodily sensations work out - you can observe the pleasantness in the breath - i am not able to observe any of these things.
what happens when i sit in morning after tea is this - after somehow i settle myself in sitting posture (it is just normal cross-leg sitting, not half-lotus and not full-lotus) and try to have some erectness in the spine and let myself settle in, then relax, then after few seconds i know i am breathing, then after 2 seconds or in even less time, thoughts arise, then i found my head has slightly dropped, then again i have to realign my sitting posture, then again some thoughts come up, i get entangled in it, other times there is slight discomfort due to maintaining the erectness of my spine, so most of the time either i am trying to sit properly or getting caught in thoughts and very less time i am observing my breath as it is happening - the worse thing which happens is when i observe my breath, somehow my breath changes and i feel like it has changed from natural breathing to controlled breathing.
so seems like either i am not made to meditate - or - due to my past karma or my current karma (because of my defilements) i shall not be able to meditate - or - i am doing something terribly wrong in my meditation.
so i will change my question to this question: what is the proper way to start doing anapanasati meditation? please suggest. thanks in advance.
So just don't bother.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai/lee/themes.html
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.118.than.html
Firstly, there is nothing wrong with altering the breath during anapanasati, and in fact it is extremely helpful to alter it explicitly in attempt to find a comfortable rhythm. In fact, the fourth line of the sutta's first tetrad is In MN 44, the Buddha explicitly states that the breath is the primary form of bodily fabrication: Thus, the idea that you should watch the breath without altering it comes from somewhere else, not the anapanasati sutta. If you're interested in possible ways to change the breath, this essay provides some useful perspective. Secondly, if your mind is wandering, don't be afraid of binding it very tightly to attention on the breath. It is usually just a waste of time to try to loosen that attention up before the mind develops the habit of stable attention on the breath.
Finally, find a posture where you're comfortable. Dealing with discomfort is an important part of the practice as you progress, but it's a hindrance when you're just beginning to learn to settle down with the breath.
Breathe in
Breathe out
Breathe in
Breathe out
Was I aware of the breathing in the context of a meditative experience or was I watching the breathing hoping it would reveal myself to me?
?
Why does a question mark look like the pierced ear of a Buddha?
~'facebook guy's' post
it is much easier to give up.
@lobster
in other words, as per anapanasati sutta, just the observation of natural breathing is done and the breath is allowed to be made calm on its own (no matter how many years or decades it may take) - or - changing the natural breathing, in a way, controlled breathing can be done to make the body and the breath more at ease? But if we go by second approach of changing breath, this will be a sort of doing something in meditation and this will go against the idea that in meditation nothing is done, rather just sitting is done as done in zazen, as taught by dogen. so as per anapanasati sutta, what should be done?
please suggest. thanks in advance.
The type of meditation Dogen described is second jhana onwards. Prior to and during first jhana, explicit manipulation of the breath and one's perception of it is the best way to get the mind to settle down. You can get to higher jhanas without going through first jhana, but it's generally much more difficult and haphazard. "Directed thought and evaluation" here means "how can I make this go better, e.g., what kind of breath would feel really good right now?" Note that the simile for first jhana involves conscious human manipulation of the enviroment, while the simile for second jhana (and the other two jhanas as well) involves natural phenomena with no conscious manipulation.
Unless you are experiencing first jhana, don't worry about abandoning conscious manipulation of the breath and your perception of it.
well, these days i have been hearing some talks from Thanisaro Bhikku and from his talks, it is clear that he emphasizes on modifying the breath, so that it feels comfortable.
actually, over the last 2 years, when i had been sitting, i was just trying to be aware of the breath in natural breathing as done in zazen i.e. just sitting method and observing whatever is happening - means i do not focus on a particular area of my body, just try to be aware of the bodily sensation, (or i do not know may be just the knowing that breath is coming in and going out - i guess this automatic information is through bodily sensations, so i try to be aware of this knowing that breath is coming in and going out) - today i tried to count the breaths to see if there is some concentration, but what i found was after say 5 to 6 breaths, i started feeling uncomfortable (may be something like headache) while i tried to count in-breath and out-breath - then i stopped counting and just be aware of the breath - this was slightly easy, but the problem is i think some breaths got passed unnoticed. So what will you suggest should i go for counting method or just be with the knowing of the breath coming in and going out?
i sit with my eyes closed and sit on a cushion, so that my knees can be comfortably on the ground - i do not sit in half-lotus and not in full-lotus, rather in a comfortable cross-legged normal sitting position.
regarding posture - when i try to sit erect while maintaining the natural curve of the spine and keep my chest out, then on breathing i can feel the chest expanding on breathing in and chest contracting on breathing out - but this posture (is so uncomfortable that) i can hardly keep it for 2 to 3 continuous breaths and then somehow, the body moves ( i think during this time, some thoughts also come and then i realize that i am entangled in thoughts and then i check my body posture and find that my head has dropped, the chest has come inwards, the erectness of the spine is lost - though i was not sleeping). So should i try to maintain erectness of the spine with its natural curve, and endure the uncomfortness in it - or should i let my body take whatever position it takes to be comfortable? my meditation is no-where as far as concentration is concerned, so you can assume that i have not even started to meditate.
please suggest. thanks in advance.
I can definitely see advantages to being able to meditate without any furniture, and to do so for extremely long periods, particularly if you're going to go in for the extreme renunciation the Buddha practiced. Personally, I'm not there yet, and I regard those skills as largely orthogonal to the issue of getting the mind in a good posture.