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Addiction, addictive behaviour and renunciation
anataman
Who needs a title?Where am I? Veteran
We all suffer from craving and addiction. Some who are addicted to NB for instance end up becoming moderators and probably kick themselves each time they receive 'a big hit' from their online abuse, but at least it can be seen as better than IV drug abuse. I like reading posts from certain individuals as they openly admit that they have suffered from and even regret their addiction and addictive behaviour. Alcohol, smoking, sex, gambling, drugs, eating disorders and social media seem to be common addictive behaviours in modern society and some people make it their business to enjoy and profit by it.
I have a bit of an addictive personality, but through reflection and observation, feel that I am able to deal with these traits in a way that enables me to moderate and dampen my behaviour. I have kicked some very nasty habits in the past and know I don't want to go back there, but how have you identified that you have an addiction and then dealt with it so you can say 'I have renounced it', or are in the process of renouncing it.
Sometimes my cravings or addictions gets the better of me, but I wake up to the fact that say I have 'drunk alcohol almost every night this week', or have 'driven my car a little too fast' because I like the thrill of acceleration and speed, or 'junk food has taken over my diet this month', or 'I watched internet porn - why?'.
Renunciation in buddhism is about letting go of that which binds us as I understand it.
What do you find addictive and binding and if you have found a way to let it go, or renounce it, how did you do it?
I don't want this to be an AA thread btw, as alcohol is a particularly common problem and I mentioned it in a reflective and exemplary way above; but how did you overcome your particular addiction put it in a thoughtful way that might enable you to help others with similar problems who visit this site looking towards buddhism as a way of enabling them to conquor such addictive behaviours?
Mettha
I have a bit of an addictive personality, but through reflection and observation, feel that I am able to deal with these traits in a way that enables me to moderate and dampen my behaviour. I have kicked some very nasty habits in the past and know I don't want to go back there, but how have you identified that you have an addiction and then dealt with it so you can say 'I have renounced it', or are in the process of renouncing it.
Sometimes my cravings or addictions gets the better of me, but I wake up to the fact that say I have 'drunk alcohol almost every night this week', or have 'driven my car a little too fast' because I like the thrill of acceleration and speed, or 'junk food has taken over my diet this month', or 'I watched internet porn - why?'.
Renunciation in buddhism is about letting go of that which binds us as I understand it.
What do you find addictive and binding and if you have found a way to let it go, or renounce it, how did you do it?
I don't want this to be an AA thread btw, as alcohol is a particularly common problem and I mentioned it in a reflective and exemplary way above; but how did you overcome your particular addiction put it in a thoughtful way that might enable you to help others with similar problems who visit this site looking towards buddhism as a way of enabling them to conquor such addictive behaviours?
Mettha
1
Comments
Excuse me....??
This is about as far from the truth as you could possibly ever hope to get!
My inclination is to work with what I can. For example I can be kinder to others and surprisingly I end up being less hard on my own foibles . . .
:wave:
But the next time you step out of line, I'll send you so far into oblivion, you won't find your way back in this lifetime.
damn, that felt good......
(just kidding!
I personally am addicted to toasted corn.... I can eat a pack a day - and even then, that's limiting me.
But I also know, in time, I'll just get literally fed up of them, and quit. It's happened before with other food-stuffs... I guess it's more like a prolonged excessive fad..... But if I was deprived of hem tomorrow, I'd be absolutely fine with it.
I've a sponsee who is very articulate and intelligent, is university educated with a good white collar occupation. He first joined Over-eaters Anonymous. The some years later he joined Sex Addicts Anonymous, and just recently - when his drinking took over - he joined Alcoholics Anonymous.
Different strategies are needed for different types of addiction; for example with booze it's total abstinence, but you can't do that with a food addiction and most people would wish to have a healthy sex life, so other strategies have to be employed; but the root cause of the addiction needs to be tackled; our feelings. If we end up more peaceful on the inside, a lot of these problems just disappear because we haven't got the emotional turmoil - the engine - fuelling them.
For many behaviours, at some point, alarm bells ring, and we say to ourselves thats not good, and whilst we may persist in that behaviour beyond what we see as acceptable, for most of us there is a breaking mechanism, but for some there does not seem to be that alarm bell going off.
I have seen some peoples lives (and those around them) wrecked by their addictive behaviours, but they just can't and don't stop, and even die from it, right up to the point where I have had heroin addicts dying in toilets in a hospital because their co-addicts brought in a street drug drug whilst they were on methadone treatment, because they knew they would be 'needing it'. Post operative cardiac bypass patients smoking in the special huts with antibiotic drips in their arms, wheeled out by there 'friends and family members', to have a cigarette, the day after the surgery. Alcoholics having liver transplants but absconding and then found in the pub down the road (in their op gowns) just as soon as they can walk to 'test out their new organ'.
The mind is a bizarre thing and training it is hard, but overcoming addictive behaviour is a serious and real problem.
Indeed.
We all are addicted to suffering in some form, whether avoiding stress 'sangham style' or changing the addiction to a more weaning off pattern such as methadone or mettadone dharma . . .
Eventually we have to settle down, sit down one might say and find the causes. You can run, you can hide, you can wear a funny hat but change comes from within
as Deepak Chopra said to his accountant . . .
I am Crusty S Lobster and I am a meditation addict. (opening statement from AA - Akāliko Anonymous)
:wave:
Understanding I can step back from my thoughts/negative thoughts/suffering (meditation enabled me to do this) giving me time to forgive myself (contemplation of triggers/past live events).
During this time I began to see my positives, gained discipline and gave myself time to see how it 'feels' without the subject of addiction, understanding and being content with that feeling of calm without the endless highs and lows.
Also thinking about how my change could help others (not only my immediate family)
Once I'm confident I will try to apply the same methods to my other 'issues'.
Anyway I'm Jaki and I'm an alcoholic ........ oops sorry wrong forum!
:eek:
Metta
Isn't it odd how the most fundamental rules always consist of three parts?
Greed, Anger and Delusion are the Root causes of Suffering.
Respect Trust and Communication are the three tenets of good relationships.
Wisdom is divided into three.... even the "4NT's" actually consists of three tenets, the fourth being a clarification of point three (if I want to be pedantic, about it......)
Hi Jaki, I'm Jason and I'm addicted to, well virtually everything that enters my consciousness. As @Federica said wisdom seems to come in 3's and most important is the 3 Jewels coming together - Buddha, Dharma, Sangha. Welcome to the Sangha.
You've hit on a couple of important points, and they are contained in the basic Tenets of the 4 Noble Truths. Part of the reason I posted this - it's always worth revisiting them, particularly when you are experiencing relapse into those bad habits.
First you are recognising you are suffering. Thats really important, some people just don't get it at all. But buddhists recognise it as the human condition. If they don't they are really not buddhist.
Secondly you are realising what is causing this suffering, yourselfs craving and addiction to something or other (you say alcohol is a big one). The roots being Greed Anger and Delusion as mentioned by @federica..
Third, you are showing sign's that you may be able to acknowledge that you can end this suffering, and that involves renunciation, but how do we renounce something. I would like to hear those views.
Fourth you are developing the skills necessary to end that suffering by developing and showing yourself compassion; you are also doing it with the desire to benefit others - that's very noble in itself, and it can only propel you forward; unless you develop compassion for the suffering you cause yourself, it can be quite difficult to have compassion for others suffering. You are setting the goal of making a positive change in your approach as to how you can achieve that goal. Respect, Trust and good Communication with the people in the Sangha.
@Jeffery said 'Refraining can be helped in the same way as resting with difficult states in meditation.' That sounds like an excellent and very useful method, and I'll use that in the following way:I would suggest taking 1 day at a time and 1 problem at a time. I would also suggest changing little things at a time, let's take alcohol for instance, OK I accept that it's going to be a significant part of this thread. Resist the urge and don't buy that bottle of wine next time you go to the supermarket, resist the temptation by asking yourself why are you contemplating buying that now, look at that temptation, where is it coming from, can I resist it? If it ends up in the trolly, don't see it as failure, that will only anger and frustrate you, ask yourself whether you can manage to lose it before you get to the checkout counter, what might you replace it with - a Sudoku magazine, or crossword book - much cheaper and intellectually stimulating to your mind bringing focus and concentration, whereas the wine just fogs it up a lot.
Challenge your self constantly. When you are curled up on the sofa watching your favourite soap or whatever, when you would normally go to the fridge and pour yourself a glass that normally ends up with you finishing the whole bottle, it won't be there. Will it really have made you happy or just caused more suffering?. Try and see what made you desire it instead, what were the conditions that brought that desire such that you would have about acted on it. Now that's tomorrows little task, eliminate that cause, and then the desire in the supermarket may lessen a bit more, just keep observing the desire come and let it go. It may never come back again. WARNING: it probably will - that's Mara!
Mettha
Maybe look at the bad habit as a bereavment of an old friend, don't be afraid of it or hate it, just let it be... take the positives out of it (if there are any you can pin down) mine would be an understanding I would have never had otherwise.
To keep that flowing, use the understanding to help others, in turn that will help you... keep busy, find hobbies, use forums and find new friends (finding new friends is paramount for me as my 'old' friends are heavy drinkers and although I miss them I cannot put myself in that situation at this moment in time)
Hope this makes sense/helps with mettha
Regarding the finding new friends aspect of your post. It was one of the ways I shook many of my worst and bad habits. I just slowly stopped going out with them and then when I did I stopped doing what they were doing, I became boring, and slowly but surely they went there way. Even now nearly 20 years on, I occasionally meet up with one or 2 of them and find they are still doing the same old S**t, and many have got lazy, fat and old before their time.
So, in a real sense I didn't have a drinking problem - drinking was my solution to the real problem; what I really had was a sobriety problem; I didn't like the way I felt when I was sober. If I was feeling restless, irritable, discontented, anxious; those negative mental afflictions drove me to drink; it's like Japanese water torture.
When I eventually suffered enough, I'd stop drinking, but those sober feelings always got me back to drinking. So what I had to do was find a method I could use which allowed me to be more comfortable sober, but also show me how to sit with negative feelings without picking up that first drink.
Now, I rarely even think about drinking; we've booze in the house; I'm perfectly happy to go to a party or a pub for a meal - alcohol has ceased to be a problem.
I don't think I ever renounced alcohol though, I just decided one day not to drink and 'white knuckled it', then repeated that the next day. In early sobriety, never drinking ever again just sounded too hard to handle; so 'a day at a time' worked for me; a minute-at-a-time when things got really hard. And as time went on and I applied the method I was shown to my life and got more comfortable - I found I just didn't think about drinking - and the problem was gone as long as I remain 'spiritually fit'. I mean if things ever got really bad and I hit the big red 'f__k it' button, I know where I can get IMMEDIATE and OVERWHELMING relief from it; a nice bottle of whisky! Hopefully that won't happen though; nearly five-years-sober here.
I don't feel responsible for being an alcoholic, but I sure as heck am sure I'm responsible for my treatment of it.
I understand what you are saying regarding the 'sorbriety' issues I abstained two years ago went to AA meetings every night and managed 13 days sober... I was bored shitless.
I must add the people at the meetings were amazing, just didn't work for me as I got anxious about the privacy, being part of a small community has it's negatives.
However this time it feels very different, long may that continue! I have a bottle of wine in the fridge and it doesn't phase me. Maybe I've just grown up a bit (I'm 45 about time) Meditation has certainly put me on the right track.
Its early days, 'one day at a time sweet jesus'... keeps popping up which as well as good advice makes me smile
Good luck on your journey stay strong
And out of the three of my father's siblings (including himself) two died of their alcoholism.
But I know alkies who have no family history of it that they know.
I have just been listening to a great Radio 4 programme The Human Zoo, a psych based programme which dealt with habits and patterns of behavior that lead to relapse. I highly recommend it, and for those in the uk should be accessible soon to listen on the website
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03phrwj
It is worth reading the transcript or listening to it for some insight if you have access to it.
It seems clear from what they said that it is important in the early days to change your environment to one which is conducive to giving up your addiction or habit. And to take 1 thing at a time.
Then I had to speak to another human being about my Step 4 list; I chose my A.A. sponsor. It's good to get a 2nd pair of eyes on this stuff; just in case I tried to blame myself for the war in Afghanistan and the outbreak of bird flu in the Far East.
Then I had to make amends, where I wouldn't cause further harm, to those people/institutions I'd harmed. The amends were very powerful; for example prior to making the amend to my Mum, I thought she was a hard-hearted old witch, but after the amend I thought of her as a lonely woman who had had a tough time with an alcoholic husband and son; she deserved compassion, not my hatred. Prior to the amend, I had not seen or heard from her since she disowned me 10 years previously. It's a very healing method of recovery; simple, but not easy.
But what happens when you go through this process is that you end up with a healthier concept of self. Rather than thinking of myself as a loser who was a bad person, I ended up thinking of myself as someone who just lost his way but had the balls to make some tough amends to people. A spiritual path should be difficult and it should take us out of our comfort zones. If it's not, we're probably doing it wrong.
Most alcoholics seem to have a messy past (for some weird reason eh?); we need to deal with that because it's tough to live in the present when I'm resentful or frightened about bumping into someone I've harmed.
And Steps 10, 11, and 12 are basically a Buddhist practise of living an ethical life, mindfulness, meditation, prayer, and practising compassion for others.
As a side note, doing the 12 Steps takes some balls; I know some real spiritual warriors in A.A., facing someone I've once hated to make an amend is never going to be easy. Neither was stopping running away from bailiffs and facing the consequences of the financial mess I'd created. Fear of financial insecurity/anxiety/resentments/sex/women - these are the things that could drive me back to drinking; and these are the things A.A. made me deal with.
BTW, prior to doing the 12 Steps I read the Power of Now and tried to 'live in the moment' as a way of escaping my messy past. I couldn't do it; I really needed to face my past and not try run away from it into the present moment.
A good book is the 12 Step Buddhist. If you're A.A. aversive, reading that may help you reconcile the two (and they're very similar in many ways).
A side note: I do wonder about the effects of having pot widely and freely available now (I live in Colorado). Just in terms of those folks who *do* have addictive traits, this social easement of marijuana use could result in new challenges. (I voted for legalization, by the way.)
metta
I'm going to a Zen meeting on Thursday and although I have no problem with communication I am anxious about who might be there and the possible awkwardness of it. (That will not stop me though)
Maybe once I feel confident enough I will go back to the AA, it would be nice to go and share my storey in the hope it would reach someone else, the 13 nights I went I wept every single night listening to the members bravery and genuine concern for others. I said thank you a lot but couldn't bring myself to bare my soul, to be honest I really don't think I would have been able to get my words out.
I never got to do any of the steps, hearing your experience I think I should, I get it and think the making amends would be very beneficial for recovery.
I will find those books, thanks again for your advice and encouragement. mettha
http://www.5th-precept.org/index.html
In fact (probably shouldn't say this) meditation gives me the feeling of what I thought pot smoking should be like... relaxed, calm and content.
My thoughts on legalisation are that personally I think alcohol has much more of a negative impact on life. Maybe if society turned to legal pot instead of booze there could be less violence and alcohol related crime? Yes I agree it will bring its own challenges. What are your thoughts?
They are currently testing this as an alternative for antidepressants but I don't think the high that comes along with it will be liked by regular depressed people.
The usual Buddhist line that gets tossed around out there is that all desire is bad and causes suffering. Therefore, we must cut it off, renounce it, transcend it etc. Well, I can assure you that I have miserably failed in every attempt I've made at following this kind of injunction.
But I believe that this "desire causes suffering" sentiment actually misrepresents Buddhist teaching. The question of utmost importance is: what causes desire? I'm no sutra worm but I believe it is taught that desire, in its own right, is caused by ignorance. It is *ignorance* about self and the world, not desire, that is really the root of the problem.
That actually matches my experience. When I'm in the grip of desire and try to meditate with it, gain insight into its nature, then the grip often loosens. And only then. Working with the questions of "what is actually desired? and "who is desiring it?" creates a kind of an opening. A third option appears, in addition to the obvious and self-defeating options of suppressing desire and indulging it. Something real, something alive opens up when I am able to step back from the mind torn by the desire and observe it.
It's difficult and there are setbacks. If not for my teacher's support, I'd probably have given up already. But this is the only way I have found to make my addictive tendencies less bothersome without getting involved with psychotherapy or psychiatry (which, I suspect, in some cases is the only viable method).
Another difference is it can't paralyze you. Anyway I have been using this stuff for years now on and off and it's been a life saver. Whenever I have been down it took me up without any repercussions. I'm not quite sure if there are many other addictions like this that are able to have this little impact on health but if there is let me know.
There is also no pressure to share. You're welcome to turn up, just drink the coffee, and listen. In fact the Old Timers used to say "Take the cotton wool out of your ears and put it in your mouth" to newcomers. That's since been upgraded to "Take the cotton wool out of your prozac bottle and put it in your mouth!" (Modern medicine eh?).
No doubt when you turned up everyone told their drinking stories in the hope that you identify as being 'one of us', but really, a good meeting should be upbeat, have plenty of laughter (we are not a glum lot and that's in our literature); I love A.A. humour; and the group should focus on the solution, not the problem. It's good to go to a bunch of different meetings; like Buddhism, A.A. has different 'sects', only ours aren't that well defined. Visiting a bunch of different meetings will allow you to find a group that suits you psychologically, and you could make that your homegroup, where you turn up every-week and do some service there, like make the coffee, or literature, etc. It'll make you feel like a member of A.A., rather than a visitor. Members get and stay sober, visitors don't tend to.
As for 'baring our soul', we get honest at Step 5 with our sponsors, whom we should've built up a trusting relationship with prior to the event by regular meetings while going through the earlier parts of the program.
Anyway, apologies to the OP. He/She said they didn't want this turning into an A.A. post, but I can't help meself.
I promise not to post any further on this topic. If you ever want to chat by PM, drop me a message.
Good luck with your recovery.
It's pretty much frowned upon to mention specific religions or stuff like Jesus or the Buddha; though some folk will; but it's tolerated rather than encouraged.
Here is our Preamble which is read out at the start of every meeting; it says as much: My bold
Compassion arises out of suffering (what the writer was saying), and how compassion manifests in the presence of suffering is where it gets wonky. The intention leading forth the compassion goes sideways. The suffering of sobriety (well put @Tosh!!) is greeted by compassion, which when wonkified by wrong intention, grabs the vodka bottle to ease the suffering.
I could drink a half gallon of vodka over the course of a day and never get 'drunk'. Sure, I fell down a lot but there was no relief. I went through withdrawals on this very couch over a year ago, where things crawled in the corners of my vision, I vomited every few hours and clammy chills alternated with sweating and chest pain because my heart was beating so fast and hard. What went through my head can't be put into words. I don't write this to glorify it, but to never forget what happens to me when I ease my suffering with alcohol. @Jeffrey, yeah, I am as sure as a nonscientist can be about the genetic aspect, all my dad's siblings including him either are or were severe addicts, three have died of their addictions. I am five feet tall, pretty chunky but STILL the amount of alcohol I could drink would have snuffed the respiratory center in the brainstem of someone who doesn't 'have' whatever capacity I have to tolerate and metabolize alcohol. Nuff said on that.
I got addicted to ducks and geese, had to get real about that; addicted to spinning yarn, addicted to arts and crafts, spent years over eating, smoked a lot of weed years ago, enjoyed the lovely pleasure of pain pills when I had some. I tend to respond in an addictive way to . . . well, what haven't I . . . hmmm.
Back to my point . . . about how compassion fits into desire, craving and suffering. Up until, oh about a MONTH AGO I detested myself for having been such a drunk ass pathetic lush. It recently occurred to me (duh) that I drank, overate/used/smoked in an unskillful effort to stop fucking SUFFERING. The self hatred flew away in a cloud of atomic particles and complete acceptance and a much more skillful compassion took its place
I just wanted the suffering to stop. And, I found a way that blew up in my face and would have killed me or someone else eventually. Having been a dilettante "Buddhist" (as long as I didn't have to actually DO something) for twenty something years, there are no words for my revelation that I could indeed end my suffering -- in the very least, greatly decrease it -- myself! For free!
I've been looking for what I'm uncovering in meditation my whole damn life. I didn't even believe there was a solution of any sort. I have experienced a bit of the solution for myself, thanks to willingness to sit with myself and wonder what in the hell I was doing it for for a few months
Gassho
Buddhism will save your life. Enough said.
I would probably have eaten a gun by now if I had not encountered the Dhamma.
I love the phrase "the Buddha is still teaching" one can readily see what an impact he continues to have, even 2600 years later. It's a tremendous statement of what we can do with our lives and how our lives can deeply affect others.
To @Hamsaka powerful post!