6 Month Summary: Where I was roadblocked and what I have learned

fixingjulian

So let's get a snapshot of the first 6 months of 2013:
I was meditating a minimum of an hour a day.
I was reading a lot of Pema Chodron, Sakyong Mihpam, S.N. Goenka, Eckhart Tolle, etc...
I attended 2 Vipassana meditation retreats
I was posting on and reading this forum at least once a week
Even when I wasn't meditating I was always thinking, let's just bring the awareness back... ever vigilant

Now I'll tell you what I thought the benefits were and then I'll tell you what the benefits were.
I thought the benefits were increased insight and my gradual evolution into a higher/stronger human being (and more humble).

What the benefits actually were: the feeling of doing something meaningful, the feeling of being special and strong because I was doing something 'hard', the feeling that I must have great insight with all this hard work, a sense of identification.

The whole thing was exhausting. I'm glad to be rid of it. Let me get to my point.

----------------------------------

A lot of these guys, as well intentioned as they may be, they say awareness, awareness, awareness...
And there is a negativity associated with being 'unaware'. I could quote lines from some of these books, they'd make you cringe if you understood/stand what I'm trying to impart.

Now, do you know what awareness is? How can you be sure?
Because I don't think that I ever thought through this question. And I don't think that they have either.

Also, all this awareness and what is the point of it?

They say, "be aware, we are like crying children. By taming/purifying/observing the mind you can cure this."

Can awareness be brought forth by effort?

--------------------------------
Next 6 months:

I stopped meditating in September or so... I read a series of talks by Krishnamurti which helped me to abandon meditation.

My point is that awareness brought forward by effort is concentration. Effort is exhausting. So meditation of this kind will be exhausting.

Now.. if you're practicing this type of awareness you may experience increased willpower. But that's where the buck probably stops. Then there are probably horrendous side-effects which I've experienced. Things like mind numbing dreams, guilt if you aren't concentrating, then, finally, glorious binges of unawareness.

Is it possible to be aware, even when the mind is not concentrated? By very definition you can't be aware at all!

Good, I think I'm ready to start meditating again

lobster

My point is that awareness brought forward by effort is concentration. Effort is exhausting. So meditation of this kind will be exhausting.

Pretty much.
Not too tight, not too loose.

I must check my notes. Something about right effort, comes to mind. Be interested to hear what advice people offer and what type of 'meditation' you decide on. I would suggest metta bhavna. Feel the Love. Effort? Pooeey.

:wave:

how

Practitioners warning.
Somewhere just before each spoke on the 8FP is an adjective, which if left off that spoke in practice, results in a religiously gilded ego that is far more difficult to ever address than a worldly ego.

fivebells

Just meditating isn't enough. If you're not using the vantage point it offers for comprehending and deconstructing the patterns of suffering in your life, it's like sharpening a knife just so you can carry it around on your belt and tell everyone what a sharp knife you have.

Cinorjer

In my various groups, I've noticed some people cram lots of information and practice into their minds until it's stuffed to the gills like they're starving, and then reach a point where they have to loosen their belts and let it digest. Then they do it again, with a different menu perhaps. Others chew each bite twenty times before swallowing and seem contented to slowly work their way through the entire menu. It's all good.

fixingjulian

lobster said:

Pretty much.
Not too tight, not too loose.

I must check my notes. Something about right effort, comes to mind. Be interested to hear what advice people offer and what type of 'meditation' you decide on. I would suggest metta bhavna. Feel the Love. Effort? Pooeey.

:wave:

Thanks for your reply. May I ask a question? I looked into this meditation, metta bhavna. I don't understand the point of it. I've read some things about the Law of Attraction. It means you think of something and attract it into your life. Money, friends, etc... Have you heard of this?

That is basically this meditation, no? You are trying to attract greater and greater pleasures into you life by thinking about them. So someone of worldly pursuits will try to attract things like money and someone of higher pursuits will try to attract great compassion or harmony?

fixingjulian

how said:

Practitioners warning.
Somewhere just before each spoke on the 8FP is an adjective, which if left off that spoke in practice, results in a religiously gilded ego that is far more difficult to ever address than a worldly ego.

Thanks for your reply. I urge you to reconsider that an adjective on a piece of paper, even if thought about in practice, will protect you from ego.

I'm about to go wrong my neighbor, but I'm going to do it with great nobility.

fixingjulian

Cinorjer said:

In my various groups, I've noticed some people cram lots of information and practice into their minds until it's stuffed to the gills like they're starving, and then reach a point where they have to loosen their belts and let it digest. Then they do it again, with a different menu perhaps. Others chew each bite twenty times before swallowing and seem contented to slowly work their way through the entire menu. It's all good.

Thanks for your reply. This isn't a matter of pace. It's a matter of understanding.

Jeffrey

fixingjulian said:

lobster said:

Pretty much.
Not too tight, not too loose.

I must check my notes. Something about right effort, comes to mind. Be interested to hear what advice people offer and what type of 'meditation' you decide on. I would suggest metta bhavna. Feel the Love. Effort? Pooeey.

:wave:

Thanks for your reply. May I ask a question? I looked into this meditation, metta bhavna. I don't understand the point of it. I've read some things about the Law of Attraction. It means you think of something and attract it into your life. Money, friends, etc... Have you heard of this?

That is basically this meditation, no? You are trying to attract greater and greater pleasures into you life by thinking about them. So someone of worldly pursuits will try to attract things like money and someone of higher pursuits will try to attract great compassion or harmony?

Maybe. But another reason to practice the brahmavirais is to protect from fear.

how

fixingjulian said:

how said:

Practitioners warning.
Somewhere just before each spoke on the 8FP is an adjective, which if left off that spoke in practice, results in a religiously gilded ego that is far more difficult to ever address than a worldly ego.

Thanks for your reply. I urge you to reconsider that an adjective on a piece of paper, even if thought about in practice, will protect you from ego.

I'm about to go wrong my neighbor, but I'm going to do it with great nobility.

@fixingjulian

Put more plainly. Concentration and mindfulness are forces onto themselves that can just as easily aid ego as they can egolessness. That adjective that is as intrinsic to making the 8FP work towards the cessation of suffering's cause, as any of it's individual spokes, is no more paper bound than you allow it to be.

I spoke of it because it seemed from your posting that you might of missed the fundamental importance of it.
And
that the meditation practice out of many possibilities that you chose, was simply the wrong one for you.
Some forms of meditation practice see awareness as simply a mind unhindered by it's own conditioning. That much of the exhaustion suffered within a meditation practice is from the mind involved with un nessesary isometric exercises.

&
This ego that you spoke of needing protection from, is simply a beast of our own creation hanging around for our moment to moment hand outs.
Stop feeding it and no protection is necessary.

Jeffrey

I spoke of it because it seemed from your posting that you might of missed the fundamental importance of it.
And
that the meditation practice out of many possibilities that you chose, was simply the wrong one for you.
Some forms of meditation practice see awareness as simply a mind unhindered by it's own conditioning. That much of the exhaustion suffered within a meditation practice is from the mind involved with un nessesary isometric exercises.

simply a mind unhindered by it's own conditioning.

Are you saying practicing awareness as unhindered mind is a negative thing?

how

Jeffrey said:

I spoke of it because it seemed from your posting that you might of missed the fundamental importance of it.
And
that the meditation practice out of many possibilities that you chose, was simply the wrong one for you.
Some forms of meditation practice see awareness as simply a mind unhindered by it's own conditioning. That much of the exhaustion suffered within a meditation practice is from the mind involved with un nessesary isometric exercises.

simply a mind unhindered by it's own conditioning.

Are you saying practicing awareness as unhindered mind is a negative thing?


@Jeffrey
No quite the opposite. I describe it in this way to point out that the seeds of it's birth lie more with renunciation than with acquisition.

Theswingisyellow

Maybe the question is what is the point? What are you trying to achieve? I meditate to be mindful. When I am mindful the nature of how things present themselves is clear. With this understanding of myself and the nature of my existence, I am in accord with what is happening, not how I wish it to be. I understand my suffering, discontent, unease and pain. Understanding these things in myself I can see them manifest in others. My actions are then appropriate and compassionate. This builds and builds. This continues to fosters clarity of mind and a more loving heart. This affects those around me, which in turns affects me and so it goes. Why do I keep doing it? It works. For me meditation is hardly exhausting, in fact I can say even a bad meditation session is still good. Not too tight not too loose as said earlier. Maybe constantly telling yourself I am doing this or that now, and calling that mindfulness may be exhausting. For me mindfulness is simply noting when things arise, especially feelings and body sensations. If I note my anger towards someone, or them towards me, I am more likely to considerate it for what it is: dukkha, annata and annica, and have a more appropriate response, rather than being reactive, causing more suffering for all involved and compounding and building up my reactivity and wrong view. I can understand that there are so many things that came together to bring this person to a certain point but in the end, as with all compounded things, will fall apart. I can hold their negative emotions and mine lightly and hopefully with compassion, loving-kindness and equanimity.
Metta

lobster

fixingjulian said:

Thanks for your reply. May I ask a question? I looked into this meditation, metta bhavna. I don't understand the point of it. I've read some things about the Law of Attraction. It means you think of something and attract it into your life. Money, friends, etc... Have you heard of this?

Yes.

That is basically this meditation, no? You are trying to attract greater and greater pleasures into you life by thinking about them. So someone of worldly pursuits will try to attract things like money and someone of higher pursuits will try to attract great compassion or harmony?

Basically yes.

It is useful to counteract crippling emotive forces with an enabling or empowering alternative, so that we move in to a more stable base. If we do not, then the negative qualities we have spent a lifetime aligning with will continue to hold us.
Does that feel like something that would be beneficial?


:wave:

lamaramadingdong

Find the beauty in the mundane. It's all there.

fixingjulian

@how

I understand now.

My response was a warning of the dangers of the 'blindly following the instructions attitude' because I think on some level that is what the original post is about... a.k.a bad instructions. And also, too large of a dependence on them.

But you're saying I missed a spot, which, it sounds like you have the right set of instructions based on your elaborations. Or it's also possible that I did miss a spot.

And hey, If I didn't start there I wouldn't have started

anataman

fixingjulian said:

So let's get a snapshot of the first 6 months of 2013:
I was meditating a minimum of an hour a day.
I was reading a lot of Pema Chodron, Sakyong Mihpam, S.N. Goenka, Eckhart Tolle, etc...
I attended 2 Vipassana meditation retreats
I was posting on and reading this forum at least once a week
Even when I wasn't meditating I was always thinking, let's just bring the awareness back... ever vigilant

Now I'll tell you what I thought the benefits were and then I'll tell you what the benefits were.
I thought the benefits were increased insight and my gradual evolution into a higher/stronger human being (and more humble).

What the benefits actually were: the feeling of doing something meaningful, the feeling of being special and strong because I was doing something 'hard', the feeling that I must have great insight with all this hard work, a sense of identification.

The whole thing was exhausting. I'm glad to be rid of it. Let me get to my point.

----------------------------------

A lot of these guys, as well intentioned as they may be, they say awareness, awareness, awareness...
And there is a negativity associated with being 'unaware'. I could quote lines from some of these books, they'd make you cringe if you understood/stand what I'm trying to impart.

Now, do you know what awareness is? How can you be sure?
Because I don't think that I ever thought through this question. And I don't think that they have either.

Also, all this awareness and what is the point of it?

They say, "be aware, we are like crying children. By taming/purifying/observing the mind you can cure this."

Can awareness be brought forth by effort?

--------------------------------
Next 6 months:

I stopped meditating in September or so... I read a series of talks by Krishnamurti which helped me to abandon meditation.

My point is that awareness brought forward by effort is concentration. Effort is exhausting. So meditation of this kind will be exhausting.

Now.. if you're practicing this type of awareness you may experience increased willpower. But that's where the buck probably stops. Then there are probably horrendous side-effects which I've experienced. Things like mind numbing dreams, guilt if you aren't concentrating, then, finally, glorious binges of unawareness.

Is it possible to be aware, even when the mind is not concentrated? By very definition you can't be aware at all!

Good, I think I'm ready to start meditating again

Awareness is always there. You just come and go within it.

Experience what you know as your will, and will what you desire, and desire what you need, and need what you experience, and come full circle to know you have had a piece of Pi.

If you experience everything that you will, need and desire. Then you will be aware of the awareness that experience brings and you will know, need and desire. Then you will not need, desire and experience the space that is free from desire.

Nothing more. Nothing less

That is the point of letting go of the teachings.

You become what you really are, and you can't define it, and no one can teach you about it and best of all you can just be it!

Practice Practice Practice to be what you are already - I see your point. I'll meditate with you.

Mad - who me, or you!